SURVEY; Health Insurance for long stayers -- needed or not?

[ICELANDMAN]

1 hour ago, gearbox said:

I voted "No" but would have voted "Yes" if any of the visa offered for long stay resembles the Malaysian MM2F. The current O-A visas and retirement extensions are just tourist visas with longer period of stay. The holders have no more rights or privileges than anyone arriving on 30 days exempt entry, so travel insurance could be used for these visas too.

Malaysian MM2F is a option

Edited October 14, 2019 by ICELANDMAN

[trucking]

3 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Maybe we should compare this to what Thais need if they want to visit other parts of the world, i.e. Europe... 

 

Nothing for the UK. Not required.

[ThaiFelix]

3 hours ago, Thailand said:

Will the results of the poll be sent to the government for them to reconsider the proposals?

I refuse to complete surveys now as they often come back to bite me.  The last survey I completed asked if I had health insurance.  Since then I have had to put up with advertising for health insurance and the govt suddenly talking about compulsory health insurance for long stayers.   Coincidence?  maybe.  But I dont think a coincidence with the advertising.

[Thaidream]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

• Allow suitable health insurance from a globally recognised company.
• Provide access to sensibly priced local insurance (in-patient only).
• Permit those who have paid into the social scheme to continue paying (this is already in place but it's unclear whether this would meet the requirements).
• Allow self-insurance, limits will need to be set, allow the use of the 400/800k needed for extensions (without draw-down).

AND

 

This should apply to ALL foreigners including tourists (travel insurance mandatory for tourists).

Completely agree- the best set of proposals yet.

 

Instead- The Thai Government has set up a fail-fail  situation attempting to mandate  health coverage for a pool of people 50-100 which limits the pool of applicants and makes the coverage too low and the cost too high.  At the very least-under these proposals everyone currently in Thailand needs to be 'grandfathered'.  There are elderly people in Thailand who have been here for decades- there is no way they can be insured unless Thailand allows them to buy into the Thai Social Security scheme which in fairness should be a solution.

 

The way the proposed police order is written it is definitely discriminatory as it applies only to a certain class of people. It would never be allowed in a Western country and I am certain it would be thrown out in Thailand if challenged in court.

 

There also must be provisions for people to self insure- one can be required to sign a statement at Immigration that they  self insure for any health issue much like the statements we already sign indicating we are aware of the  overstay laws.

 

[OneMoreFarang]

13 minutes ago, trucking said:

 

Nothing for the UK. Not required.

As we all know, the UK is not same same but different ???? 

[cmrichsw]

4 hours ago, RBOP said:

This is another money grabbing scheme targetting long stay foreigners much like the TM30 money grab. Having health insurance is wise but we should also have the option to self insure. 

100% agree

[DUNROAMIN]

1 hour ago, holy cow cm said:

I plainly believe that the renewals process should charge an additional health fee of 10,000 baht to cover all expats for all in patient and for outpatient it would cover 2000 baht and the rest is a deductible, but the terms for outpatient covering must be deciphered to be legit and not going for a hangnail or physical or consultation that the doctor tells you that you have the flu....

 

Just say from marriage/family to retiree at 100,000 expats that is a healthy total lump sum of 1,000,000,000 baht that would easily cover everything with existing conditions as expats do not run to the hospital every day-week-month-year. I would bet on average it is probably every 2- 5 years. Tourists coming on tourist visas would pay in the visa fee, and tourists coming on 30 day exempt would pay a fee at the immigration desk in order to be stamped in.

Makes sense, but unfortunately, Thais can't seen grasp common sense, somehow was overlooked in the gene pool.

[boonrawdcnx]

For crying out loud I am sick and tired of hearing this BS about insurance!

You can’t leave it to the vultures in the insurance industry that is for sure!

A friend of mine paid 75,000 Baht in premium and a few weeks ago the insurance refused to pay a hospital bill (her second in 3 years) because she had high blood pressure - which was totally unrelated to her sickness - a small kidney stone. The Thai insurance broker who took a nice commission forgot to mention the high blood pressure -which is controlled by medication -when he prepared the contract (Which was strangely in Thai and not in English) even though she specifically told him to mention it in the initial questionnaire.

