Online petition calling for TM30 to be scrapped gains momentum

[soalbundy]

3 hours ago, gunderhill said:

must  be  nice  under  that  thumb

All a matter of perception. "That which offers no resistance overcomes the hardest substances. That which offers no resistance can enter where there is no space." Lao Tzu. 'Tao Te Ching' 

  

 

[Thingamabob]

This petition is a disaster. It will make things much tougher for all of us. It goes to show how many of you have not a clue as to how things work here. You are well-meaning, but dangerously naive and immature. I would strongly suggest you cancel this exercise immediately. For the record I have lived permanently in Thailand since 1990, worked here from 1980 to 1986, and was a regular visitor from the late 1960s and throughout the 1970s. In all of that time I have never experienced any of the problems referred to in the petition.

[Surasak]

The bigger problem with each immigration office is one enforcing and interpreting rules more strictly than others. Not only at different offices but by each officer in one office. Inconsistency is a major cause of confusion and prevalent in each and every district throughout the country, one office to another. I have never had to submit a TM30 in all my years living here, and I travel about quite considerably, including leaving the country and returning with a reentry permit. Perhaps I have been fortunate? Under these circumstances I find it difficult to appreciate the problems suffered by others. However, having read the comments here, I have decided to add my support to the petition.  

[Just Weird]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

The petition, which has been launched by a group of Isaan based expats,

Perhaps Immigration officers should be concentrating their efforts In the NE, specifically on those boat-rockers who seem to have trouble with this very minor requirement and the other 98% of us will continue to remain untroubled by this.

[NoshowJones]

8 hours ago, daveAustin said:

That was its intended purpose, to sow growing discontent + they're trying to keep tabs on the bad boys remember . I would keep your heads down, chaps. 

I don't think it is anything to do with "bad boys". Out of all the expats from western countries, what percentage of them do you think are really "bad boys"?

Of all the expats I have known personally, I cannot think of any who you could class as "bad boys".

 

Just what kind of person do the Thai government class as "bad boys"?

[BigC]

Should  put a translation  in Thai also as this effects thai businesses  also as they have to report  foreigners and effects  tourism

[Thingamabob]

5 hours ago, gunderhill said:

Typical!

....smart though.

[NoshowJones]

5 hours ago, gunderhill said:

grow  some  balls and tell em whats  what or spend  all your  life hiding inside a  cupboard, imagine the world if  no one ever  stood  up to authority and said something.

Its a plain ridiculous rule.

I will break any laws I do not agree with if I can find a way around them, and no way will I ever put my name to anything that any authority won't like, not my real name anyway.

[alanratch]

I personally think that the Thai government will put this petition strait into the waste paper bin.

 

I think that it would have been better to have posted a form that can be filled in by expats, printed off and sent to the expats embassy here in Thailand.

I am Sure that the Thai government would listen if Ambassadors from different embassy’s start complaining to them because they are getting inundated with lots of personal petitions.

 

Just a thought.

[rexall]

6 hours ago, Lupusthai said:

On May 26th 2019 I applied for the TM30 online-registration using the 'section38'-App.

( I'm the owner of my house, no Thai registered in there )
I attached

- 1 Photo of pages 1/2 blue housebook
- 1 Photo of pages 1/2 of my passport.

I received my user-number and preliminary password 4 1/2 days later by email and had no problems to fill-out and send my TM30.
 

Reading a lot about the problems other expats encounter with registering their tm30, I became curious what would happen when another person registers as living in my house...

I used my "Guest mobile" to register my son as a 'housemaster' of his 'fathers home':

I didn't attach any documents and verified the supplied email address.
On 26th of July 3 hours later I received two emails asking for copies of the blue housebook and my (son's) Id (passport). I attached the corresponding photos using the section38-App again on 30th of July.
I (my son) received the confirmation email on 5th August as follows:
 

 

no problems at all...

I am of divided mind about online/mobile TM30 filing. On the one hand, anyone would welcome making the process more convenient. On the other hand, taking some of the sting away tends to obscure how draconian and onerous is the demand that you report your comings and goings, and report guests visiting your home. Sorry, it is nobody's business where I go or who visits me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know; it's their country, their rules, blah, blah, blah . . . " That doesn't make the practice any better.  Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, if I don't like it I can leave.  However, if you don't like hearing me say it, you can leave as well! BTW, Lupusthai, I am not directing this at you, just ranting . . . 

[metisdead]

Inflammatory posts have been removed. 

 

Off topic posts have been removed. 

[rexall]

4 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

I assume it get adjusted that it is the foreigner who gets to pay the fine.

Having thais to pay the fine for foreigners is not how things getting done here.

And even if it were, Thai owners might become reluctant to rent to foreigners.

[NoshowJones]

5 hours ago, Thailand said:

The TM30 is a big money maker for immigration. Make more sense to petition against 90 day reporting, no real money for immigration and a much bigger pia than the TM30.

