1 hour ago, bristolboy said:

Foreign interests already own most of the fishing rights in the UK.

Britain sold our fish quotas for a quick buck, says PETER HILL

https://www.express.co.uk/comment/columnists/peter-hill/937621/britain-fisheries-fish-quotas-north-sea-bristol-channel-blue-passports-brexit

True, but if I'm not incorrect, 80% of British fishing quotas is currently under non-UK control. If we want to sell the 80% that are currently scooped up by others, that's fine with me.

2 minutes ago, Forethat said:

True, but if I'm not incorrect, 80% of British fishing quotas is currently under non-UK control. If we want to sell the 80% that are currently scooped up by others, that's fine with me.

You can't sell what you don't own. 

 

 

8 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You can't sell what you don't own. 

 

 

Common Fisheries Policy is an EU policy. If UK leaves the EU we are no longer bound by the policy and the 80% of the quotas licensed on UK waters are returned to UK. If we want to fish those waters ourselves, we can. If we want to sell the right to fish, we can. We actually own the right to fish our own waters. And if we want to we can sell it. But rest assure, no French, Spanish or Dutch fishing vessel (or any foreign fishing vessel for that matter) can fish British waters without permission or commercial agreement. That means PAYING for the permission rather than being handed the permission by an EU-politician.

 

Please read more about it here:

https://ec.europa.eu/fisheries/cfp_en

 

More questions? No?

1 hour ago, Forethat said:

No change..? Really?

 

Please find attached a link to the current EU legislations. Some of these have been introduced post Brexit vote, none of which were included as a potential future change should UK opt to remain in named referendum. More importantly, the remain-option did not provide details of what changes lies ahead of us. In theory, your description of no change suggests that EU law-making procedures are suspended, and as that is not the case your argument falls rather flat.

 

In summary, the remain vote meant 'future changes that we can neither foresee nor prevent'. Nothing else.

 

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/browse/summaries.html

 

 

What absolute nonsense. Voting remain meant, oddly enough, staying in the EU and complying with the legislation of the EU. At no point did anyone say voting remain means a hiatus.

But you already know this.

As for being unable to prevent EU policies well that just rubbish. The UK had a veto.

41 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

What absolute nonsense. Voting remain meant, oddly enough, staying in the EU and complying with the legislation of the EU. At no point did anyone say voting remain means a hiatus.

But you already know this.

As for being unable to prevent EU policies well that just rubbish. The UK had a veto.

So you're of the opinion that UK should remain in the EU and veto every proposed future legislation to prevent the referendum from being invalid (if remain meant NO CHANGE we certainly shouldn't allow any change, should we?)...?

Leaving the EU seems like a far more grown up option to me, but if lying down on the floor screaming and kicking is your style, have at it.

On 8/7/2019 at 6:25 PM, Jip99 said:

Brilliant!

 

 

1st November, just in time for my pre-Xmas diet.

 

 

Talking of which, will we still get turkeys, or should I panic buy now ?  I have put away 41 lires of milk, 15 kilos of sugar, 17 chickens, 2 hams, half a pig, 48 tins of carrots, similar amount of tinned potatoes and 32 2kg bags of frozen crinkle cut chips.......... and a couple Xmas puddings.........  just in case......... oh! ------ and 2 dozen boxes of candles in case of power cuts.

You forgot the HP sauce.

2 hours ago, Forethat said:

Common Fisheries Policy is an EU policy. If UK leaves the EU we are no longer bound by the policy and the 80% of the quotas licensed on UK waters are returned to UK. If we want to fish those waters ourselves, we can. If we want to sell the right to fish, we can. We actually own the right to fish our own waters. And if we want to we can sell it. But rest assure, no French, Spanish or Dutch fishing vessel (or any foreign fishing vessel for that matter) can fish British waters without permission or commercial agreement. That means PAYING for the permission rather than being handed the permission by an EU-politician.

 

Please read more about it here:

https://ec.europa.eu/fisheries/cfp_en

 

More questions? No?

These foreign companies purchased the quotas directly from the UK government. There are lots of articles about this. Not one has said the rights lapse should Brexit occur.

7 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

These foreign companies purchased the quotas directly from the UK government. There are lots of articles about this. Not one has said the rights lapse should Brexit occur.

Correct. The quotas sold come out of the 20% pot that is under UK control.

 

What is up for debate is the remaining 80%. Post Brexit and UK will control the remaining 80%. If the UK decides to sell the right to fish British waters, go ahead.

 

 

1 hour ago, Forethat said:

So you're of the opinion that UK should remain in the EU and veto every proposed future legislation to prevent the referendum from being invalid (if remain meant NO CHANGE we certainly shouldn't allow any change, should we?)...?

Leaving the EU seems like a far more grown up option to me, but if lying down on the floor screaming and kicking is your style, have at it.

No thats not what I said.

Enough with the baiting.

You know EXACTLY what I meant.

This is the problem with Brexiteers. Reality is an inconvenience so the easiest option is to ignore it. Brexit is not an ideology with you guys its more like a religion.

You forgo proof and evidence because faith and belief is enough for you all. Never mind what reality is. Never mind what the experts say.

