TM30: “It’s really not that hard”, immigration official tells foreigners

[Mises]

52 minutes ago, Burma Bill said:

I am sorry but I do not understand the hysteria about TM30 as I have never been asked to complete one. I have never done a 90 day report in recent years as I regularly travel to surrounding ASEAN countries. I have just completed a 4 day visit to Yangon and throughout there was no mention of a TM30. I traveled overnight on a inter-provincial bus from Khon Kaen to Rangsit (for DMK) - no mention of a TM30. At Immigration in DMK, my TM6 (departure) was removed and passport stamped. The Biometric system had been suspended due to a massive build up of foreigners departing on early morning flights. As with me, just a photo was taken. Again, no mention of a TM30. On my return from Yangon, new TM6 completed and passport stamped with no problems at all. Biometric system was working but just 4 fingers of right hand and a photo for me. No mention of a TM30. I have a one year retirement visa with a one year multiple re-entry permit. I returned home on another inter-provincial bus from Mor-Chit to Khon Kaen. No mention anywhere of a TM30. In 2 weeks time I shall be visiting Cambodia and I am sure there will be no mention of TM30s. I shall of course receive yet another new TM6 (Departure).

Ditto

I fill in the TM6 and that is it. I always exit within 90 days.  As far as immigration is concerned I have never heard of a TM30 and neither has my British landlord who has not been even in Thailand for 2 years.  There is no mention of it when I get my 1 year multi entry visa or any where else from immigration.  If TM30 ever becomes an issue I will deal with it, pay the fine or whatever. If it becomes too onerous I will take my money elsewhere.

[9653]

16 hours ago, otherstuff1957 said:

Did they say whether a TM30 must be filed when returning from another province or just from out of the country?

No, from one building to the next, you got 24 hrs

[Max69xl]

29 minutes ago, Mises said:

Ditto

I fill in the TM6 and that is it. I always exit within 90 days.  As far as immigration is concerned I have never heard of a TM30 and neither has my British landlord who has not been even in Thailand for 2 years.  There is no mention of it when I get my 1 year multi entry visa or any where else from immigration.  If TM30 ever becomes an issue I will deal with it, pay the fine or whatever. If it becomes too onerous I will take my money elsewhere.

If you leave every 90 days then you never do any 90 days reports. So the TM30 doesn't really concern you. The problem pops up when doing extensions and 90 days reports.

[Max69xl]

1 hour ago, ThomasThBKK said:

We don't need visas for US and Australia...

 

Us Esta clearance costs 14,90 usd that's it... Valid for mant years.

And u can stay 180 days a year without them complaining

Holders of UK,most EU country passports are eligible to travel to the USA for up to 90 days under the Visa Waiver Program. An ESTA approval is required.

[Toadie]

Personally I don't have a problem with the concept. How it is communicated and enforced is obviously pragmatic.

 

The fact that it is a requirement by the owner to lodge needs to be addressed. Fining foreigners instead of the Thai owner is just a cop out.

 

Nice set of rules clearly communicated and enforced. Uhmm.... sorry dozed off

[ThomasThBKK]

Yeah that's what i said, the esta clearance/approval costs 15 usd and is instantantly done online. And valid for 2 years...


https://www.dhs.gov/visa-waiver-program-requirements

"The Visa Waiver Program permits citizens of participating countries* to travel to the United States for business or tourism for stays of up to 90 days without a visa"

Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk

[Max69xl]

3 hours ago, Burma Bill said:

I am sorry but I do not understand the hysteria about TM30 as I have never been asked to complete one. I have never done a 90 day report in recent years as I regularly travel to surrounding ASEAN countries. I have just completed a 4 day visit to Yangon and throughout there was no mention of a TM30. I traveled overnight on a inter-provincial bus from Khon Kaen to Rangsit (for DMK) - no mention of a TM30. At Immigration in DMK, my TM6 (departure) was removed and passport stamped. The Biometric system had been suspended due to a massive build up of foreigners departing on early morning flights. As with me, just a photo was taken. Again, no mention of a TM30. On my return from Yangon, new TM6 completed and passport stamped with no problems at all. Biometric system was working but just 4 fingers of right hand and a photo for me. No mention of a TM30. I have a one year retirement visa with a one year multiple re-entry permit. I returned home on another inter-provincial bus from Mor-Chit to Khon Kaen. No mention anywhere of a TM30. In 2 weeks time I shall be visiting Cambodia and I am sure there will be no mention of TM30s. I shall of course receive yet another new TM6 (Departure).

