Driving on Home Country License/IDP once you have a long stay visa

[WaveHunter]

6 minutes ago, khunPer said:

I would worry more if getting into an accident, and what insurance would cover...????

Getting a Thai DL is not that difficult, cost is about 600 baht.

Exactly.  I'm glad that many members here made me consider the insurance factor.  I've now decided I will get the license next week before my trip to Chiang Mai.

[emptypockets]

4 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

yeah anyone want to help me in Bangkok? Ill buy ya lunch. I dont have an IDP

Can you get a certificate of residence? If not you're screwed. I'm in the same boat. Oz embassy has stopped issuing them.

Edited October 5, 2019 by emptypockets

[sometimewoodworker]

17 minutes ago, emptypockets said:

Can you get a certificate of residence? If not you're screwed. I'm in the same boat. Oz embassy has stopped issuing them.

Depending on your immigration office, it is one of the services that they provide. It is supposed to be free but often a donation to the tea fund is needed if you want it quickly 

[sometimewoodworker]

8 minutes ago, FredGallaher said:

The first year they will only give you one year, after that either 2 or 5 years.

That information is out of date the 1 year license's stoped a few years ago, the first licence is now 2 years. After that if you have a year extension or a non-O or non-OA you will get a 5 year licence. 

 

If you renew any licence (2 or 5 year) with with a VE, visa on arrival, or tourist visa you will/should get a 2 year temporary license 

Edited October 5, 2019 by sometimewoodworker

[WaveHunter]

55 minutes ago, emptypockets said:

Can you get a certificate of residence? If not you're screwed. I'm in the same boat. Oz embassy has stopped issuing them.

I'm no expert on this, but can't you just get it directly from Thai Immigration?  I am from USA and there is no need for Embassy involvement at all.  I think your TM30 and a housing rental contract is all you need for documentation.  Here is the form from Thai immigration:

 

Thai-Residency-Certificate-Form.pdf

Edited October 5, 2019 by WaveHunter

[Alex2554]

Do reentry to reset your 90 days counter

[Curmudgeonly59]

1 hour ago, WaveHunter said:

directly from Thai Immigration? 

WaveHunter you're overthinking it.

Go to Thai Immigration. The same office where you do your 90 day report. Tell them you need a letter for your driving licence at DLT. They have the proforma ready and simply fill out your details. Maybe they can do it the same day, but I doubt it. Recent info was 500 Baht (maybe that was a sap) for two separate letters from Immigration testifying residence. 

You won't need to sit the 50 question multiple choice test, or the practical driving test. You will have to do the color blindness test, reaction time test and peripheral vision test. All straightforward.  So do yourself a favour - get it all done in Pattaya before you leave and have a peaceful trip to Chiang Mai, safe in the knowledge there are no potential legal/insurance risk minefields in your path  - other than the usual lethal driving hazards of any long trip in Thailand. Save the motorcycle licence for when you're in CM and settled...

[khunPer]

1 hour ago, WaveHunter said:

I'm no expert on this, but can't you just get it directly from Thai Immigration?

Normally Immigration will issue a letter certification of address – they might charge for example 500 baht for that service – check with your local immigration if they need anything more than the TM30 receipt, which could be a rental contract, and copy of owners ID-card and Blue Book.

[srowndedbyh2o]

Instead of renting an SUV to move your stuff to Chiang Mai, couldn’t you pack it up and ship it, and then just fly up to Chiang Mai?

[LukKrueng]

17 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

Can you provide a link to what you say about one year or under?  Form my last entry, I've been in-country less than one year so if what you say is true, I could drive up to Chinag Mai "legally" and deal with licensing once I have more time on my hands up in China Mai.

 

However, I'm getting information that is all over the place.  The consensus seem to be that anything over 90 days places you in jeopardy.

 

I'll probably opt for getting my car license down here in Pattaya, and then upgrading to motorbike license once in Chiang Mai if I can not be certain about home-country license validity.  But it would be nice to actually know the facts without having to be a lawyer to figure it all out, so I'd love to see the link if you have it.

