How Many Are “Stuck” Here With No Way Out

[bowerboy]

Seven and five years ago I had children with my Thai wife and at that time it crossed my mind to move back to my home country but it wasn’t high on my list of priorities.

 

3 years ago I started to look into going back to England or Australia (I am a dual citizen and so are my kids) as an option just out of curiosity and started to realize how incredibly difficult it could potentially be especially if you fell on hard times or didn’t have particularly good employment prospects. This realization of how hard it would be started to worry me.

 

To cut a very long story short I got offered a good job back in Australia and took it with the main purpose of getting my wife permanent residence and even moving back permanently. It took about a year but my wife got her Australian permanent residence but we moved back to Thailand for various reasons (age of the kids, day care costs, lower total salary package than I first thought, great job offer back in Thailand).

 

So now we live in Thailand and my wife has permenant residence in Australia and I feel incredibly lucky that we could go to Australia anytime at the drop of a hat (at least for the next 4 years as that is how long is left on the visa...permanent doesn’t actually mean permenanent). We will definitely go back within those 4 years but exactly sure when.

 

I have always been here on a work visa arranged by my company and always through that one stop service which makes things easy. But with all the changes that seem to be happening and the complaints it seems many would like out of Thailand (some not all).

 

I know now how hard it is to get out of here and back home unless you have good money behind you, are already well set up in your home country or have a good job offer (but who wants to employ someone from Thailand when there are easier options at home). Moving to another country in the South East Asia Region with family would seem equally hard if not harder (unless a good job offer was on hand but the days of relocating families are all but over for most companies).

 

If you are say 45 years old and have been working here for 15 years on 100k per month (or less) then how on earth could you ever manage to relocate to home or anywhere else for that matter. I imagine you could very easily become completely stuck here with little or no other options.

 

Am i wrong to think that way? Is it being overly pessimistic to think you could get well and truly stuck here with no realistic way out. To be clear I guess I am really referring to Farangs with Thai wives and families (for A single person there is onbviously nonissue at all).

 

How many are plain stuck here with no way out??

Edited August 10, 2019 by bowerboy
Correction

[madmen]

14 minutes ago, bowerboy said:

I feel incredibly lucky that we could go to Australia anytime at the drop of a hat

Bye your own admission you failed at your attempt to live in oz even with a "Good job" under you're belt so you ran back here. Why put you're family through that drama again !

[FritsSikkink]

If you have the skills and experience employers are looking for, you can work anywhere and have a decent living. 

[NCC1701A]

33 minutes ago, bowerboy said:

I imagine you could very easily become completely stuck here with little or no other options.

yes you are stuck. and even if you were in a western country changing jobs at 45 is difficult and in your fifties almost impossible. changing cities, schools is horribly difficult.

and sorry to say your children are really going to have a hard time trying to live in the west.

i think you need to stop thinking about leaving and get a house with no mortgage or debt in Thailand and pray to god nothing happens to your wife.   

[bowerboy]

15 minutes ago, madmen said:

Bye your own admission you failed at your attempt to live in oz even with a "Good job" under you're belt so you ran back here. Why put you're family through that drama again !

 

Family stayed here in Thailand (didn’t leave their international school and didnt move home)....I was back here almost every month and they came down every holiday....there was no drama.

 

The job in Oz was good but the job here is exceptional and is a huge Australian company with the idea to relocate me back to Oz in the future.

 

Your not stuck here are you? ????

 

 

[bowerboy]

2 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

yes you are stuck. and even if you were in a western country changing jobs at 45 is difficult and in your fifties almost impossible. changing cities, schools is horribly difficult.

and sorry to say your children are really going to have a hard time trying to live in the west.

i think you need to stop thinking about leaving and get a house with no mortgage or debt in Thailand and pray to god nothing happens to your wife.   

 

Thanks for your thoughts and agreed on the first parts.

 

You may of misunderstood me on the second part....we definitely are not stuck here....we can very easily relocate to Australia anytime.

