Britain will face some food shortages in a no-deal Brexit: trade body

[Forethat]

4 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

1. Rubbish

The EU does not prohibit UK trade with other countries.

Double rubbish. Tariffs, concessions and volumes are regulated by the EU. No FTA can be entered other than it is governed by the EU. No negotiations can be entered unless they are controlled by the EU. Think in terms of a parent who tells his child "what would you rather do; eat your porridge or get smacked?" only to claim that "I allow my child to choose freely". That's your "The EU does not prohibit UK trade with other countries." right there... 

 

4 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

2. Rubbish

The UK can grow as much food as it wants. Nobody forbid that.

Double rubbish. EU controls production and volumes by increasing or decreasing subsidies according to their agricultural policy objectives. You produce too much and EU will subsidise other farmers creating an unfair competitive situation.  

 

4 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

3. Rubbish

Many UK fishermen have in the past sold their fishing quotas to other fishing organizations for good money. Now they complaining. And without restrictive quotas, species protection and mesh sizes, the waters would have been completely empty from fish.

Double rubbish. As a land owner I'm sure you'd be pissed off if someone claimed your land and gave someone else the right to farm it. 

 

4 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

4. Rubbish 

Not all get that same. The EU net payers determine more. The UK has unjustly been granted special discounts in the past as the only country in the EU.

 

Complete and utter double rubbish. I would even call bull sh** on this one. It's not a "discount", it's been put in place to "adjust a unfavourable As the UK's VAT base in comparison with gross national product (GNP) was proportionally higher than in other member states, and the UK was more open than other member states to trade with non-EC countries, this system implied a disproportionate contribution by the UK when it joined the EEC in 1973. Additionally, the fact that around 70 per cent of the EC budget[6] was used to finance the Common Agricultural Policy (CAP), and that the UK had a small agricultural sector meant that the UK gained few receipts under the EEC's redistributive policies."

We're not paying less than others. It's not a discount. It's an adjustment in the calculation of our membership fee. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_rebate

 

4 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

5. Rubbish

The UK can buy what it wants. Restrictions exist only with regard to product and consumer safety. Rat poison Viagra, ungrounded electrical appliances,

Rotten meat, with pesticide contaminated food you can not buy from third countrys and bring it into/ on EU shelfs.

 

Double rubbish. EU issues import licenses controlling trade with non-EU countries.

 

 

4 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

 

[Forethat]

1 hour ago, damascase said:

.......but that doesn’t mean you can not trade, as you claim. 

Has absolutely zero to do with ‘surrendering rights to the EU’. 

 

I have never claimed that. I challenge you to point out WHERE I made that claim (you can't).

 

[tomacht8]

2 hours ago, Forethat said:

Thanks for confirming my point that as member of the EU you give up your right to negotiate and enter FTAs with other countries.

Splitting hairs. The UK as a member of the EU for over 40 years is sitting with 100th of its own professionals at the negotiating table when FTAs are negotiated with third parties. That's been clear for over 40 years , that together with the other members the success is sought together.

 

You join a club to play football together with 10 others. And now you are complaining after 40 years that football is a team sport and you can not play alone in the Premier League.

[Forethat]

10 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

Splitting hairs. The UK as a member of the EU for over 40 years is sitting with 100th of its own professionals at the negotiating table when FTAs are negotiated with third parties. That's been clear for over 40 years , that together with the other members the success is sought together.

 

You join a club to play football together with 10 others. And now you are complaining after 40 years that football is a team sport and you can not play alone.

Again, you fail to comprehend that I'm not in favour of this or that, I'm simply explaining the legal situation. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant, I'm telling you how it is.

 

And just to once again correct your nonsense; There are TWO (2) EU-commissionaires from the UK (Peter Mandelson & Catherine Ashton) with a seat in the Department for Trade (Barroso Commission). Two. Not hundreds.

 

 

 

[tomacht8]

1 minute ago, Forethat said:

Again, you fail to comprehend that I'm not in favour of this or that, I'm simply explaining the legal situation. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant, I'm telling you how it is.

