"Cheat Sheet" for Longstay Insurance Policies

[Sheryl]

Yes, I do know this.

[Sheryl]

I have been in contact with my broker (AAInsure) and they are seeking clarifi9cation regarding foreign policies as well as Thai policies from other than the 13 companies listed but not yet gotten it.

 

It was mentioned that among other  companies with offices in Thailand, some are underwritten by companies that are on the list (e,.g. Luma = Navakij, April-Thailand =  LMG) and possible but not yet confirmed that policies  with these would be accepted by virtue of those relationships.

 

IF so - that would greatly expand the range and quality of plans available to people under age 65. April-Thailand's My Health International, for example, offers 32 million baht cover with guaranteed lifetime renewal and no rate increase based on claim history or health status.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

26 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

No policies listed in the longstay.tgia website

 

Only companies listed.

 

When you click thru the Pacific Cross entry on the TGIA website, it takes you to a Pacific Cross "Long Stay Visa" webpage that, at least for now, ONLY lists their 3 O-A specific policies.

 

Anyone who didn't know better would believe that those are the only 3 policies available from that company that would meet the government requirements. The point of my posts here is to point out that that's NOT the case, despite what a person would think just accessing the TGIA site and its links to the various insurers.

 

Edited October 14, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

30 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

From the info currently available only Pacific Cross and maybe LMG would insure until age 99 (none insure for life) and the others all cut iff coverage around age 70-75.

 

There was a Tommy Lee Jones movie about a decade back entitled "No Country for Old Men."  With the change to make that reference gender neutral, I'd say Thailand appears to be rapidly forging ahead in that direction.

 

[Sheryl]

I have been in contact with my broker (AAInsure) and they are seeking clarification regarding foreign policies as well as Thai policies from other than the 13 companies listed but not yet gotten it.

 

It was mentioned that among other  companies with offices in Thailand, some are underwritten by companies that are on the list (e,.g. Luma = Navakij, April-Thailand =  LMG) and possible but not yet confirmed that policies  with these would be accepted by virtue of those relationships.

 

IF so - that would greatly expand the range and quality of plans available to people under age 65. April-Thailand's My Health International, for example, offers 32 million baht cover with guaranteed lifetime renewal and no rate increase based on claim history or health status.

 

 

Correction - Broker informs me they have verified that April-Thailand policies WILL be accepted (if they include Outpatient) with letter/certificate  will be issued on LMG letterhead.  They are still  seeking clarification re LUMA, foreign policies, and policies form other local companies.

 

The April-Thailand policy is a good one but the OPD cover in the Essential plan is over 160K and under the Extensive and Elite Plans has no limit (just falls under the overall limit) and thus will substantially raise premiums, you'd have to get a quote to find out how much. AND they will newly enrol only up to age 65. Still well worth looking at for those under 65 but if over 65 not a possibility.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Correction - Broker informs me they have verified that April-Thailand policies WILL be accepted (if they include Outpatient) with letter/certificate  will be issued on LMG letterhead. 

 

One of the other useful, practical pieces of info that would be good to hear from someone involved in this on the insurance side of things is just what exact kind of documentation for O-A purposes are the insurers planning to provide / that Thai Immigration will want to see.

 

I'm specifically talking about 2nd year entries where an original MFA insurance notation on the original visa at issuance might no longer be applicable. And/or, if the insurance requirement as seems likely ends up formally applying to extensions of stay based on O-A or more broadly.

 

You mentioned about the April-Thailand policies not having a set OPD limit. It's the same with the higher level Pacific Cross policies -- the OPD amount is simply included in the larger total coverage amount that is listed.

 

But, absent some clarifying/certifying documentation, I could just imagine going to Immigration with my Pacific Cross policy in hand and trying to persuade them that I really do have 40,000+ in outpatient coverage, even though no specific outpatient coverage amount is listed anywhere on my policy documents, which just say "Normal and Customary."