Since when did a Thai government and "sense" become compatible? 

[newnative]

3 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

If you are living here and live in another province, surprise, surprise, you MUST report to immigration within 24 hours of your return to your province, otherwise you may be fined, different immigration offices, have different rules, i.e. some enforce it, some don't.

 

To make it more clearer, if you stay outside of your province for more than 24 hours, you MUST report to immigration upon your return, regardless if you stayed in a hotel or not, in other words, the hotel must do the TM30 and so must you upon your return within 24 hours.

 

Have you signed the petition yet ????

 

   My partner and I live in Pattaya but we had, until recently, a Bangkok getaway condo.  We traveled to Bangkok to stay at the condo at least a dozen times between November of last year and June of this year, when we sold it.  We never filed a TM30 on our return to Pattaya for any of the trips.

     I just did my yearly extension at the end of June and my latest 90 day report in July.  No fines for not reporting all those trips when I got back to Pattaya.  And, since I didn't stay in a hotel, how would they have even known I took the trips unless I was wearing some sort of electronic monitoring?  The condo management doesn't file anything--may not have even known I was there.  I fail to see your reasoning of 'regardless if you stayed in a hotel or not'. 

[rexall]

3 hours ago, bender92 said:

If I stay in a hotel , the hotel does the paperwork.

Yes, and if you go from the hotel to visit a friend, the owner of friend's house must report you. When you return home, whomever owns your house has to file a TM30 with Imm or local cops. Often that means you if the Thai owner is unwilling or unable to file.  If you are on an annual extension, depending on which Imm office you report to, you may be fined if there is no TM30 for returning home on file.

[Tongjaw]

6 hours ago, Thailand said:

The TM30 is a big money maker for immigration. Make more sense to petition against 90 day reporting, no real money for immigration and a much bigger pia than the TM30.

What money maker? Doesn’t cost the wife anything when she does it for me. 

[Sonhia]

How about fighting for a ban on visas for Westerners, who for decades have propped up the Thai economy, as proposed for Chinese and Indians. What makes those two race of people so special?!

 

Thai are so racist. 

 

Get out and let them get on with it. Thailand  is not worth it!

[NoshowJones]

4 hours ago, FarFlungFalang said:

Wouldn't it be possible to test this rule in a court of law and see what happens?

A court of law in Thailand giving a verdict which will favour westerners against the Thai government?? 

[NoshowJones]

5 hours ago, soalbundy said:

I'm a bamboo stalk, I bend with the wind. My IO doesn't take the TM30 seriously so neither do I. Yes the complacent among us are freeloaders who benefit from from the coragiouse who protest, who demonstrate, who complain but we don't get shot, blown up or arrested.

"My IO doesn't take the TM30 seriously so neither do I." 

That could very easily change anytime, or even in the same week depending on how an individual IO

interpretates it.

[NoshowJones]

4 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

I signed it in the hope that the TM 30 would get removed from the immigration Act of 1979, just so I didn't have to listen to all these TVF expats winging day in day out ????

 

Joke aside, praise to the expats who don't just sit on their a$$es and wing all day and are being proactive in raising the issue and seeking to put it forward to the government letting them know how it affects us.

 

This in my and others opinions who have the BALLS to sign the petition, regardless if our names are provided seek to get this quashed, no doubt all the paranoid GUTLESS expats who sit on their a$$es will be clapping hands and saying they signed the petition when and if something gets done.

 

This petition can be a Godsend as it could actually open a dialog with the Thai government on how expats feel about other things, like the 90 day reporting which yes, is a pain in the butt, but so is the TM 30, e.g. I would have had to fill it in 3 times this year as I was out of my province for more than 24 hours on each occasion.

 

If they said ok, we will make it for every time you re-enter the country, fine, but then again, they have the re-entry permit that records us returning into the country, but as the immigration officer said to me, when I asked him why I had to report to the cop station in the other province I was returning to and staying for a week when you have my return at the port of entry on your immigration system, he then said with raised eyebrows, we are not interlinked, him shaking his head, I couldn't believe what I just heard, my wife then said to him, are you serious, in his country everything is interlinked, his acknowledge what she said.

 

We all know how we all feel about the TM30 and 90 day reporting, but if we don't get on board, well then things will NEVER change, so sit on your bar stool and continue winging if that suits you, you will never bring about change on anything, but not me, I couldn't have signed quick enough when it first came about, no paranoia here, and if they want to ship me out, I will gladly leave for other shores more welcoming, no skin off of my nose oi !

 

EDIT: Oh by the way, if immigration EVER tried to fine me for not reporting, you will read it in the media, "Farang refuses to pay fine for not doing TM 30 reporting" the more attention this gets, the quicker they will look at it.

You had better get someone ready to start a go fund me, to get you out of jail. 

[NoshowJones]

4 hours ago, mickba said:

When enforcement hotted up a year or so ago (due to terrorist activity?) I went to Jomtien (late) to check if I should have reported and I was fined 1600 Baht.