If you never do 90 days reports or extensions at immigration,then TM30 doesn't really concern you. The TM6 is not same as a TM30.  But for us with Long stay visas/retirement visas, the TM30 needs to be submitted by someone,and at several immigration offices it's totally impossible to apply for another 1 year extension without a previous report, no matter what some people keep posting here. The 90 days report will also be a problem.

[Kalasin Jo]

I'd be very happy to get the TM 30 done with the App for Android if it is quick and easy, but I can't download it  from Google Playstore. the message comes up that it is not available in my country, even though I am in Thailand right now. I bought the device in Europe and set everything up on it there

 

Anyone else have this problem and know how to get round it?

 

I could  try to register through the website, which I've read many times takes weeks, so then you haven't done it in time, so what happens when you do file it? Automatic fine?

[ThomasThBKK]

1 hour ago, Kalasin Jo said:

I'd be very happy to get the TM 30 done with the App for Android if it is quick and easy, but I can't download it  from Google Playstore. the message comes up that it is not available in my country, even though I am in Thailand right now. I bought the device in Europe and set everything up on it there

 

Anyone else have this problem and know how to get round it?

 

I could  try to register through the website, which I've read many times takes weeks, so then you haven't done it in time, so what happens when you do file it? Automatic fine?

You need to create a new gmail account and set the location to Thailand, then login to the playstore with that account, then you can install it. It's only available in Thailand for whatever reason.

[tgw]

was anyone successful in establishing what purpose these TM30 reports actually serve?

 

criminals and terrorists won't report TM30...

 

so what is the purpose?

[lamyai3]

9 hours ago, Golden Triangle said:

Immigration made their own bed, up to them if they continue to lie in it, I remember when microfiche came out, what a game changer that was, the Thais haven't even caught onto that yet, there's a money making idea for some up & coming sales person ????

What they need is one of those new fangled Rolodex things to take care of the filing system properly. Maybe an idea for General Rolodex... 

[simon43]

10 hours ago, Burma Bill said:

I am sorry but I do not understand the hysteria about TM30 as I have never been asked to complete one. ......

Correct - it is not for someone to ask you to complete it.  Ignorance of the law is not their problem.  It sounds as if you never stay in Thailand for more than 90 days, in which case you have not visited your local immigration office to do a 90 day report.  That being the case, it is not up to immigration at border control to tell you to do a TM30.

 

Now, if you stay longer than 90 days and visit your local IO to do a 90 day report, good luck with that, because they'll want to know why you haven't been reporting your address to them after each trip ????

[lamyai3]

20 hours ago, cmsally said:

Did the officials at any time in the meeting admit it is the duty of the house owner and as such if the house owner does not comply then the person in question should not be fined. I think that is a very important point. It is categorically wrong to punish a tenant in lieu of a landlord.

I know there are cases of condo owners and wives that own, but they should be addressing the point on landlords.

There was one moment towards the end (around 1hr 40mins in) when a questioner asked about the difficulties obtaining documentation etc from landlords, and he made the comment about being fined, and the girl laughed in embarrassment - this would have been an opportune moment to push this issue. Unfortunately though it seemed like they were walking on eggshells with the officials there, with the younger ones deflecting and the general practically seething at times. They refused to be pinned down on anything, and offered platitudes about trying to make it better but we can't say when. Even the English speaking official inadvertently admitted to them the utter inefficiency of what they're doing, when he said he gets home at 10pm every night, while his wife is soon to give birth. I find it very difficult to believe immigration staff aren't close to breaking point right now and it's obviously going to get worse if they insist on harder enforcement. I wonder if they've got a union? General Sompong, meet general strike... 