I told her to challenge the decision of the insurance company and go to the consumer protection office- which she did.

 

Why does the government not create an affordable health insurance for all - and especially for every age if it will be compulsory for people staying long term - WITHOUT outpatients care that just drives up the premium.

 

 

 

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[Teee]

2 hours ago, Crossy said:

Only a fool would remain in Thailand without some form of health planning. It can (and too often does) happen to you!

 

IMHO The government should :-

• Allow suitable health insurance from a globally recognised company.
• Provide access to sensibly priced local insurance (in-patient only).
• Permit those who have paid into the social scheme to continue paying (this is already in place but it's unclear whether this would meet the requirements).
• Allow self-insurance, limits will need to be set, allow the use of the 400/800k needed for extensions (without draw-down).

AND

 

This should apply to ALL foreigners including tourists (travel insurance mandatory for tourists).

 

 

Problem will be if you have heart attack and have long stay in hospital. You use funds from your 400/800k extension money.

What then happens when you want to extend?

Opps sorry sir you have no money in your bank.

This would never work.

 

Its simple really. Cant or wont pay for health insurance then go somewhere else to live.

I suspect all you people on here expect to live in Thailand on your terms.

Fact is you are just a 'tourist' living long term therefore abide by the rules

Be thankful they let you stay.

[isaanistical]

37 minutes ago, trucking said:

 

Nothing for the UK. Not required.

Nonsense. See https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/474278/Implementing_overseas_charging_regulations_2015.pdf

 

Non EEA people may not be charged AT POINT OF TREATMENT in A&E for "services provided at an NHS hospital (whether provided at an A&E department or elsewhere in the NHS hospital, e.g. urgent healthcare centre) but not including services provided after the overseas visitor is accepted as an inpatient or at a follow-up outpatient appointment." Your Thai would be billed for the post-emergency treatment.

And "from April 2015, an immigration health charge (“health surcharge”) will be payable by non-EEA nationals who apply for a visa to enter or remain in the UK for more than six months." It's 400 quid a year. No mention of whether the alien might already have some form of insurance.............

[Teee]

2 minutes ago, isaanistical said:

Nonsense. See https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/474278/Implementing_overseas_charging_regulations_2015.pdf

 

Non EEA people may not be charged AT POINT OF TREATMENT in A&E for "services provided at an NHS hospital (whether provided at an A&E department or elsewhere in the NHS hospital, e.g. urgent healthcare centre) but not including services provided after the overseas visitor is accepted as an inpatient or at a follow-up outpatient appointment." Your Thai would be billed for the post-emergency treatment.

And "from April 2015, an immigration health charge (“health surcharge”) will be payable by non-EEA nationals who apply for a visa to enter or remain in the UK for more than six months." It's 400 quid a year. No mention of whether the alien might already have some form of insurance.............

I have already said this in other forums.

I was going thru all the process to get Long Term Visa for my fillipino gf and its £400 per year paid up in advance for term of Visa and is payable with the Visa Application.

2 and half year Visa 1700 approx then the Health Insurance fee 1000.

[isaanistical]

1 minute ago, Teee said:

I have already said this in other forums.

I was going thru all the process to get Long Term Visa for my fillipino gf and its £400 per year paid up in advance for term of Visa and is payable with the Visa Application.

2 and half year Visa 1700 approx then the Health Insurance fee 1000.

OK, hadn't seen it previously. BTW, still in the UK: "You can take out private health insurance in addition to the healthcare surcharge.  However, you will still need to pay the surcharge as part of your visa application.  The Home Office will not waive it for those who already hold or intend to purchase private health insurance." - that's for any visa of 6 months or more.

[TigerandDog]

4 hours ago, Dogbarker said:

This survey is flawed.The webfact source is not the actual police notice on the subject for  long stayers and that should be used as the correct source only . Mandatory Long stayers insurance applies to o-a not type o visa who have to demonstrate they can self support with funds in or arriving into Thailand according to the latest order ( and ubonjoe ).There are important differences between types of long stayers. For o-a mandatory -yes there are good reason for implementation.. Maybe not just from those insurance companies signed up for it  but others too.

For o type visa it should be optional ... Due to funding requisites for that visa type etc....for short stay there should be proof of adequate insurance at time of entry .( rather than crowd funding).