You have twee little sound bytes like "bulldog spirit" "It will hurt them more than us" "Brexit means Brexit" "Will of the people" "Respect the result" "We knew what we were voting for" and about 100 others.

The ironic thing is I dont care about your Brexit. It is simply a means to an end for me. Brexit will cause Scotland to go independent. Now that is something I do care about and you guys are doing my job for me.

So you can have your Brexit. The harder the better as far as I'm concerned. 

But in the years to come remember that it was you guys who brought the UK to its knees.

22 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

No thats not what I said.

Enough with the baiting.

You know EXACTLY what I meant.

This is the problem with Brexiteers. Reality is an inconvenience so the easiest option is to ignore it. Brexit is not an ideology with you guys its more like a religion.

You forgo proof and evidence because faith and belief is enough for you all. Never mind what reality is. Never mind what the experts say.

You have twee little sound bytes like "bulldog spirit" "It will hurt them more than us" "Brexit means Brexit" "Will of the people" "Respect the result" "We knew what we were voting for" and about 100 others.

The ironic thing is I dont care about your Brexit. It is simply a means to an end for me. Brexit will cause Scotland to go independent. Now that is something I do care about and you guys are doing my job for me.

So you can have your Brexit. The harder the better as far as I'm concerned. 

But in the years to come remember that it was you guys who brought the UK to its knees.

I wouldn't classify leaving the EU as a religion. It is, rather, the result of democracy. And I think this is where a majority of those in favour of remaining in the EU has a fundamental issue. Personally, I'm rather confident a majority of Brexit-voters don't care if it results in an initial decline in economy or logistical challenges. In addition, I can pretty much guarantee that a majority of Brexit-voters don't give a flying fig if can't find that tiny jar of Bearnaise at Sainsbury's that goes so well with barbecued pork. 

 

Democracy is not that difficult to comprehend once you get the hang of the principal guidelines. It works like this; the majority wins. It defines the will of the people.

Get over it.

1 minute ago, Forethat said:

I wouldn't classify leaving the EU as a religion. It is, rather, the result of democracy. And I think this is where a majority of those in favour of remaining in the EU has a fundamental issue. Personally, I'm rather confident a majority of Brexit-voters don't care if it results in an initial decline in economy. I'm rather confident a majority of Brexit-voters don't give a flying fig if can't find that tiny jar of Bearnaise at Sainsbury's that gos so well with barbecued pork. 

 

Democracy is not that difficult to comprehend once you get the hang of the principal guidelines. It works like this; the majority wins. It defines the will of the people.

Get over it.

You just proved my point. Your post is a litany of "I think".

And where does this majority for Brexit come from? So the people who voted for Brexit believing that we would still be in the customs union have had their vote hijacked by you Brexit fundamentalists? Gove/ Farrage and Johnson were constantly claiming that voting for Brexit did not mean leaving the customs union. It was all going to be part of the negotiations remember? The easiest negotiations in history they claimed.

This is democracy?  

22 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

You just proved my point. Your post is a litany of "I think".

And where does this majority for Brexit come from? So the people who voted for Brexit believing that we would still be in the customs union have had their vote hijacked by you Brexit fundamentalists? Gove/ Farrage and Johnson were constantly claiming that voting for Brexit did not mean leaving the customs union. It was all going to be part of the negotiations remember? The easiest negotiations in history they claimed.

This is democracy?  

If you read my post again I think you'll find it more informative than agitative. My opinion really doesn't matter as the democratic principles rules that powers of the majority are exercised within the framework of the representative democracy. 

 

Yes, it is democracy. That very principle applies even though you don't agree with the result. You can hurl insults as much as you like, but it is still a democratic decision  - trust me. 

3 minutes ago, Forethat said:

If you read my post again I think you'll find it more informative than agitative. My opinion really doesn't matter as the democratic principles rules that powers of the majority are exercised within the framework of the representative democracy. 

 

Yes, it is democracy. That very principle applies even though you don't agree with the result. You can hurl insults as much as you like, but it is still a democratic decision  - trust me. 

Representative democracy means parliament decides. Referendums are advisory only. So far, it seems only brexiteers are trying to undermine the UK‘s parliamentary representative democracy.

5 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Representative democracy means parliament decides. Referendums are advisory only. So far, it seems only brexiteers are trying to undermine the UK‘s parliamentary representative democracy.

Ahhhh that's good one.

 

You seem to be forgetting the speech that Cameron made before the referendum. I can't be bothered to list all of it but here is an important part.

 

"At the end of that debate you, the British people, will decide."

16 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Representative democracy means parliament decides. Referendums are advisory only. So far, it seems only brexiteers are trying to undermine the UK‘s parliamentary representative democracy.

Referendum is advisory until until a parliamentary decision has been made. The parliamentary decision HAS been made. It's a law now. 

Please find attached a link where you can read more about this.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2018/16/contents/enacted

 

We had the referendum. 

The majority voted to leave.

The parliament made the decision to leave.

 

Get over it.

Why are headlines always scare tactics? Nobody will starve. There may be no frogs legs, but that's about it. ????

