UK plans to end EU freedom of movement immediately in no-deal Brexit

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, <deleted> dasterdly said:

"The Poles don't bring prosperity to British working men, they put 'em on benefits that the rest of us have to pay for, that's not prosperity."

 

???? Or (for those employers that follow the rules), allow them to keep wages as low as possible.

Not the whole story by a long way:

 

https://fullfact.org/immigration/immigration-wages/

[dick dasterdly]

33 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So calling out someone who made dubious statements, which he of course can't substantiate,  regarding the number of foreigners receiving treatment in a NHS hospital, is no switched to an accusation that the person calling out the hogwash claims believes the stereotypes?!

 

Once again, reference to MSM but no indication of what the alternative, presumably better, source is. 

 

 

"Once again, reference to MSM but no indication of what the alternative, presumably better, source is."

 

I prefer to read/listen to a variety of sources (including MSM), recognise the inherent bias, and then come to my own conclusions.  Admittedly, personal experience pays a large part towards my bs detector. 

[david555]

14 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Are you trying to start a war? Imagine if the South Koreans did that to the North Koreans. Remember, we've got nukes, the ROI hasn't!

 

Seriously though, yes, there would be customs officers on both sides of the border and probably a neutral zone between them.

Not starting a war , jus give them a little provocation to correct the border by putting one there so they can not blame only E.U. like they do now , they could best put one in the Irish sea ,and consider N.I. an oversea territory as so many others they have .

Problem solved … next one please as there are more ...

 

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, yogi100 said:

The Chinese sparrow issue has little or no bearing on the situation in Britain. Sparrows used to everywhere in the UK especially London where they were once said to chirp with a local accent, hence the term 'cockney sparrows'.

 

Those sparrows are now long gone along with their singing. They too have had their fill of immigration just like a lot of British ex pats have who are now settled abroad in places such as Spain, the PI and Thailand.

 

If rumours are to be believed many of our elderly ex pats in the LOS will soon be looking to return to to the land they once left. I for one will wish them the best of luck especially when it comes to housing and any associated social services.

 

At one time the over sixties used to be considered vulnerable and received priority when it came to accommodation. Now they can't house immigrants so what chance do you think a returning homeless Englishman with few friends or close family members will have.

 

The vast majority of rough sleepers in the shop doorways of London and other English towns and cities are native Britons.

"The Chinese sparrow issue has little or no bearing on the situation in Britain."

Of course it has, you just refuse to acknowledge it. The whole object of brexit was to get rid if the migrants without any regard for the consequences.

 

"If rumours are to be believed many of our elderly ex pats in the LOS will soon be looking to return to to the land they once left. I for one will wish them the best of luck especially when it comes to housing and any associated social services."

You would need to explain that one to everyone, why would expats have a problem with housing or anything else, is it some form of disease.

[sandyf]

2 hours ago, Loiner said:

Nothing wrong with cherry picking. We like cherries.
For thousands of years we have taken the best or the things we like and developed them, then discarded the rest. This applies to everything - animals, agriculture, horticulture, social cultures. Why do you think we can’t cherry pick in this case just because the EU says so? Is it the domination thing you quite like?

So you pick freedom of movement for the Irish border and unpick it for Calais, certainly a different approach.

[DannyCarlton]

11 minutes ago, david555 said:

Not starting a war , jus give them a little provocation to correct the border by putting one there so they can not blame only E.U. like they do now , they could best put one in the Irish sea ,and consider N.I. an oversea territory as so many others they have .

Problem solved … next one please as there are more ...

 

Depends where exactly they put the border in the Irish sea. Which side would the Isle of Man be on? I don't want my kippers taxed under WTO rules.

[RuamRudy]

45 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

Why are so many British people in Britain not working then?

Myriad reasons, I would suggest, but little to do with competition, upon which our free market economy thrives. 

[dick dasterdly]

21 minutes ago, david555 said:

"EU citizens that are in the UK can however, either receive free treatment or pay a small annual amount to legitimately receive NHS treatment.  Again, if I understand correctly."

 

 

On top of that same " most " E.U. citizens can have straight full gov. treatment when even temporary go back their  Europe country 

Example ,me I have no payed back treatment from my E.U. country in Thailand , but no matter how long I bin out of my country ..at first step on my national ground I am full entitled to all my rights for treatment or other rights ,this based on my nationality I.D. card 

 

So far that bad selfish E.U. , also no frozen pensions but yearly upgraded with living costs , even I live in Thailand , when marriage example with Thai , upgraded with 25 % ….oh bad E,U. country  isn't it ????

