O/A visa and insurance experience today

[GeorgeCross]

1 hour ago, Peter Denis said:

The point being that IO have the right to change the requirements for approval.  For sure, they do NOT have the right to turn back on a granted permission to stay.  But a granted permission is only for a defined period, and after that period it is not automatically re-approved when meeting the  conditions when originally applying, but it needs to meet the conditions which are current at the moment of the new application.

Of course that's not fair, and it means that you are never sure that you can stay indefinitely as they might impose new requirements that are very hard or even impossible to meet.  But they do have that right, and it seems they are making use of it...

 

after reading this if anyone still thinks Thailand is a good place to invest their long term future they need their heads read.

 

staying long term on a short term contract, that can be rewrote at renewal, with no input from you, is a fool's errand. the implied safety of grandfathering is just that implied, an illusion. Thailand will change the rules as and when it see's fit to suit Thailand, its people and NOT you.

 

No-one will be immune as my elderly neighbour is about to find out. he's rich but over 75 and uninsurable - he'll get a reprieve with a trip to the border and a new non-o but the sword of damocles is well and truly hanging over his head if the policy committee's plans come to fruition

 

 

[wgdanson]

1 hour ago, GeorgeCross said:

Not according to the IO at Swampy. He is going to argue it out with IO at Jomtien today. I shall keep you informed

Jomtien said exactly the same....get insurance, go out of Thailand and come back.

[wgdanson]

3 hours ago, wgdanson said:

Not according to the IO at Swampy. He is going to argue it out with IO at Jomtien today. I shall keep you informed.

No good, they said get insurance, leave and then come back?????

[Mango Bob]

18 minutes ago, Martyp said:

One of the many questions unanswered so far. I want to know the answer to this as well. You are going to the US April. Do you plan to return before July 27th?

Yes I am.  I am only staying for 2 weeks.

[TheAppletons]

1 hour ago, Martyp said:

Within a couple of days the non-immigrant O visa has become the star visa to get. No more pushing the OA visa. Those intent on keeping their money (or some of it) out of Thai banks will have a reckoning.

  I don't think you really understand why many people use the O-A visa.  (Hint: it has nothing to do with transferring funds between a couple of bank accounts.)

[GeorgeCross]

30 minutes ago, deej said:

May i ask for valid confirmation of your above comments.

Particular (As they are currently discussing)????

 

have a look back through user 'Sheryl' posts she discusses it

 

 

[GeorgeCross]

12 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Jomtien said exactly the same....get insurance, go out of Thailand and come back.

 

for the younger retiree's.. remember that shiny non-o is only 5 kms over the border.. just saying ????

 

 

[brianj1964]

15 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Jomtien said exactly the same....get insurance, go out of Thailand and come back.

When I entered yesterday and started this thread, he told me the O-A wasn't valid without insurance he told me he would allow me in for 30 days to obtain insurance, I presume he meant a 30 day tourist visa , he told me to buy insurance and go back to immigration, he never said I had to leave and come back nor did he say he would deduct 30 days from my O-A. When I went back in the line to get the passport stamped by a different IO she gave me the year, I have to presume I was lucky or she made an error 

[deej]

3 minutes ago, GeorgeCross said:

 

have a look back through user 'Sheryl' posts she discusses it

 

 

Thks???? .no need for me to look back.

Pure speculation 

Non O are not required  to have Medical insurance

at this point of  time????or (IMO) in the near future 

 

 

[paulyZareno]

2 minutes ago, brianj1964 said:

When I entered yesterday and started this thread, he told me the O-A wasn't valid without insurance he told me he would allow me in for 30 days to obtain insurance, I presume he meant a 30 day tourist visa , he told me to buy insurance and go back to immigration, he never said I had to leave and come back nor did he say he would deduct 30 days from my O-A. When I went back in the line to get the passport stamped by a different IO she gave me the year, I have to presume I was lucky or she made an error 

Sounds like O-A Russian roulette... I don't have the stomach for that.

