Trump impeachment effort passes first test in divided U.S. Congress

[webfact]

Trump impeachment effort passes first test in divided U.S. Congress

By Patricia Zengerle and Richard Cowan

 

Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) speaks during a media briefing ahead of a House vote authorizing an impeachment inquiry into U.S. President Trump on Capitol Hill in Washington, U.S., October 31, 2019. REUTERS/Joshua Roberts

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A deeply divided U.S. House of Representatives took a major step on Thursday in the effort to impeach President Donald Trump when lawmakers approved rules for the next, more public, stage in the Democratic-led inquiry into Trump's attempt to have Ukraine investigate a domestic political rival.

 

In the first formal test of support for the impeachment investigation, the Democratic-controlled House voted almost entirely along party lines - 232 to 196 - to move the probe forward in Congress.

 

The vote allows for public impeachment hearings in Congress, which are expected in the coming weeks and portends a bitter battle ahead as the United States heads into a presidential election year.

 

Democrats who accuse Trump of abusing his office and jeopardizing national security for personal political gain were almost unanimous in approving Thursday's measure, but they did not pick up a single Republican vote.

 

"It's a sad day. No one comes to Congress to impeach a president," House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said before the vote.

 

Televised public hearings featuring U.S. officials testifying in Congress about alleged wrongdoing by Trump could crowd out other issues like the economy and immigration as voters turn their minds to the November 2020 election.

 

That might damage Trump, but some of his supporters say the impeachment drive could actually boost his re-election chances by showing him at loggerheads with Washington-based political foes.

 

Republicans accused Democrats of using impeachment to overturn the results of his 2016 election victory.

 

Trump told a UK radio station the Democrats knew they were losing next year's vote and so were trying to take him down.

 

"The Democrats are desperate, they're desperate. They have nothing," Trump told LBC Radio in an interview. White House spokeswoman Stephanie Grisham denounced the process as "unfair, unconstitutional and fundamentally un-American."

 

After the U.S. House vote to move the impeachment probe forward, Republican Rep. Jim Jordan on Thursday said it was a 'sad day' for the country and House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy questioned U.S. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and said there was 'nothing compelling' to move the impeachment inquiry forward. Rough Cut (no reporter narration).

 

A number of opinion polls ahead of next year's election show several leading Democratic presidential candidates leading Trump.

 

The probe focuses on a July 25 telephone call in which the U.S. president asked his Ukrainian counterpart, Volodymr Zelenskiy, to investigate Trump's Democratic political rival Joe Biden, a former U.S. vice president, and his son Hunter, who had served as a director for Ukrainian energy company Burisma.

 

Biden is a leading candidate in the Democratic presidential nomination race to face Trump in 2020. He and his son deny any wrongdoing.

 

Trump has also denied wrongdoing. Republicans have largely stuck by him, blasting the impeachment push as a partisan exercise that has given them little input.

 

Thursday's vote showed that Democrats have enough backing in the House to later bring formal charges, known as articles of impeachment, if they feel they have enough evidence.

 

REPUBLICAN PUSHBACK

"It should not be Nancy Pelosi and a small group of people that she selects that get to determine who is going to be our president," said Kevin McCarthy, the top House Republican.

 

Just two Democrats - Collin Peterson of Minnesota and Jeff Van Drew of New Jersey - broke with their party and voted against the measure. Both represent districts where Trump won in 2016. Other Democrats from Trump-leaning districts, such as Jared Golden of Maine, voted yes.

 

Representative Justin Amash, who left the Republican Party this year and is now an independent, voted for the measure.

 

If the House eventually votes to impeach Trump, that would set up a trial in the Republican-controlled Senate. Trump would not be removed from office unless the Senate votes to convict him by a two-thirds margin, something that looks unlikely as congressional Republicans have been reluctant to move against the president.

 

The U.S. Constitution gives the House broad authority to set ground rules for an impeachment inquiry and Democrats say they are following House rules on investigations.

 

The investigation is probing whether Trump misused the power of his office and, if so, whether that amounted to "high crimes and misdemeanors" that merit impeachment and removal from office under the Constitution.

