Opponents of 'no-deal' Brexit defeat PM Johnson, who promises an election

[7by7]

2 hours ago, aright said:

18 hours ago, 7by7 said:

<snip>

So you tell us, why has Johnson gone to great lengths to prevent MPs discussing any plans he may have: proroguing Parliament, expelling MPs from the party, threatening deselection of Tory MPs, trying to call an election, instead of even starting talks with the EU?

It's called "Politics"

If you think about it you can think up a similar number of questions for Labour, Lib Dems and the SNP or the vast number of first world political parties.. 

Edited 2 hours ago by aright

Since the war, both Atlee and Major have prorogued Parliament; for different reasons.

 

But the mass expelling of party members etc.? No, I don't recall any UK party leader, let alone a Prime Minister, doing that.

 

Can you educate me and say who has done what in a similar vein?

[nauseus]

25 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

First you say you've answered my question, now you say you haven't because I've not asked it!

 

Never mind; consistency is something I long ago stopped expecting from many Brexiteers here!

Why don't you read my post again and reconsider your reply.

[nauseus]

16 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

 

That's odd, because earlier you said 

 Were those arguments not detailed, then?

 

No wonder I can't remember them if they were that disorganised!

If anything here is odd, it isn't me.

[beautifulthailand99]

Farage trashing Boris on LBC now - Cumming's and Farage loathe each other. If Boris doesn't get Brexit by 31st he's finished. 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7439635/Nigel-Farage-promises-Boris-Johnson-help-majority-100-MPs-election.html

 

The pair clashed repeatedly during the 2016 referendum when Mr Cummings ran Vote Leave and refused to join forces with Mr Farage's Leave.EU campaign.

Mr Cummings once claimed: 'Farage and the idiots around him came within a whisker of losing us the referendum.'

And in July, Mr Farage said of Mr Cummings: 'He thinks we're all cretins. He has never liked me.' 

[yogi100]

We keep hearing about 'a deal' or 'no deal'.

 

When we leave the EU will European nations stop selling us their wine, cars and agricultural produce and will we stop buying it. I for one very much doubt it.

 

Because when all is said and done such trade amounts to a huge amount of vital business. So we've obviously already got deals.

 

So what sort of a deal are the politicians on about. I'm sure such talk is just an excuse or a red herring introduced into the brew by remainers to hinder or stop our quitting the EU.

[stevenl]

36 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

We keep hearing about 'a deal' or 'no deal'.

 

When we leave the EU will European nations stop selling us their wine, cars and agricultural produce and will we stop buying it. I for one very much doubt it.

 

Because when all is said and done such trade amounts to a huge amount of vital business. So we've obviously already got deals.

 

So what sort of a deal are the politicians on about. I'm sure such talk is just an excuse or a red herring introduced into the brew by remainers to hinder or stop our quitting the EU.

In other words, you don't know but have a very steadfast opinion on it.

[sirineou]

43 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

We keep hearing about 'a deal' or 'no deal'.

 

When we leave the EU will European nations stop selling us their wine, cars and agricultural produce and will we stop buying it. I for one very much doubt it.

 

Because when all is said and done such trade amounts to a huge amount of vital business. So we've obviously already got deals.

 

So what sort of a deal are the politicians on about. I'm sure such talk is just an excuse or a red herring introduced into the brew by remainers to hinder or stop our quitting the EU.

The question is not if there will be trade, of course there will be trade.The question and issue is the conditions of such trade , the friction that such conditions will provide, and the cost of such friction.   

   With a deal brexit, some of these conditions would be agreed upon and contingencies installed, without a brexit deal all is unknown but one thing, supply chains will be disrupted.

   And that's only the economic front, There are social and political issues to consider.

Edited September 8, 2019 by sirineou

[beautifulthailand99]

All you no-dealers hoping the pound will come springing  back anytime soon better have funds to last a long long time. And your hero JRM is a very wealthy man and no financial fool he will be wealthy whatever happens as will Farage - off on his 100,000 dolLar after dinner speeches in the US will be laughing all the way to the bank. You will be long dead and impoverished if sterling remittances are your only income. Beware of what you wish for it may personally destroy you. Farage on LBC saying if Boris goes for an election after not delivering a clean deal Brexit after the 31st he will be destroyed. 