[GeorgeCross]

13 minutes ago, deej said:

Thks???? .no need for me to look back.

Pure speculation 

Non O are not required  to have Medical insurance

at this point of  time????or (IMO) in the near future 

 

awesome, will save me some time helping you

 

 

Edited November 7, 2019 by GeorgeCross

[Peter Denis]

1 hour ago, deej said:

May i ask for valid confirmation of your above comments.

Particular (As they are currently discussing)????

 

3 hours ago, sfokevin said:

 

Edited November 7, 2019 by Peter Denis

[Mike Teavee]

1 hour ago, Peter Denis said:

When issuing a re-entry permit the IO cannot know (unless you tell him) when you plan to return.

So your Visa could still be valid on the day of requesting a re-entry permit, because you plan to come back after it expired.  And for that reason you would want to buy a re-entry permit which keeps your granted permission to stay 'alive'.

The above is not hypothetical, there must be many cases of Visa holders leaving just before the expiry date of their Visa and wanting to keep their permission to stay alive.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I got a multi re-entry permit while my existing Multi Entry Non-O (Retirement) still had 1 month validity but I put the date down I was returning to Thailand as being after the Non-O ME had expired and deliberately did not return before then.

 

For anybody who's interested in why I did this, I wanted to time my extension to not interfere with a trip to the UK & as I only normally spending 5 days (twice per month) in Thailand I had to juggle it a little so I entered, got the Multi Re-Entry permit, left 5 days later then came back the day after the original ME had expired, left 5 days later then came back a few weeks later when there was 30 days to go on my Re-Entry Permit and extended that permission to stay (IIRC I did my extension on 19th August & my Extension runs to something like 18th September 2020).

 

[Peter Denis]

4 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

As I mentioned in a previous post, I got a multi re-entry permit while my existing Multi Entry Non-O (Retirement) still had 1 month validity ...

This confirms that it is possible to buy a re-entry permit when your original O or OA Visa validity date has not expired yet. 

In my case the potential problem would occur when returning again BEFORE expiry of the OA Visa validity date.

And I would not be let in on it without having health-insurance.  

But I would be able to show the re-entry permit for my granted permission to stay.

So, it's either a) denial for having no health-insurance, or b) approval because of a granted permission to stay backed-up with a valid re-entry permit.

> As Sheryl pointed out already - a bold move, but will post my experience on returning.

[SheungWan]

4 hours ago, Martyp said:

Even if you get a re-entry permit while in the first year of an OA visa I would question whether that is any kind of guarantee to avoid the insurance requirement. Why bother with this line of strategy? Just accept that getting an OA was a mistake. Cancel or void the OA then go through the process to get a non-immigrant O.

I don't think you need a re-entry permit in the first year of an O-A visa? However, that doesn't affect your main point which is that insurance doc is required now each time one wants to enter with an O-A visa. I had already abandoned applying for the O-A when I read the small print about not applying if not travelling within 3 months. I was one of those who thought they might beat the Oct 31 deadline. Still paid for a medical cert though. Never mind. Looks like single-entry non-I O for me as well now.

[brianj1964]

4 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

This confirms that it is possible to buy a re-entry permit when your original O or OA Visa validity date has not expired yet. 

In my case the potential problem would occur when returning again BEFORE expiry of the OA Visa validity date.

And I would not be let in on it without having health-insurance.  

But I would be able to show the re-entry permit for my granted permission to stay.

So, it's either a) denial for having no health-insurance, or b) approval because of a granted permission to stay backed-up with a valid re-entry permit.

> As Sheryl pointed out already - a bold move, but will post my experience on returning.

You may just get away with plan B, but if immigration see an exposed loophole it will only be a matter of time before they close it.

they will also notice if everyone on the O-A migrate to the O to get round the insurance and add mandatory insurance for that visa too 

[LivinLOS]

4 hours ago, Mango Bob said:

Yes, deductibles are acceptable.  You can get the Standard Extra Policy with a 300,000 deductible and a 50% discount on the cost of the policy.