 

And just to once again correct your nonsense; There are TWO (2) EU-commissionaires from the UK (Peter Mandelson & Catherine Ashton) with a seat in the Department for Trade. Two. Not hundreds.

 

 

 

Come on. Only 2 from the UK.

Do not be ridiculous.

 

The EU institutions have tens of thousands of staff on their payrolls. By some estimates, around 1,200 are from the UK and about a quarter of those work in the European Parliament.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Forethat said:

Double rubbish. Tariffs, concessions and volumes are regulated by the EU. No FTA can be entered other than it is governed by the EU. No negotiations can be entered unless they are controlled by the EU. Think in terms of a parent who tells his child "what would you rather do; eat your porridge or get smacked?" only to claim that "I allow my child to choose freely". That's your "The EU does not prohibit UK trade with other countries." right there... 

 

Double rubbish. EU controls production and volumes by increasing or decreasing subsidies according to their agricultural policy objectives. You produce too much and EU will subsidise other farmers creating an unfair competitive situation.  

 

Double rubbish. As a land owner I'm sure you'd be pissed off if someone claimed your land and gave someone else the right to farm it. 

 

 

Complete and utter double rubbish. I would even call bull sh** on this one. It's not a "discount", it's been put in place to "adjust a unfavourable As the UK's VAT base in comparison with gross national product (GNP) was proportionally higher than in other member states, and the UK was more open than other member states to trade with non-EC countries, this system implied a disproportionate contribution by the UK when it joined the EEC in 1973. Additionally, the fact that around 70 per cent of the EC budget[6] was used to finance the Common Agricultural Policy (CAP), and that the UK had a small agricultural sector meant that the UK gained few receipts under the EEC's redistributive policies."

We're not paying less than others. It's not a discount. It's an adjustment in the calculation of our membership fee. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_rebate

 

 

Double rubbish. EU issues import licenses controlling trade with non-EU countries.

 

 

Somebody else who doesn’t understand or misrepresents the facts of ‘fishing rights’ sold by former UK owners of those rights to foreigners under UK law.

[Forethat]

11 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

Come on. Only 2 from the UK.

Do not be ridiculous.

 

The EU institutions have tens of thousands of staff on their payrolls. By some estimates, around 1,200 are from the UK and about a quarter of those work in the European Parliament.

This might come as a bit of a surprise, but he EU Parliament doesn't have ANY legislative powers when it comes to external (non-EU) trade. The EU-commission has monopoly on that. There are two EU-commissionaires from UK in the Department for Trade (Barroso Commission). Peter Mandelson & Catherine Ashton.

 

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/25/the-european-commission

 

Good grief, correcting your nonsense and incorrectness is becoming a habit....

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, Forethat said:

This might come as a bit of a surprise, but he EU Parliament doesn't have ANY legislative powers when it comes to external (non-EU) trade. The EU-commission has monopoly on that. There are two EU-commissionaires from UK in the Department for Trade (Barroso Commission). Peter Mandelson & Catherine Ashton.

 

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/25/the-european-commission

 

Good grief, correcting your nonsense and incorrectness is becoming a habit....

They’ve been awfully busy:

 

https://trade.ec.europa.eu/tradehelp/free-trade-agreements

 

http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-regions/negotiations-and-agreements/index_en.htm#_europe

[tomacht8]

3 minutes ago, Forethat said:

This might come as a bit of a surprise, but he EU Parliament doesn't have ANY legislative powers when it comes to external (non-EU) trade. The EU-commission has monopoly on that. There are two EU-commissionaires from UK in the Department for Trade (Barroso Commission). Peter Mandelson & Catherine Ashton.

 

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/25/the-european-commission

 

Good grief, correcting your nonsense and incorrectness is becoming a habit....

Yes.
I have the same feeling.
Your claim that the UK is only working with two people on the EU FTAs is nonsense.

[Forethat]

26 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

Come on. Only 2 from the UK.

