For half Thai, which office to change english surname

[gregchambers]

Hi, the translation of my son's surname has gone somewhat awry on his ID card (this being my surname). It was originally translated from English to Thai on the birth certificate at the Bangkok hospital where he was born. At that time, 1991, the birth cert was Thai only. Once translated back to English for the ID card it has come out quite different to what I was expecting, presumably by the office in Petchabun where it was issued. The Thai characters have not changed.I do not live with the family and do not visit Thailand any more but was looking to get him British citizenship via from UKF as never married. My suggestion to his mother was that he could keep the same Thai characters in his surname but get it translated to my surname. She does not think this is possible or know which office to go to? Any thoughts? The alternative for UKF is a DNA test, which can be done by an approved co with tests in Thailand and UK collated by the UK company but racks up the cost a bit.

 

The registrar in the hospital seems either vindictive or incompetent as she neither put the mother's ID number nor my passport no on the form. She also classed the child as an illegal immigrant despite having a Thai mother, later changed by the mother, so the ID card number is now different to the one on the original birth certificate (the fist letter in the ID card classifies the person, so it has gone from 7 to 5, the latter now correctly indicating Thai citizenship but with a dual national status). All of which would give a Home Office worker a good laugh, I guess.

[dabhand]

Can only suggest that the mother approaches an official translation office, armed with details of the english translation that would match your surname. Then have the office issue their translation of the Thai birth certificate. There are a number of such offices in central Bangkok near to UK and US embassies.

Then return to the same Petchaburi office that issued the ID card and request a revised ID be issued with the english name as per the official translation. Worth a shot?

 

What interested me with your story was the issuance of the original birth certificate and the nationality error. This was the  exact same as happened with my son, similarly born in 1991 at Chula  Hospital in Bangkok. He also was  classified as a 'non Thai' with a '7'' ID suffix, despite clearly having a Thai mother. It needed the involvement of the Ministry of the  interior and the issuance of a petition before the BC was annotated on the reverse side by the Registrar. The ID number was also changed, including a '5' suffix.

 

This was only concluded over 3 years after his birth, but I'm not sure when the error was first spotted as I only  became aware of the issue many years later. That being when I applied for his UK passport. This had the added complication, at the time, as I only married his mother a few years after his birth. That took a visit to the UK embassy, confirmation of my UK domicile (I had been working outside  the UK for a number of years) plus a submission to the Liverpool passport office for their review, before the passport application was approved. My younger son had no such issues, he was born after marriage and his passport was issued in short order. As they were applied for at the same time, the delay to my eldest son was a bit fraught in case his was rejected. Luckily it was alright on the night!! 

 

Good luck with getting your issue fully resolved.

[soalbundy]

This vindictiveness surprises me. when my son was born in Prasat/Surin I had no such trouble even though we are not married. I was even asked what nationality I wanted my son to be registered as. He is registered as Thai and I have no intention of getting him a British passport as his life here (he has two houses and a lot of farmland ) would be considerably better here than in the UK, alone that he speaks and can read fluent English is a passport to success here.

[gregchambers]

I think the mother annoyed them by refusing to register the birth until I came over from the UK so she could get my name on the birth certificate (I suppose being incorrect actually insulated me from any child support issues so maybe the registrar was doing me a favour!). It was Chula hospital as well and unmarried - I have a vague recollection of different laws on Thai nationality for mothers who were unmarried to foreigners that was later changed, which possibly made it easier for the mother to change to Thai nationality (which sounds the wrong way round but TIT). I am waiting a copy of the "new" birth certificate, which is a different one to the original and not amended.

 

He will inherit a house and nice chunk of upcountry land from the mother eventually but seems unable or unwilling to hunker down to a job at Thai rates, British nationality would let him do grunt work here at about ten times the rate they get there whilst having minimal living costs by staying in my house. In theory anyway.

[hansnl]

2 hours ago, soalbundy said:

This vindictiveness surprises me. when my son was born in Prasat/Surin I had no such trouble even though we are not married. I was even asked what nationality I wanted my son to be registered as. He is registered as Thai and I have no intention of getting him a British passport as his life here (he has two houses and a lot of farmland ) would be considerably better here than in the UK, alone that he speaks and can read fluent English is a passport to success here.

Remember: in the eyes of all Thai including officials he will always be "half Thai".

As such it might be a good idea to get him a second passport.

You will probably not agree, but better get the idea into your head that this is Thailand and things can change easily.

