Democrats set Thursday vote on U.S. House path in Trump impeachment probe

[heybruce]

36 minutes ago, candide said:

Reaction from Trump:

“I have the real polls. I have the real polls,” Trump claimed. “The CNN polls are fake. The FOX polls have always been lousy, I tell them they ought to get themselves a new pollster.

????

Can "dangerously detached from reality" be an article of impeachment?

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Can "dangerously detached from reality" be an article of impeachment?

It could be. 

[atyclb]

8 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

you guys dont see it.

 

Here, try this scenario:

 

December 2019-some whatever Articles of Impeachment are voted out.

January 2020-the Repub Senate sets the rules. Off the trail for Liz and Bernie and Kamala, assuming she isnt in the dust with Beto. Same with Cory.

Late Jan  2020-The Prosecution makes its opening statement. Trumps lawyers reserve their right. Testimony starts. Off the trail for the Dem Candidates. Impeachment dominates the news cycle.

Late January-Februry 2020-cross examination of witnesses against Trump began an exploration of what we can call the sore loser, deep state theory, because in trials, you always set up the theory of your case before you even present any evidence. If the alleged whistleblower testifies, he is grilled about his connections to Schiff, Biden etc. Every witness is cross examined as to their Democratic connections. Hannity and Tucker blast out verbatim testimony favourable to Trump to their combined 7 million viewers. No one pays any attention to the dem candidates as they just sit there and listen. Campaigning is ignored. All the objections to the insinuations of the defense are overruled by the Repub Senate.

Feb 2020-Trumps lawyers make their opening statement, alleging that the entire proceeding is a concoted conspiracy between the Democrats, Russians AND Ukrainians to overturn the election. The Press goes wild. Trumps fundraising goes through the roof. The Dem candidates are ignored.

Feb-March 2020- Various Presidential Historians and Constituional Scholars testify about the Presidents powers to do this and that, and how what Trump did was no different, etc etc. The Dem candidates try to sneak out and campaign, and get villfied for it by the more responsible journalists.

March 2020-Judge Sullivan tosses out Flynns conviction and goes apesh*t on the Mueller team (for those of you who dont know Judge Sullivan, look up the Senator Stevens case). The press goes wild.

March 2020-Hillary Clinton, Podesta, the Clinton Tech dudes, Comey, Brennan, Strzok, McCabe, Rosenstein, Page et al are subpoenaed to testify. They all plead the 5th, as some of them have been notified they are already targets of an investigation. The Press goes wild. The Dem candidates are ignored.

April 2020-Schiff is then called as a witness. He takes the 5th. Then one of the deepstaters cuts a deal and testifies. Thats all thats on the news 24/7. Folks dont even realize who is running for President

April-May 2020-The Senate votes to aquitt. Oh my, what do the Pres candidates do? Or the Dems running for relection?

 

Meanwhile, Trump is fundraising like crazy at rally after rally. Mayor Pete and the two socialists are now splitting the vote coming into the convention.

 

Summer 2020-just as the convention starts, Comey et al are indicted. 

 

Now Im sure that the dedicated Trump haters will fill page after page of alternative scenarios and thats fine, life is variable and s**t happens. It doesnt matter. You cant argue with the plausability of what I have set forth. And thats the point. Even the Mets can win the pennant.

 

When you strike at the King, you must kill him. The Dems have been making these little cuts and just annoying him. Now is his chance. Do you honestly think that Trump will let this chance go by without making it a media spectacle? Do you think the Repubs will put any limits on what Trumps lawyers can say, do, or present? Can you imagine having some CIA dude admit that there is a "deep state"?

 

The bottom line of the impeachment vote is that the Dems have put up the circus tent and given Don the keys, an audience, and a bunch of clowns to staff it. It truly is the dumbest thing I have seen in politics. And its no good for the country.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

dam n, you should have been a lawyer

[atyclb]

3 hours ago, heybruce said:

Can "dangerously detached from reality" be an article of impeachment?

 

what, impeach tvf members?? here here, order in the court

[ExpatOK]

10 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

you guys dont see it.

 

Here, try this scenario:

 

December 2019-some whatever Articles of Impeachment are voted out.

January 2020-the Repub Senate sets the rules. Off the trail for Liz and Bernie and Kamala, assuming she isnt in the dust with Beto. Same with Cory.