[brokenbone]

im stuck in the way of back pain, its too horribly painful to relocate with all that entails

[madmen]

23 hours ago, bowerboy said:

 

Family stayed here in Thailand (didn’t leave their international school and didnt move home)....I was back here almost every month and they came down every holiday....there was no drama.

 

The job in Oz was good but the job here is exceptional and is a huge Australian company with the idea to relocate me back to Oz in the future.

 

Your not stuck here are you? ????

 

 

Not according to your 3rd paragraph. Care to explain ?

Edited August 11, 2019 by blackcab
Bold font removed. Please do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes or wording

[bowerboy]

5 minutes ago, madmen said:

Not according to your 3rd paragraph. Care to explain ?

 

No. I have got better things to do than explain anything to a bitter keyboard warrior that I assume is probably stuck here judging by their tone.

[bowerboy]

13 minutes ago, brokenbone said:

im stuck in the way of back pain, its too horribly painful to relocate with all that entails

 

Sorry to hear that and yes that is a different kettle of fish entirely....as long as you are financially ok then I think Thailand is as good a place as any to be chronically ill (probably better here than in the UK if you have reasonable means here),

[bowerboy]

I was hoping this could be a constructive thread given how many people nowadays are talking of relocating. I was hoping it might give some ideas and provoke some thoughts.

 

I do feel blessed that I got that bolt out of the blue job offer that allowed me and my family a way out if we ever need or want it....but I just think a lot of people underestimate just how hard it can be to relocate. At the very least (and especially from UK as many are) you can expect your family to be apart for a very long time and to have to support 2 households at a time when you probably need that money the most.

 

Again this is mainly for families that have been here a long time....if you live in your home country already and met a lass and started a family then different story entirely.

[timendres]

23 hours ago, bowerboy said:

No. I have got better things to do than explain anything to a bitter keyboard warrior that I assume is probably stuck here judging by their tone.

From the OP:

On 8/10/2019 at 10:01 PM, bowerboy said:

It took about a year but my wife got her Australian permanent residence but we moved back to Thailand for various reasons (age of the kids, day care costs, lower total salary package than I first thought, great job offer back in Thailand).

Madmen does not sound bitter, he sounds dubious, which, when reading your own words, seems reasonable. Who is judging?

 

Being "stuck" here is little different than being "stuck" back home, except that it is cheaper and more palatable. Know plenty of people in the US who are unemployed, unemployable, losing their homes, in the middle of a horrible divorce, or otherwise had their lives completely disrupted and looking bleak. Many would be happy to be "stuck" here instead. 

Edited August 11, 2019 by blackcab
Bold font removed. Please do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes or wording

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, bowerboy said:

How many are plain stuck here with no way out??

Thailand was only ever one of my chosen retirement ports would never of considered working here in my working years.

[timendres]

1 hour ago, bowerboy said:

Am i wrong to think that way? Is it being overly pessimistic to think you could get well and truly stuck here with no realistic way out. To be clear I guess I am really referring to Farangs with Thai wives and families (for A single person there is onbviously nonissue at all).

This can be just as much of an issue for single person. If you are living here on social security that does not cover the expenses of living in the US (as an example), then you may be just as "stuck", since finding employment back home will be nearly impossible. Of course, you have the option of other countries that can be afforded, but you are "stuck" from going back home.

 

It is a scary prospect for many who live on limited budgets.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, timendres said:

This can be just as much of an issue for single person. If you are living here on social security that does not cover the expenses of living in the US (as an example), then you may be just as "stuck", since finding employment back home will be nearly impossible. Of course, you have the option of other countries that can be afforded, but you are "stuck" from going back home.

 

It is a scary prospect for many who live on limited budgets.

Yes, I'm not sure how many people are in that boat, but that resembles my situation. I do have other assets other than the S.S. but if I moved back to the U.S. it would involve a very harsh quality of life. But the choices of alternatives for the lower income set is rather limited each with pitfalls of their own, and of course none of them are in the South of France.