 

Democratic leaders in Congress declined to say when public hearings would start, but they are expected to begin in the next few weeks. The inquiry has so far taken place behind closed doors in front of House committee members.

 

Current and former Trump administration officials have testified that the White House went outside normal diplomatic channels to pressure Zelenskiy to investigate the Bidens.

 

The top U.S. diplomat in Ukraine, William Taylor, said Trump held back nearly $400 million in security aid in an attempt to get Zelenskiy to publicly declare that he would carry out the investigations that the U.S. president sought - a "quid pro quo" confirmed by Trump's acting chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney.

 

Lawmakers leading the inquiry on Thursday heard closed-door testimony from Tim Morrison, the top Russia specialist on Trump's National Security Council. Morrison resigned from his position on Wednesday.

 

Morrison backed up the testimony of other witnesses who said the White House attempted to pressure Ukraine, according to a congressional source. He said he learned of the effort from one of those involved, a Trump donor named Gordon Sondland who serves as the U.S. ambassador to the European Union.

 

Morrison did not criticize Trump directly, however, and said that he did not think anything illegal was discussed on the July 25 call, the congressional source said.

 

Republican U.S. Representative Mark Meadows said Morrison's testimony had been "very damaging" to the case for impeachment.

"If any witness would suggest that the impeachment resolution that was passed earlier today should come to a screeching halt, it was this witness," Meadows told reporters, without elaborating on Morrison's deposition.

 

Committee members have asked a prominent player, former national security adviser John Bolton, to appear next week. Others have testified that Bolton was alarmed by a White House effort to pressure Zelenskiy. Bolton's lawyer has said he is not willing to testify unless a subpoena is issued.

 

(Reporting by Patricia Zengerle and Richard Cowan; Additional reporting by Doina Chiacu, Daphne Psaledakis, Susan Cornwell, Jonathan Landay and Tim Ahmann; Writing by Daniel Wallis; Editing by Alistair Bell and Peter Cooney)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-11-01

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[Samui Bodoh]

16 minutes ago, webfact said:

"It's a sad day. No one comes to Congress to impeach a president," House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said before the vote.

I think the quote above sums things up nicely.

 

I am not a fan of Trump and want to see him tossed out on his ass as soon as possible for both the good of the US and the good of the planet (Hey US, please re-join the Paris Accord after he is gone!), but it is not a happy day. The simple fact is that he was elected the leader of the US and has failed; this is not a fairy tale with a happy ending.

 

That said, Trump brought all this on himself through his own actions. Period. 

 

A truly intelligent person would have surrounded himself with all the experts that they could find, implemented a rational decision-making process and studied the consequences of actions BEFORE choosing them. Trump did not do this. 

 

A truly intelligent person would have selected a team of good people to work with him to implement a positive agenda, but Trump instead chose to display disloyalty from the top and petty, malicious behaviour which sickened honourable people and precluded them from joining his administration.

 

A truly intelligent person would have worked to keep the US as a beacon of light in an ever-darkening world and laid the groundwork for even more long-term stability, freedom and growth; Trump did not do this.

 

A truly intelligent person would have understood that it was an honour and privilege to serve their country as President and not have used the office for personal gain.

 

I have said it before and will say it again;

 

Donald Trump is an ever-expanding cloud of toxic waste that defiles everything it touches.

 

Let this nightmare end.

 

 

Edited October 31, 2019 by Samui Bodoh
Lack of coffee

[PatOngo]

Lock him up!

[Tippaporn]

The top U.S. diplomat in Ukraine, William Taylor, said Trump held back nearly $400 million in security aid in an attempt to get Zelenskiy to publicly declare that he would carry out the investigations that the U.S. president sought - a "quid pro quo" confirmed by Trump's acting chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney.

 

This says it all.  The only "evidence" quoted in the article is suggestive that the quid pro quo is already confirmed.  And don't forget to throw in a comment by a Republican lawmaker claiming that "it doesn't look good."  This is balanced news?  What a joke.

[Somtamnication]

Voted along party lines. Shame shame shame, reps.