 

[Sheryl]

Imm is not going to look at policies. There will be some sort of letter or card issued by the listed companies with standardized wording.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[tgeezer]

It was intimated that premiums for foreigners are higher than the general population, if so why would that be? Is it assumed that we require better treatment.

 I was about to buy a travel policy for five months in thailand on my retirement extension, for approx £680, I am 74 so the price appears to be less than figures quoted here.  One condition was that a return air ticket was necessary which I don’t have so am not insured. I have no medical conditions as far as I know but one needs to prepare for the worst case so what would that be and how much would it entail me paying?  Reading between the lines Immigration seems to want A-O visa holders to insure because they don’t have the cash in the bank,mwhich means that Immigration are assuming that, in normal circumstances, Bt800,000 is enough self insurance. In abnormal circumstances, the big C I suppose, one doesn’t bother to treat it at my age. 

[Sheryl]

It was intimated that premiums for foreigners are higher than the general population, if so why would that be? Is it assumed that we require better treatment.

 I was about to buy a travel policy for five months in thailand on my retirement extension, for approx £680, I am 74 so the price appears to be less than figures quoted here.  One condition was that a return air ticket was necessary which I don’t have so am not insured. I have no medical conditions as far as I know but one needs to prepare for the worst case so what would that be and how much would it entail me paying?  Reading between the lines Immigration seems to want A-O visa holders to insure because they don’t have the cash in the bank,mwhich means that Immigration are assuming that, in normal circumstances, Bt800,000 is enough self insurance. In abnormal circumstances, the big C I suppose, one doesn’t bother to treat it at my age. 

If you are 74 you need to act fast as none of the approved companies will insure you once you are 75. Indeed only 1, Pacific Cross, will insure you at 74. Once you have a polucy renewal is guaranteed till age 99.

 

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

[tgeezer]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

If you are 74 you need to act fast as none of the approved companies will insure you once you are 75. Indeed only 1, Pacific Cross, will insure you at 74. Once you have a polucy renewal is guaranteed till age 99.

 

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

Thanks for that Sheryl. I shall consider taking a look at them.   I stopped BUPA when I realised that no credit is given for past premiums. That was fifteen years ago so I have saved at least fifteen thou, toward self insurance by now; probably much more.

Since 75 is the ceiling for insurance if the government did require insurance for people with permission to stay and die in Thailand, they would be breaking the contract in the case of over 75s. Perhaps that is why it is not required. 

[Sheryl]

3 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Imm is not going to look at policies. There will be some sort of letter or card issued by the listed companies with standardized wording.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Pursuant to the above, this is the letter Pacific Cross will issue. As you will see, it is very short and does not go into policy details beyond policy dates and certifying that the TI requirement is met.

 

Insurance certificate.pdf

 

I would expect other company's forms to be very similiar.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Pursuant to the above, this is the letter Pacific Cross will issue. As you will see, it is very short and does not go into policy details beyond policy dates and certifying that the TI requirement is met.

 

Insurance certificate.pdf 29.63 kB · 2 downloads

 

I would expect other company's forms to be very similiar.

 

Interesting... That Pacific Cross letter is basically a very slightly redone version of the MoPH foreign insurance certificate letter on the Longstay TGIA website:

 

[Sheryl]

12 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Interesting... That Pacific Cross letter is basically a very slightly redone version of the MoPH foreign insurance certificate letter on the Longstay TGIA website:

 

 

Yes. This is the sort of thing Imm wants. . . simple. They are NOT going to look at policy documents, no way. They want insurance companies to do this for them.

 

Io will look for your name, passport number policy effective dates, letterhead and stamp of one of the designated insurance companies.

[Sheryl]

Please note updated attachment in the OP

 

Info on AETNA policies has been added, these are existing policies. I do nto know if others may be in the works specific to O-A visa. Email inquiry to them not answered yet.

 

Note new information for Navakij Insurance, especially as they allow enrollment up to age 80. To date that is the highest age of any of the insurers though it pertains only to the lowest level of cover. The higher plan allows up to 70.

 

I expect there will be more updates to come. Sompo website has the words "Long Stay Visa" but nothing else so they are obviously constructing something.