[AlexRich]

It’s an interesting topic. There will be many Farang with small children living in Thailand who get by on a pension, a pension in a home currency that has depreciated greatly against the Baht. If they look into going home with a Thai wife and family they may not reach the income threshold to apply and may be too old for the job market back home.

 

Currency depreciation will also affect their living standards in Thailand. With the rules changing for the worse they may find themselves not meeting the requirements of Thailand. They are between a rock and a hard place. Is their only option to abandon their family and return to a home country that may not be that welcoming? 

Edited August 10, 2019 by AlexRich

[mommysboy]

I think it's still possible to relocate even on a limited budget.  For someone really up against it, you'd have to go home first and get a job. 

 

Quite simply, I'd rather be poor in UK/Aus than in Thailand.

 

 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, mommysboy said:

I think it's still possible to relocate even on a limited budget.  For someone really up against it, you'd have to go home first and get a job. 

 

Quite simply, I'd rather be poor in UK/Aus than in Thailand.

 

 

Sure if you're still employable.

I hear there are lots of openings at chicken processing plants in the U.S. now.

Edited August 10, 2019 by Jingthing

[White Christmas13]

37 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Sure if you're still employable.

I hear there are lots of openings at chicken processing plants in the U.S. now.

He was not talking about the US he was talking about the UK and Australia

and yes I made the move back to Australia with nothing in my pocked a few

years back (lost every thing in Thailand) had nothing to come back to, lost all

my super my factory my house in Australia but I guess I believed I could live

and make some money in Thailand yes it was a bad decision but I am not angry

I still go back to Thailand ones or twice a year (I am living on a pension now )

 

[Genmai]

Quote

how many are stuck here with no way out

 

The mistake I made 5 years ago was to a) burn my bridges and relocate here 100%, and b) invest all my money into starting a business here all without doing any due diligence, research or anything. I didn't even know ThaiVisa was a thing at the time. 

 

Pretty quickly I found this place was a hole and not particularly pleasant to be in. Nobody else's fault but mine, I should have been more thoughtful. At the time my marriage was going to **** and I just needed a new start and wasn't thinking clearly.

 

Now all my money is tied up in a business here which isn't doing that great. Eventually it will start pulling in profits after some years but not sure I can stick around till then. In a way I don't particularly feel like I'm "stuck" here. Every day I make the decision whether I want to continue towards trying to make a return on my investments or just saying "**** it" and taking off to a place where I actually enjoy living. Every now and then I come on this forum to vent my frustrations with the place, frustrations which some members sympathize with and others are kind enough to tolerate. Eventually I know I will leave, hopefully with a bit more common sense to choose my next country of residence carefully.

 

I'm in my 30s, not married, no kids or commitments and no need for the fancy things of life. I could take off tomorrow, cut my losses short, move to another nearby country and teach English or something. I do truly feel sorry for the guys stuck here with no way out, those who hate it yet have commitments or responsibilities or poor finances. It must be hell.

[emptypockets]

1 hour ago, bowerboy said:

 

Family stayed here in Thailand (didn’t leave their international school and didnt move home)....I was back here almost every month and they came down every holiday....there was no drama.

 

The job in Oz was good but the job here is exceptional and is a huge Australian company with the idea to relocate me back to Oz in the future.

 

Your not stuck here are you? ????

 

 

So what exactly are you asking? My Thai wife has PR in Oz, she is now living in Thai as I am working in Myanmar for an international company. it suits us for me to visit her in Thailand instead of Oz and is cheaper for my employer.

 

To answer your question...No I'm not stuck anywhere, but you seem to be.

[BestB]

8 minutes ago, Genmai said:

 

The mistake I made 5 years ago was to a) burn my bridges and relocate here 100%, and b) invest all my money into starting a business here all without doing any due diligence, research or anything. I didn't even know ThaiVisa was a thing at the time. 

 

Pretty quickly I found this place was a hole and not particularly pleasant to be in. Nobody else's fault but mine, I should have been more thoughtful. At the time my marriage was going to **** and I just needed a new start and wasn't thinking clearly.