[bendejo]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

"It should not be Nancy Pelosi and a small group of people that she selects that get to determine who is going to be our president," said Kevin McCarthy, the top House Republican.

"It should be me and a small group of people" is what he was implying.  I recall GOP congressmen saying things like "Hillary should be impeached the day after she becomes president" during the 2016 campaign, talk about ridiculous!

 

1 hour ago, webfact said:

Trump has also denied wrongdoing. Republicans have largely stuck by him, blasting the impeachment push as a partisan exercise that has given them little input.

They are pushing against the proceedings taking place, but DT wants them to push back on the charges, which they are not doing, and it has him worried.

 

1 hour ago, webfact said:

Trump told a UK radio station the Democrats knew they were losing next year's vote and so were trying to take him down.

He had already claimed there was nothing wrong with foreign powers helping his campaign, meaning he was going to do the same monkey business as in 2016 because HE knows he can't win fair & square -- don't forget he lost the popular vote in 2016.  So, who is the one taking desperate measures because he knows he can't win?

 

1 hour ago, webfact said:

Republicans accused Democrats of using impeachment to overturn the results of his 2016 election victory.

The electoral victory would be more exact.  That little shadow in the corner of their minds to remind them they really didn't win with the population.  If the Dems were out to overturn it would have been initiated way back when.

 

 

Edited October 31, 2019 by bendejo

[Samui Bodoh]

38 minutes ago, Somtamnication said:

Voted along party lines. Shame shame shame, reps.

May I (respectfully) disagree?

 

This vote was both meaningful and irrelevant. It was meaningful as it, for the first time, laid out a path to impeachment and formalized a process. it was irrelevant as it was essentially a 'process' vote, and thus in my view it was okay for people to vote along party lines.

 

What I will find fascinating in the near future are the actions of the Republicans/the Republican party. There are good Republicans out there, lots and lots of them, and their vote when the time comes is going to be career-defining in the way that the vote for the Iraq war was career-defining for Dem politicians. They know that a lot of what Trump does is garbage and/or idiotic, but they also know that he has a great deal of strong support from his base. Further, they know in their hearts of hearts that he has to go, but they might be signing their political death warrants if they vote that way (will there be 'Profiles in Courage'?). Finally, they feel, not unreasonably, they the Democrats aren't good for the USA and to discard one of their own is just stupid and wrong.

 

Normally I discard the views of the 'talking heads' on TV, but there was a retired US Colonel who summed up Trump's appeal this way; he said that the Repubs had become the party of 'high finance', the Dems had become the party of 'high society' and that there proverbial 'average Joe' had been let down by both and decided to follow Trump. And, I think he got that just about right.

 

Trump is a dangerous, incompetent, unethical, greed-filled monster who has to go. But, he has to go with a dignified process that unites rather than divides.

 

I hope, but am not terribly hopeful, that American politicians get their act together and do this both swiftly and correctly.

 

Yes, I know, but...

 

 

Edited October 31, 2019 by Samui Bodoh
Lack of coffee

[Scott]

Troll posts and replies removed.  

 

[blazes]

2 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

I think the quote above sums things up nicely.

 

I am not a fan of Trump and want to see him tossed out on his ass as soon as possible for both the good of the US and the good of the planet (Hey US, please re-join the Paris Accord after he is gone!), but it is not a happy day. The simple fact is that he was elected the leader of the US and has failed; this is not a fairy tale with a happy ending.

 

That said, Trump brought all this on himself through his own actions. Period. 

 

A truly intelligent person would have surrounded himself with all the experts that they could find, implemented a rational decision-making process and studied the consequences of actions BEFORE choosing them. Trump did not do this. 

 

A truly intelligent person would have selected a team of good people to work with him to implement a positive agenda, but Trump instead chose to display disloyalty from the top and petty, malicious behaviour which sickened honourable people and precluded them from joining his administration.

 

A truly intelligent person would have worked to keep the US as a beacon of light in an ever-darkening world and laid the groundwork for even more long-term stability, freedom and growth; Trump did not do this.

