TM30: The form getting expats in Thailand into a bureaucratic tangle

[Globe Trotter]

10 hours ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

No joke, receipt of the username/password has been quoted at anywhere between 2 days and 11 weeks.

wow, 11 weeks.. Thai style internet account. 

[rabas]

27 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. Some Thais spend far more than you will see in your entire life. 

A few thousand expats spend so little in the grand scheme of things that they are ignored as a source of income, except by the families that live off them.

Millions of Chinese tourists outspend western expats by billions of baht a year.

Is this claim true?

 

There is no Western expat Immigration category, however, there are about 250,000 Western expats living on an average of 90K/month. A recent TV thread claimed only 25% lived on 45K or less.  That's  270 billion baht/year spending.

 

There are about 10M Chinese tourists who stay an average of about 8 days per trip. Total Chinese spending in 2017 was  about 450 billion baht. Chinese tourism has been declining.

 

So, FALSE!

 

http://www.thaiwebsites.com/tourism-income-Thailand.asp

 

 

Edited August 30, 2019 by rabas

[jonclark]

44 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I've always done TM 30 when I had to. I fail to see why it is so offensive, unless people choose to be offended by minor <deleted> in their life.

No one forced any of us to live in Thailand and it's always been the case long as I visited/lived there. No one can claim ignorance of the law as an excuse.

Seems to me that this is the proverbial storm in the proverbial teacup, and much ado about nothing ( serious ).

Fine, if you fail to see it as offensive, I respect you PoV.

 

But I find it offensive as a tax paying resident of this country to be expected to report myself whenever I leave the province under the excuse of 'national security'. If there was a genuine reason for it I might be less offended. If residents are viewed as a 'national security' issue, why the hell are they being given visa extensions and in my case being allowed to adopt a Thai child after passing numerous RTP & home country police checks? 

 

In a nutshell if foreign residents are granted the right to work and / or a long term visa in Thailand and have passed police checks then they clearly are not a 'national security' issue. 

 

The fact of reporting is not the issue, it is the reasoning behind the issue that is deeply offensive - or do you like being labelled national security issue due to the simple fact your passport is different? 

[Pattaya46]

1 hour ago, watcharacters said:

They can always know where you are by pinging your phone.    

For that they would need to know your mobile number.

They often ask for a number on forms; just put your fixed line number... 

Edited August 30, 2019 by Pattaya46

[jonclark]

1 hour ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

If the stated reasoning to strengthen National security is sincere, they could simply make TM 30 filing mandatory for anyone living in Thailand with any criminal conviction, be they foreign or Thai.

 

This would leave law abiding citizens and foreign nationals, free from this bizarre, malfunctioning, and quite frankly, pointless reporting system; a directive to file could simply be automatically added at any court conviction, and applied retrospectively to anyone already convicted.

Well said. 

[zydeco]

17 hours ago, Russell17au said:

Would the US change its immigration laws to suit a couple of thousand immigrants?

Haha. The US practically has no immigration law. Once you're in, legally or illegally, basically you're home free. And if by chance you are caught and the sanctuary city doesn't let you out of jail, then you have lots of taxpayer funded law firms to defend you from deportation for your burglary, drunk driving, manslaughter, murder, drug running, identity theft, etc.

[brianthainess]

On 8/29/2019 at 9:24 AM, 3421abc said:

Great BBC picked up this story. Hopefully other news outlets will report as well. This should be an embarrassment for Thailand if they ever want to be a modern international country this kind of law only going against it.

Tomorrows news, BBC offices in BK raided for giving Thailand a bad name.

[Jumbo1968]

14 minutes ago, jonclark said:

Well said. 

Don’t Visas applied for at the Thai Embassy in London require a Criminal Background Check, CRB ? 