[lamyai3]

20 hours ago, hotchilli said:

That means Monday morning I have to go to my immigration office to state that i'm back home & she (who is very infirm) has to go to her nearest immigration office which is very far from her to register that I stayed at her house as a guest !!!

She cannot do it online as she has no concept of computers/mobile apps or the internet as she is 89 years old !

How is it "not really that hard for her"?

Or how are we a threat to national security?

This just goes to underscore how unworkable the system is. The practical solution is to completely ignore reporting any of these visits by her and you both - the majority of people without knowledge of TM30s wouldn't be reporting anyway. Immigration will appreciate it, as it's a few less pieces of post to add to the ten foot pile on each officer's desk.

[FarFlungFalang]

8 hours ago, Max69xl said:

If you never do 90 days reports or extensions at immigration,then TM30 doesn't really concern you. The TM6 is not same as a TM30.  But for us with Long stay visas/retirement visas, the TM30 needs to be submitted by someone,and at several immigration offices it's totally impossible to apply for another 1 year extension without a previous report, no matter what some people keep posting here. The 90 days report will also be a problem.

Why is it that TM30 only concerns long term expats that report every 90 days?Also you guys are the only ones having to pay the fine for the landlords/house master.So in fact you are being black mailed by immigration,pay the fine for something that is beyond your control and not your fault or get the fick out of the country!In most other countries that would be considered illegal,unfair,uncivilised,inhumane and more un/in words than I can think of right now.Also you guys are the only ones they are really interested in tracking.Why? 

  You guys and gals need to take this to a human rights lawyer.

Edited August 16, 2019 by FarFlungFalang
Add Text

[metisdead]

Some off topic posts and replies have been removed. 

[PatOngo]

2 hours ago, simon43 said:

Now, if you stay longer than 90 days and visit your local IO to do a 90 day report, good luck with that, because they'll want to know why you haven't been reporting your address to them after each trip ????

And they are smart enough to know you have taken that trip? They must have eyes in the wall, or is it drone surveillance?

[lkv]

14 minutes ago, PatOngo said:

And they are smart enough to know you have taken that trip? They must have eyes in the wall, or is it drone surveillance?

If it's an international trip, it's quite obvious you have taken that trip.

 

If domestic, it depends on that place/person where you are going, whether they report you or not. If they do, if once you are "back home" you don't report again (or landlord reports for you), you get fined.

 

This is in theory. In China it's exactly the same model. Tourists staying in hotels don't have to report (hotels do), but as soon as they move out to private accomodation, they (not any landlord), need to report to the closest police station within 24 hours.

 

Similarly, the enforcement is less strict in provinces and more strict in major cities.

 

Edited August 17, 2019 by lkv

[Fex Bluse]

9 hours ago, Toadie said:

Personally I don't have a problem with the concept. How it is communicated and enforced is obviously pragmatic.

 

The fact that it is a requirement by the owner to lodge needs to be addressed. Fining foreigners instead of the Thai owner is just a cop out.

 

Nice set of rules clearly communicated and enforced. Uhmm.... sorry dozed off

It is a cop out indeed. 

And, very typical of Thai to target the weakest in any confrontation.

Can't get the owners?

Who can be bullied?

Oh, Farang and other foreigners are easy to bully as they have no rights here.

 

We can only wonder if they would be doing this if there was a critical mass of mainland Chinese long term stayers in Thailand. I seriously doubt they would risk fining the Chinese...

Edited August 17, 2019 by Fex Bluse

[PatOngo]

4 minutes ago, lkv said:

If it's an international trip, it's quite obvious you have taken that trip.

That is covered by the TM6 on return.

[lkv]

1 minute ago, PatOngo said:

That is covered by the TM6 on return.

Nope, it's not. Unfortunately.

 

You have to do a TM30 within 24 hours.