 

A truly intelligent person would have understood that it was an honour and privilege to serve their country as President and not have used the office for personal gain.

 

I have said it before and will say it again;

 

Donald Trump is an ever-expanding cloud of toxic waste that defiles everything it touches.

 

Let this nightmare end.

 

 

"A truly intelligent person" would realise, after launching that rant, that he is squawking for America to restore the status quo, or 'business as usual", where the country would return to the good old days of jobs for the boys (and a few girls) in the Washington swamp.  And a return to America shoving its nose into other countries' business.

 

No intelligent  person wants to see a return to a belligerent militaristic foreign policy.  

However, this vitriolic rant in effect calls for precisely the murderous American foreign policy that many parts of the world have had to suffer under since WW2.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

The top U.S. diplomat in Ukraine, William Taylor, said Trump held back nearly $400 million in security aid in an attempt to get Zelenskiy to publicly declare that he would carry out the investigations that the U.S. president sought - a "quid pro quo" confirmed by Trump's acting chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney.

 

This says it all.  The only "evidence" quoted in the article is suggestive that the quid pro quo is already confirmed.  And don't forget to throw in a comment by a Republican lawmaker claiming that "it doesn't look good."  This is balanced news?  What a joke.

A few weeks back you were telling us this is all a cunning trap set by Trump for the Dems to walk into

 

How’s that going?

[klauskunkel]

 

Looks like she is about to extend a middle finger

[Tug]

Samoi,chomper you guys hit it on the head kudos and thanks

[Chomper Higgot]

If Trump’s supporters didn’t like the behind closed doors investigation, they’re going to just love the coming public hearings.

 

Of course, not a problem for ‘the most transparent President ever’.

 

The nation will get to see right through him.

 

Nothing to hide, nothing to fear.

[Kelsall]

Yawn.  Sorry, yet another nothing burger.  The Senate leaders have already said they will throw this "impeachment" out quickly should it arrive based on this absurd, flawed process. 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, Kelsall said:

Yawn.  Sorry, yet another nothing burger.  The Senate leaders have already said they will throw this "impeachment" out quickly should it arrive based on this absurd, flawed process. 

Mitch McConnell has already confirmed he will, as he must, put any impeachment by the House to the Senate for trial.

 

What individual Senators decide during that trial will to a very large extent depend upon public reaction to the Testimonies given to the public House Impeachment hearings.

 

You’re a little early to declare this a ‘Nothing burger’.

 

I do however note it got your attention.

 

Enjoy.

[Tug]

41 minutes ago, Kelsall said:

Yawn.  Sorry, yet another nothing burger.  The Senate leaders have already said they will throw this "impeachment" out quickly should it arrive based on this absurd, flawed process. 

Oh I don’t know about that lol keep in mind the testimony will be out in the open for all to see all will see how dirty Donald is even if not removed he will be exposed for what he is not all Americans are brainwashed to belive this serial bs artist

 

[Sir Swagman]

3 hours ago, Somtamnication said:

Voted along party lines. Shame shame shame, reps.

To be fair, the vote was always going to run pretty much along party lines (2 democrat representatives that voted ‘Nay’ both from districts that voted overwhelmingly for trump) so why stick your head up at this stage? If I was a Republican member of Congress and hated trump’s diminution of the country and actions that are unconstitutional (if not illegal), I think I would have also voted ‘Nay’ and keep my powder dry.

[Eric Loh]

3 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

The top U.S. diplomat in Ukraine, William Taylor, said Trump held back nearly $400 million in security aid in an attempt to get Zelenskiy to publicly declare that he would carry out the investigations that the U.S. president sought - a "quid pro quo" confirmed by Trump's acting chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney.

 

This says it all.  The only "evidence" quoted in the article is suggestive that the quid pro quo is already confirmed.  And don't forget to throw in a comment by a Republican lawmaker claiming that "it doesn't look good."  This is balanced news?  What a joke.

Webster define quid pro quo well.