[zydeco]

17 hours ago, newnative said:

   Someone (not me) who lives in Pattaya is going to visit his relatives in Bangkok this weekend.  Someone (not me) will leave Friday and come back to Pattaya on Sunday or Monday.  Someone (not me) will be staying at his relative's house while he is in Bangkok.  Someone (not me) will not be filing a TM30 when he returns to Pattaya.  Someone (not me) is pretty sure there will not be a fine to pay in his future for not reporting this trip.

And someone (not you) may find himself in hot water along with his relatives after a neighbor turns you all in to immigration for the reward money.

[brianthainess]

On 8/29/2019 at 10:02 AM, 300sd said:

You want to get hold of us. Phone us, email us-you have our numbers. You get them every time we come to see you. And it is too often in my opinion.

 

You want to treat us like criminals! No thank you I have better things to do. And better places to spend my retirement funds.

They also have our bank details.

[madmen]

1 minute ago, zydeco said:

And someone (not you) may find himself in hot water along with his relatives after a neighbor turns you all in to immigration for the reward money.

What is wrong with you?

[CMNightRider]

If the TM30 wasn't such a bureacratic nightmare for expats living in Thailand, there would never be so many expats commenting negatively about it.  Maybe immigration should consider either evicting all westerners from Thailand, or get with the program and start treating these people like western countries treat Thai citizens when they live in western countries.

 

I see a couple of Thai posters acting as though they are westerners making silly comments about how easy the TM forms are to abide by.   What really astounds me are the western apologists that post repeated comments about how great Thai Immigration is, and how easy it is to do 90 day reporting, the constant once a year visa extensions, and now the TM30 reporting.  Where on earth do these people come from?

 

 

 

Edited August 30, 2019 by CMNightRider

[Jumbo1968]

10 minutes ago, zydeco said:

Haha. The US practically has no immigration law. Once you're in, legally or illegally, basically you're home free. And if by chance you are caught and the sanctuary city doesn't let you out of jail, then you have lots of taxpayer funded law firms to defend you from deportation for your burglary, drunk driving, manslaughter, murder, drug running, identity theft, etc.

No different from the U.K., you try and deport them and they appeal, takes years and they just ‘disappear’

[NoComment]

If this helps to stop terrorism I am in favour.

The Kingdom is a wonderful place and anything that helps with the safety of everyone has to be a priority, doesn't it?

Some will continue to whine and wail to no avail. It is just simply a case of "wipe your mouth" and get on with it because whining and wailing achieves nothing.

[zhounan]

I think It will never be abolished because its a source of income and paperwork let many employees to work there.

Billions of Baht every year...and probably will be implemented more regulations for expat. Guys, this is the Era of (false)Refugees, you should know. 

Expat should finally open their eyes and acquire consciousness that is time to change destination and let know more people as possible what Thailand is become. 

[Jumbo1968]

4 minutes ago, NoComment said:

If this helps to stop terrorism I am in favour.

The Kingdom is a wonderful place and anything that helps with the safety of everyone has to be a priority, doesn't it?

Some will continue to whine and wail to no avail. It is just simply a case of "wipe your mouth" and get on with it because whining and wailing achieves nothing.

I can’t recall a foreigner ever being involved in Terrorism in Thailand and if they were for what reason ?

 

[brianthainess]

23 hours ago, wgdanson said:

Please tell me how to get the Section 38 app on my PC. I got it on my phone but PC is easier for me to see. Thanks.

If you haven't left Thailand since 2013 then you can not. i can not use a "smart" phone either due to deformed fingers.

[jonclark]

8 minutes ago, NoComment said:

If this helps to stop terrorism I am in favour.

The Kingdom is a wonderful place and anything that helps with the safety of everyone has to be a priority, doesn't it?

Some will continue to whine and wail to no avail. It is just simply a case of "wipe your mouth" and get on with it because whining and wailing achieves nothing.

Please explain how this stops terrorism. 