Do not be ridiculous.

 

The EU institutions have tens of thousands of staff on their payrolls. By some estimates, around 1,200 are from the UK and about a quarter of those work in the European Parliament.

Oh, and to point out yet another incorrectness that you post. The total number of UK citizens employed by the EU-commission is 917 (2018).

https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/files/european-commission-hr-key-figures_2018_en.pdf

[tomacht8]

4 minutes ago, Forethat said:

Oh, and to point out yet another incorrectness that you post. The total number of UK citizens employed by the EU-commission is 917 (2018).

https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/files/european-commission-hr-key-figures_2018_en.pdf

That is fine.????

[Hans007]

All this BS talk about shortage of this...shortage of that after Brexit...its Bullshit. Its just not true.

 

There will be NO shortage whatsoever. Its just to make people afraid for leaving the EU. Propaganda from Brussels.

 

I wish my country had the balls to leave...but probably never going to happen. So sad:-(

 

Go Brexit!!!!:-) Britain will be a better place in 2-3 years...trust me.

So envious...on British people...

 

Take care.

 

Hans

[3NUMBAS]

such a large choice of fruit and veg from all over the globe ..a small drop would be manageable nobody will be starving ..let them avacados from mexico ,and other fruits from NZ ,spanish and portugese and poles may be left with rotters but its their own fault for stonewalling boris

[CG1 Blue]

15 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

I think he does not mean the  freedom to study, live and work freely in 27 other European countries. To be able to buy a house unhindered. To be able to open a business unhindered. To be able to spend his pension in the sunny south, to be able to travel unhindered in 27 countries. To be able to use Hospitals and doctors in 27 countries.

 

This is interesting for many young Britons, but he can not mean that freedom, these freedoms will disappear with an unregulated Brexit.

Freedom of movement is often misunderstood.  For example, UK residents can only stay up to 90 days in France. If you are a UK resident who wants to stay in France for more than 90 days, then you need to apply for an EU residency permit in France. 

[Forethat]

1 minute ago, Hans007 said:

All this BS talk about shortage of this...shortage of that after Brexit...its Bullshit. Its just not true.

 

There will be NO shortage whatsoever. Its just to make people afraid for leaving the EU. Propaganda from Brussels.

 

I wish my country had the balls to leave...but probably never going to happen. So sad:-(

 

Go Brexit!!!!:-) Britain will be a better place in 2-3 years...trust me.

So envious...on British people...

 

Take care.

 

Hans

Regarding the food shortage the question is how far the big member states are prepared to go in order to bully UK into submission. You see, if they DON'T and Brexit is a success it's only a matter of time before others will do the same. And if that happens EU is likely to collapse. So in my opinion this has NOTHING to do with Brexit, it is about the survival of EU. And if the French declare that they are prepared to violate international laws, I think we can safely assume that we really don't know what will happen with the food supply from France. In essence, they are a bunch of ill behaved criminals.

 

An important question here is whether France is a country that you'd want to partner with? If this was a relationship between two individuals, every sane person would tell the oppressed to run as fast and far away from this partnership as possible...

[3NUMBAS]

its reported somewhere Neil kinnock is worth 30 millions pounds from his EU gravey train earnings  ..he wouldnt find a job as a bin man or bus driver in real life

 

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/campaign-highlights-kinnocks-10m-eu-2100178

[Forethat]

15 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

I think he does not mean the  freedom to study, live and work freely in 27 other European countries. To be able to buy a house unhindered. To be able to open a business unhindered. To be able to spend his pension in the sunny south, to be able to travel unhindered in 27 countries. To be able to use Hospitals and doctors in 27 countries.

 

This is interesting for many young Britons, but he can not mean that freedom, these freedoms will disappear with an unregulated Brexit.

Rubbish and utter hogwash. And as I said, correcting your nonsense is becoming a habit...