 

And thanks for a helpful reply!

as in many countries on the world, IDP is valid in Thailand only while on short visits, 3 months as far as I know (don't know about the 1 year someone mentioned earlier). So "legally" if you live in Thailand you're supposed to get the local license within 3 month from moving here and not according to your last entry.

Practically, when pulled over by police at check points all they ask for is your driving license/IDP. The only case they ask for your passport and check your visa will be immigration checks and they are rare to non existing on the roads, and then they are not concerned with your license.

As for insurance, they only check for a valid license/idp and never for your legal status in Thailand so as long as you have a valid license you don't have insurance problems. Someone mentioned above being suited in civil court in case of an accident - this is Thailand, not USA. The only cases that go to court here are cases that no one is willing to take responsibility to the accident. The way it works here is in case of accident you call your insurance. They send their accident accessor to the location to check what happened and determine who was at fault - you or the other driver. If accepted by all parties it ends at this point. If not, you all go to the nearest police station. They will check the stories, might even go to see the accident site, and determine whose at fault. If agreed by all, it ends at this point. If the guilty party is not willing to take responsibility at this point, the police will do all they can to reach an agreement between all parties and the case will be sent to court only as a last resort.

As for the address on your driving license - legally you have to make sure it is up to date, meaning going to the DLT and update it everythime you move. Practically most people only update the address when renewing the license.

[Nemises]

20 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

Thank you to all who provided input here.  Just to be clear, I indeed have a license from my home country and an IDP.  My concern is that I have been in Thailand longer than 90 days so technically I don't know if that makes my license and IDP completely invalid or not.  Judging from the responses it seems to be a "gray area"

 

I'm now opting to get the car drivers license here in Pattaya just to be safe since my main concern is possible impact on insurance coverage should the worst occur on my trip up to Chiang Mai in a rented car.  Thanks to all who pointed out that insurance should be my main concern...good call!

 

Once again, ThaiVisa has proved to be an excellent resource for problem solving here in the Magic Kingdom!

I got pulled over 3 times at different road blocks driving from Pattaya to Chiang Mai. I got fined because my IDL and home country license were no longer valid as I’d been in Thailand just over the allowable days. I showed the 2nd & 3rd road-block police my fine receipt from the 1st, and after a good laugh they let me continue without further fines. The fine was only about 200b. 

 

[Peterw42]

11 minutes ago, Nemises said:

I got pulled over 3 times at different road blocks driving from Pattaya to Chiang Mai. I got fined because my IDL and home country license were no longer valid as I’d been in Thailand just over the allowable days. I showed the 2nd & 3rd road-block police my fine receipt from the 1st, and after a good laugh they let me continue without further fines. The fine was only about 200b. 

 

Does that mean police asked for and checked your passport ? Otherwise how did they know how long ?

[Nemises]

Does that mean police asked for and checked your passport ? Otherwise how did they know how long ?

Yes. They indeed always asked me for, and checked my passport whenever I produced an IDL.

[WaveHunter]

9 hours ago, Curmudgeonly59 said:

WaveHunter you're overthinking it.

Go to Thai Immigration. The same office where you do your 90 day report. Tell them you need a letter for your driving licence at DLT. They have the proforma ready and simply fill out your details. Maybe they can do it the same day, but I doubt it. Recent info was 500 Baht (maybe that was a sap) for two separate letters from Immigration testifying residence. 

You won't need to sit the 50 question multiple choice test, or the practical driving test. You will have to do the color blindness test, reaction time test and peripheral vision test. All straightforward.  So do yourself a favour - get it all done in Pattaya before you leave and have a peaceful trip to Chiang Mai, safe in the knowledge there are no potential legal/insurance risk minefields in your path  - other than the usual lethal driving hazards of any long trip in Thailand. Save the motorcycle licence for when you're in CM and settled...

I agree getting license for car before trip is the way to go.  Jomtien Imm is actually very good about issuing Residency certificate from what I understand.  Required photos (3) can be done right at Imm when you walk in front door.  They process the certificate within one hour unlike many Imm offices that tell you to come back the following day, or some that require an additional fee or else can take a week or longer to process.