 

Now all my money is tied up in a business here which isn't doing that great. Eventually it will start pulling in profits after some years but not sure I can stick around till then. In a way I don't particularly feel like I'm "stuck" here. Every day I make the decision whether I want to continue towards trying to make a return on my investments or just saying "**** it" and taking off to a place where I actually enjoy living. Every now and then I come on this forum to vent my frustrations with the place, frustrations which some members sympathize with and others are kind enough to tolerate. Eventually I know I will leave, hopefully with a bit more common sense to choose my next country of residence carefully.

 

I'm in my 30s, not married, no kids or commitments and no need for the fancy things of life. I could take off tomorrow, cut my losses short, move to another nearby country and teach English or something. I do truly feel sorry for the guys stuck here with no way out, those who hate it yet have commitments or responsibilities or poor finances. It must be hell.

I am in very similar position as you, only difference is I have been here for 18 years and in my early 40’s now.

 

i have 3 problems with relocation. One being financial 

Second, unsure if I have enough power to start again from 0 after having lived most of my adult life here. New language, new culture, new rules , new life

And lastly , grass always looks greener on the other side . Other countries may look attractive but may well not be once you start to live there.

 

Thailand is not all that bad, but it is not an easy county to run business to make money

[emptypockets]

1 hour ago, AlexRich said:

It’s an interesting topic. There will be many Farang with small children living in Thailand who get by on a pension, a pension in a home currency that has depreciated greatly against the Baht. If they look into going home with a Thai wife and family they may not reach the income threshold to apply and may be too old for the job market back home.

 

Currency depreciation will also affect their living standards in Thailand. With the rules changing for the worse they may find themselves not meeting the requirements of Thailand. They are between a rock and a hard place. Is their only option to abandon their family and return to a home country that may not be that welcoming? 

Many farang with small children who get by on a pension???

 

WHY?? For the love of God WHY? Why do old men do this???

Should have their home pension garnisheed to pay for their kids in Thailand. Make them pay for their jollies overseas instead of running away to the home country and leaving these kids and wife destitute.

 

Of course the same people openly brag about how the Thai economy will collapse without their financial input when they leave.

 

 

[Isaanbiker]

22 hours ago, mommysboy said:

I think it's still possible to relocate even on a limited budget.  For someone really up against it, you'd have to go home first and get a job. 

 

Quite simply, I'd rather be poor in UK/Aus than in Thailand.

 

 

 

    

 Would you prefer to be miserable, lonely and sad, leaving your family, car, bike, etc. here and start to live off social welfare in a country where you have not much more in common than perhaps the language the people in this country speak? 

 

  When I moved to LOS 17 years ago, it was a lovely country to live. 

 

Many things were different, Thais usually loved to have a chat with foreigners, it was much cheaper, and I could buy way more for my salary than I can afford right now. 

 

Wages didn't go up, but pretty much everything else did. I had 3 K more per month ten years ago. 

 

Thai people, in general, were a lot friendlier back in the old days than they are now and that's not only the colleagues at schools.

I can sense that almost everywhere. 
 
If I'd be single, I'd not be here anymore and would have left some years ago. But I can't take my family to the place I once called my home, and I'm too old to get a decent job. 

 

Not having enough income and I can't get my family to Europe. Some good friends have passed away, and others moved away. 

 

Start over again and being alone? I never lived alone and was always in a relationship. 

 

My apologies, but it's a bizarre situation. 

 

Besides that, I've never taught my family the language they'd have to speak in Europe, and they'd have to pass a language test in verbal and written form. 

 

Teaching them a third language would take a while and I don't even know if they'd like it there and I know that I can't live there anymore. 

 

  The topic is indeed fascinating, and there must be many foreigners who are definitely "stuck" in a situation where they can't move forward, and they can't go back. 