I wouldn't disagree that UK govts. have proven themselves to be far worse than the govts. in most other Northern EU countries .

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

If living in the UK, so entitled to NHS services, they are paying in.

 

It really is easy: living in the UK you're entitled to NHS, if not living there but still using the services you're abusing the system.

You need to be careful with the wording, it is about residency rather than presence. If you satisfy the residency requirements, which vary a bit depending on circumstances, then there is no abuse.

There tends to be a bit of confusion between expats and foreign nationals who are subject to visa status as opposed to residency.

[johnnybangkok]

3 hours ago, yogi100 said:

Anyone from anywhere who can get to the EU can eventually get an EU passport. At present that means they can come to the UK and avail themselves of everything that's on offer.

I've 'debated' with you before Yogi when you tried to insist that London was 'now the crime capital of Europe and one that has more fatal stabbing incidents than New York, Chicago and Detroit combined', a blatant untruth that followed you constantly referencing the mayor of London, Sadiq Khan as the 'Muslim Mayor of London' and the then Home Secretary the 'Muslim Home Secretary', revealing both your Islamophobia and your xenophobia.

This apocalyptic version of London, filled with Johnny Foreigners taking the jobs and the housing off the plucky Cockney Sparrow is so far from the truth as to be ridiculous and is just another excuse to blame others for what is very obviously your own self-inflicted problems. Your prejudice is there for all to see and gives the few Brexiters who are not racist, Islamophobic, xenophobes (I'm sure there must be a few) a really bad name.

And before you again bring up your favorite reply of 'where do you live......you don't know London', may I again remind you I lived in London for 25 years, in places such as Croydon, East Ham, Brixton, and Whitechapel (where I still own an apartment) and I simply don't recognise the London you are trying to describe here because, well, it doesn't exist. You're just trying desperately to prove what can clearly be seen as right wing views with ill thought out rhetoric and cherry picked news.     

[RuamRudy]

30 minutes ago, <deleted> dasterdly said:

"The Poles don't bring prosperity to British working men, they put 'em on benefits that the rest of us have to pay for, that's not prosperity."

 

???? Or (for those employers that follow the rules), allow them to keep wages as low as possible.

Minimum wages are set by the government - the same low wages that help supplement your grocery bills, the price for the services you receive etc. etc. I am all for fair wages for a fair day's work, but that doesn't come for free. 

[juice777]

"generations of my people have lived for thousands of years."

Assuming you are white thats probably a mix of all European nations Jewish and maybe a bit of African ever had your DNA tested?

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Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

[Jip99]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

Sure, but complaining about health tourism or other forms of NHS abuse would be hypocritical.

 

 

Then best I don’t complain about it then........ so far I haven’t.

[gearbox]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

 

I really don't understand how supporting an Australian style points based system can be deemed as "spiteful", "cruel" and "xenophobic". You can't argue against the real arguments so you create a Straw Man argument and attack that instead. I'm surprised you didn't call me racist as well but since I've said many times that I'd prefer a Doctor/Nurse from India/Africa than an unskilled worker from France/Germany then I guess that tag would be pushing it, even for you.

 

The country needs to decide what skills it needs and then attract the people to fill those roles. Irrespective of the country in the passport. If you deem that cruel and xenophobic then I'd politely suggest you are becoming somewhat hysterical. If you don't meet the criteria for staying, you cannot stay. That's how pretty much every country in the world controls their immigration including Thailand. It's been very successful in Australia which has become a vibrant multi-cultural country. But then they don't just let anyone in based on a trading relationship they signed up to 40 years ago that morphed into something else without consulting the electorate.

The Australian point based system? Hmm, good luck with that. Have you seen the AUD exchange rate? Our immigration system is just an entry point into the property based Ponzi economy. Stop the immigration and the house of cards goes down. In the end many of the highly qualified entrants eventually become taxi drivers or property renovators and flippers. You can renovate and sell your own property tax free, and then in the end can ride the OAP with little or without any contributions. 

[stevenl]

51 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

OK. Well that could be a lenghtly debate and not for this thread, but I can assure you that I actually am entitled to free treatment in the UK.