 

According to one of the most prominent Brexiters, Conservative MP Jacob Rees-Mogg, we should see the benefits of Brexit in about half a century. “We won’t know the full economic consequences for a very long time,” he said. “The overwhelming opportunity for Brexit is over the next 50 years.” So, not long to go now! Amid the overwhelming predictions that our exit from the EU – slated for 29 March – will be disastrous, others have been marginally more optimistic. Here are some of the leading Brexit cheerleaders’ forecasts for when Brexit will finally pay off.

Edited September 8, 2019 by beautifulthailand99

[johnnybangkok]

53 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

We keep hearing about 'a deal' or 'no deal'.

 

When we leave the EU will European nations stop selling us their wine, cars and agricultural produce and will we stop buying it. I for one very much doubt it.

 

Because when all is said and done such trade amounts to a huge amount of vital business. So we've obviously already got deals.

 

So what sort of a deal are the politicians on about. I'm sure such talk is just an excuse or a red herring introduced into the brew by remainers to hinder or stop our quitting the EU.

Typical Brexit fan; literally no idea of what happens but in their mind, it still can't be as bad as staying in the EU. 

Look up the information on the internet (it's not just there to rant on sites like this). Educate yourself to the huge tariffs UK exporters will face when reverting to WTO rules (there's no choice, they're automatic), investigate the cost of tariffs for importers, driving up prices in the UK, see how long the delays for importing/exporting are going to be and find out how long it typically takes to get a trade deal properly sorted out (especially now they have to do it with EVERY single country) and then you might start to understand why many of our Remain fans are so concerned and why we reject Brexiters calling it Project Fear. It's Project Reality.

It's been a long time coming but welcome to the party.  

 

 

[aright]

46 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Since the war, both Atlee and Major have prorogued Parliament; for different reasons.

 

But the mass expelling of party members etc.? No, I don't recall any UK party leader, let alone a Prime Minister, doing that.

 

Can you educate me and say who has done what in a similar vein?

What part of "It's called politics" don't you understand? Of course I can't give you an example of the mass expulsion of party members before...it hasn't happened ……….....On what grounds do you feel that should be precluded now though? What have these disingenuous people achieved in over 3 years?

The EU is now in collusion with the Remainers in Parliament to replace the U.K. government without a General Election with their plan for a Government of National “Remain” Unity.

They succeeded in Italy and Greece.

They must not succeed in the U.K. it would be shameful!

What the Government rebels don't understand is that, in taking away the Government's will they are killing the one positive, hopeful, development to have appeared on the scene since the Referendum. The majority of MP's are for Remain, to them, what the British People want is unimportant. They have sacrificed our independence on the altar of do nothing, just try to get in the way...…....a gross act of stupidity. Good Riddance!

Looking at many of your posts, I am not sure I can educate you about anything but I will ask you 2 questions.

How often in the history of British Politics have the Leaders of the main opposition parties refused an opportunity for a General Election?

It wouldn't be Politics would it?

 

 

[Aforek]

We know that in 100 years, Brexit will be still here; today, France ( foreign affair minister ) told " no extension after oct 31th " if Britain has no other proposition ( and we know that their propositions are inacceptable for EU ), so, it's better to finish everything on october 31 th with "no deal"

and we can speak of something else... 

[Loiner]

1 hour ago, yogi100 said:

We keep hearing about 'a deal' or 'no deal'.

 

When we leave the EU will European nations stop selling us their wine, cars and agricultural produce and will we stop buying it. I for one very much doubt it.

 

Because when all is said and done such trade amounts to a huge amount of vital business. So we've obviously already got deals.

 

So what sort of a deal are the politicians on about. I'm sure such talk is just an excuse or a red herring introduced into the brew by remainers to hinder or stop our quitting the EU.

The politicians are still talking about the stitch up deal, that Merkel/May tried to force on us. The EU says they won't start trade deal discussions until we have left. The Remainers are still trying now, even after most of them kicked it out of parliament three times, to stitch us up with the pre-deal. What is up with these people - have they only recently realised what they did?

Without the Merkel/May Surrender Treaty shackling us to the EU, the actual trade deal(s) would be much more beneficial for the UK.

[yogi100]

57 minutes ago, stevenl said:

In other words, you don't know but have a very steadfast opinion on it.

You are correct. I admittedly don't know the precise details of the deal or deals they have in mind,

 

If you could enlighten me I'd surely appreciate it.