 

1. You are free to study in any EU-country even after Brexit

2. You are free to live in any other EU-country even after Brexit

3. You are free to buy a house in any other EU-country even after Brexit 

4. You are free to travel unhindered to any other EU-country even after Brexit

5. You are able to use hospitals and doctors in 27 countries even after Brexit

 

NONE of these freedoms will "disappear" with an unregulated Brexit.  

 

"buuhuuu, I'll have to show my passport when I travel" 

 

[Forethat]

46 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

Yes.
I have the same feeling.
Your claim that the UK is only working with two people on the EU FTAs is nonsense.

Once again, you're incorrect. I rightfully claimed that there are two EU-commissionaires from UK in the Department for Trade. They are the ones with any power and ability to negotiate. As much as it may come as a surprise to you; a PA, secretary or office clerk can't actually enter negotiations. Trust me. 

 

Two EU-commissionaires. Two. Do we have an accord?

[tomacht8]

3 minutes ago, Forethat said:

Once again, you're incorrect. I rightfully claimed that there are two EU-commissionaires from UK in the Department for Trade. They are the ones with any power and ability to negotiate. As much as it may come as a surprise to you; a PA, secretary or office clerk can't actually enter negotiations. Trust me. 

 

Two EU-commissionaires. Two. Do we have an accord?

It is gratifying that you are now precise in terms of the drawing right. But that in the background many specialists working at the details together with other EU colleagues, you do not dispute, right?

[Forethat]

1 minute ago, tomacht8 said:

It is gratifying that you are now precise in terms of the drawing right. But that in the background many specialists working at the details together with other EU colleagues, you do not dispute, right?

Absolutely, but none of the employees are acting on behalf of their country. All legal, fiscal and logistical issues are dealt with on a joint basis. The commissionaires are working on the same basis - they are NOT representing their respective country. They are representing EU. A biased position to favour a specific country is illegal. 

[tomacht8]

21 minutes ago, Forethat said:

Rubbish and utter hogwash. And as I said, correcting your nonsense is becoming a habit...

 

1. You are free to study in any EU-country even after Brexit

2. You are free to live in any other EU-country even after Brexit

3. You are free to buy a house in any other EU-country even after Brexit 

4. You are free to travel unhindered to any other EU-country even after Brexit

5. You are able to use hospitals and doctors in 27 countries even after Brexit

 

NONE of these freedoms will "disappear" with an unregulated Brexit.  

 

"buuhuuu, I'll have to show my passport when I travel" 

 

555

So nothing will change, with regard to the right of free movement, if the UK becomes a third country overnight. That's what the Polish plumbers and Roman harvest workers like to hear.

 

 

 

[tomacht8]

5 minutes ago, Forethat said:

Absolutely, but none of the employees are acting on behalf of their country. All legal, fiscal and logistical issues are dealt with on a joint basis. The commissionaires are working on the same basis - they are NOT representing their respective country. They are representing EU. A biased position to favour a specific country is illegal. 

Be careful not to lose your temper. Sorry i have no more time for your drivel.

[Forethat]

11 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

Be careful not to lose your temper. Sorry i have no more time for your drivel.

Yes, crawl back underneath your bridge.

 

[candide]

1 hour ago, 3NUMBAS said:

such a large choice of fruit and veg from all over the globe ..a small drop would be manageable nobody will be starving ..let them avacados from mexico ,and other fruits from NZ ,spanish and portugese and poles may be left with rotters but its their own fault for stonewalling boris

 

1 hour ago, Forethat said:

Regarding the food shortage the question is how far the big member states are prepared to go in order to bully UK into submission. You see, if they DON'T and Brexit is a success it's only a matter of time before others will do the same. And if that happens EU is likely to collapse. So in my opinion this has NOTHING to do with Brexit, it is about the survival of EU. And if the French declare that they are prepared to violate international laws, I think we can safely assume that we really don't know what will happen with the food supply from France. In essence, they are a bunch of ill behaved criminals.

 

An important question here is whether France is a country that you'd want to partner with? If this was a relationship between two individuals, every sane person would tell the oppressed to run as fast and far away from this partnership as possible...