 

  I've had a few million baht when I came to this country and spent every baht of my salaries. I've always paid my income tax, got my police clearance, never did something wrong, not one day of overstay. 

I know that schools can offer a three-year contract, but that never happened to me. 

 

Laws didn't get more comfortable for us, so what's the understandable reason for living here other than supporting a family?

 

Even my teacher's license doesn't seem to help me much because I'm too old for many school superiors who believe that a foreign teacher shouldn't be older than 45 and that's the maximum for some of them. 

 

A 20-year-old backpacker without a degree might have better chances of landing a job than I do. Let's face it; it's not about the experience here; it's more about the appearance.

 

Nobody cares when people have a TOEIC score of 399 if they are young and good looking. And it seems that nobody gives a flying kangaroo if the students learn something or not. 

 

I'd never have thought that I'd ever work for an agency again, but shit happens, and I do not want to send money to my family living and working somewhere else in another province.  

 

It's pretty much complicated to say if I'm stuck, trapped, or just fuc_ed? 

 

That's my honest answer to your question, and I'm confident that I'm not the only one.

[mstevens]

I moved back home in my mid 40s after 15 odd years in Thailand. I was lucky and things worked out ok, but that's not to say it was easy.

 

The cost of relocation and setting up a life again back home was steep, as was the cost of setting up a new household. I was lucky in that I had done ok financially and had some reserves. I cannot imagine what it would be like returning home without much in the way of savings.

 

There is a huge opportunity cost staying in Thailand a long time if it's through your prime earning years. If you're in a professional / well-paid position AND you don't lose sight of the need to save for the future, you should be ok. But if you don't plan for the future, you might find yourself stuck in Thailand. And given how many seem to fall out of love with Thailand and / or face visa issues, that's a very scary prospect.

 

Having been there, done that so to speak, I'd say make sure you always have a number in mind and if your finances get down to that point, then get on a plane and go home. That number should be an amount that allows you to set up a place to live back home and live for a few months without employment + income.

 

 

Edited August 10, 2019 by mstevens

[RichardColeman]

My own situation is that I own a property in the UK, it brings in about £1000 a month, I have an early 55 pension that equates to about £630 a month. So about £1630 a month. It's enough to meet marriage 45k requirements and I can transfer a recent annuity for 400k if required. The wife brings in another 12k a month also. Later i'll get the UK state pension also (slightly reduced).

 

I really have little sympathy for people that do not plan their lives adequately enough. Selling you house in UK, and having zilch to return to is madness. I know I am not rich by the standards of many of the Thaivisa visitors, but I am stable, even if I live a fairly dull life compared to most. I can return in later life - which I plan to - sell the house, move to a cheaper area and bring the wife and daughter later.

 

I planned carefully paying off my mortgage a while back and accepting a redundancy offer, planned carefully early pension release and annuity, planned carefully where I could live and what budget we could spent, I planned carefully if I could afford another child at 52 (which we were actually given by a Thai university student who didn't want to give her to an orphanage).

 

Planning is dull, boring and frustrating - but asking for sympathy for selling all the family jewels and returning to a cardboard box if beyond me,

 

I do have some sympathy however for people caught up in the baht strength however.  

 

Giving people sympathy for bad life choices and failed to plan is the same as feeling sorry for someone who loses all their money in the bookies.

 

As for comments above about people bringing up kids on low money - I think they should try and think more about that child potentially taking care of that 'old pensioner' near the end of his life and eventually bringing in an income. Maybe better to waste your money on a kid than be the old guy in the house/condo next door that's lost the use of his legs and cannot go out anymore 

 

Of course - none of us can plan ahead that well for changes in visa requirements or severe baht strength

 

 

[wisperone]

Always have a Plan B and plan for the future.  We don't just wake up some day and are all of a sudden old. We have a lot of years to prepare for the future possibilities in life. Burning bridges, shooting your entire wad in a foreign country, and never think you may be better off at home in ones elder years is just short sighted.