I believe Sheryl has confirmed deductibles cannot be used and the insurance agent who said that simply didnt know the new OA visa regulations. 

[saiber]

On 11/6/2019 at 10:07 AM, Sheryl said:

 

Very interested to hear you were able to get this form signed for a foreign policy, can I ask which company?

I got an expat insurance from Hanse Merkur, German company, which also posted the signed certificate back to me.

[SheungWan]

21 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

This confirms that it is possible to buy a re-entry permit when your original O or OA Visa validity date has not expired yet. 

In my case the potential problem would occur when returning again BEFORE expiry of the OA Visa validity date.

And I would not be let in on it without having health-insurance.  

But I would be able to show the re-entry permit for my granted permission to stay.

So, it's either a) denial for having no health-insurance, or b) approval because of a granted permission to stay backed-up with a valid re-entry permit.

> As Sheryl pointed out already - a bold move, but will post my experience on returning.

Well good luck with that, though I don't fancy your odds. Plus, do you really want the stress every time now of going through immigration with those risks? A big cloud over any trip out and back. Plan B would I guess be how you manage things after they at least give you the 30-day entry.

[LivinLOS]

4 hours ago, Assurancetourix said:

How many countries accept long stay visitors on this earth ?

 

and what is a long stay visitor ?

180 days or more ?

 

and finally, how does a traveler pay for his plane ticket?
in liquid ?
Impossible in almost all countries;
 

What are you talking about ?? Almost all countries on the planet offer some form of immigration and naturalization over time. They allow married partners to take up residency and become citizens. If my wife was in the UK for a quarter as long as I have been here she would be a passport carrying citizen, with a pension, benefits, healthcare etc. 

The fact that Thailands xenophobic nationalism means they have all but closed citizenship to males by reason of marriage or retirement is partly why this mess of annual non immigrant visa issues exist !!! 

[Assurancetourix]

3 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

What are you talking about ?

I'm talking about tourists ..Not about people who marry a local ...

For nearly all countries in the world the maximum is 6 months for a tourist ..

And a few countries accept people can stay longer on, for example,  a one year retired visa .

 

[Exploring Thailand]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Pacific Cross does do full underwriting. AETNA might, I'm not sure. I think most of the others do not. For sure the on-the-spot folks don't. Caveat emptor.

How does one tell whether a policy is medically underwritten? I guess you have some idea by the extent to which they check your medical history.  Beyond that, is there some form of words in the policy or do you simply need to ask the company?

[LivinLOS]

3 hours ago, Sheryl said:

The Memorandum for entry point officers that Maestro provided sheds some light on this; as worded it does seem to apply the effective date as the date of entry not date of visa issuance. If so there has been a major failure of communication between Imm and the MFA and its Embassies/Consulates as all of the latter seem to have understood the effective date to relate to issuance of visas. If the intent was to start requiring insurance of anyone entering after the 31st then the Embassies and Consulates needed to have started enforcing it at once, which they did not do. 

Why would embassys and consuls who issue visas, have strong information about the entry policies of IOs at the border or extensions incountry.. Its 2 different ministries and has had a long and inglorious history of being totally wrong and out of step with the on the ground reality. 

[LivinLOS]

3 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Would be a different matter for someone whose OA has expired and seeks a RE permit to maintain an existing permission of stay,

As the entry would be 12 months, going beyond the 12 months of the issue and expiry of the visa, it is possible to claim you intend to leave and return in that window of expiry of visa but validity of permission of stay (would be very different if it was a 90 day on a 1 year multi re-entry). So I assume it is possible to obtain a re-entry in that situation, if they will allow the re-entry to supersede the visa in the issue of insurance, when a visible active ME visa is there, seems a lot less sure. 

[Sheryl]

5 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Why would embassys and consuls who issue visas, have strong information about the entry policies of IOs at the border or extensions incountry.. Its 2 different ministries and has had a long and inglorious history of being totally wrong and out of step with the on the ground reality. 