Late Jan  2020-The Prosecution makes its opening statement. Trumps lawyers reserve their right. Testimony starts. Off the trail for the Dem Candidates. Impeachment dominates the news cycle.

Late January-Februry 2020-cross examination of witnesses against Trump began an exploration of what we can call the sore loser, deep state theory, because in trials, you always set up the theory of your case before you even present any evidence. If the alleged whistleblower testifies, he is grilled about his connections to Schiff, Biden etc. Every witness is cross examined as to their Democratic connections. Hannity and Tucker blast out verbatim testimony favourable to Trump to their combined 7 million viewers. No one pays any attention to the dem candidates as they just sit there and listen. Campaigning is ignored. All the objections to the insinuations of the defense are overruled by the Repub Senate.

Feb 2020-Trumps lawyers make their opening statement, alleging that the entire proceeding is a concoted conspiracy between the Democrats, Russians AND Ukrainians to overturn the election. The Press goes wild. Trumps fundraising goes through the roof. The Dem candidates are ignored.

Feb-March 2020- Various Presidential Historians and Constituional Scholars testify about the Presidents powers to do this and that, and how what Trump did was no different, etc etc. The Dem candidates try to sneak out and campaign, and get villfied for it by the more responsible journalists.

March 2020-Judge Sullivan tosses out Flynns conviction and goes apesh*t on the Mueller team (for those of you who dont know Judge Sullivan, look up the Senator Stevens case). The press goes wild.

March 2020-Hillary Clinton, Podesta, the Clinton Tech dudes, Comey, Brennan, Strzok, McCabe, Rosenstein, Page et al are subpoenaed to testify. They all plead the 5th, as some of them have been notified they are already targets of an investigation. The Press goes wild. The Dem candidates are ignored.

April 2020-Schiff is then called as a witness. He takes the 5th. Then one of the deepstaters cuts a deal and testifies. Thats all thats on the news 24/7. Folks dont even realize who is running for President

April-May 2020-The Senate votes to aquitt. Oh my, what do the Pres candidates do? Or the Dems running for relection?

 

Meanwhile, Trump is fundraising like crazy at rally after rally. Mayor Pete and the two socialists are now splitting the vote coming into the convention.

 

Summer 2020-just as the convention starts, Comey et al are indicted. 

 

Now Im sure that the dedicated Trump haters will fill page after page of alternative scenarios and thats fine, life is variable and s**t happens. It doesnt matter. You cant argue with the plausability of what I have set forth. And thats the point. Even the Mets can win the pennant.

 

When you strike at the King, you must kill him. The Dems have been making these little cuts and just annoying him. Now is his chance. Do you honestly think that Trump will let this chance go by without making it a media spectacle? Do you think the Repubs will put any limits on what Trumps lawyers can say, do, or present? Can you imagine having some CIA dude admit that there is a "deep state"?

 

The bottom line of the impeachment vote is that the Dems have put up the circus tent and given Don the keys, an audience, and a bunch of clowns to staff it. It truly is the dumbest thing I have seen in politics. And its no good for the country.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dude, you hit the nail on the head.  This is EXACTLY what's going to happen.  Trump has laid the trap and his opponents and those who hate him don't see it at all.  Excellent.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, ExpatOK said:

Dude, you hit the nail on the head.  This is EXACTLY what's going to happen.  Trump has laid the trap and his opponents and those who hate him don't see it at all.  Excellent.

Funny. 45 is acting very upset that he is being impeached. I think his fans give him much more credit than he deserves. Yes he's a great demagogue and propagandist but it's very clear he never wanted to be impeached and he is going to be impeached. 

[Crazy Alex]

11 hours ago, heybruce said:

Mueller was investigating.  He wrote the report on the investigation.  The report clearly stated that the investigation did not exonerate Trump.  What part of that are you unclear on?

 

The prosecutions will take place in court.  Mueller will not be the prosecutor. 

I'm unclear on nothing. All Americans have the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. Thus, no American need be exonerated. What part of that are you unclear on?

 

And as to any possible prosecutions, it doesn't matter who the prosecutor is. That changes NOTHING in context of the debate over the presumption of innocence.

[Crazy Alex]

21 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Funny. 45 is acting very upset that he is being impeached. I think his fans give him much more credit than he deserves. Yes he's a great demagogue and propagandist but it's very clear he never wanted to be impeached and he is going to be impeached. 