[stigar]

After me and my exwife get married we moved with our 2 kids to norway.The rules says that she cant be out of norway more then maximum 7 months the first 3 years period before she can et a permanent stay here.After 3 year under same adress as me she got the permant stay.And she still here with our kids.Kids get automatic norwegian sistizenships in norway if their born in thailand.Never regret moving here and stay her permantly.She have to renew her permant stay every 2 year abd she have to show her passport that she not stay to long periods in thailand.

The new card for permant stay the local policestation fix and send the papers to the ministery of foreign affarrs.After a week she get the new card for the next 2 years.In norway they HAVE to take a 600 hours languecourse with a test after they finish this.This is free,

[bowerboy]

10 hours ago, AlexRich said:

It’s an interesting topic. There will be many Farang with small children living in Thailand who get by on a pension, a pension in a home currency that has depreciated greatly against the Baht. If they look into going home with a Thai wife and family they may not reach the income threshold to apply and may be too old for the job market back home.

 

Currency depreciation will also affect their living standards in Thailand. With the rules changing for the worse they may find themselves not meeting the requirements of Thailand. They are between a rock and a hard place. Is their only option to abandon their family and return to a home country that may not be that welcoming? 

 

Thank you for your succinct summing up of the issue (you did a much better job of it than me).

 

Its a scary prospect and I think it effects a bit insignificant number of people living here.

[bowerboy]

20 hours ago, Isaanbiker said:

 

    

 Would you prefer to be miserable, lonely and sad, leaving your family, car, bike, etc. here and start to live off social welfare in a country where you have not much more in common than perhaps the language the people in this country speak? 

 

  When I moved to LOS 17 years ago, it was a lovely country to live. 

 

Many things were different, Thais usually loved to have a chat with foreigners, it was much cheaper, and I could buy way more for my salary than I can afford right now. 

 

Wages didn't go up, but pretty much everything else did. I had 3 K more per month ten years ago. 

 

Thai people, in general, were a lot friendlier back in the old days than they are now and that's not only the colleagues at schools.

I can sense that almost everywhere. 
 
If I'd be single, I'd not be here anymore and would have left some years ago. But I can't take my family to the place I once called my home, and I'm too old to get a decent job. 

 

Not having enough income and I can't get my family to Europe. Some good friends have passed away, and others moved away. 

 

Start over again and being alone? I never lived alone and was always in a relationship. 

 

My apologies, but it's a bizarre situation. 

 

Besides that, I've never taught my family the language they'd have to speak in Europe, and they'd have to pass a language test in verbal and written form. 

 

Teaching them a third language would take a while and I don't even know if they'd like it there and I know that I can't live there anymore. 

 

  The topic is indeed fascinating, and there must be many foreigners who are definitely "stuck" in a situation where they can't move forward, and they can't go back. 

 

  I've had a few million baht when I came to this country and spent every baht of my salaries. I've always paid my income tax, got my police clearance, never did something wrong, not one day of overstay. 

I know that schools can offer a three-year contract, but that never happened to me. 

 

Laws didn't get more comfortable for us, so what's the understandable reason for living here other than supporting a family?

 

Even my teacher's license doesn't seem to help me much because I'm too old for many school superiors who believe that a foreign teacher shouldn't be older than 45 and that's the maximum for some of them. 

 

A 20-year-old backpacker without a degree might have better chances of landing a job than I do. Let's face it; it's not about the experience here; it's more about the appearance.

 

Nobody cares when people have a TOEIC score of 399 if they are young and good looking. And it seems that nobody gives a flying kangaroo if the students learn something or not. 

 

I'd never have thought that I'd ever work for an agency again, but shit happens, and I do not want to send money to my family living and working somewhere else in another province.  

 

It's pretty much complicated to say if I'm stuck, trapped, or just fuc_ed? 

 

That's my honest answer to your question, and I'm confident that I'm not the only one.

 

Thanks for sharing....this is the point I was getting at....it can easily creep up on you I think and has probably happened to a fair few.

 

Could happen to anyone and it’s not an easy situation to get out of...