 

All that is required is to have an address in the UK (I have), a British passport (I have) and to declare, when you return that you are relocating to the UK. With this, you can register with a GP and you're in. You only actually need to have secured that address the day before you register with the doctor.

 

 

No, not a lengthy debate, because that means, provided you are telling the truth and are relocating, you are legally entitled.

 

But why oh why pretending the situation is different and not giving the complete situation straight away is beyond me.

Edited August 21, 2019 by stevenl

[juice777]

Why are so many British people in Britain not working then?

I thought it was at an all-time low herd it went up slightly last week I am going to guess and say because of Brexit but I don't know for sure. I was in Thailand for 4 years when returning I got a job after one phone call, quit that job after 3 months and spent the morning's job hunting and the afternoons drinking for one week why I looked for something with the hours and area I wanted to work ,within that week I got offered about 20 jobs chose one I liked the sound of quit it after 3 months returned to Asia and am now going back in 2 days and I have a job before I have even landed, reminds me of when my Dad use to say "when I was a young man you could walk out of one place walk across the Road and ask for a job there" Lets see what happens after Brexit.

 

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[DannyCarlton]

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

No, not a lengthy debate, because that means, provided you are telling the truth and are relocating, you are legally entitled.

 

But why oh why pretending the situation is different and not giving the complete situation straight away is beyond me.

What is the truth? Tell them that you are relocating and then change your mind when your treatment is finished. An expat is allowed to change his mind you know.

[dick dasterdly]

35 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Minimum wages are set by the government - the same low wages that help supplement your grocery bills, the price for the services you receive etc. etc. I am all for fair wages for a fair day's work, but that doesn't come for free. 

We are 'coming at this' from different angles.  There is something very wrong when the wages/salaries of so many need to be topped up by the govt. IMO.  (Which doesn't equate with "fair wages for a fair day's work")

 

It used to be the case (when I first started working) that we were paid very little as we had no experience/knowledge etc., but were able to work our way up into better paid positions that paid more (and frequently far more) than a living wage/salary.

 

Things changed substantially over the next decade or so, and 're-structuring' ensured that the experienced being paid a living wage were relatively quickly replaced by far younger, inexperienced people on far lower wages/salaries....  Which is why we've all been complaining about the appalling 'customer service' provided for a long time now!  Of course it depends on one's opinion as to whether this is a price worth paying.

 

Of course this is mostly due to govt. policies/globalism/financial interests (obviously only scratching the surface here) etc. etc. - but allowing an influx of people from far poorer countries into far wealthier countries could clearly only exacerbate the problem!  But it works very well for the wealthy.....

Edited August 21, 2019 by dick dasterdly

[JonnyF]

25 minutes ago, gearbox said:

The Australian point based system? Hmm, good luck with that. Have you seen the AUD exchange rate? Our immigration system is just an entry point into the property based Ponzi economy. Stop the immigration and the house of cards goes down. In the end many of the highly qualified entrants eventually become taxi drivers or property renovators and flippers. You can renovate and sell your own property tax free, and then in the end can ride the OAP with little or without any contributions. 

Well if you don't like it you can lobby the Australian government to join the EU. It only costs a few Billion per year to be in the club and then you can let them control all your trade and no need to worry about your points system after that since they will simply let anyone from those 27 countries into Australia to work for as long as they like.

 

Sound good?

[DannyCarlton]

15 minutes ago, stevenl said:

But why oh why pretending the situation is different and not giving the complete situation straight away is beyond me.

OK. Try this one. Why is it that Brits living in Spain get the annual rise on their state pensions but Brits living in Thailand don't. Where's the logic in that? And, post Brexit, will Brits in Spain still get their annual pension rise? Also, I get the annual rise to my company pension no matter where I live. What's all that about?

[Bluespunk]

5 hours ago, Thingamabob said:

Owen is a compulsive liar, and a paid hack at the institute. Not worth the time of day.

 

Replace the first word of the first sentence with johnson and we agree. 

[transam]

1 minute ago, DannyCarlton said:

OK. Try this one. Why is it that Brits living in Spain get the annual rise on their state pensions but Brits living in Thailand don't. Where's the logic in that? And, post Brexit, will Brits in Spain still get their annual pension rise? Also, I get the annual rise to my company pension no matter where I live. What's all that about?

