Absolute latest from Immigration on Insurance...

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Sheryl said:

 

The part that is unclear is if they will enforce for entries on O-A visa issued before Oct 31 effective date.  We will soon find out.

 

They will definitely enforce for entries on visas issued after then,  and it is clear they will stamp people in only for the duration of their insurance so people will need to renew policies before making last entry on the visa.  Most insurers will  allow renewal a month or two before policy expiration date.

 

Doesn't really take much bandwidth to ask for a single sheet of paper and check the name and dates on it.

 

However Jim P does not currently have a compliant policy

If people are presenting non-Thai policies to check that it meets the cover would be quite challenging I would think. 

[ThaiBunny]

2 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

They will definitely enforce for entries on visas issued after then,  and it is clear they will stamp people in only for the duration of their insurance so people will need to renew policies before making last entry on the visa.

Does this mean that Immigration officials will be checking insurance documentation on arrival at the airport?

[lupin]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Where did you get that understanding? I didn't see that clarified either way in the police order, did you?

Only in so much as it sets out that exact scenario for a second entry made on an OA effective oct31st 2019. Whether it means when the visa was issued or when the entry was made is a bit confusing

 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, lupin said:

Only in so much as it sets out that exact scenario for a second entry made on an OA effective oct31st 2019. Whether it means when the visa was issued or when the entry was made is a bit confusing

 

Exactly. Not clear. My guess is that they mean to say it will be enforced on entries even with original visas older. But whether the border officers actually do that is another question. 

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

Does this mean that Immigration officials will be checking insurance documentation on arrival at the airport?

In theory yes. 

[lupin]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Exactly. Not clear. My guess is that they mean to say it will be enforced on entries even with original visas older. But whether the border officers actually do that is another question. 

If the second entry on an exempted OA were to require health insurance, I can see a lot of people who try a bounce 3 days before the OA expiration date getting stamped in for a total of 3 days ????

 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, lupin said:

If the second entry on an exempted OA were to require health insurance, I can see a lot of people who try a bounce 3 days before the OA expiration date getting stamped in for a total of 3 days ????

 

Well if so, this could be seen as a way to "crack down" on the long standing "loophole" of people being able to get close to two years out of a one year visa. Not saying this was their intention. I don't try to read their minds. 

[lupin]

21 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Well if so, this could be seen as a way to "crack down" on the long standing "loophole" of people being able to get close to two years out of a one year visa. Not saying this was their intention. I don't try to read their minds. 

Agree... it'd be one hell of a conversation for the unsuspecting OA holder at the border or airport though.

[ubonjoe]

39 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Exactly. Not clear. My guess is that they mean to say it will be enforced on entries even with original visas older. But whether the border officers actually do that is another question.

The above highlighted line indicates it is only for new OA visas issued after October 31st. One issued before that date would not have any remarks about the insurance.

For the 2nd entry they would be looking at the remarks and if the insurance was less than a year they would only stamp a person in until the date it expires unless a person present that a person had extended the insurance coverage for another year already.

[khm2412]

Another report from this morning - October 18th - confirming the situation at Phetchaburi Immigration.

 

"I encourage everyone to check on their own personal circumstances and situation, but here’s our experience and insight:

We talked with the Sr. Immigration officer at Phetchaburi office;

He indicates the law (after October 31, 2019) requires all new OA Visas, AND  any annual retirement extensions based on those visas to have health insurance."

 

[madmen]

11 minutes ago, khm2412 said:

Another report from this morning - October 18th - confirming the situation at Phetchaburi Immigration.

 

"I encourage everyone to check on their own personal circumstances and situation, but here’s our experience and insight:

We talked with the Sr. Immigration officer at Phetchaburi office;

He indicates the law (after October 31, 2019) requires all new OA Visas, AND  any annual retirement extensions based on those visas to have health insurance."

 

old news

[khm2412]

Another report from this morning - October 18th - confirming the situation at Phetchaburi Immigration.

 

"I encourage everyone to check on their own personal circumstances and situation, but here’s our experience and insight:

We talked with the Sr. Immigration officer at Phetchaburi office;

He indicates the law (after October 31, 2019) requires all new OA Visas, AND  any annual retirement extensions based on those visas to have health insurance."

 

 

 

Not old news.  Only a few hours old and just a confirmation of the post yesterday stating the same thing.  I hope this information is useful for those in the Phetchaburi area with extensions of stay renewals happening soon, so that there are no surprises when they turn up at Tha Yang.

[PunkRockerGuy]

On 10/16/2019 at 3:02 PM, weegeesaid:

Hi John....it will be there somewhere, even in another section....read my input again...I came straight home and put it up for everyone to read...before I forgot....lol.

 

I've received exactly the same answers from Lopburi Immigration.  Non-O Extensions do not require insurance. 