[Tony125]

2 hours ago, soalbundy said:

This vindictiveness surprises me. when my son was born in Prasat/Surin I had no such trouble even though we are not married. I was even asked what nationality I wanted my son to be registered as. He is registered as Thai and I have no intention of getting him a British passport as his life here (he has two houses and a lot of farmland ) would be considerably better here than in the UK, alone that he speaks and can read fluent English is a passport to success here.

You should still get him a British passport, reason, if he has money and desire he can travel the world on a British passport to far more places and easier. If things go bad here can easily move to England or a former Brit colony.

[Fred31]

5 hours ago, gregchambers said:

I think the mother annoyed them by refusing to register the birth until I came over from the UK so she could get my name on the birth certificate (I suppose being incorrect actually insulated me from any child support issues so maybe the registrar was doing me a favour!). It was Chula hospital as well and unmarried - I have a vague recollection of different laws on Thai nationality for mothers who were unmarried to foreigners that was later changed, which possibly made it easier for the mother to change to Thai nationality (which sounds the wrong way round but TIT). I am waiting a copy of the "new" birth certificate, which is a different one to the original and not amended.

 

He will inherit a house and nice chunk of upcountry land from the mother eventually but seems unable or unwilling to hunker down to a job at Thai rates, British nationality would let him do grunt work here at about ten times the rate they get there whilst having minimal living costs by staying in my house. In theory anyway.

"Insulated me from child support" -- what a great UK guy, he?

[Kenchamp]

7 hours ago, soalbundy said:

This vindictiveness surprises me. when my son was born in Prasat/Surin I had no such trouble even though we are not married. I was even asked what nationality I wanted my son to be registered as. He is registered as Thai and I have no intention of getting him a British passport as his life here (he has two houses and a lot of farmland ) would be considerably better here than in the UK, alone that he speaks and can read fluent English is a passport to success here.

Surely it would be better to get your son a British passport and then let him decide if he wishes to use it in the future. 

[StevieAus]

I cannot comment on the original question but would certainly support the views on obtaining a British passport.

My Thai wife lived in Australia for a number of years and has Australian citizenship and passport our daughter has Thai, Australian and British citizenship and passports.

We live in a Thailand and travel overseas regularly in most cases not needing visas.

You can never predict the future and what your son may wish to do, obtaining the passport is a good investment.

[LukKrueng]

So many weird stories on this thread...

Usually when a child is born at a hospital - the hospital will do the paperwork/registration at the district office. They don't make up details, but actually ask the parents to bring the relevant documents within so many days. If the parents don't supply the docs in time the hospital will give the parents the hospital docs so the parents can go to the district office in person.

Never heard of an ID digit designated to identify dual citizenship (as you refer to the digit 5). It might actually indicate a correction of ID (from the non-citizen) but nothing to do with a second nationality. Also, when 1 of the parents is Thai there is no question about nationality - the child is Thai

[Hanuman2547]

19 hours ago, Tony125 said:

You should still get him a British passport, reason, if he has money and desire he can travel the world on a British passport to far more places and easier. If things go bad here can easily move to England or a former Brit colony.

The USA is a former British colony.  I don't think it will be too easy to move there.  However, a bit easier using a Brit passport instead of a Thai one.  

[Hanuman2547]

My luk krueng sons both have Thai passports and ID cards.  They were both born in the USA and got Thai passports while there.  We lived in Thailand for quite a few years but returned to the USA so that they could go to high school and university there.  Their Thai ID cards both start with the number "5".  I seriously doubt either of them will ever return to Thailand other than for a holiday.  They are busy with their lives and careers in the USA.  

[gregchambers]

If you search for Thai ID numbers on google you will find that the first number does indeed signify different states of nationality or legality (wikipedia the easiest to understand, though the definitions of the first digit vary according to which site you read!).

 

Imagine the outcry if the UK introduced ID cards and had the same idea!

 

The Thais currently have no problems with dual nationality so there is no downside to getting a British passport. The laws on nationality of Thai/farang children did change at one point, post 1991. I did pay support post relationship with Thai mother so never had any child support problems but it would have <deleted> me off if I had to pay UK levels, as demanded by our laws, into what was then a third world country outside of Bangkok, especially as the default for disappearing local husbands was zero baht.

[gregchambers]

In the original document the letter ร has an accent above it, in the new on it does not... would this make a huge difference?