A  survey such as this leads to the inevitable speculation on the government implementing for everyone rather than documented  fact by the latest regulations.

Sorry Dogbarker. go and read the press releases again. The FIRST one clearly stated ALL Non-Immigrant visas, which means both O & O-A. The 2nd press release made reference to O-A only. The actual order/legislation, or whatever you want to call it, clearly says all Non-Immigrant visas. So all new O & O-A visa applications ( not extensions of stay ) require the mandatory health insurance cover from 31 October.

[wwest5829]

5 hours ago, RBOP said:

This is another money grabbing scheme targetting long stay foreigners much like the TM30 money grab. Having health insurance is wise but we should also have the option to self insure. 

I could support the Thai government covering any loss by “tourists” or “long stay” rExpats but ... the devil is in the details. 1st, present the factual statistical analysis of where the medical cost losses are being incurred. Short term tourism can be addressed the same way Europe addresses the Schengen Visa requirement for this segment. 2nd, a good deal of thought as to requiring medical insurance under a one size fits all policy. My largest risk would be a “pre-existing condition” and excluded from coverage. So, if I had another heart attack it would not be covered at any rate. Is that addressing the liability. I paid for my 11,000 USD bill. Half by an insurance policy, the remainder from my own funds so I have established (in addition to other bumps, scrapes and pharmaceutical needs) that I am not costing the Thai people in medical care expenses. If the Thai government wanted to design a policy covering their minimums at a reasonable cost to cover their losses with no exclusions and no profit motive I would be quite interested.

[baansgr]

5 hours ago, RBOP said:

This is another money grabbing scheme targetting long stay foreigners much like the TM30 money grab. Having health insurance is wise but we should also have the option to self insure. 

I don't agree with many IO rules but isn't it fair to ask an older person to cover themselves....self insurance, I take it you have funds, well surely 20 or 30k for a yearly policy isn't much to ask....I'm with Immigration on this one.

[transam]

4 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

Sorry Dogbarker. go and read the press releases again. The FIRST one clearly stated ALL Non-Immigrant visas, which means both O & O-A. The 2nd press release made reference to O-A only. The actual order/legislation, or whatever you want to call it, clearly says all Non-Immigrant visas. So all new O & O-A visa applications ( not extensions of stay ) require the mandatory health insurance cover from 31 October.

I think you are wrong....

[natway09]

The option to self insure is there but the trouble is people don"t take out the cover.

A scheme like Sweden for ALL long stayers is a great idea 

[wwest5829]

2 hours ago, Don Mega said:

I'd prefer not to fund other peoples lack of insurance.

Ah, the years spent paying car insurance that included funding “uninsured” drivers ...

[isaanistical]

3 minutes ago, natway09 said:

The option to self insure is there but the trouble is people don"t take out the cover.

A scheme like Sweden for ALL long stayers is a great idea 

Can you elaborate on the Swedish thing?

[david555]

19 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

Sorry Dogbarker. go and read the press releases again. The FIRST one clearly stated ALL Non-Immigrant visas, which means both O & O-A. The 2nd press release made reference to O-A only. The actual order/legislation, or whatever you want to call it, clearly says all Non-Immigrant visas. So all new O & O-A visa applications ( not extensions of stay ) require the mandatory health insurance cover from 31 October.

"So all new O & O-A visa applications ( not extensions of stay )"

 

So what about the extension of a ret.ext ….as that ARE the long stayers..? 

Like you formulate it they should not be in need to do insurance as they extend year after year ….

 

I presume you made a little mistake in formulating it , however I wish it was so.....

Edited October 14, 2019 by david555

[Pattaya46]

There is something very wrong with this survey.

I can't believe that more than half members think that an health insurance is not needed for someone living in Thailand ! 

[madmitch]

Poll is too wide.

 

I believe insurance should be compulsory but only inpatient. OPD totally unnecessary and purely there as bunce for the insurance companies.

[wazzadg44]

I agree-not enough scope in the survey. I am 74 and do not have health insurance(have been denied since age 70 and now have existing condition ) but I do have enough money to cover my public hospital treatment (last time 200,000 baht +/- ) so I think some consideration should be applied in these sorts of circumstances. If push came to shove I would go back home for treatment but only as a last resort. Nothing left for me there.

