Opponents of 'no-deal' Brexit defeat PM Johnson, who promises an election

[webfact]

Opponents of 'no-deal' Brexit defeat PM Johnson, who promises an election

By Elizabeth Piper, Kylie MacLellan and William James

 

Britain's Prime Minister Boris Johnson speaks after the announcement of the result of the vote in the Parliament in London, Britain, Spetember 3, 2019, in this still image taken from Parliament TV footage. Parliament TV via REUTERS

 

LONDON (Reuters) - A cross-party alliance defeated Boris Johnson in parliament on Tuesday in a bid to prevent him taking Britain out of the EU without a divorce agreement - prompting the prime minister to announce that he would immediately push for a snap election.

 

Lawmakers voted by 328 to 301 for a motion put forward by opposition parties and rebel lawmakers in Johnson's party - who had been warned they would be kicked out of the Conservative Party if they defied the government.

 

More than three years after the United Kingdom voted in a referendum to leave the European Union, the defeat leaves the course of Brexit unresolved, with possible outcomes still ranging from a turbulent 'no-deal' exit to abandoning the whole endeavour.

 

Tuesday's victory is the first hurdle for lawmakers who, having succeeded in taking control of parliamentary business, will on Wednesday seek to pass a law forcing Johnson to ask the EU to delay Brexit until Jan. 31 unless he has a deal approved by parliament beforehand on the terms and manner of the exit.

 

The Conservative party no longer has a majority in UK parliament after an MP defected, hours before a major Brexit vote in the House of Commons. Sam Holder reports.

 

The Conservative rebels who now face expulsion from the party included Nicholas Soames, the grandson of Britain's World War Two leader Winston Churchill, and two former finance ministers - Philip Hammond and Kenneth Clarke.

 

"I don't want an election, but if MPs vote tomorrow to stop negotiations and compel another pointless delay to Brexit, potentially for years, then that would be the only way to resolve this," Johnson told parliament after the vote.

 

"I can confirm that we are tonight tabling a motion under the Fixed Term Parliament Act."

 

Britain's Prime Minister Boris Johnson speaks after the announcement of the result of the vote in the Parliament in London, Britain, Spetember 3, 2019, in this still image taken from Parliament TV footage. Parliament TV via REUTERS

 

In an historic showdown between prime minister and parliament, Johnson's opponents said they wanted to prevent him playing Russian roulette with a country once touted as a confident pillar of Western economic and political stability.

 

They argue that nothing can justify the risk of a 'no-deal' Brexit that would cut economic ties overnight with Britain's biggest export market and inevitably bring huge economic disruption.

 

ELECTION LOOMS

Johnson cast the challenge as an attempt to force Britain to surrender to the EU just as he hopes to secure concessions on the terms of the divorce, helped by the threat to walk out without one. Ahead of the vote, he said would never accept another delay to Brexit beyond Oct. 31.

 

Johnson's government will now seek to hold a vote on Wednesday to approve an early election, most likely to be held on Oct. 14. An election would pit the avowed Brexiteer against Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, a veteran socialist.

 

In the eye of the Brexit maelstrom, though, it was unclear whether opposition parties would support such a move - which requires the support of two-thirds of the 650-seat House of Commons.

 

Corbyn has long demanded an election as the best way out of the crisis, but many of those seeking to prevent a 'no-deal'Brexit say Johnson could time the poll to ensure that parliament cannot prevent an Oct. 31 departure - with or without a deal.

 

After the vote, Corbyn told Johnson that he must get the Brexit delay bill that will be discussed on Wednesday passed before trying to call an election.

 

The 2016 Brexit referendum showed a United Kingdom divided about much more than the European Union, and has fuelled soul-searching about everything from secession and immigration to capitalism, empire and modern Britishness.

 

It has also triggered civil war inside both of Britain's main political parties as dozens of lawmakers put what they see as the United Kingdom's fate above that of party loyalty.

 

Just as Johnson began speaking, he lost his working majority in parliament when one of his own Conservative lawmakers, Phillip Lee, crossed the floor of the House of Commons to join the pro-EU Liberal Democrats.