 

I have inquiries via LINE in to AXA and Navakij as to how long renewal is guaranteed for. Will update when/if they respond.

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

 

I have inquiries via LINE in to AXA and Navakij as to how long renewal is guaranteed for. Will update when/if they respond.

 

Inquiries answered. And not good news.

 

AXA will renew only to age 70 and Navakij will renew to 80, I think only for Plan 1.  I asked the latter several times as it makes no sense to sell new policies until age 80 but also renew only till 80 but this is what they are saying and they repeated it many times: apply up to 80 but cannot renew past age 80.

 

Unless someone just wants their O-A in order to spend time in Thailand for a few years before settling down back home, I do not consider any policy that does not guarantee lifetime or virtually lifetime renewal to be viable, and that is speaking only in terms of visa security, nit health protection. You do not want to be permanently settled in Thailand, old, and suddenly lose your permission to stay because a company terminates your policy due to age.

 

By that criteria at present (with still missing info from some companies) the only ones listed that could be considered would be (in alphabetical order):

 

AETNA if you can apply before age 60

Pacific Cross

Thaivivat

and maybe LMG (conflicting statements)

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

By that criteria at present (with still missing info from some companies) the only ones listed that could be considered would be (in alphabetical order):

 

AETNA if you can apply before age 60

Pacific Cross

Thaivivat

and maybe LMG (conflicting statements)

 

Sheryl, did you catch the post earlier today here by a member who said he had contacted Viriyah, and that they supposedly would renew up to age 100 for their O-A policies, even though the chart on their O-A webpage only includes premiums up to age 70 or so?

 

 

 

Edited October 15, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Sheryl]

48 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Sheryl, did you catch the post earlier today here by a member who said he had contacted Viriyah, and that they supposedly would renew up to age 100 for their O-A policies, even though the chart on their O-A webpage only includes premiums up to age 70 or so?

 

 

 

No, I missed that, thanks for pointing it out. I will try to get some confirmation in writing via email. Especially re guarantee of renewal.

 

That makes 1 insurer at this point available for people over 75. But the costs are ridiculous  - once over 80 you could get an Elite Visa plus real insurance for the same or less. For that matter, when you add in the additional premiums for real insurance (which one should have), even under 80 it is more expensive than the Elite route.

 

I have an elderly relative I will likely need to move to stay with me in Thailand in the coming years (really elderly, like 90, but very healthy, not on a single medication) and was wracking my brains as to how we'd afford an Elite visa plus (real) health insurance. This unfortunately doesn't offer a real alternative. In fact given that on top of this we'd have to have a real policy, we'd end up spending ways.

 

I have a feeling those who insure past 75 but don't post their rates or say "case by case" would be at least this costly as well.

[Sheryl]

Udated the attachment with new information.

[skatewash]

On 10/14/2019 at 8:12 AM, watgate said:

Sheryl- When I click on your link it says"This file does not have an app associated with it for performing this action. Please install an app or, if one is already installed, create an association in the Default Apps Settings page".  I have no idea what they are referring to. I don't have Word so can that possibly be the reason why I can't open up your link? Any info would be appreciated.

LibreOffice is a free version of Microsoft Office and they have a Calc application that is the equivalent of Excel.  Download and install LibreOffice and you can open the document using Calc. 

[skatewash]

On 10/14/2019 at 8:00 AM, Sheryl said:

Not sure why you can't open it? It is an Excel document.

The spreadsheet is too large to fit into a thread hence the attachment.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

I recommended that he use the free LibreOffice app to read the spreadsheet which will open the spreadsheet with no problem (that's how I read it as I don't have MSOffice).  However, you could Export as PDF and then people would just need a PDF viewer like the free Adobe Acrobat app to look at the spreadsheet as a PDF document.

[Sheryl]

As an indication of how well some of the tgia companies understand the O-A market, one company specifies that their product -- designed specifically for longstay O-A visa - is  "for people aged 20 to 65".