The next time I went (on time) I was told no need as the rules had been relaxed.
For those on long term (eg Retirement) Visas/Extensions, provided their address is still as last reported (ie as on the slip stapled in your Passport) they do not have to TM30 either for internal or external travel.

So no, this does not affect all of us expats and hasn't for over a year.
In Bangkok and Chiang Mai I gather it's different.

and does what you have said apply to IOs all over the country? I don't think so.

[NoshowJones]

4 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Terrorist activity, huh, by who farangs, you didn't see the 1,600 baht fine coming, that went straight into his pocket, didn't it, relaxed now isn't he ????

I bet you never got a receipt.

[justin case]

if this is success full, I hope they will start with new demands for us long stay tourists with no rights, I would gladly pay 1900 baht support / membership per year to pay the law firm

[khunpa]

3 hours ago, ZAKY said:

I did not see the petition form to sign! 

Im the owner of a condo in bkk, my GF has her own house in bkk, her relatives stay in the  south of thailand, im a member of thailand elite as well, i move a lot during my visits and each of my visits does not last more than a month, so shall i each time i spend in thailand when i move to a different location report to immigration?  Then i will have to report mostly twice or three times in a week. 

Same for me. I also move around a lot and I am for sure not going to waste my time on stupid rules like this. It would be impossible for me not to break the rules, unless I spent most of my life at the immigration office.

 

I am relying on being a Thai Elite member, means I am a “friend” of Thailand as the describe it themselves.

 

Should they however see it differently, I will just pay the fine and move on with my life.

 

Doubt very much any complaints will help. They don’t care shxt about foreigners. Worst case it will just case more problems if someone loses face due to it.

 

Edited August 7, 2019 by khunpa

[NoshowJones]

4 hours ago, Ron jeremy said:

Does anyone actually beleive that the Thai government give a flying f€£k about any falang living there? And abolish this tm-30?

all the bullshit to put up with, tm30, 90 day reporting, 800k, border runs, border refusals, pollution, traffic, worthless currency, etc etc etc.

why? For the life of me I can't understand why people put up with it, and the <deleted>€£¥king wining, bitching moaning complaining. 

Just leave, they don't want you there!

and to be quite honest, it really isn't a nice country to live in. 

 

 

Not now, but it used to be.

[MaxLee]

3 hours ago, Lupusthai said:

yeah, I can! ????

( I always ask Thai people to write it down, when I can't understand their speech...) 

How do you know they aren't lying to you, hehehe

[bastco]

I have not been unduly affected by the TM30 requirements but I would like to offer a suggestion that I believe would be extremely beneficial to all Thailand expats that a petition to the Prime Minister and Head of Immigration requesting uniformity of Immigration Law throughout Thailand Immigration Provincial Offices be strictly enforced and adhered to under threat of penalty to the offending office and a Call Centre number provided specifically to report any office not complying. Maybe worded/composed by an expat lawyer who is already respected by Thai Immigration heirarchy and maybe an expat media station who could request an explanation publicly from Thai Immigration Head Office. I find it hard to believe that the top brass in TI are aware of the "Own rules system" applied by individual Provincial offices

I believe this problem has only got progressively worse and needs to be addressed asap. 

[FarFlungFalang]

5 hours ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Why test it in a court of law? It clearly states who is responsible for the fine in the rule book. End of.

This is precisely my point.It clearly states that the law who is responsible yet foreigners are getting fined.So take it to court and expose the situation.The policeman's job is to keep the peace if they suspect someone has broken the law they detain then and bring them to court.It is the court's job to enforce the law not the police.It also not up to the police to make laws that is the job of the government.If the police have been fining people incorrectly it would be in a court where one would get a ruling.The police may have the right to fine foreigners for breeches of the TM30 regulation,but that is not for me to decide,if you think the police don't have that right or have made a mistake then you take it to court. 

[Lamphen]

7 hours ago, Thailand said:

The TM30 is a big money maker for immigration. Make more sense to petition against 90 day reporting, no real money for immigration and a much bigger pia than the TM30.

I reported TM 30 (staying in my mother in law's house) to Buriram Immigration last month and paid nothing, not much of a money maker, me thinks???

[TSF]

The TM30 and 90 day reports aren't going away, if anything there will be further stringent regulations introduced in the future to deter foreigners from trying to make their homes in Thailand.

 

Does anybody really think for one minute that if we do everything correctly - we have the correct visa, we have the required sums in Thai bank accounts, we have health insurance, we report every 90 days, we do these TM notifications every time we leave our front doors and return home again - then immigration will say...OK the aliens are obeying our rules and doing everything correctly, so that's good, we're happy with the situation now? That won't happen, they sit around in meetings all day every day dreaming up new ways to make life difficult for the aliens. Follow all the current regulations and they'll keep adding more.....until you all have had a guts-full and psssss off back where you belong. 

Edited August 7, 2019 by TSF