We've been hearing Trump is going to be impeached for over two years now.

[Crazy Alex]

6 hours ago, heybruce said:

Can "dangerously detached from reality" be an article of impeachment?

Of course not. Or can you tell us how "dangerously detached from reality" is a high crime or misdemeanor?

 

A little more reality: "dangerously detached from reality" would be a 25th Amendment cause of action, not one of impeachment.

 

You should probably read up on impeachment and the 25th Amendment. There seems to be some confusion.

[AussieBob18]

11 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

you guys dont see it.

 

Here, try this scenario:

 

December 2019-some whatever Articles of Impeachment are voted out.

January 2020-the Repub Senate sets the rules. Off the trail for Liz and Bernie and Kamala, assuming she isnt in the dust with Beto. Same with Cory.

Late Jan  2020-The Prosecution makes its opening statement. Trumps lawyers reserve their right. Testimony starts. Off the trail for the Dem Candidates. Impeachment dominates the news cycle.

Late January-Februry 2020-cross examination of witnesses against Trump began an exploration of what we can call the sore loser, deep state theory, because in trials, you always set up the theory of your case before you even present any evidence. If the alleged whistleblower testifies, he is grilled about his connections to Schiff, Biden etc. Every witness is cross examined as to their Democratic connections. Hannity and Tucker blast out verbatim testimony favourable to Trump to their combined 7 million viewers. No one pays any attention to the dem candidates as they just sit there and listen. Campaigning is ignored. All the objections to the insinuations of the defense are overruled by the Repub Senate.

Feb 2020-Trumps lawyers make their opening statement, alleging that the entire proceeding is a concoted conspiracy between the Democrats, Russians AND Ukrainians to overturn the election. The Press goes wild. Trumps fundraising goes through the roof. The Dem candidates are ignored.

Feb-March 2020- Various Presidential Historians and Constituional Scholars testify about the Presidents powers to do this and that, and how what Trump did was no different, etc etc. The Dem candidates try to sneak out and campaign, and get villfied for it by the more responsible journalists.

March 2020-Judge Sullivan tosses out Flynns conviction and goes apesh*t on the Mueller team (for those of you who dont know Judge Sullivan, look up the Senator Stevens case). The press goes wild.

March 2020-Hillary Clinton, Podesta, the Clinton Tech dudes, Comey, Brennan, Strzok, McCabe, Rosenstein, Page et al are subpoenaed to testify. They all plead the 5th, as some of them have been notified they are already targets of an investigation. The Press goes wild. The Dem candidates are ignored.

April 2020-Schiff is then called as a witness. He takes the 5th. Then one of the deepstaters cuts a deal and testifies. Thats all thats on the news 24/7. Folks dont even realize who is running for President

April-May 2020-The Senate votes to aquitt. Oh my, what do the Pres candidates do? Or the Dems running for relection?

 

Meanwhile, Trump is fundraising like crazy at rally after rally. Mayor Pete and the two socialists are now splitting the vote coming into the convention.

 

Summer 2020-just as the convention starts, Comey et al are indicted. 

 

Now Im sure that the dedicated Trump haters will fill page after page of alternative scenarios and thats fine, life is variable and s**t happens. It doesnt matter. You cant argue with the plausability of what I have set forth. And thats the point. Even the Mets can win the pennant.

 

When you strike at the King, you must kill him. The Dems have been making these little cuts and just annoying him. Now is his chance. Do you honestly think that Trump will let this chance go by without making it a media spectacle? Do you think the Repubs will put any limits on what Trumps lawyers can say, do, or present? Can you imagine having some CIA dude admit that there is a "deep state"?

 

The bottom line of the impeachment vote is that the Dems have put up the circus tent and given Don the keys, an audience, and a bunch of clowns to staff it. It truly is the dumbest thing I have seen in politics. And its no good for the country.

 

AND

In 2021 both the House and the Senate are controlled by the GOP with strong majorities.

All the Dems (still in House) involved in the Russia Hoax, the Mueller Investigation, and the House Impeachment farce, are impeached by the GOP House and found guilty in the GOP Senate and dismissed.  

Criminal cases already started against Obama operatives get full support by DOJ and press full steam ahead.