 

As you said, no need for written or practical test if you already have home country license.  From what I understand, even if you do not have IDP, that’s not necessarily a deal breaker.  Also, at least at the ChonBuri office at BangLamung, you’ll have license the same day.  No need to come back the following day to pick up.

 

At least that’s my understanding from what reliable sources have told me.  If anyone disagrees, please correct me.  I’m posting this just so others will have a clear understanding since there is so much mis-information all of this floating around.

[WaveHunter]

1 hour ago, Nemises said:

I got pulled over 3 times at different road blocks driving from Pattaya to Chiang Mai. I got fined because my IDL and home country license were no longer valid as I’d been in Thailand just over the allowable days. I showed the 2nd & 3rd road-block police my fine receipt from the 1st, and after a good laugh they let me continue without further fines. The fine was only about 200b. 

 

Just to reiterate what I’ve come to understand; getting a ticket for invalid IDP should not be your main concern.  Having it invalidate your insurance protection should you get into a accident that causes injury to another person should be your concern.

[WaveHunter]

6 hours ago, srowndedbyh2o said:

Instead of renting an SUV to move your stuff to Chiang Mai, couldn’t you pack it up and ship it, and then just fly up to Chiang Mai?

Too much stuff to ship.  Car rental is cheapest option.  

 

For anyone interested, there is a car rental agency called Chic Car Rentals with offices located all throughout Thailand.  They offer ONE-WAY rentals at very reasonable rates.  They are a division of the national Honda dealership group and very good...honest, reliable, and on my rental I did to move down to Pattaya from Chiang Mai, they even provided “premium” insurance at no additional cost.  

 

I did this rental with only IDP, stupidly not considering the fact that my long-stay visa would invalidate the insurance should I have an accident involving 3rd party injury...starting this thread helped me understand this.

 

Anyone driving on an IDP after being in Thailand longer than 90 days should understand this.  

 

IMPORTANT TAKE AWAY: If you get into an accident involving a Thai National and your insurance is invalidated because your IDP was no longer in effect (using it in Thailand for longer than 90 days), you could be liable for lifetime payment to that Thai National should disability result!

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by WaveHunter

[TigerandDog]

23 hours ago, jackdd said:

It's not really a grey area, but the details which you gave are just not precise.

If the last time you entered Thailand is less than a year ago and you have an IDP which is not expired you are good to go. You have a valid license and can't be fined.

If you entered Thailand more than a year ago then you don't have a valid license, so it's the same as if you were driving without a license.

jackdd you were proven to be WRONG when you previously posted about the need for a Thai license and IDP. The proof of that was provided by way of an extract supplied by Land Transport in Bangkok, but you still insist that you don't need to get a Thai License after being here on a long stay visa for more than 90 days. Wake up man, or are you just one of the many know-alls in this forum that know sfa.

[jackdd]

15 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

jackdd you were proven to be WRONG when you previously posted about the need for a Thai license and IDP. The proof of that was provided by way of an extract supplied by Land Transport in Bangkok, but you still insist that you don't need to get a Thai License after being here on a long stay visa for more than 90 days. Wake up man, or are you just one of the many know-alls in this forum that know sfa.

AFAIK I was never proven wrong yet. In case I missed the prove please just post it here so everybody can see that I was wrong.

[WaveHunter]

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

AFAIK I was never proven wrong yet. In case I missed the prove please just post it here so everybody can see that I was wrong.

Unfortunately, I am afraid you are under mistaken assumption that a Thai license is not necessary after 90 days in-country. 

 

Some might consider it a "gray area" and say it's not a big deal since, if you are stopped by police, the policeman will probably not even bother to check your passport to see how long you've been in-country, or even if he does, it will only amount in an on-the-spot fine of a few hundred baht.

 

The DANGER is that if you are involved in a traffic accident and a Thai National is injured (whether or not it is your fault), your IDP will be considered invalid if you have been in-country beyond 90 days...maybe not by the police, but certainly by a Thai lawyer in a civil suit, representing the injured party. 