Definition of quid pro quo

 

: something given or received for something else

 

You don't need to say the word quid pro quo. Asking the Ukraine president for a 'favour' to investigate a election opponent and holding back military aid were all that are needed to define the activity as a quid pro quo. Unfortunately none of the Trump's Republican acolytes and those at Fox never gave any direct answers but chose to divert with conspiracy theories and attack the impeachment process. What a joke. 

[xerostar]

Anti-Trumpers are so obviously indoctrinated by the MSM (fake news)  funded by George Soros and his mates (Globalists). 
The idle gossip you refer to (Infowars and Fox News) are telling the truth.  The Swamp is being drained and the criminal democrats are flopping about in the mud. 
The reason for spying on Trump, the Russian collusion hoax and the Ukraine hoax were proven to be fabrications trying to bring down Trump.  The impeachment vote is yet another desperate attempt by the Dems after their (secret) meeting.  
So desperate in fact to prevent Trump being elected in 2020, they are prepared to start a civil war with this nonsense.
They have wasted the US tax-payers money on this ridiculous witch-hunt from the day Trump was nominated for president.
A lot of these Democrats will be going to jail because Trump is slowly bringing out the truth about their crimes. 
Joe Biden and his son are just one example of Dems audacious criminal behavior, not to mention the crimes of the Clinton family.
Trump has done more good things for the US than any previous president despite the Democrats demonic opposition and non-cooperation. If you ignore the groundswell of patriots that favor President Trump then you will be the laughing stock in 2020 when Trump wins by a landslide.
 

[Scott]

Troll posts removed.  

 

[Berkshire]

15 minutes ago, xerostar said:

The idle gossip you refer to (Infowars and Fox News) are telling the truth. 
 

Infowars?  Alex Jones?  The Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theorist?  If that's where you're getting your news, then you truly do live in an alternate universe not grounded in reality.   

[Chomper Higgot]

29 minutes ago, xerostar said:

Anti-Trumpers are so obviously indoctrinated by the MSM (fake news)  funded by George Soros and his mates (Globalists). 
The idle gossip you refer to (Infowars and Fox News) are telling the truth.  The Swamp is being drained and the criminal democrats are flopping about in the mud. 
The reason for spying on Trump, the Russian collusion hoax and the Ukraine hoax were proven to be fabrications trying to bring down Trump.  The impeachment vote is yet another desperate attempt by the Dems after their (secret) meeting.  
So desperate in fact to prevent Trump being elected in 2020, they are prepared to start a civil war with this nonsense.
They have wasted the US tax-payers money on this ridiculous witch-hunt from the day Trump was nominated for president.
A lot of these Democrats will be going to jail because Trump is slowly bringing out the truth about their crimes. 
Joe Biden and his son are just one example of Dems audacious criminal behavior, not to mention the crimes of the Clinton family.
Trump has done more good things for the US than any previous president despite the Democrats demonic opposition and non-cooperation. If you ignore the groundswell of patriots that favor President Trump then you will be the laughing stock in 2020 when Trump wins by a landslide.
 

You managed to squeeze George Soros in there, well done.

 

Is Soros being impeached?

 

No, that’s Trump.

 

 

[Eric Loh]

42 minutes ago, xerostar said:

Trump has done more good things for the US than any previous president

Looking forward to you naming them. Lots of boasting about the economy creating millions of jobs which is comparable to Obama's last 22 months. GDP tanking to below 2% in 3rd Q, deficit widening, few US companies moving back due to China trade war, hailed the new trade deal with Canada and Mexico which in reality experts saw little difference with NAFTA, lots of regulatory reforms which actually weakened the government's ability to protect its own people, immigration 'zero tolerance' still no wall and created border and inhuman crisis, promised great healthcare but only concentrating to weaken Obamacare, clearing the swamp which in actuality appointing more officials from industries and firmed donors/supporters, cozy up with dictators, snubbed European allies and climate change....... the list goes on. Over to you.   

[sfokevin]

2 hours ago, Kelsall said:

Yawn.  Sorry, yet another nothing burger.  The Senate leaders have already said they will throw this "impeachment" out quickly should it arrive based on this absurd, flawed process. 