[Sheryl]

That`s the way I understand it too, my extension is in April but my policy will only have 6 months to run at that time. Not worried about the provider it is with Pacific Cross, one of the quoted companies. Guess we will just have to wait and see what happens over the next few months.

Pacific Cross is saying you can add on 40k OPD cover to an existing policy. They are well aware of the new visa rule so m8ght also be willing to let you extend earlier. Call them.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Sheryl]

3 hours ago, Jim P said:

You right Sheryl, it will in fact be April 2021 as I will be doing exactly that. Things should be pretty clear by then. I can`t see immigration asking for insurance at the airport or border.

Oh, they will be. Just not clear yet if they will ask it only for visas issued after 31st or also for new entries on visas issued earlier, especially second entries. Watch this space after the 31st.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

[Sheryl]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

If people are presenting non-Thai policies to check that it meets the cover would be quite challenging I would think. 

 

As I have explained repeatedly Imm will not examine policies. Full stop.

They will look for:

1. Embassy notation (first entry O-A issued after 31st only) OR
2. Certificate issued by the insurance company. One page standard form.

Not clear at this time if they will accept this form on letterhead of a foreign company at other than 1st entry.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

[Sheryl]

Does this mean that Immigration officials will be checking insurance documentation on arrival at the airport?

Yes. But only documentation as described above.

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[Sheryl]

In view of report that previously posted flier regarding CM Imm rules was forged and inaccurate, it and all posts citing it hsve been removed.

 

Origin is under investigation.

 

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

[Sheryl]

Other posted documents not from Immigration and dating prior to the police order have also been removed to minimize confusion.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[yamadajr]

2 hours ago, khm2412 said:

Another report from this morning - October 18th - confirming the situation at Phetchaburi Immigration.

 

"I encourage everyone to check on their own personal circumstances and situation, but here’s our experience and insight:

We talked with the Sr. Immigration officer at Phetchaburi office;

He indicates the law (after October 31, 2019) requires all new OA Visas, AND  any annual retirement extensions based on those visas to have health insurance."

 

So, based on the discussions, your understanding is that insurance is only required for new O-A visas issued after 31 October 2019 and any subsequent annual retirement extensions based only on those new O-A visas issued after 31 October 2019?  Is that correct?  This was my initial thought when reading the police order. Thanks.

[Martyp]

12 minutes ago, yamadajr said:

So, based on the discussions, your understanding is that insurance is only required for new O-A visas issued after 31 October 2019 and any subsequent annual retirement extensions based only on those new O-A visas issued after 31 October 2019?  Is that correct?  This was my initial thought when reading the police order. Thanks.

“He indicates the law (after October 31, 2019) requires all new OA Visas, AND  any annual retirement extensions based on those visas to have health insurance."

 

That statement seems to address those who get an O-A visa starting October 31 but does not address whether people who arrived with O-A visa in the past and are currently on extensions of stay are required to have insurance when applying for future extensions. It is that ambiguity that fuels these discussions.

[yamadajr]

“He indicates the law (after October 31, 2019) requires all new OA Visas, AND  any annual retirement extensions based on those visas to have health insurance."
 
That statement seems to address those who get an O-A visa starting October 31 but does not address whether people who arrived with O-A visa in the past and are currently on extensions of stay are required to have insurance when applying for future extensions. It is that ambiguity that fuels these discussions.

Yes, this is exactly why I was asking in case he had any further clarification. In my case, it would be whether insurance is required for a first annual retirement extension based on a previously issued pre-31 October 2019 O-A visa.


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[Martyp]

6 minutes ago, yamadajr said:

Yes, this is exactly why I was asking in case he had any further clarification. In my case, it would be whether insurance is required for a first annual retirement extension based on a previously issued pre-31 October 2019 O-A visa.


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Yes. That is the final link in the chain.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 hours ago, madmen said:

old news

 

It's not "old news" when the quasi-official advice being dispensed from ThaiVisa continues to be that retirement extensions of stay from O-A visas won't be impacted at all.

[flexomike]

22 hours ago, madmen said:

Not even close. One requires 800k while the other required zip in a thai bank how is that the same ?

The only maybe are the 65k income earners that seem to be on good wicket and why are they not required to have insurance but in reality they are very few and far between eg oz pension is 35k as of last month 

I came in on an OA in 2016, been on extensions since according to what is being said I have to have insurance for my next extension, but my friend who came at the same time on an  O doesn't,  this is what doesn't make sense, but we both need 800,000 in the bank 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

12 minutes ago, flexomike said:

I came in on an OA in 2016, been on extensions since according to what is being said I have to have insurance for my next extension, but my friend who came at the same time on an  O doesn't,  this is what doesn't make sense, but we both need 800,000 in the bank 

 

At this point, I'd say it's not certain that extensions of stay from pre 10/31/19 O-A visas will be covered by the insurance rule.