Trump and the GOP destroy all liberal progressive policies and rules and Government funding programs that have held USA back both economically and socially, especially in the Education system. They wont mandate right wing views be taught or preached to gullible children - they will mandate NO political views be taught or preached.

AND

In 2024 Trump's endorsed candidate for the POTUS is elected - most likely a strong female candidate (like Thatcher?).

 

Most liberal progressives have given up by now, and the remaining Dems (like Jeff Van Drew amd Collin Peterson) reform and regroup the Dem Party to be more appealing to the People of a Nation that has overwhelmingly rejected liberal progressive globalist policies, and overwhelmingly supported Nationalism and Patriotism and the Rule of Law.

 

 

   

 

 

 

 

[heybruce]

36 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

I'm unclear on nothing. All Americans have the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. Thus, no American need be exonerated. What part of that are you unclear on?

 

And as to any possible prosecutions, it doesn't matter who the prosecutor is. That changes NOTHING in context of the debate over the presumption of innocence.

All Americans have the presumption of innocence in a court of law.  Trump is not in court yet.  What part of that are you unclear on?

 

The debate was on exoneration.  The Mueller report clearly stated that the investigation did no exonerate Trump.  You and others are can't seem to accept that.

[heybruce]

38 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

Of course not. Or can you tell us how "dangerously detached from reality" is a high crime or misdemeanor?

 

A little more reality: "dangerously detached from reality" would be a 25th Amendment cause of action, not one of impeachment.

 

You should probably read up on impeachment and the 25th Amendment. There seems to be some confusion.

You don't understand American humor, do you?

[Crazy Alex]

1 minute ago, heybruce said:

All Americans have the presumption of innocence in a court of law.  Trump is not in court yet.  What part of that are you unclear on?

 

The debate was on exoneration.  The Mueller report clearly stated that the investigation did no exonerate Trump.  You and others are can't seem to accept that.

I see. So Trump is NOT presumed innocent until he enters a court of law? That doesn't make logical sense. Using your logic, a person being investigated isn't presumed innocent until they reach a court of law. That is obviously nonsense.

 

As for exoneration, I freely admit the Mueller report states it didn't exonerate Trump. That's not debatable. What's debatable is the entire concept of exoneration. What part of that don't you understand?

 

But maybe you can help me. If your concept of exoneration is legitimate, show me the database of all the people who were investigated and exonerated. Obviously, there will be millions of examples of this.

[Crazy Alex]

3 minutes ago, heybruce said:

You don't understand American humor, do you?

Your surrender on the issue is noted.

[Chomper Higgot]

8 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

I see. So Trump is NOT presumed innocent until he enters a court of law? That doesn't make logical sense. Using your logic, a person being investigated isn't presumed innocent until they reach a court of law. That is obviously nonsense.

 

As for exoneration, I freely admit the Mueller report states it didn't exonerate Trump. That's not debatable. What's debatable is the entire concept of exoneration. What part of that don't you understand?

 

But maybe you can help me. If your concept of exoneration is legitimate, show me the database of all the people who were investigated and exonerated. Obviously, there will be millions of examples of this.

Trump, within the impeachment process, is not subject to ‘criminal investigation’, therefore (pay attention now) the Constitutional and Legal privileges extended to those subject to ‘criminal investigation’ are of no relevance.

 

SDNY and NYAG investigations/Grand Juries examining Trump’s activities will have a presumption of innocence, but that’s for later, after Trump leaves office.

[atyclb]

34 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

38 minutes ago, heybruce said:

All Americans have the presumption of innocence in a court of law.  Trump is not in court yet.  What part of that are you unclear on?

 

The debate was on exoneration.  The Mueller report clearly stated that the investigation did no exonerate Trump.  You and others are can't seem to accept that.

I see. So Trump is NOT presumed innocent until he enters a court of law? That doesn't make logical sense. Using your logic, a person being investigated isn't presumed innocent until they reach a court of law. That is obviously nonsense.

 

As for exoneration, I freely admit the Mueller report states it didn't exonerate Trump. That's not debatable. What's debatable is the entire concept of exoneration. What part of that don't you understand?

 

But maybe you can help me. If your concept of exoneration is legitimate, show me the database of all the people who were investigated and exonerated. Obviously, there will be millions of examples of this.

 

seems this would be a simple concept for any 1st year law student to understand. heck i've never been a law student and even i understand it.