 

(Writing by Guy Faulconbridge; Additional reporting by Kate Holton, Elizabeth Piper and Michael Holden in London; Richard Lough in Paris, Padraic Halpin in Dublin, and Gabriela Baczynska in Brussels; Editing by Janet Lawrence, Kevin Liffey and Mark Heinrich)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-09-04

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[Basil B]

6 minutes ago, webfact said:

The Conservative rebels who now face expulsion from the party included Nicholas Soames, the grandson of Britain's World War Two leader Winston Churchill, and two former finance ministers - Philip Hammond and Kenneth Clarke.

21 MP's to lose the whip...

 

So even with the DUP the Tories are now 22 MP's short of a Majority,

 

Only Boris could inflict so much damage to the Tory party.???? 

Edited September 3, 2019 by Basil B

[welovesundaysatspace]

That was definitely a good start of the new Brexit season!

[Enoon]

"PM Johnson, who promises an election"

 

Assuming parliament allows one to take place:

 

"A motion for a general election is agreed by two thirds of the total number of seats in the Commons including vacant seats."

General elections - UK Parliament

 

If Parliament does not vote for one then Johnson remains......twisting on a skewer of impotence.......and Parliament sets the agenda.

 

And the opposition will probably vote in favour of the government if anyone calls a motion of no-confidence......which would have the same result.

 

It's beginning to look like checkmate.

 

 

Edited September 3, 2019 by Enoon

[welovesundaysatspace]

6 minutes ago, Basil B said:

21 MP's to lose the whip...

 

So even with the DUP the Tories are now 22 MP's short of a Majority,

 

Only Boris could inflict so much damage to the Tory party.???? 

They’re already backpedaling. Leadsom said those 21 MPs would get a second chance at the next vote. Does she really think anyone cares? 

[Basil B]

1 minute ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

That was definitely a good start of the new Brexit season!

That was definitely a good start for the new PM!????

[SheungWan]

They’re already backpedaling. Leadsom said those 21 MPs would get a second chance at the next vote. Does she really think anyone cares? 

Yes. There are repercussions. The number right now is sufficiently large to indicate that the threats have backfired. Cummings might want to double down, but there's egg on his face. Better back off. Hard Brexiteers don't do loyalty very well and haven't done so over the years.

Sent from my SM-N935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[AlexRich]

Boris Johnson single handedly destroys his own party ... instead of "taking back control" he completely loses control ... and his transparent ruse to force a General Election is likely to back fire badly ... he won't get that until "no deal" is off the table.

 

Rejoice, Rejoice, Rejoice!

 

 

[Basil B]

5 minutes ago, Enoon said:

"PM Johnson, who promises an election"

 

Assuming parliament allows one to take place:

 

"A motion for a general election is agreed by two thirds of the total number of seats in the Commons including vacant seats."

General elections - UK Parliament

 

If Parliament does not vote for one then Johnson remains......twisting on a skewer of impotence.......and Parliament sets the agenda.

 

 

As Corbyn put it, he can have his General Election when a No Deal Brexit has been stopped.

 

Seems BoJo has just dug a big hole for himself by stating tomorrow "he will call for a General Election", and he will be defeated on that too.

 

The Opposition benches getting very crowded...

  

[AlexRich]

14 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

They’re already backpedaling. Leadsom said those 21 MPs would get a second chance at the next vote. Does she really think anyone cares? 

It was confirmed shortly afterwards that they will in fact lose the whip. So "Poundland Churchill" has just sacked Churchill's grandson.

[Basil B]

The Tories who defied the whip some are big names who were not going to be bullied by the Whips, tomorrow probably more will follow them.

 

22 names on the list...