[Pedrogaz]

I answered no but it depends on your own financial situation. I have ample funds to pay whatever hospital or medical bills come along, so I should not be required to throw money to a grasping insurance company for a <deleted> policy.

In my opinion where a government mandates something which costs money, then they should provide a pubic option.... ie like third party motor insurance cover here costs less than a 1000 baht and that you must provide when you reregister your car every year. Let everyone pay 1000 baht and then get government healthcare for minimal cost. If you want insurance and to use private hospitals be my guest and pay a profit seeking insurance company that charges you through the nose.

I have checked for coverage....4000 a month is the least that I can obtain a policy at my age. 50K per year to get me maximum benefits of 45K for outpatient and 420K for inpatient. It's ridiculous and way more than my motor insurance for two newish vehicles.

[david555]

3 minutes ago, Pedrogaz said:

I answered no but it depends on your own financial situation. I have ample funds to pay whatever hospital or medical bills come along, so I should not be required to throw money to a grasping insurance company for a <deleted> policy.

In my opinion where a government mandates something which costs money, then they should provide a pubic option.... ie like third party motor insurance cover here costs less than a 1000 baht and that you must provide when you reregister your car every year. Let everyone pay 1000 baht and then get government healthcare for minimal cost. If you want insurance and to use private hospitals be my guest and pay a profit seeking insurance company that charges you through the nose.

I have checked for coverage....4000 a month is the least that I can obtain a policy at my age. 50K per year to get me maximum benefits of 45K for outpatient and 420K for inpatient. It's ridiculous and way more than my motor insurance for two newish vehicles.

You are 110% right …. BUT  health care is a real business for them for treatment to foreigners ….(example the ****** Hospitals …!!) and so those in charge Gov. don't want to cut in their own pockets …..by making cheap policy's & treatment  available , all other reasons given by them are fake excuses 

Edited October 14, 2019 by david555

[CLS]

In most developed countries health insurance is mandatory. Most make no difference between IPD and OPD. Some differentiate between illness and accident.

If this country wants to become a civilized country it should introduce it for everyone. Maybe 2 schemes covering the public or the private sector. In addition the choice to opt for private care, for a surcharge of course.


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[CharlieH]

(I havnt read all the previous posts so forgive if this has been said etc)

 

Alot of rural Thais pay nothing in the way of taxes etc and nothing into any social fund and avoid doing so at any cost, the rural farming communites etc which is a large portion of people. All these as I understand it get medical assistance for 30 baht and some things are charged depending on treatment.

 

So, why doesnt the Government keep this "in house" and simply introduce a health scheme for all people. They used to have a health program for foreigners at around 3k per yr baht before.

If they introduced something new at say 1-2k a month  which is way and above any contribution made by most working Thais, they could provide the service and get the revenue instead of the insurance companies.

I am certain they could work something out that covers most people and situations, yes, there will always be exceptions and perhaps extra payment, but as a basis for a good start.

 

More importantly it may well keep families together and provide a little support for those that have contributed to the Thai economy continually for many years and otherwise would not or simply could not afford outrageous money grabbing insurance companies taking advantage of the situation.

[transam]

1 minute ago, CLS said:

In most developed countries health insurance is mandatory. Most make no difference between IPD and OPD. Some differentiate between illness and accident.

If this country wants to become a civilized country it should introduce it for everyone. Maybe 2 schemes covering the public or the private sector. In addition the choice to opt for private care, for a surcharge of course.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

I think they are having trouble getting the populace to wear crash hats at the mo....And certain folk taking back hand-ers...

[wgdanson]

2 hours ago, worgeordie said:

I thought the 800,000 Thb, parked in a Thai Bank ?,

was to cover that,so they knew you had money to

pay for hospital bills.

Now I am thinking some people in authority have

shares in insurance companies,or at the very least

are been lobbied by them.

regards worgeordie

 

But of course, use that money for medical purposes and your extension is up the creek.

[wgdanson]

2 hours ago, isaanistical said:

And fyi, insurers will cover 70+ customers, but not as new risks

And fyi, I just took out a new policy with Cigna, at 71 yrs old. Expensive, but it covers up to Bht 12M.