 

You WILL be found guilty (based on an invalid IDP) and liable for not only paying medical costs for the Thai National, but if his injuries result in a permanent disability, you will additionally be liable for lifetime payments to him and/or his family!

 

If the accident was not your fault, I'm sure you could hire your own lawyer to fight the case, but seriously (Farang vs Thai National), how do you think it will probably turn out?

 

I can not cite the precise law or regulation but as others have mentioned, and as @FredGallaher alluded to in one of his posts...ask any insurance agent here in Thailand, and in no uncertain terms, I'm sure they will advise getting a Thai license before you have been in-country for over 90 days.  

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by WaveHunter

[jackdd]

38 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Unfortunately, I am afraid you are under mistaken assumption that a Thai license is not necessary after 90 days in-country. 

Could be. But so far nobody who i asked could ever provide an official source for anything like a 90 day limit, and it definitely doesn't exist in the law or in the IDP treaty.

 

38 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

I can not cite the precise law or regulation

Surprisingly nobody else here on Thaivisa could cite it as well, which means you are most likely wrong.

 

38 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

and as @FredGallaher alluded to in one of his posts...ask any insurance agent here in Thailand, and in no uncertain terms, I'm sure they will advise getting a Thai license before you have been in-country for over 90 days.  

I always said that a private company can write in their insurance policy whatever they want, so people would have to check their policy and ask them. When i said foreign license + IDP can be used for up to a year i'm of course talking about the Thai law, and if a police officer could fine the person for not having a license.

I wrote here already what i was told regarding my first class insurance: A license from any country, no IDP required. So your assumption that they will advise to get a Thai license is not generally the case. Another company or another policy might of course have other requirements.

Edited October 6, 2019 by jackdd

[WaveHunter]

21 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Could be. But so far nobody who i asked could ever provide an official source for anything like a 90 day limit, and it definitely doesn't exist in the law or in the IDP treaty.

 

Surprisingly nobody else here on Thaivisa could cite it as well, which means you are most likely wrong.

 

I always said that a private company can write in their insurance policy whatever they want, so people would have to check their policy and ask them. When i said foreign license + IDP can be used for up to a year i'm of course talking about the Thai law, and if a police officer could fine the person for not having a license.

I wrote here already what i was told regarding my first class insurance: A license from any country, no IDP required. So your assumption that they will advise to get a Thai license is not generally the case.

Well you know how things are in Thailand, especially regarding civil law.  I think you need to be a Thai lawyer and be fluent in Thai language to really get at the root of this.

 

What's more, it seems to me that Thai law is almost never black & white, but varying shades of gray, and very open to interpretation by officials. 

 

If there is a chance you could place yourself in SERIOUS financial jeopardy (i.e.: civil suit for injuring a Thai National), why would you take that chance?   

 

Of course I only speak for myself. I will err on the side of caution and get the Thai license before I hit the road in a car even though my IDP will not expire for another month. 

 

Better that than getting in an accident and having to face civil litigation brought on by a smart and aggressive Thai lawyer representing an injured party.  Again...Thai National vs Farang...who do you think would win the case?

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by WaveHunter

[jackdd]

13 minutes ago, FredGallaher said:

Be especially careful with rental cars that provide insurance.

Every time i've rented a car i had to show them my passport and driving license, which they copied.

I'm aware that this is Thailand, but even here it would be difficult for them to refuse an insurance payout by saying that you didn't have the right driving license, if they saw your passport + license upon renting the car to you.

Most likely the rental companies have insurance policies which are similar to the one which i have: Driving license from any country, as long as it's not expired and for a car. Of course, if in doubt, check the fine print.

Edited October 6, 2019 by jackdd

[WaveHunter]

14 minutes ago, FredGallaher said:

...Be especially careful with rental cars that provide insurance. ...

What should one be concerned about regarding insurance from car rental companies?

[WaveHunter]

16 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Every time i've rented a car i had to show them my passport and driving license, which they copied.