 

Almost all terrorist activity in Thailand is domestic - With the vast majority thankfully limited to the southern most provinces. The recent bombings in Bangkok a couple of week ago were not undertaken by a couple of tourist who were showing their displeasure at the two tier pricing. It was carried out by Thai nationals

 

The TM30 is a reactive system (not pro-active) meaning that if a foreigner came to Thailand and carried out a terrorist activity..authorities would only know their location..after the event at best. That does not make me feel safe. From what i know terrorists do not signpost their location to the authorities in the lead up to an attack, they tend to keep their heads down and not leave a paper trail either physically or electronically. 

[CMNightRider]

51 minutes ago, NoComment said:

If this helps to stop terrorism I am in favour.

The Kingdom is a wonderful place and anything that helps with the safety of everyone has to be a priority, doesn't it?

Some will continue to whine and wail to no avail. It is just simply a case of "wipe your mouth" and get on with it because whining and wailing achieves nothing.

Since you are Thai, you are not affected with this added burden on the expat community.  If you ever have an opportunity to visit a western country, you will see a big difference in the way you are treated compaired to the way Thai Immigration treats westerners in Thailand.

[KKr]

On 8/29/2019 at 9:38 AM, GraThai said:

I totally agree that TM30 is an outdated law however I have lived here in Thailand for 30+  years and try to abide by all the rules including this one. Every time I return home from a trip she fills in the form pops into immigration and its done so what is the massive problem...unless of course people have something to hide?????

alternatively, if the missus checks in at the hotel, no-one will know you have left home .....
thinking about that, I wonder what will happen if one indeed does that AND files an TM30 ?

Overall, I think this rule would qualify for the "barking up the wrong tree" category,
especially where registered long-termers with permanent addresses are concerned.

Why not simply exclude pink card holders from this occupational therapy exercise as both Immigration and PuJai Baan and witness have checked the person out already.
(and possibly the taxpayers with an existing and true place of work as well ?)

Edited August 30, 2019 by KKr

[Humpy]

So if I spend 23 hrs and 45 min away then that's OK is it ?

[Maurice The Rooster]

Hi everyone,
I think it would be more simple and effective to place all foreigners staying in Thailand under electronic surveillance. Everything would work in real time and without unnecessary paperwork. Personally, I am in favour of this solution. An ankle bracelet with battery replacement every 90 days at the nearest immigration office and that's it.

[Mike Teavee]

28 minutes ago, Humpy said:

So if I spend 23 hrs and 45 min away then that's OK is it ?

On a similar note, I arrive in Thailand on a Friday evening & leave 1st thing on a Monday morning, how am I supposed to report at CW during that time?

 

(Though I note in a different thread that CM has started opening at the weekends/Public Holidays for TM30 reporting).

 

[soi3eddie]

On 8/29/2019 at 3:38 AM, GraThai said:

I totally agree that TM30 is an outdated law however I have lived here in Thailand for 30+  years and try to abide by all the rules including this one. Every time I return home from a trip she fills in the form pops into immigration and its done so what is the massive problem...unless of course people have something to hide?????

Yes, maybe simple for you but if you live in Bangkok it's at least 1 hour each way to Chaeng Watthana and 30 minutes to 4 hours waiting for your queue number to be called. Waste of almost a full day every time. 

[DrTuner]

I wonder when they start demanding all copies needed for TM30 must be notarized. Or pay a "fine" straight to the IO. Would fit the usual immigration milking office MO, just make <deleted> up until you find the cash cow.

[Duck J Butters]

On 8/29/2019 at 9:33 AM, mania said:

We no longer live in Thailand & visiting 2-3 months a year on a Type O I get for $80 here at local Thai Consulate seems just fine without any reporting etc etc

I really enjoy the 3 months

 

But every time I read about this TM30 I just shake my head.,,,

 

What I cannot figure out is do they not see it as a slight against all their other processing of long stay visa 1 year extensions & 90 day reports?

 

I mean they supposedly vetted you when they gave you a 1 year permission to stay. Are they now doubting their own immigration office skills?

Even with the 90 day check backup?