How many times must it be repeated that the issue adressed in the OP is not about EU Member States making problems for sending food to UK? It is about Customs procedures in UK by the British!

 

Regardless of whether goods come from the EU or from elsewhere, they will be subject to the same Customs operations.

[Loiner]

24 minutes ago, candide said:

 

How many times must it be repeated that the issue adressed in the OP is not about EU Member States making problems for sending food to UK? It is about Customs procedures in UK by the British!

 

Regardless of whether goods come from the EU or from elsewhere, they will be subject to the same Customs operations.

The OP does try to assert that new import customs procedures would necessitate more checks and therefore delays. This is simply Remainer rubbish. The government has been working for the past couple of years to streamline procedures and reduce checks post Brexit.

That some Remainers claim all UK/EU trade will cease, would imply there would be no shipments and no trucks queuing at Dover or Calais. We would be faced with empty ferries and idle customs officers. 

 

I believe that undercover of Project Fear, the call of yet another trade lobby is looking to engage in some dodgy arrangements. What they would be is not clear, but probably some form of collusion. The most telling line is "... industry had repeatedly asked the government to provide a guarantee that companies would not be fined by the regulator for engaging in anti-competitive behavior."   

Remainer big business is not to be trusted where Brexit is concerned.

[candide]

5 minutes ago, Loiner said:

The OP does try to assert that new import customs procedures would necessitate more checks and therefore delays. This is simply Remainer rubbish. The government has been working for the past couple of years to streamline procedures and reduce checks post Brexit.

That some Remainers claim all UK/EU trade will cease, would imply there would be no shipments and no trucks queuing at Dover or Calais. We would be faced with empty ferries and idle customs officers. 

 

I believe that undercover of Project Fear, the call of yet another trade lobby is looking to engage in some dodgy arrangements. What they would be is not clear, but probably some form of collusion. The most telling line is "... industry had repeatedly asked the government to provide a guarantee that companies would not be fined by the regulator for engaging in anti-competitive behavior."   

Remainer big business is not to be trusted where Brexit is concerned.

Rubbish or not, it will not be faster to import goods from outside the EU than from the EU. Ok?

[Loiner]

9 minutes ago, candide said:

Rubbish or not, it will not be faster to import goods from outside the EU than from the EU. Ok?

Not necessarily. Where do you want to start the stopwatch - Point Of Origin or Arrival at Customs?

[stevenl]

30 minutes ago, Loiner said:

The OP does try to assert that new import customs procedures would necessitate more checks and therefore delays. This is simply Remainer rubbish. The government has been working for the past couple of years to streamline procedures and reduce checks post Brexit.

That some Remainers claim all UK/EU trade will cease, would imply there would be no shipments and no trucks queuing at Dover or Calais. We would be faced with empty ferries and idle customs officers. 

 

I believe that undercover of Project Fear, the call of yet another trade lobby is looking to engage in some dodgy arrangements. What they would be is not clear, but probably some form of collusion. The most telling line is "... industry had repeatedly asked the government to provide a guarantee that companies would not be fined by the regulator for engaging in anti-competitive behavior."   

Remainer big business is not to be trusted where Brexit is concerned.

Remainers claim all trade with EU will cease? Please share where those claims are being made.

 

It is really easy: with no deal trade will be on WTO terms, until a trade deal has been made, same as with other countries. But EU is closer by than other countries, so will still be easiest and fastest trading partner.

[candide]

4 hours ago, Loiner said:

Not necessarily. Where do you want to start the stopwatch - Point Of Origin or Arrival at Customs?

Don't forget the wind direction! 

[Forethat]

6 hours ago, candide said:

 

How many times must it be repeated that the issue adressed in the OP is not about EU Member States making problems for sending food to UK? It is about Customs procedures in UK by the British!

And those issues are being addressed as we speak.

 

Frankly, I am more concerned with the French trying to sabotage and stop British lorries carrying British produce into France.