Reciprocal agreements. All EU countries are in it, if Turkey joins the EU you are OK there too.

[brewsterbudgen]

OK. Try this one. Why is it that Brits living in Spain get the annual rise on their state pensions but Brits living in Thailand don't. Where's the logic in that? And, post Brexit, will Brits in Spain still get their annual pension rise? Also, I get the annual rise to my company pension no matter where I live. What's all that about?

Not to mention that Brits retired in the Philippines or USA get annual rises, but not Australia or Canada!

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[stephenterry]

To be honest, brexit has been a disaster. Anyone  - Leavers or Remainers -  who thinks differently is not living in the reality that britain is <deleted>.. 

[david555]

13 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

OK. Try this one. Why is it that Brits living in Spain get the annual rise on their state pensions but Brits living in Thailand don't. Where's the logic in that? And, post Brexit, will Brits in Spain still get their annual pension rise? Also, I get the annual rise to my company pension no matter where I live. What's all that about?

I think because it is E.Union and for the moment U.K. still in , but could change from U.K. side if they wish to save GBP's …, same for medical bills or access to local E.U. health system ….all this could change , also a part of "this for that" game ….. before under P.M. May they had an understanding about this all for those both groups in U.K. and E.U. but Boris treats could easily make change that reciprocal

Edited August 21, 2019 by david555

[stephenterry]

Time and time again I have asked how leaving the EU would benefit the man in the street? So far zilch. Because it wouldn't. Not in my lifetime, anyway. All I get is c*nts spewing out leaving is the best thing since sliced bread

 

Bring on a GE ASAP.

[mrfill]

1 hour ago, DannyCarlton said:

Depends where exactly they put the border in the Irish sea. Which side would the Isle of Man be on? I don't want my kippers taxed under WTO rules.

The Manx situation is interesting as they are neither in the UK nor the EU. They are in the Common Travel Area but EU citizens are theoretically not allowed to work without a permit. However, I'm sure the Tynwald will sort things out and keep the dodgy money flowing in vast uninterrupted amounts...

[RuamRudy]

34 minutes ago, <deleted> dasterdly said:

We are 'coming at this' from different angles.  There is something very wrong when the wages/salaries of so many need to be topped up by the govt. IMO.  (Which doesn't equate with "fair wages for a fair day's work")

 

It used to be the case (when I first started working) that we were paid very little as we had no experience/knowledge etc., but were able to work our way up into better paid positions that paid more (and frequently far more) than a living wage/salary.

 

Things changed substantially over the next decade or so, and 're-structuring' ensured that the experienced being paid a living wage were relatively quickly replaced by far younger, inexperienced people on far lower wages/salaries....  Which is why we've all been complaining about the appalling 'customer service' provided for a long time now!  Of course it depends on one's opinion as to whether this is a price worth paying.

 

Of course this is mostly due to govt. policies/globalism/financial interests (obviously only scratching the surface here) etc. etc. - but allowing an influx of people from far poorer countries into far wealthier countries could clearly only exacerbate the problem!  But it works very well for the wealthy.....

I think we are not a million miles apart on most of your points with the exception of immigrants exacerbating the situation. The government put in place the regulations that enables companies to exploit workers - today the BBC is reporting that "UK bosses earn 117 times average worker despite pay cut". This situation has not arisen by accident. 

 

 

[stephenterry]

Oh, and I'm going to continue even if I get a rest from posting.

 

i'm going to name Loiner as being the - well I won't go on, because his stance is typical of a single minded poster that doesn't live in reality.

 

For Buddha's sake the pound is sinking every day as a no deal day draws nearer. i'm probably not the only one who realises that Brexit is bad for the UK.  

 

When will sanity return? When a new government chucks Brexit in the garbage.

[gearbox]

31 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Well if you don't like it you can lobby the Australian government to join the EU. It only costs a few Billion per year to be in the club and then you can let them control all your trade and no need to worry about your points system after that since they will simply let anyone from those 27 countries into Australia to work for as long as they like.

 

Sound good?

What our immigration system has to do with EU? I think the suggestion is that UK implements similar system after Brexit right? I think it would be needed - same Ponzi housing based economy. Throw in extra Russian and Arab oligarchs, African war crime figures etc to help the luxury property sector.