My Cholesterol drug ( Bestatin ) is giving me bad side effects – looking for advice

[cooked]

7 minutes ago, JAS21 said:

Well I am one of those unfortunate people with exercise and diet will not control that cholesterol level.

 

In 1993 at the age of 48 who did gym, cycle, run, play squash I had an MI. A few weeks later a  double bypass. Two weeks later I was back to cycling  10 miles before breakfast and later frequently cycled for 25 miles each way to work and back.

 

 Even though I was very careful with my diet my Cholesterol levels were unacceptable and I was put on a statin.  And from then my LDL was kept at a very low level. In fact at the level that is acceptable today for heart patients.

 

 In 2005 I had another MI.  They didn’t find a cause for it so maybe dehydrated  but it was within six weeks of a long aircraft flight.

 

 So the cardiologist added Ramapril, clopidogrel and ezetimibe.

 

 I did have a stent fitted in 2012 After a routine treadmill showed a problem. Somewhat unfortunately I had a bit of a problem a few days later so Ended up with some muscle damage.

 

So basically in 1993 even after the operation I still had some narrowing but they were too small to do anything with.  I was told you have enough capillaries to deal with it.

 

 I am on second generation  statins now.  Yes my muscles ache a bit but I’m still above ground and maybe wouldn’t  if the cardiologist at London Bridge Hospital had not started me on them when he did. 

 

I can still get into level four on the treadmill and have just had rotator cuff surgery and didn’t have a problem heart wise.

 

YMMV

PS I am having to dictate this using Siri so sorry for any bad English or punctuation. Siri doesn’t always listen!!

 

Two thirds of first event CAV's occur in people with low or normal LDL levels. It's scam. What diet did you go on to? The no eggs, low fat diet? Doesn't work. Nor does exercise, you can't outrun a bad diet. I exercise to keep fit, no other reason.

 

[Berkshire]

3 minutes ago, cooked said:

As a result of being told lies by Big farma for many years, I'm afraid that I remain extremely sceptical.

It appears to be an derivative of Omega-3 and is meant for SEVERELY high trigs, which excludes most potential CAV patients. I haven't seen the studies so I am also sceptical about the 25% claim, sounds like the "reduction by 35% claim for statins, which was a manipulation of statistics bordering on fraud. 

The accompanying advice "eat low fat" is completely contradictory to what is proven (and completely ignored) research and science. So I'll give that a pass.

The drug just went through a major clinical trial called REDUCE-IT involving over 8,000 patients.  Their findings have been thoroughly and aggressively peer-reviewed.  Anyways, if you're interested....

 

https://www.vascepahcp.com/

[DavisH]

On 9/22/2019 at 9:51 AM, Sheryl said:

First of all:  since your triglycerides are low the first thing you need to do is find out if the LDL is direct or indirect. Indirect LDL is an estimation and uses a formula that can be inaccurate when the TG level is unusually low or high. Basically the formula assumes TG level between 100 - 400.

 

If it was indirect (often the case) it needs to be repeated with a direct measure.  Until that is done you do not actually know what your LDL level is.

 

Secondly, the Cholesterol ratio is important as well as the LDL. Yours is too high but can be improved not just by reducing the LDL but also by raising the HDL. I suggest you start taking fish oil and/or eating more fish, especially oily fish like mackeral and tuna.

 

Thirdly, with your numbers (assuming the LDL is direct), there is a good chance that lifestyle modifications alone would be enough and this should have been tried first. In the West, this is the first line of approach for levels such as yours with medications used only if the patient is unable/unwilling to make the needed changes or the changes alone don't bring levels down enough.  Thai doctors tend not to bother, assuming patients will nto change their diets etc.

 

Basically what you need to do is:

 

1 - get more exercise on a regular basis. Although the more the better, any increase over your current level of activity is better than none and you should aim for things you can sustain as regular parts of your day over the long run.

 

2 - Avoid processed foods overall and processed carbs especially.  That includes white breads, pastas and white rice. Switch to brown rice, brown bread, wholewheat pasta and try to overall consume less rice/bread/pasta and more of other foods.

 

3 - consume more fiber. Oatmeal is very helpful and something many people find easy to add to their diet.

 

4- Eat more fruits and vegetables. (Will also help on the fiber front)

 

5- Use healthy oils like olive  oil. NO palm oil which is what most fried Thai foods are made with.

 

6- beans, legumes and nuts are also good but with nuts, as they are very caloric, keep it in moderation.

 

The above measures, if you can follow them, will certainly improve your lipid profile and possible to a point where no medication is needed.  In addition to improving your lipids and with that risk of cardiovascular disease and stroke, these measures are associated with lower risks of cancer and other health problems.

 

IF despite lifestyle modifications your cholesterol ratio and/or non-HDL cholesterol  remain too high, there are medications other than statins that can be tried. (There are also other statins).  But try these measures first, and repeat labs after 3 months, making sure the LDL is a direct measurement.

 

Good posting. I lost weight over a few months and halved by triglycerides. Over 160 to 80. However, the LDL increased which gave some concern for the doctor, as it is above normal (dont recall the reading). I'm pretty sure it was an indirect measure and that can artifically increase the LDL reading as you stated. Upon more reading, I've found that there are also different sized cholesterol molecules - the large fluffy ones are harmless. The dangerous ones are the small ones. So its possible changes in LDL could be doe to changes in the types of ldl molecules. Still, I will be trying to reduce LDL and will have another blood test in November. 

[moe666]

Yes keep taking those medications that make you feel bad and will only add a few months to your life span while making you feel bad. Read the cholestrol solution a very good bood about the cholestrol scam

[cooked]

1 hour ago, Berkshire said:

The drug just went through a major clinical trial called REDUCE-IT involving over 8,000 patients.  Their findings have been thoroughly and aggressively peer-reviewed.  Anyways, if you're interested....

 

https://www.vascepahcp.com/

There are various ways of interpreting this data, but on the face of it they look . I come back to a previous point: people are told to eat low fat while taking this med. Going low carb and eating fat is a proven method of lowering trigs, so on the whole, I reject what seems to be another unnecessary drug.

Link from Virta Health, which isn't a fad diet organisation: https://www.ruled.me/best-triglyceride-lowering-diet/

[Berkshire]

19 hours ago, cooked said:

There are various ways of interpreting this data, but on the face of it they look . I come back to a previous point: people are told to eat low fat while taking this med. Going low carb and eating fat is a proven method of lowering trigs, so on the whole, I reject what seems to be another unnecessary drug.

Link from Virta Health, which isn't a fad diet organisation: https://www.ruled.me/best-triglyceride-lowering-diet/

The draft appropriations mark-up has Reduce-It on page 98 and 99.....

https://www.appropriations.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/FY2020 Labor-HHS Appropriations Act, Report.pdf

Reducing Residual Cardiovascular Risk.—Data compiled by the
American Heart Association in conjunction with the CDC, NIH,
and other government sources indicate that cardiovascular events
account for one of every three deaths in the United States; about
2,300 Americans die of cardiovascular disease each day. Progression
of cardiovascular disease to death, heart attack, stroke, or
other adverse event is expensive, painful, and results in a loss of
productivity. Cholesterol therapies, such as statins, have been successful
in reducing risk of cardiovascular disease in many Americans,
but substantial residual and untreated risk remains for these
individuals beyond cholesterol management. A landmark clinical
trial called REDUCE-IT has demonstrated a 25 percent relative
risk reduction in major adverse cardiovascular events beyond cholesterol
management, from the use of highly purified and stable
eicosapentaenoic acid in addition to statin therapy. The Committee
is concerned that, despite these statistics, many individuals do not
regularly access treatments for residual risk beyond statin therapy.
The Committee commends NIH, particularly through NHLBI, for
playing an important role in bridging the knowledge gap and encouraging
healthcare professionals and their patients to take action
toward well-informed decisions for care. The Committee urges NIH
to devote funding, particularly through the ‘‘know your numbers’’
campaign, to promote awareness among physicians and patients of
the residual cardiovascular risks beyond statin therapy and the importance
of taking preventative action to reduce this risk.

[Tayaout]

Did you read the study? Because for statin and many other drug what they do is they play with the numbers. For example let say the risk of some event happening when using the drug goes from 4% to 2% they say it reduces the risk by 50% when in fact it only goes down by 2%. Then they ignore the side effect and build a pretty website and marketing campaign. 

Edited September 24, 2019 by Tayaout

[Nyezhov]

I was precribed a statin after my chest clutcher and stent. That, with diet, walking, no smoking cigs, benecol, knocked my cholie down. 

 

Then I went back to the states, the Docs at Duke Univ continued the statin. I had no benecol. I ate pizza and rode around in a car and smoked a lot of weed and then went to Cookout on the Eat or In and Out in the West. I also confused myself and stopped taking the stains for a month.

 

In late july, my numbers skyrocketed. Went back on the statin and came here. My diet is more fruit and veggie heavy and I walk far more.

 

Now my numbers are like a 25 year old. I take Rouvestatin. It makes me tired, or at least one of my meds does so I take it at night. I drink a benecol every two or three days. Ive lost like 13 pounds since january, not that any weight loss would make me less of a disgusting slobbering food slut, Melvin.

[sandyf]

"so they prescribed Bestatin 40mg."

 

That level is a bit on the high side.

I have been taking statins for over 20 years and was initially prescribed 40mg by my doctor in the UK. After about 7/8 years I ordered a repeat prescription and the tablets were 20mg. I thought they had made a mistake and went to see the doctor, he said studies have shown that high levels can lead to certain side effects and it had become policy to limit prescriptions to 20mg.

A couple of years after coming here a blood test showed all levels were well within the accepted ranges and the doctor suggested I reduce to 10mg and see what happens. Been that way for about 8 years now and the levels have remained about the same.

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, Tayaout said:

Did you read the study? Because for statin and many other drug what they do is they play with the numbers. For example let say the risk of some event happening when using the drug goes from 4% to 2% they say it reduces the risk by 50% when in fact it only goes down by 2%.

 

No, it does not. It goes down by 50%. A 2% drop from 4% would be going down to 3.92

 

Basic math. 4% to 2% is indeed a halving of risk. No playing with numbers involved.

 

With any discussion of risk and risk reduction it is helpful to understand the magnitude of the risk to begin with. It is usually in the single digits per year to begin with. Lifetime risk will be higher of course than annual risk, for any event.

[Sheryl]

A post containing a youtube video of a widely discredited non-physician's talk has been removed in keeping with forum rules.  Stick to valid scientific sources, please.

[Tayaout]

9 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

A post containing a youtube video of a widely discredited non-physician's talk has been removed in keeping with forum rules.  Stick to valid scientific sources, please.

Instead of deleting the link you could point out where she is mistaking. This would save me the time I need now to try to understand your point since the study is not even her own.