11 minutes ago, rhodie said:

Why are headlines always scare tactics?

It sells. Simple as that. You ought to see some of the garbage that turns up in my news feed - forget Brexit, Mankind won't last until the end of the week...

18 minutes ago, puchooay said:

Ahhhh that's good one.

 

You seem to be forgetting the speech that Cameron made before the referendum. I can't be bothered to list all of it but here is an important part.

 

"At the end of that debate you, the British people, will decide."

You seem to not understand the parliamentary representative democracy of the UK. It’s governed by a constitution, and that cannot be just circumvented by a Prime Minister. 

16 minutes ago, Forethat said:

Referendum is advisory until until a parliamentary decision has been made.

Wrong. 

 

16 minutes ago, Forethat said:

The parliamentary decision HAS been made. It's a law now. 

And maybe parliament is making a different decision now, or repeals that law. A sovereign parliament can do that. Unless it’s being undermined by an undemocratic Brexiteer government. 

 

Get over it. 

 

2 minutes ago, baboon said:

It sells. Simple as that. You ought to see some of the garbage that turns up in my news feed - forget Brexit, Mankind won't last until the end of the week...

I know mate. They would have us believing that the world will end. Let's just get it over with and rejoin if it's that bad. ????

21 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Wrong. 

 

And maybe parliament is making a different decision now, or repeals that law. A sovereign parliament can do that. Unless it’s being undermined by an undemocratic Brexiteer government. 

 

Get over it. 

 

Yes, there is a process in place to repeal a law. The parliament only needs to kick that off. They haven't.

 

Live with it.

10 minutes ago, Forethat said:

Yes, there is a process in place to repeal a law. The parliament only needs to kick that off. They haven't.

...and that’s only one of the measures parliament can take. Let’s see. 

 

10 minutes ago, Forethat said:

Live with it.

Don’t wanna disappoint you. I really don’t care. It’s just a big amusement. 

Regarding the 'old' document .

And while Mr Gove described the leaked dossier as an "old document", a government source confirmed it was presented at a ministerial planning meeting just three weeks ago.

28 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

...and that’s only one of the measures parliament can take. Let’s see. 

 

Don’t wanna disappoint you. I really don’t care. It’s just a big amusement. 

Well, yes and no - the parliament is somewhat restricted. Here's a possible timeline:

 

3 Sept - House of commons reopens. No confidence vote prepped

12 Sept - No confidence vote. 14 days grace

26 Sept - 2nd vote - Boris Johnson loses

03 October - General election is called for. Parliament is dissolved as a General Election takes place

31 Oct - UK leaves the EU on No deal terms

7 Nov - General Election. Boris wins and we're back to square 1

 

If you can come up with a democratic way of restricting Brexit I'm all ears...

6 hours ago, Forethat said:

True, but if I'm not incorrect, 80% of British fishing quotas is currently under non-UK control. If we want to sell the 80% that are currently scooped up by others, that's fine with me.

What you don't understand about the quota system is this: While Britain is entitled to about 30% (not 20%) of the total fish quota in British waters, fin fish are migratory. So they only spend part of the time in British waters. So if Britain were to take all of the quota in its waters, then it would be cut off from fishing in other countries waters when the fish migrate there. So you would need to have a much larger fishing fleet that would be inactive most of the time.

And the thing about those fish is that the most important market for them is the EU. Fresh fish are worth a lot more than frozen.  So if the British do decide to cut the EU out of their waters, then the EU will act reciprocally. 

Britain has food?

1 hour ago, Forethat said:

If you read my post again I think you'll find it more informative than agitative. My opinion really doesn't matter as the democratic principles rules that powers of the majority are exercised within the framework of the representative democracy. 

 

Yes, it is democracy. That very principle applies even though you don't agree with the result. You can hurl insults as much as you like, but it is still a democratic decision  - trust me. 

You did it again.

"I think". 

You never seem to actually reply to posts you simply give us a sermon on what you believe.

There is no majority for a hard Brexit. There never has been. 

13 minutes ago, Forethat said:

 

If you can come up with a democratic way of restricting Brexit I'm all ears...

That’s parliament’s job. I just sit back and enjoy the shytshow. The same I have done over the past three years. Great entertainment. 

14 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

That’s parliament’s job. I just sit back and enjoy the shytshow. The same I have done over the past three years. Great entertainment. 

Actually, it's not the parliaments job to restrict Brexit. I have no clue how you arrived at that.

The parliaments responsibility is to check the work of government and examining, debating and approving new laws. 

Read more about it here:

https://www.parliament.uk/education/about-your-parliament/parliament-and-government/

 

You might learn something new.

1 hour ago, Forethat said:

Actually, it's not the parliaments job to restrict Brexit. I have no clue how you arrived at that.

The parliaments responsibility is to check the work of government and examining, debating and approving new laws. 

Read more about it here:

https://www.parliament.uk/education/about-your-parliament/parliament-and-government/

Parliament is sovereign. It can do with Brexit what it wants. 

 

1 hour ago, Forethat said:

You might learn something new.

I suggest you get your facts right before you make such a comment.