 

furthermore, this is tvf and we reserve the right to be nonsensical and as a matter of face we even demand it.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, atyclb said:

 

seems this would be a simple concept for any 1st year law student to understand. heck i've never been a law student and even i understand it

It's a simple concept to understand for anyone who paid attention in Civics. 

 

Impeachment is not a criminal process, the privileges extended to those under criminal investigation are irrelevant to impeachment. 

 

Quit your secondhand gaslighting. 

[Crazy Alex]

28 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Trump, within the impeachment process, is not subject to ‘criminal investigation’, therefore (pay attention now) the Constitutional and Legal privileges extended to those subject to ‘criminal investigation’ are of no relevance.

 

SDNY and NYAG investigations/Grand Juries examining Trump’s activities will have a presumption of innocence, but that’s for later, after Trump leaves office.

I see. So only people being investigated have the presumption of innocence... well, if it's not a criminal investigation. Oh but Mueller indicted Russians on criminal charges, so it WAS a criminal investigation.

 

And yes, the discussion was about the silly concept of exoneration.

 

But let's get back to impeachment. So what you're trying to tell me is only people being criminally investigated have the presumption of innocence, but people not being investigated don't. Using your logic, what would prevent anyone from accusing you of a horrific crime and then going on about how you haven't been exonerated?

[heybruce]

46 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

I see. So Trump is NOT presumed innocent until he enters a court of law? That doesn't make logical sense. Using your logic, a person being investigated isn't presumed innocent until they reach a court of law. That is obviously nonsense.

 

As for exoneration, I freely admit the Mueller report states it didn't exonerate Trump. That's not debatable. What's debatable is the entire concept of exoneration. What part of that don't you understand?

 

But maybe you can help me. If your concept of exoneration is legitimate, show me the database of all the people who were investigated and exonerated. Obviously, there will be millions of examples of this.

The irony of Trump supporters demanding a presumption of innocence for the man who gleefully campaigned to "lock her up" chants is rich.

 

Using your logic, a person being investigated would be presumed innocent, therefore there would be no investigation.

 

What is debatable about exoneration?  The investigation did not find sufficient evidence of a criminal conspiracy between the Trump campaign and Russia to bring charges on those specific grounds.  That does not mean that such a conspiracy did not exist, only that sufficient evidence was not discovered.  That is why the report clearly states the investigation did not exonerate Trump.

 

[heybruce]

53 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

Your surrender on the issue is noted.

No surrender.  You have further confirmed you do not understand American humor.

[Crazy Alex]

Just now, heybruce said:

The irony of Trump supporters demanding a presumption of innocence for the man who gleefully campaigned to "lock her up" chants is rich.

 

Using your logic, a person being investigated would be presumed innocent, therefore there would be no investigation.

 

What is debatable about exoneration?  The investigation did not find sufficient evidence of a criminal conspiracy between the Trump campaign and Russia to bring charges on those specific grounds.  That does not mean that such a conspiracy did not exist, only that sufficient evidence was not discovered.  That is why the report clearly states the investigation did not exonerate Trump.

 

I don't want anyone locked up without due process, including Hillary Clinton, so you're irony simply doesn't apply.

 

As to your second paragraph: completely silly, as you know. If there is reasonable cause to investigate, law enforcement can and should investigate.

 

I agree with almost all of your third paragraph. But as you know, no American need be exonerated because we are presumed innocent. Now where are those exoneration records I asked about?

[atyclb]

36 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

39 minutes ago, atyclb said:

 

seems this would be a simple concept for any 1st year law student to understand. heck i've never been a law student and even i understand it

It's a simple concept to understand for anyone who paid attention in Civics. 

 

Impeachment is not a criminal process, the privileges extended to those under criminal investigation are irrelevant to impeachment. 

 

Quit your secondhand gaslighting. 

 

i was replying to concepts in

 

"I see. So Trump is NOT presumed innocent until he enters a court of law? That doesn't make logical sense. Using your logic, a person being investigated isn't presumed innocent until they reach a court of law. That is obviously nonsense.

 

As for exoneration, I freely admit the Mueller report states it didn't exonerate Trump. That's not debatable. What's debatable is the entire concept of exoneration. What part of that don't you understand?