 

 

 

[Sheryl]

Update: still no product from Sompo and no information from Dhipaya.

 

Meanwhile previously listed products from Thavivat seem to have vanished from the link. I have emailed an inquery.

 

 

[Sheryl]

I have now pinned a topic which a simplified chart limited to companies which will guarantee renewal either to 99 or for life as there is no point to even looking at ones that will not,  if one is planning to permanently retire here.

 

Anyone just wanting to avail of the OA visa for a few years and not to permanently settle here, would have more options.

 

 

The pinned thread is locked, please do any discussing here

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

The pinned thread is locked, please do any discussing here

 

Sheryl, in your Word doc, you have comments re Pacific Cross saying "but not clear re enrolment age."  

 

Do you mean at what ages they'll accept new policy holders, or at what ages they'll renew existing policy holders?

 

What exactly is not clear about their policies regarding that?

 

Edited October 21, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Sheryl]

1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Sheryl, in your Word doc, you have comments re Pacific Cross saying "but not clear re enrolment age."  By that, I'm assuming you mean their ages for being willing to renew existing policies as policyholders get older.

 

What exactly is not clear about their policies regarding that?

 

 

No I do not mean renewal age. That is lifetime for all policies.

 

I mean the maximum age at which they will newly enroll someone. It is clear that the Platinum policies will enroll up to 75 but I could not find anywhere up to what age they would newly enroll for the other plans.

[Sheryl]

Update: I just got reply from them confirming all policies available up to age 75. And deductibles are an option for all plans inc the Platinum.  Chart edited accordingly.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

9 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Update: I just got reply from them confirming all policies available up to age 75. And deductibles are an option for all plans inc the Platinum.  Chart edited accordingly.

 

Have you gotten any clarity along the way of whether a policy having some deductible level is either going to be OK or not OK in terms of the insurer being willing to issue the necessary insurance certificate for Immigration?

 

For example, Pacific Cross's lowest annual deductible option for their regular (non-OA policies) AFAIR is 40,000 baht for the year, which just happens to be the same amount as the minimum required OPD coverage.

 

I've been wondering, for example, whether in the O-A world they'd issue an insurance certificate for someone who's policy coverage met the 400K/40K minimum, but also had a 40K annual deductible before the actual insurance coverage would kick in....

 

At least with Pacific Cross and their non O-A policies, the deductibles are a good way to significantly lower the standard rate policy premiums.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

18 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Update: I just got reply from them confirming all policies available up to age 75. And deductibles are an option for all plans inc the Platinum.  Chart edited accordingly.

 

I believe for new customers, I think Pacific Cross will require a standard medical exam that they'll pay for or reimburse once the applicants reach a certain age... I believe 65 and above.

 

Less than that, I think they just accept a patient's declaration of past medical history.

 

Meanwhile, here's some of the full age range premium lists I have for Pacific Cross and their various regular (non O-A) policies:

 

 

 

[Sheryl]

Are those premiums including the optional OPD cover?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

48 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Are those premiums including the optional OPD cover?

The short answer is yes...regarding the Pacific Cross rates above including their OPD coverage.

 

I know for sure the Maxima and Ultima plans by default include OPD as part of the overall coverage... And then the policy holder has the option to delete OPD for a premium deduction.

 

Premier series also includes OPD by default, but not unlimited (up to the overall policy maximums) like Maxima and Ultima...

 

 

Standard Plus and Standard extra are similar in that they include OPD by default, but with lower coverage limits both overall and for OPD...

 

 

Also, I don't know how the 1500b or 2000b per outpatient visit coverage terms, with up to 30 visits per year, is going to fare in terms of O-A compliance vs. the required 40K outpatient coverage amount.

 

Hopefully Pacific Cross can advise on that, and on the issue of whether policies with deductibles but otherwise compliant policy limits are going to be OK.

 

4 Standard Plan (1).pdf

 

3 Premier Plan.pdf

 

2 Maxima Plan.pdf

 

1 Ultima Plan.pdf

 

 

Edited October 21, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK