O/A visa and insurance experience today

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

52 minutes ago, Jorge Owen said:

Thanks for the response.  I'm aware of the governments requirement, but up to now haven't a clear idea of even ballpark figures for monthly/annual insurance expenses.  It's a concern as my wife and I have been here for a few years now, have the car, condo, etc. and have a budget that basically allows us to break even.  This new regulation is a potential bank breaker.  Especially if, as some on TV are suggesting, choices that are acceptable by Immigration are limited to a few companies that offer not so good plans.  That said, I'm aware that premiums go up as one gets older.

 

Here's some examples from Pacific Cross... Check the appropriate age group for you and your wife... And then if you're willing to have annual deductibles, you can discount the standard premium amounts by between 25% and 50%.

 

 

 

 

 

Just as an example, if you look at the annual premium amounts for the Premier plan, the cost basically doubles for people in their early 60s compared to the premiums once you're in your early 70s... Just as a function of being +- 10 years older.

 

PS - only the low cover, high cost Platinum plans listed above do NOT include deductible options. Those are the PC policies that were designed specifically for the O-A/O-X insurance schemes as opposed to the others, which are their general public policies (though still certified for O-A purposes).

 

Edited November 14, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Sheryl]

55 minutes ago, AAArdvark said:

Is there any recent experience from someone who has reentered at DMK with a still valid (1st year) O-A.

 

I have not noticed any which makes me think not being required to show insurance as there would otherwise likely be some posts.

 

As far as we know new entries on OAs issued before the 31st are no longer being asked for it at airports, so stands to reason re-entries on  same would not be either.

 

But cannot be sure especially since most people on OAs would likely enter at Suvanabhumi

 

 

[Kadilo]

10 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Here's some examples from Pacific Cross... Check the appropriate age group for you and your wife... And then if you're willing to have annual deductibles, you can discount the standard premium amounts by between 25% and 50%.

 

 

 

 

 

Just as an example, if you look at the annual premium amounts for the Premier plan, the cost basically doubles for people in their early 60s compared to the premiums once you're in your early 70s... Just as a function of being +- 10 years older.

 

Have you (or anyone else) actually taken out a policy with them and if so how long did it take to process?

[Sheryl]

38 minutes ago, Jorge Owen said:

Thanks for the response.  I'm aware of the governments requirement, but up to now haven't a clear idea of even ballpark figures for monthly/annual insurance expenses.  It's a concern as my wife and I have been here for a few years now, have the car, condo, etc. and have a budget that basically allows us to break even.  This new regulation is a potential bank breaker.  Especially if, as some on TV are suggesting, choices that are acceptable by Immigration are limited to a few companies that offer not so good plans.  That said, I'm aware that premiums go up as one gets older.

 

Please see this pinned thread which shows actual costs for all policies that guarantee lifetime renewal or renewal to age 99. There is also a link to another thread with details on all policies (i.e. including those which do nto renew after a certain age, which is most of them -- these however should nto be considered by anyone planning to remain in Thailand permanently as would set them up for huge problems later.)

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

Have you (or anyone else) actually taken out a policy with them and if so how long did it take to process?

 

I've had a PC policy for all my years in Thailand. But I took it out long ago via an agent, so probably not good to answer your specific question.

 

Though I would add, for Pacific Cross, if they're going to write a new policy for someone 65 or older, they're going to require a physical exam with a doctor prior. And that's certainly going to add to whatever policy application time exists.

 

[Mango Bob]

8 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

Have you (or anyone else) actually taken out a policy with them and if so how long did it take to process?

I filled out their application and emailed to them.  It took them a week for the underwriters to review it.  (I am in my early 70's).  They approved it and anyone over 70 has to do a physical at a local hospital.  You pay and they may reimburse some.  That can take a day to a week to complete then you email it to them and the underwriters review it to give you a final quote.  So maybe three weeks if you are in your 70's.  Could be done faster also.

Edited November 14, 2019 by Mango Bob

[Jorge Owen]

21 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Here's some examples from Pacific Cross... Check the appropriate age group for you and your wife... And then if you're willing to have annual deductibles, you can discount the standard premium amounts by between 25% and 50%.

 

 

 

 

 

Just as an example, if you look at the annual premium amounts for the Premier plan, the cost basically doubles for people in their early 60s compared to the premiums once you're in your early 70s... Just as a function of being +- 10 years older.