The nothing burger will be Trump as a footnote in history...

 

What’s left of the Republican Party will turn Trump into a coffee boy in the next election cycle... Fox News will move onto a new lie to keep its gullible viewers tuned it... We in our lifetime will see Trumps name removed from every building he owns in bankruptcy...

 

What will remain is a proud historical record of honorable men who put the rule of law, duty and love of country above the powers of personal greed & ignorant prejudice...

Edited November 1, 2019 by sfokevin

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, xerostar said:

Anti-Trumpers are so obviously indoctrinated by the MSM (fake news)  funded by George Soros and his mates (Globalists). 
The idle gossip you refer to (Infowars and Fox News) are telling the truth.  The Swamp is being drained and the criminal democrats are flopping about in the mud. 
The reason for spying on Trump, the Russian collusion hoax and the Ukraine hoax were proven to be fabrications trying to bring down Trump.  The impeachment vote is yet another desperate attempt by the Dems after their (secret) meeting.  
So desperate in fact to prevent Trump being elected in 2020, they are prepared to start a civil war with this nonsense.
They have wasted the US tax-payers money on this ridiculous witch-hunt from the day Trump was nominated for president.
A lot of these Democrats will be going to jail because Trump is slowly bringing out the truth about their crimes. 
Joe Biden and his son are just one example of Dems audacious criminal behavior, not to mention the crimes of the Clinton family.
Trump has done more good things for the US than any previous president despite the Democrats demonic opposition and non-cooperation. If you ignore the groundswell of patriots that favor President Trump then you will be the laughing stock in 2020 when Trump wins by a landslide.
 

And you reside on what planet?

[newatthis]

2 hours ago, Kelsall said:

Yawn.  Sorry, yet another nothing burger.  The Senate leaders have already said they will throw this "impeachment" out quickly should it arrive based on this absurd, flawed process. 

Which just goes to prove the immorality of the Republican Senators.

[thaiguzzi]

6 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Donald Trump is an ever-expanding cloud of toxic waste

What? Like a silent fart?

[Enoon]

6 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

I think the quote above sums things up nicely.

 

I am not a fan of Trump and want to see him tossed out on his ass as soon as possible for both the good of the US and the good of the planet (Hey US, please re-join the Paris Accord after he is gone!), but it is not a happy day. The simple fact is that he was elected the leader of the US and has failed; this is not a fairy tale with a happy ending.

 

That said, Trump brought all this on himself through his own actions. Period. 

 

A truly intelligent person would have surrounded himself with all the experts that they could find, implemented a rational decision-making process and studied the consequences of actions BEFORE choosing them. Trump did not do this. 

 

A truly intelligent person would have selected a team of good people to work with him to implement a positive agenda, but Trump instead chose to display disloyalty from the top and petty, malicious behaviour which sickened honourable people and precluded them from joining his administration.

 

A truly intelligent person would have worked to keep the US as a beacon of light in an ever-darkening world and laid the groundwork for even more long-term stability, freedom and growth; Trump did not do this.

 

A truly intelligent person would have understood that it was an honour and privilege to serve their country as President and not have used the office for personal gain.

 

I have said it before and will say it again;

 

Donald Trump is an ever-expanding cloud of toxic waste that defiles everything it touches.

 

Let this nightmare end.

 

 

 

Ex-President Obama was/is intelligent.

 

His predecessor wasn't/isn't

 

Neither of them were/are High Functioning Sociopaths.

 

Which is what Trump is.

 

That is what has got him where he is (his level of "intelligence" being marginally relevant).

 

It is also what must, ultimately, destroy him.

 

It is up to America whether or not it lets his sociopathy destroy America as well.

 

He's all here:

Traits Of A High Functioning Sociopath | Betterhelp

 

 

 

Edited November 1, 2019 by Enoon

[jvs]

If you think education is expensive - try ignorance!

[BobBKK]

What a farce!  ok for Biden to get the prosecutor sacked "or no aid" (on camera) but not ok for POTUS to ask about Biden's son working for a Ukraine company?  with ZERO experience?  really? 

 

Hypocrites!