 

If as they say it is to keep track of criminals does that mean they gave criminals 1 year visas?

 

Lastly if it is to keep track of criminals take a look at who has filled Thai Jails...It is not mainly foreigners it is Thai's so maybe better

start forcing all Thai's to submit a TM30 whenever they go traveling eh?

 

Oh they wouldn't dare would they? ???? Maybe that is why they are buying all the new armored vehicles ????

 

It’s definitely not to keep track of criminals. It mainly seems like a way to extort more money from expats. I also don’t think the wealthier hi-so Thais like expats and are intentionally trying to push as any as they can out of the country. I do believe that Thais in general look down on most expats as tax evaders that are taking advantage of an economic situation by not living in their own home countries which are far more expensive. It must bother Thais that Farangs can earn 10x to 1000x as much as them in their homeland and then easily move to Thailand and live like kings, sultans, and viceroys.
 

Just imagine the reverse scenario? Imagine you are living in California, USA and you have all these wealthy Chinese flooding to your country, buying up all the best real estate, driving the cost of homes through the roof to the point where most California locals can no longer afford to Iive in the very state they were born in. This very situation is happening in California right now and has happened to many of my friends in California, many being forced to relocate to cheaper states like Texas. There is a general disdain for wealthy Chinese and Asians in America today. The disdain comes from the fact that you have crazy rich Asians that got rich by taking advantage of the West, stealing from the West, counterfeiting our products, and living in countries that have a lack of ethical regulation which has given them an unfair advantage. Is it fair to let Chinese come to America with all their dark money and drive up the cost of everything on regular Americans, when such corruption and swindling would land a regular American in the slammer? Doesn’t seem fair or right does it? I would imagine Thais feel very similar to Americans. It’s a matter of fairness.
 

Take Phuket for example: it’s all super rich Europeans, Russians and Americans. A Thai from another part of Thailand couldn’t dream of ever retiring to Phuket. Most likely, it would be too expensive for them to even visit Phuket just once in their lifetime. Versus for me, Phuket is so ridiculously cheap that it’s a joke. I earn about 1000x what your average Thai earns and I’m only in my 30S. Is that fair?
 

Fair or not, don’t expect Thais to be happy about foreigners like myself coming in and buying up all their best land. Because that is precisely what has happened in Phuket. The average networth of Farangs in Phuket is probably $100 million US which makes even the hi-so Thais look poor. 

[DrTuner]

49 minutes ago, Maurice The Rooster said:

An ankle bracelet with battery replacement every 90 days at the nearest immigration office and that's it.

No need for such high tech. Just use an ankle iron and fix the other side of the chain to the bathroom wall. Remember to give the farang a laptop so he can move more money in. Welcome to Thailaannn!!

[KenKadz]

Be Careful What You Wish For!

People making all this noise about the TM-30 might get more "results" than they want, while making life (rules & reg.s) more difficult for the rest of us who have made Thailand our home.

This is Thailand - It is the Thai Government/Immigration's House - They make the Rules!

If a person is unhappy with the Rules they need to consider going some place where the rules are more comfortable for them.

[DrTuner]

1 minute ago, KenKadz said:

Be Careful What You Wish For!

People making all this noise about the TM-30 might get more "results" than they want, while making life (rules & reg.s) more difficult for the rest of us who have made Thailand our home.

This is Thailand - It is the Thai Government/Immigration's House - They make the Rules!

If a person is unhappy with the Rules they need to consider going some place where the rules are more comfortable for them.

There's a bit of a contradiction there. Since you're comfortable with any rules Thais want to set, why worry about them setting new ones. It's just for national security and your wellbeing, of course.

[Huckenfell]

On 8/29/2019 at 9:24 AM, 3421abc said:

Great BBC picked up this story. Hopefully other news outlets will report as well. This should be an embarrassment for Thailand if they ever want to be a modern international country this kind of law only going against it.

They don't really want us.