 

That's if you actually know yourself, that is.

[yogi100]

32 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

Typical Brexit fan; literally no idea of what happens but in their mind, it still can't be as bad as staying in the EU. 

Look up the information on the internet (it's not just there to rant on sites like this). Educate yourself to the huge tariffs UK exporters will face when reverting to WTO rules (there's no choice, they're automatic), investigate the cost of tariffs for importers, driving up prices in the UK, see how long the delays for importing/exporting are going to be and find out how long it typically takes to get a trade deal properly sorted out (especially now they have to do it with EVERY single country) and then you might start to understand why many of our Remain fans are so concerned and why we reject Brexiters calling it Project Fear. It's Project Reality.

It's been a long time coming but welcome to the party.  

 

 

To save me doing the necessary research why don't you spend a few minutes typing a few paragraphs explaining the intricacies of these tariffs.

 

You sound as if you're familiar with them.

 

If they are already in place it won't need a lot of work implementing them will it.

[RickBradford]

The 2016 referendum should be viewed as a test to see if someone was eligible to vote in a second referendum. 

 

If you voted Leave in the test vote, you failed, and are therefore banned from voting in the second one, the real one.

 

That's true democracy, Remainer-style.

[johnnybangkok]

4 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

To save me doing the necessary research why don't you spend a few minutes typing a few paragraphs explaining the intricacies of these tariffs.

 

You sound as if you're familiar with them.

 

If they are already in place it won't need a lot of work implementing them will it.

Sure. Let me get right on to that for you sir and whilst I’m there would you like some information on the immigration policy that you always get wrong as well?

For someone so against something for nothing you sure are happy to get something for nothing. 

[yogi100]

22 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

Sure. Let me get right on to that for you sir and whilst I’m there would you like some information on the immigration policy that you always get wrong as well?

For someone so against something for nothing you sure are happy to get something for nothing. 

Thanking you very much in anticipation.

 

As I'm what they call a Brexiteer I'm sure you're of the opinion that I'm as thick as two planks so I'd be very grateful for any enlightenment you can throw my way on these subjects.

 

But put in plain easy to read English so I can understand it.

[tomacht8]

2 hours ago, yogi100 said:

We keep hearing about 'a deal' or 'no deal'.

 

When we leave the EU will European nations stop selling us their wine, cars and agricultural produce and will we stop buying it. I for one very much doubt it.

 

Because when all is said and done such trade amounts to a huge amount of vital business. So we've obviously already got deals.

 

So what sort of a deal are the politicians on about. I'm sure such talk is just an excuse or a red herring introduced into the brew by remainers to hinder or stop our quitting the 

 

http://theconversation.com/no-deal-seven-reasons-why-a-wto-only-brexit-would-be-bad-for-britain-102009

[johnnybangkok]

47 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

Thanking you very much in anticipation.

 

As I'm what they call a Brexiteer I'm sure you're of the opinion that I'm as thick as two planks so I'd be very grateful for any enlightenment you can throw my way on these subjects.

 

But put in plain easy to read English so I can understand it.

Sure. I’ll use crayons. 

[Loiner]

5 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

Sure. I’ll use crayons. 

Careful with those, you wouldn't want to hurt yourself or anybody else. They could be dangerous in the hands of the uninitiated.

[Chomper Higgot]

12 hours ago, yogi100 said:

Thanking you very much in anticipation.

 

As I'm what they call a Brexiteer I'm sure you're of the opinion that I'm as thick as two planks so I'd be very grateful for any enlightenment you can throw my way on these subjects.

 

But put in plain easy to read English so I can understand it.

Nobody said you are ‘as thick as two planks’.

 

So why mention it?

[sandyf]

17 hours ago, yogi100 said:

We keep hearing about 'a deal' or 'no deal'.

 

When we leave the EU will European nations stop selling us their wine, cars and agricultural produce and will we stop buying it. I for one very much doubt it.

 

Because when all is said and done such trade amounts to a huge amount of vital business. So we've obviously already got deals.

 

So what sort of a deal are the politicians on about. I'm sure such talk is just an excuse or a red herring introduced into the brew by remainers to hinder or stop our quitting the EU.

Maybe you can remind me which politician, prior to the referendum, spelled out exactly to the electorate how WTO, tariffs and customs documentation would work. The UK has always traded with the EU and will continue to do so. I used to sell capital equipment into Europe before the single market, but it wasn't easy, anyone that says otherwise obviously has never done it. By that I mean personally and not through staff.