 

But, it's say it's increasingly looking like extensions of stay from O-A visas issued from 10/31/19 onward are likely to fall under the insurance rule.

 

But there's no clear or official interpretation on anything of this relating to extensions of stay as yet that has come forth from Immigration HQ -- just interpretations being offered at various outlying Immigration offices that members here are reporting.

 

[Aforek]

_{I have not read the 22 pages, but somebody sent me this text; look at the last paragraph} 

_{For the first year, they accept that we get a foreign insurance, but the second year, they say we must buy an insurance in a thai compagny}

 

http://longstay.tgia.org/home/guidelineoa

 

 

[Martyp]

2 minutes ago, Aforek said:

_{I have not read the 22 pages, but somebody sent me this text; look at the last paragraph} 

_{For the first year, they accept that we get a foreign insurance, but the second year, they say we must buy an insurance in a thai compagny}

 

http://longstay.tgia.org/home/guidelineoa

 

 

Yes. We've seen that. You should contact the insurance companies and inquire about their policies. I mean ask them about the real policies not on the government website. Ask if they will meet the new Immigration requirements.

 

I appreciate that there may be difficulties with giving up insurance in your home country. I'm just making the point that there are legitimate policies to be purchased with the Thai companies.

[flexomike]

30 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

At this point, I'd say it's not certain that extensions of stay from pre 10/31/19 O-A visas will be covered by the insurance rule.

 

But, it's say it's increasingly looking like extensions of stay from O-A visas issued from 10/31/19 onward are likely to fall under the insurance rule.

 

But there's no clear or official interpretation on anything of this relating to extensions of stay as yet that has come forth from Immigration HQ -- just interpretations being offered at various outlying Immigration offices that members here are reporting.

 

my biggest worry is that I am leaving the country for five days in mid November, what are the chances they don't let me in because of lack of insurance, could get ugly, I already have my re-entry permit

[Pib]

Today I went to the Chaeng Wattana (Bangkok) immigration Office (my servicing office) to ask about the insurance requirement.  Like will it apply to me....I'm now on my 11th retirement extension of stay with an underlying OA Visa from 2008.

 

I got to set down with an immigration officer in the Long Stay Section which is the section where a person goes to apply for their annual extension of stay....like I have done 11 times with the 11th time being just a few months ago.  

 

I ask the officer I want to know if the insurance requirement applies in my situation...want more info on the insurance requirement.  I do not say I have an OA visa from Christmas past.  The officer looks at my numerous extension of stay stamps in my passport and looks for the supporting visa in the passport. When she sees it's an OA visa she makes a facial expression indicating she going to give me bad news.  But instead she says follow me and leads me over to another immigration officer to talk to.  I assume this officer to be of the supervisory type as she's in her 50's and occupying the desk that other immigration officers take docs to for final review and approval....final sign off...like the boss for the section. 

 

 

-  For the next 10 to 15 minutes I talk to this officer and she spoke pretty good English.  Once again this officer started scanning thru my numerous extension of stay stamps....back to the OA visa stamp.  And when seeing the OA visa from 2008 there is the bad news is coming facial expression again.  She said, "Yes I will be required to have insurance to extend again."   The new requirement applies all all OA visas issued "before, on, or after" 31 Oct 2019.  No grandfathering....it even applied to my 2008 OA visa.  

 

-  During those 10 to 15 minutes I asked the question at least 3 times in various forms like pointing out my OA visa is from 2008...."an old visa"....I've got 11 extension of stay since that 2008 OA visa expired---she said that didn't make a difference.  The new rule did not apply just to OAs issued after 31 Oct 2019....it applied to all OAs...past, current, and future.

 

- She said my only option to avoid the insurance requirement was to switch to a Non-O visa.  We talk for 5 or so minutes on the two ways to do that...either at a Thai embassy outside of Thailand or going the Exempt to Non O method within Thailand.  

 

- So, now that I have had the chance to set down with a supervisory level immigration officer at CW in the very section that processes extension application....the section that has given me 11 extensions of stay so far, I'm fully, 100% convinced the insurance requirement applies to OAs issued "before, on, or after 31 Oct 2019."   No grandfathering.   And I will need to get a Non-O before my current extension of stay expires in late 2020 in order to avoid the insurance requirement.  

 

-  Yeap, I'm now 100% convinced.  And what I was told at CW is in sync with what some other immigration offices like Chiang Mai are telling people.  At least now I will not be reading hundreds of more posts where different people are expressing their opinion on this issue since I've now heard it from the horse's mouth--a CW supervisory level immigration officer....my servicing immigration office.  Didn't get the answer I wanted to hear, but I guess that is life. 

 

- This change is surely going to have a huge negative impact on many especially since the new requirement does not accept foreign medical insurance....foreign medical insurance that is better and lower cost than Thai insurance.