I'm aware that this is Thailand, but even here it would be difficult for them to refuse an insurance payout by saying that you didn't have the right driving license, if they saw your passport + license upon renting the car to you.

Most likely the rental companies have insurance policies which are similar to the one which i have: Driving license from any country, as long as it's not expired and for a car. Of course, if in doubt, check the fine print.

With all due respect, you are focusing on damage coverage to vehicles,  not 3rd party liability for injuries.  The latter should be of FAR more concern in terms of your financial liability. 

 

With either, an insurance company will be ruthless in avoiding a payout if they can find a reason, and an invalid IDP will be just the excuse they can use IMO.  

 

I'm no legal expert but it seems logical that If they deem the IDP to be invalid because you are past 90 days, that's really the same as being a completely unlicensed driver as far as a civil case would go.

Edited October 6, 2019 by WaveHunter

[WaveHunter]

7 minutes ago, FredGallaher said:

If you aren't in compliance with the law the company might stick you with the bill. 

All I know is what I was told when we bought a car. The saleslady wasn't gaining anything but my trust by insisting I get a license ASAP. 

I'm not about to argue or spend time looking it up for others. It's up to them to decide. 

No, no...what I meant was this:  What should one be careful about when a car rental agency says you are "completely" covered.  In the USA, it's very clearly spelled out in the contract.  In Thailand, that does not seem to be the case.

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by WaveHunter

[Captain Monday]

You are overthinking this the most important thing is your insurance situation, but I'm not sure about that. I have a condo in Chiang Mai for years it is a great place but here is the deal once you arrive. Drive in Chiang Mai Old city or on the Super Highway you can expect to be stopped almost everyday. My record is 4 times in one day motorbike and two times in my ex girlfriends car. I got rid of my vehicles and only rent when I need since UBER and now GRAB came to Thailand. Don't think about having a beer at night there are roaming mobile checkpoints around the old city.  Before the coup you could buy your way out for 30,000 now not possible you will be prosecuted. As long as you have helmet, home country license AND idp you will be fine in Chiang Mai. I have never been fined, even driving a rental bike with no license plate with an expired IDP issued on a valid Nevada (US) license. Driving your own vehicle brings in extra issues with Tax discs and bluebooks the cops don't care about rentals they know who runs them.

 

 Once you are here. Getting licenses is easy counter ladies at the transport office speak English well and it is easy to get the medical certificate. My US car license was accepted and I had to take some exams for motorcycle When I went for my 5 year licenses there is a two hour video in Thai they pulled me out after five minutes. "never mind you OK".  This may be thanks for paying 100 baht for the plastic license covers.

 

 

[WaveHunter]

11 minutes ago, Captain Monday said:

You are overthinking this the most important thing is your insurance situation, but I'm not sure about that. I have a condo in Chiang Mai for years it is a great place but here is the deal once you arrive. Drive in Chiang Mai Old city or on the Super Highway you can expect to be stopped almost everyday. My record is 4 times in one day motorbike and two times in my ex girlfriends car. I got rid of my vehicles and only rent when I need since UBER and now GRAB came to Thailand. Don't think about having a beer at night there are roaming mobile checkpoints around the old city.  Before the coup you could buy your way out for 30,000 now not possible you will be prosecuted. As long as you have helmet, home country license AND idp you will be fine in Chiang Mai. I have never been fined, even driving a rental bike with no license plate with an expired IDP issued on a valid Nevada (US) license. Driving your own vehicle brings in extra issues with Tax discs and bluebooks the cops don't care about rentals they know who runs them.

 

 Once you are here. Getting licenses is easy counter ladies at the transport office speak English well and it is easy to get the medical certificate. My US car license was accepted and I had to take some exams for motorcycle When I went for my 5 year licenses there is a two hour video in Thai they pulled me out after five minutes. "never mind you OK".  This may be thanks for paying 100 baht for the plastic license covers.

 

 

Glad to hear your positive review of Chiang Mai Land Transportation Office.  FYI, I lived in Chiang Mai for almost two years before I came down to Pattaya in March to escape Smoky Season.  Didn't plan to stay so long but here I am...still!  Moving back to CM next month. 

 

Well aware of the police checkpoints all over town.  I'd see them almost daily on Huay Kaew Rd by Maya Mall.  It was such a pleasure to ride right through through without a care on my bicycle ????.

 

To be honest, I'm still on the fence about getting a motorcycle.  Frankly, as a cyclist I can get anywhere in Chiang Mai almost as fast as on a scooter unless it's clear on the other side of town (like Wat Ket to Suthep).

 

Since I've been in-country for WELL OVER 90 days now, I don;t feel an IDP is a good option so I'll absolutely be getting a Thai License before my trip up to CM, and then I motorcycle license if I decide to get one.

 

With all due respect, I don't think I'm overthinking the insurance ramifications of driving on a IDP past 90 days. 

 

I admit that it's a debatable topic since nobody on this forum can back up one view or the other, but the way I look at it is simply like this:

 

If IDP is not valid after 90 days, and I get in accident where somebody is injured, potentially I have a LOT to lose financially. 

 

On the other hand if it is true that an IDP is valid beyond 90 days, and I still decide to get a Thai License, my only loss is the few hours and few hundred baht that it cost to get the license.

 

I'll go for the license...especially since the IDP expires anyway after 12 months which for me is next month.

Edited October 6, 2019 by WaveHunter

[Captain Monday]

Bicycle is the best way to get around CM even though 

it is not particulary cycle friendly. Never heard of a cyclist stopped by cops even drunk with no helmet!

[WaveHunter]

18 minutes ago, Captain Monday said:

Bicycle is the best way to get around CM even though 

it is not particulary cycle friendly. Never heard of a cyclist stopped by cops even drunk with no helmet!

After riding my bike down here in Pattaya, I think CM is a VERY bike-friendly town LOL! 

 

People down here in Pattaya drive like absolute maniacs by comparison (Thai and Farangs alike).  Sometimes it makes you feel like you're a fighter pilot in the midst of a dog fight, just trying to avoid collisions here!

 

In Chiang Mai I always felt that most other people on the road had a fairly good respect for cyclists.  I rode everywhere, night and day, rainy or sunny, and in the heaviest of traffic without serious concern. 

 

I even rode, accidently on the Superhighway a few time!  Very easy to find yourself on it before you realize what you've done.  Well, maybe that was a little bit hairy! 

 

I think Chiang Mai is one of the best places to be a cyclist in all of Southeast Asia, especially if you are a hill climber!   I LOVE riding Doi Suthep!  It's the reason many come to Chiang Mai in the first place.

 

And yeah, cops were always friendly with a smile on their face as I rode by them.  Never had any problems with them at all.

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by WaveHunter

[Captain Monday]

7 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

After riding my bike down here in Pattaya, I think CM is a VERY bike-friendly town LOL! 

 

People down here in Pattaya drive like absolute maniacs by comparison (Thai and Farangs alike).  Sometimes it makes you feel like you're a fighter pilot in the midst of a dog fight, just trying to avoid collisions here!

 

In Chiang Mai I always felt that most other people on the road had a fairly good respect for cyclists.  I rode everywhere, night and day, rainy or sunny, and in the heaviest of traffic without serious concern. 

 

I even rode, accidently on the Superhighway a few time!  Very easy to find yourself on it before you realize what you've done.  Well, maybe that was a little bit hairy! 

 

I think Chiang Mai is one of the best places to be a cyclist in all of Southeast Asia, especially if you are a hill climber!   I LOVE riding Doi Suthep!  It's the reason many come to Chiang Mai in the first place.

 

And yeah, cops were always friendly with a smile on their face as I rode by them.  Never had any problems with them at all.

 

I don't know man watch out on any roads where drivers can develop good speed, especially large busses and Fortuners. They will cut you off at high speed then as you blissfully continue your ride you will realize you just escaped with your life thanks to half a second of Gods grace. Doi Suthep is a great ride. Best have somebody in a car drop you off at the zoo.