 

However this new order involves both and necessitated that Embassies and Consulates be informed to require proof of insurance when issuing visas.  Which they were...but evidentally without clear explanation of when to start. (Either that or the IOs at entry points have it all wrong and their memorandum was mis-worded. Either way, a significant screw up).

[LivinLOS]

2 hours ago, UKresonant said:

After enquiring generally a few months ago, they said that they probably not sell me a Thai policy, because I was not sure that I would be in Thailand more than the 180 days a year.

I was looking to have, 

1. Out patients, self funded money in a debit card, which I would save into, and treat it as spent money.

2. Travel insurance to cover all my Trips here.

3. Thai health insurance policy (nothing fancy), which I could include my son on (Who is 50% covered at present).

4. Was searching for some sort of flat rate hospital IP benefit insurance (just an idea).

5. Try and make sure my credit cards have emergency available credit.

 

I've read other posts of people using the O-A visa as a Multi-entry visa, where Thailand  was not their only location throughout the year. My interest in the O-A was only the ME aspect (in lieu of non-O ME availability in the UK)

I was simply trying to highlight that if they are new applicants coming from overseas, especially if they do not spend all year here, how could they meet the T&Cs, to actually be insured? 1. for the application initially in home country. 2. If the were offered at the Airport. 3. They were stamped in for 30 day (30 days + time in Thailand  still not 180+).

How could they be compliant and have the insurance? (They must have changed the Thai insurance law, was the curiosity).

If the person asked to buy the insurance, does not fulfill the T&C of the policy, they may not be covered by the policy. Therefore the Thai hospital would be left with an unpaid bill. (unless the people directing people to buy it paid the bill, and would be the very folk to confirm the T&C compliance or not ???? )

This is me.. I am interested in pursuing the OX visa in a couple of years, which you must assume is controlled via insurance the same way.. But I spend about 5 months a year incountry and the rest working around the world. 

 

There is no sense in a policy that insures me where I am not, and no way I know to stop / start a policy. I had thought overseas policy which covered me globally was acceptable but its sounding like its only acceptable for the first year, and the insurance must be the incountry version each subsequent year. 

Plus I would then be arriving and stamped in 'to the end date' each time which makes a mess of the entire multi entry appeal of the visa. 

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, deej said:

Thks???? .no need for me to look back.

Pure speculation 

Non O are not required  to have Medical insurance

at this point of  time????or (IMO) in the near future 

 

 

Define 'near' 

[LivinLOS]

19 minutes ago, Assurancetourix said:

I'm talking about tourists ..Not about people who marry a local ...

For nearly all countries in the world the maximum is 6 months for a tourist ..

And a few countries accept people can stay longer on, for example,  a one year retired visa .

 

Tourists are not being asked to get insurance or generally are here on long stay visas.. 

 

Tourists should get tourist visas.. This is about long staying resident.. 

 

EDIT my wife has a 5 year uk 'tourist visa' next time we will get the 10 year version. 

Edited November 7, 2019 by LivinLOS

[Peter Denis]

14 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Well good luck with that, though I don't fancy your odds. Plus, do you really want the stress every time now of going through immigration with those risks? A big cloud over any trip out and back. Plan B would I guess be how you manage things after they at least give you the 30-day entry.

Thanks.

Sure, I do want to avoid the stress of re-entering Thailand and possibly being grilled or even denied for not meeting this health-insurance requirement on my original OA Visa. 

My planned trip is next week, so I do not have the time to switch to a Non Imm O Visa before that time.

If the re-entry permit plan works as I envision, it will give me the time (my granted permission to stay expires July 2020) to properly prepare and plan for the switch.

Of course I am presently researching the options for plan B when I would be denied entry on the re-entry permit.

For sure, I will not choose for the on the spot thai health-insurance offered but would then enter Thailand Visa exempt.

[deej]

1 hour ago, Peter Denis said:

 

Many Thks for  the links????

IMO .

Still speculation

at this point of time. For Non O  to have medical insurance and 7 months have passed since that Cabinet resoulation and only OA have been effected  

 

 

Edited November 7, 2019 by deej