The introduction of the single market was the single biggest export boost to UK business in its history. I am not talking big business, I am talking about the hundreds of SME's that cannot afford dedicated export departments and the business owners/managers have to shoulder the burden of administrative regulations on their own.

[yogi100]

5 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Nobody said you are ‘as thick as two planks’.

 

So why mention it?

And I never said anyone did. It's a common assumption among Remainers that Brexiteers are too stupid to know what they voted for. 

 

In the UK the term ‘as thick as two planks’ is used when referring to those who are not too bright.

[Basil B]

22 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

And I never said anyone did. It's a common assumption among Remainers that Brexiteers are too stupid to know what they voted for. 

 

In the UK the term ‘as thick as two planks’ is used when referring to those who are not too bright.

As you brought up the subject...

Quote

It is a belief that some pro-Europeans already hold dear, but a group of scientists now claim to have confirmed it: Brexit voters are less bright than remainers.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brexit-voters-are-less-bright-than-remainers-7nk8s3272

 

[yogi100]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

Maybe you can remind me which politician, prior to the referendum, spelled out exactly to the electorate how WTO, tariffs and customs documentation would work. The UK has always traded with the EU and will continue to do so. I used to sell capital equipment into Europe before the single market, but it wasn't easy, anyone that says otherwise obviously has never done it. By that I mean personally and not through staff.

The introduction of the single market was the single biggest export boost to UK business in its history. I am not talking big business, I am talking about the hundreds of SME's that cannot afford dedicated export departments and the business owners/managers have to shoulder the burden of administrative regulations on their own.

I know exactly how you feel and you have my deepest sympathy.

 

In 2004 myself and four colleagues were laid off with no notice and no severance package. We were told the work had 'dried up'.

 

'Will contact you when work picks up again' etc etc.

 

We eventually discovered that we'd been replaced by Eastern Europeans getting just over half the money of that which we'd been getting. Three of us were young fellows with young families. Two others including myself were older and were unable to obtain new employment. We're now retired.

 

I've lost touch with the younger fellows but two of us older ones never worked again and had to rely on the benefit system till we hit retirement age. You paid for that! So did all British tax payers at considerable cost to the British economy.

 

Our friends and families saw what happened and it probably influenced how they voted in June 2016. It certainly influenced us and probably thousands of others in similar situations.

 

We were ordinary manual workers but we knew exactly what we were voting for and why we did so.

 

Incidentally what is SME code for?

[DannyCarlton]

23 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

Incidentally what is SME code for?

Small to Medium Enterprise. A Brit would know that, a Russian probably not. 555

 

 

Edited September 9, 2019 by DannyCarlton

[transam]

2 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Small to Medium Enterprise. A Brit would know that, a Russian probably not. 555

 

 

We would....?

[yogi100]

1 minute ago, DannyCarlton said:

Small and Medium enterprise. A brit would know that, a Russian probably not. 555

How would a 'Brit' or even a Russian who has never had any business experience know that.

 

You only know it because you just googled it like I just did.  You did not have a clue before.

 

 

"SME stands for Small to Medium Enterprise. However, what exactly an SME or Small to Medium Enterprise depends on who's doing the defining. Depending on the country, the size of the enterprise can be categorized based on the number of employees, annual sales, assets, or any combination of these."

 

 

 

 

[transam]

1 minute ago, DannyCarlton said:

Oh no, not another Russian Spam Bot on the forum? I did have my suspicions.

Well today we have been told that all MP's lie, anyone who voted for Brexit is uneducated if they do not know UK law YET MP's are at this moment scrabbling to visit law makers....You could not make this stuff up, except it seems bad losers here..

[DannyCarlton]

Just now, yogi100 said:

How would a 'Brit' or even a Russian who has never had any business experience know that.

 

You only know it because you just googled it like I just did.  You did not have a clue before.

 

 

"SME stands for Small to Medium Enterprise. However, what exactly an SME or Small to Medium Enterprise depends on who's doing the defining. Depending on the country, the size of the enterprise can be categorized based on the number of employees, annual sales, assets, or any combination of these."

 

 

 

 

I can assur you that I didn't need to google it. Also never owned or worked for an SME. Unlike you by the sound of your tale of woe.