1. Philip Hammond
2. Greg Clark
3. David Lidington
4. Ken Clarke
5. David Guake
6. Stephen Hammond
7. Antoinette Sandback
8. Steve Brine
9. Ed Vaizey
10. Guto Bebb
11. Rory Stewart
12. Nick Soames
13. Dominic Grieve
14. Caroline Spelman
15. Oliver Lewin
16. Philip Lee
17. Sam Gmiyah
18. Richard Harrington
19. Alistair Burt
20. Justine Greening
21. Sarah Newton
22. Anne Milton

Obviously the Whips never got Philip Lees letter telling them he was resigning.

Edited September 3, 2019 by Basil B

[Chomper Higgot]

Great news for those who wanted Parliament back in control.

[Thailand]

The new curtains in number 10 coming down again.

 

Who was the pm with the shortest term?

[TopDeadSenter]

I fear London will soon make Hong Kong look tame. You can't just remove people's democracy because they chose a course unpopular with the elite and benefits brigade. If people are worried about their pensions converting badly to baht just wait until the molotov cocktails start flying. There has been ample chance to deliver Brexit. Due process, peace and democracy have failed the people, what comes next...?

[Sujo]

1 hour ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

They’re already backpedaling. Leadsom said those 21 MPs would get a second chance at the next vote. Does she really think anyone cares? 

Quite ironic they get a second vote.

[Rookiescot]

Well they did say we would be taking back control.

Embarrassing.

Get used to it.

[Blue Muton]

9 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

I fear London will soon make Hong Kong look tame. You can't just remove people's democracy because they chose a course unpopular with the elite and benefits brigade. If people are worried about their pensions converting badly to baht just wait until the molotov cocktails start flying. There has been ample chance to deliver Brexit. Due process, peace and democracy have failed the people, what comes next...?

What utter nonsense. Democracy was removed when electoral fraud took place. Democracy was removed when £6m appeared out of nowhere for the Leave.EU campaign, Democracy was removed with the £350m a week lie. Democracy was removed when Johnson attempted to muzzle parliament. Democracy was removed when Johnson became PM with no mandate from "the people". Democracy was removed when people claim that an advisory referendum was binding. Democracy was restored by the elected parliament took back control from the unelected PM.

[soalbundy]

13 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

I fear London will soon make Hong Kong look tame. You can't just remove people's democracy because they chose a course unpopular with the elite and benefits brigade. If people are worried about their pensions converting badly to baht just wait until the molotov cocktails start flying. There has been ample chance to deliver Brexit. Due process, peace and democracy have failed the people, what comes next...?

I disagree, this is democracy functioning as it should do, the democratically elected members of the house are fighting for what they see as the best way forward for the country in a legal way, different from the beer mat banging at the local pub by people (of both sides) who only have a limited view of the repercussions of their opinions. It is considered discussion over flag waving patriotism.

As for violence on the streets that was never the British way (not withstanding the knife stabbings), the French will dig up cobble stones and hurl them at the police, the British write letters to the 'Times'.

[sammieuk1]

Looks like Halloween's come early for Boris the country and me as this cycle of $hit continues???? 

[fishtank]

So refreshing to see MPs actually voting for the good of the country rather than their own careers.

Bye Bye bungling Boris.

[OneMoreFarang]

It's good to see that at least some conservative UK politicians still have a spine and stand up against the bully Boris, who wants to be just like Trump.

Now imagine if also some conservatives in the USA would develop a spine and stand up again Trump.

It's time that these want to be dictators learn that they are not alone in charge.

 

The constant lying and bullying must have an end. It time for constructive discussions between grownups. That is what people expect from their elected politicians.

[MarineEquine]

2 hours ago, Enoon said:

"PM Johnson, who promises an election"

 

Assuming parliament allows one to take place:

 

"A motion for a general election is agreed by two thirds of the total number of seats in the Commons including vacant seats."

General elections - UK Parliament

 

If Parliament does not vote for one then Johnson remains......twisting on a skewer of impotence.......and Parliament sets the agenda.

 

And the opposition will probably vote in favour of the government if anyone calls a motion of no-confidence......which would have the same result.

 

It's beginning to look like checkmate.

 

 

More like stalemate. 

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It's good to see that at least some conservative UK politicians still have a spine and stand up against the bully Boris, who wants to be just like Trump.