 

But maybe you can help me. If your concept of exoneration is legitimate, show me the database of all the people who were investigated and exonerated. Obviously, there will be millions of examples of this."

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, atyclb said:

 

i was replying to concepts in

 

"I see. So Trump is NOT presumed innocent until he enters a court of law? That doesn't make logical sense. Using your logic, a person being investigated isn't presumed innocent until they reach a court of law. That is obviously nonsense.

 

As for exoneration, I freely admit the Mueller report states it didn't exonerate Trump. That's not debatable. What's debatable is the entire concept of exoneration. What part of that don't you understand?

 

But maybe you can help me. If your concept of exoneration is legitimate, show me the database of all the people who were investigated and exonerated. Obviously, there will be millions of examples of this."

There's only one person being impeached, not a criminal process. 

 

But nice try. 

[Crazy Alex]

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

There's only one person being impeached, not a criminal process. 

 

But nice try. 

And he is still presumed innocent. Even assuming there is a successful impeachment vote, Trump is presumed innocent. Impeachment is the legal equivalent of indictment. Trial is held in the Senate where guilt or innocence is determined.

 

Civics 101 indeed.

[Chomper Higgot]

20 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

I don't want anyone locked up without due process, including Hillary Clinton, so you're irony simply doesn't apply.

 

As to your second paragraph: completely silly, as you know. If there is reasonable cause to investigate, law enforcement can and should investigate.

 

I agree with almost all of your third paragraph. But as you know, no American need be exonerated because we are presumed innocent. Now where are those exoneration records I asked about?

Trump is being impeached, the 'punishment' visited on an 'impeached' individual is 'removal from office.

 

So what's all this nonsense about 'people being locked up without due process'?

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, Crazy Alex said:

And he is still presumed innocent. Even assuming there is a successful impeachment vote, Trump is presumed innocent. Impeachment is the legal equivalent of indictment. Trial is held in the Senate where guilt or innocence is determined.

 

Civics 101 indeed.

No, there is no presumption of innocence in an impeachment, but feel free to presume he is innocent. 

 

 

[sanemax]

9 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

There's only one person being impeached, not a criminal process. 

 

But nice try. 

Who is that one person who is being impeached ?

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Who is that one person who is being impeached ?

The President of the United States Donal Trump.

 

 

[edit] I accept you may wish to deny that reality. 

 

[atyclb]

50 minutes ago, heybruce said:

The irony of Trump supporters demanding a presumption of innocence for the man who gleefully campaigned to "lock her up" chants is rich.

 

Using your logic, a person being investigated would be presumed innocent, therefore there would be no investigation.

 

What is debatable about exoneration?  The investigation did not find sufficient evidence of a criminal conspiracy between the Trump campaign and Russia to bring charges on those specific grounds.  That does not mean that such a conspiracy did not exist, only that sufficient evidence was not discovered.  That is why the report clearly states the investigation did not exonerate Trump.

 

 

#a campaign slogan chant is just that. lots of juicy stuff coming out on wikileaks and other venues. i recall a movie "hillary's america" i would never be for denying hillary the presumption of innocence in the usa legal system.

 

#only a court by verdict can render a person guilty or innocent.  or in the case of oresidential impeachment the senate is the equivalent of the courtroom (i learned this on tvf)

 

 

#the mueller team did their best to find sufficient evidence but could not. their role is not to exonerate.

 

you could also say the scientific forensic research community using the the latest technology (dna, etc etc) could not prove  jesus was born out of an immaculate conception but that does not mean it did not happen.

 

 

 

i have no great love for trump but the concepts are clear to see

 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, atyclb said:

 

#a campaign slogan chant is just that. lots of juicy stuff coming out on wikileaks and other venues. i recall a movie "hillary's america" i would never be for denying hillary the presumption of innocence in the usa legal system.

 

#only a court by verdict can render a person guilty or innocent.

 

 

#the mueller team did their best to find sufficient evidence but could not. their role is not to exonerate.

 

you could also say the scientific forensic research community using the the latest technology (dna, etc etc) could not prove  jesus was born out of an immaculate conception but that does not mean it did not happen.

 

 

 

i have no great love for trump but the concepts are clear to see

 

The concepts don't seem too clear to you:

 

"#only a court by verdict can render a person guilty or innocent."

 

In the impeachment process, trial in the Senate determines guilt, nothing to do with the courts.