[ChipButty]

1 hour ago, lamyai3 said:

This just goes to underscore how unworkable the system is. The practical solution is to completely ignore reporting any of these visits by her and you both - the majority of people without knowledge of TM30s wouldn't be reporting anyway. Immigration will appreciate it, as it's a few less pieces of post to add to the ten foot pile on each officer's desk.

There is a lot of people still dont know what it is TM 30 even Farangs 

[ChipButty]

10 hours ago, 9653 said:

No, from one building to the next, you got 24 hrs

From one Bed to another Bed get your TM 30 filed

[Odisan]

13 hours ago, Burma Bill said:

I am sorry but I do not understand the hysteria about TM30 as I have never been asked to complete one. I have never done a 90 day report in recent years as I regularly travel to surrounding ASEAN countries. I have just completed a 4 day visit to Yangon and throughout there was no mention of a TM30. I traveled overnight on a inter-provincial bus from Khon Kaen to Rangsit (for DMK) - no mention of a TM30. At Immigration in DMK, my TM6 (departure) was removed and passport stamped. The Biometric system had been suspended due to a massive build up of foreigners departing on early morning flights. As with me, just a photo was taken. Again, no mention of a TM30. On my return from Yangon, new TM6 completed and passport stamped with no problems at all. Biometric system was working but just 4 fingers of right hand and a photo for me. No mention of a TM30. I have a one year retirement visa with a one year multiple re-entry permit. I returned home on another inter-provincial bus from Mor-Chit to Khon Kaen. No mention anywhere of a TM30. In 2 weeks time I shall be visiting Cambodia and I am sure there will be no mention of TM30s. I shall of course receive yet another new TM6 (Departure).

So, despite the protestations of many to whom it has happened to (is it really hysteria or just your hyperbole?), because it's never happened to you you proclaim to not understand it. However, and given you do a lot traveling, there's a saying that travel broadens your horizons and opens your mind. I'd argue that, most certainly in this case, the saying is wrong.

[mackayae]

We can only hope that these IOs are denied visas to visit 1st world countries.

[graemeaylward]

The link to the android app works, once the app shows on play store, it says it is not available in your country! Thailand is my country, I live here! Why would it be needed anywhere else!


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[Peterw42]

6 hours ago, tgw said:

was anyone successful in establishing what purpose these TM30 reports actually serve?

 

criminals and terrorists won't report TM30...

 

so what is the purpose?

In theory there will be a TM30 report from any place the terrorist stays. TM30 isnt the terrorist doing a report its the property he stays in doing a report.

[zyphodb]

12 hours ago, Salerno said:

Surrounded no, but they are only 31 miles from France 

 

Perhaps if the UK introduced and enforced a GB30 you wouldn't get stories like this:

"UK border checks have been branded "shambolic" after it emerged the Home Office has lost track of more than 600,000 people who should have left the country in the past two years."

 

Perhaps if you actually give it the permissions required it will actually work 

I know that...

 

   The point was, the permissions that it wanted. ie. see everything on your phone, listen to your calls, take over your phone and make calls, take photos/videos without your permission...

[FarFlungFalang]

17 minutes ago, Odisan said:

So, despite the protestations of many to whom it has happened to (is it really hysteria or just your hyperbole?), because it's never happened to you you proclaim to not understand it. However, and given you do a lot traveling, there's a saying that travel broadens your horizons and opens your mind. I'd argue that, most certainly in this case, the saying is wrong.

I also have never been asked to do a TM30 nor have I volunteered to do one,I do how ever easily recognise a breech of human rights when I see one and threatening to deport some one for not paying for the landlords non compliance is extortion and should be exposed to the international media with headlines ten foot tall (that's 3.05 meters).

[Jip99]

2 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said:

I also have never been asked to do a TM30 nor have I volunteered to do one,I do how ever easily recognise a breech of human rights when I see one and threatening to deport some one for not paying for the landlords non compliance is extortion and should be exposed to the international media with headlines ten foot tall (that's 3.05 meters).

 

 

Amusing