Now imagine if also some conservatives in the USA would develop a spine and stand up again Trump.

It's time that these want to be dictators learn that they are not alone in charge.

 

The constant lying and bullying must have an end. It time for constructive discussions between grownups. That is what people expect from their elected politicians.

Americans don't stand up against Trump, they are not individual thinkers. They are always forced to be team players.. individual thinking is not a thing that is good over there. That is at least the impression I get from documentaries and just reading on other forums. Seems to be a big thing to be loyal to the team and not deviate. (i could be wrong of course but that is just the feeling i get whenever i watch US documentaries and read stuff online)

[MarineEquine]

2 hours ago, Basil B said:

As Corbyn put it, he can have his General Election when a No Deal Brexit has been stopped.

 

Seems BoJo has just dug a big hole for himself by stating tomorrow "he will call for a General Election", and he will be defeated on that too.

 

The Opposition benches getting very crowded...

  

If there is a general election Labour will be annihilated. 

[zorrow424]

It was always Boris's wish for a GE,it was planned for. Even Blair admits its an elephant trap that Labour are entering,   Boris will win hands down

   October 31 is and will remain ND day,no changing that

[OneMoreFarang]

Just now, zorrow424 said:

It was always Boris's wish for a GE,it was planned for. Even Blair admits its an elephant trap that Labour are entering,   Boris will win hands down

   October 31 is and will remain ND day,no changing that

But Boris said at least a hundred times in the last weeka that he does not want a GE. Was he lying?

[zorrow424]

1 minute ago, OneMoreFarang said:

But Boris said at least a hundred times in the last weeka that he does not want a GE. Was he lying?

likes the easy way out,even the opposition will vote with the govt for no confidence vote...Boris is home and dry

 

[GalaxyMan]

3 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Was he lying?

That is what politicians do.

[JoePai]

I have realised the remoaners have been right all along when they say I did not know all the true facts before voting to leave, so I decided to do a little research.

I just voted to leave because I thought our sovereignty was being compromised by foreign unelected masters, and that we were compelled to have unlimited uncontrolled immigration, our laws and export agreements dictated by Brussels bureaucrats, and had to pay eye-watering amounts for the privilege.

I did not know more than 10,000 EU officials get paid more than our prime minister.

I did not know that unlike the UK, 18 countries get more back from the EU than they put in.

I did not know that the EU occupies over 45 buildings 2 of which were purpose built monuments of grandeur and are the largest buildings in Europe.

I did not know that the EU parliament spends 150million Euros a year moving to Strasbourg every month for 4 days committee meetings, any attempt to stop this stupidity is vetoed by France.

I did not know that the EU has had a huge luxury shopping Mall built in Brussels for the exclusive use of EU employees.

I did not know that every day queues of chauffeur driven cars with their engines running, wait outside EU establishments while their occupants go in, sign in for their attendance allowance and expenses, then come straight back out and are driven away.

I did not know that many of them (like the Kinnocks) end up as millionaires as a reward for looking the other way.

I did not know that Clegg was lying when he mocked Nigel Farage for saying that an EU army was being planned.

I did not know that the EU had been financing the mass movement of industries from UK to mainland Europe.

I could go on and on but suffice it to say that I have never for a moment doubted the correctness of my decision, I am so glad that the remoaners prompted me to look deeper into the bureaucratic absurdity of being in the EU.

[JonnyF]

19 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

But Boris said at least a hundred times in the last weeka that he does not want a GE. Was he lying?

He doesn't want one, but when Parliament is acting against the result of the democratic referendum there is a solid case to let the people decide (again!).

 

Funny how all the Remainers have been crying out for a second vote, and when they get their chance they don't want it because they know they'd get smashed at the polls and you'd end up with a massive Leave majority in Parliament.

 

The opposition are likely to vote against a General Election so they can keep their Remain Parliament and continue to frustrate the process for another couple of years. For Remainers complaining about the pound weakness, buckle in because these games are only making it worse and embarrass the UK political system even further.