 

Thanks a lot for this.  It is very helpful.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Please see this pinned thread which shows actual costs for all policies that guarantee lifetime renewal or renewal to age 99.

 

That's why I posted the Pacific Cross details above, in that they're one of only a handful of the Thai insurers on the O-A list that will write new policies for folks 66 and above and then continue those policies without canceling them due to age.  For the older folks in the O-A scheme, there's not many insurers to choose from.  And Pacific Cross, to their credit, has quite a few difference policy / cover amount options that all are acceptable under the O-A scheme.

 

 

[Sheryl]

3 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

That's why I posted the Pacific Cross details above, in that they're one of only a handful of the Thai insurers on the O-A list that will write new policies for folks 66 and above and then continue those policies without canceling them due to age.  For the older folks in the O-A scheme, there's not many insurers to choose from.  And Pacific Cross, to their credit, has quite a few difference policy / cover amount options that all are acceptable under the O-A scheme.

 

 

 

The actual chart on that thread also shows costs for each of those policies

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

14 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

The actual chart on that thread also shows costs for each of those policies

 

Sheryl, do you have/have access to the full age-by-age group premium rates for the Thaivivat and Viriyah policies, similar to those that I posted above from Pacific Cross?  If so, could you post them here and/or in your pinned O-A insurance threads?

 

And any word on whether the other two insurers allow deductibles and related premium discounts for their O-A compliant policies?  I noticed your chart even regarding Pacific Cross doesn't make any mention of their deductible options, but does mention their no claims discounts....

 

I've never seen the full actual premium rate charts from either of those other two providers for their O-A compliant policies...

 

Edited November 14, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Momofarang]

59 minutes ago, Jorge Owen said:

Thanks for the response.  I'm aware of the governments requirement, but up to now haven't a clear idea of even ballpark figures for monthly/annual insurance expenses.  It's a concern as my wife and I have been here for a few years now, have the car, condo, etc. and have a budget that basically allows us to break even.  This new regulation is a potential bank breaker.  Especially if, as some on TV are suggesting, choices that are acceptable by Immigration are limited to a few companies that offer not so good plans.  That said, I'm aware that premiums go up as one gets older.

 

Too lazy to research this lengthy thread to find out what kind of health coverage you and your wife currently have. But if you you have none, maybe you should be aware that in your "break even" situation somewhere down the road there is a lot worse to come than Thai Immigration's mandatory health insurance.

[Kadilo]

2 minutes ago, Momofarang said:

 

Too lazy to research this lengthy thread to find out what kind of health coverage you and your wife currently have. But if you you have none, maybe you should be aware that in your "break even" situation somewhere down the road there is a lot worse to come than Thai Immigration's mandatory health insurance.

Such as?

......or is this another crystal ball moment. 

[Sheryl]

4 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Sheryl, do you have/have access to the full age-by-age group premium rates for the Thaivivat and Viriyah policies, similar to those that I posted above from Pacific Cross?  If so, could you post them here and/or in your pinned O-A insurance threads?

 

And any word on whether the other two insurers allow deductibles and related premium discounts for their O-A compliant policies?  I noticed your chart even regarding Pacific Cross doesn't make any mention of their deductible options, but does mention their no claims discounts....

 

I've never seen the full actual premium rate charts from either of those other two providers for their O-A compliant policies...

 

 

1. Thaivivat is 120,000 baht from age 76 onward.  You can find their chart on their website.  Viriyah is not listed, would have to ask the company.

 

2. No deductibles.

[Mike Teavee]

53 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Here's some examples from Pacific Cross... Check the appropriate age group for you and your wife... And then if you're willing to have annual deductibles, you can discount the standard premium amounts by between 25% and 50%.

 

 

 

 

 

Just as an example, if you look at the annual premium amounts for the Premier plan, the cost basically doubles for people in their early 60s compared to the premiums once you're in your early 70s... Just as a function of being +- 10 years older.

 

PS - only the low cover, high cost Platinum plans listed above do NOT include deductible options. Those are the PC policies that were designed specifically for the O-A/O-X insurance schemes as opposed to the others, which are their general public policies (though still certified for O-A purposes).

 

Many thanks for posting this, very informative... 

 

Can I just confirm that i've got this correct... a 54 year old can get 1.2Million cover (Premier Plan) for  35,346 pa & 1/2 this by agreeing to pay the 1st 300,000 (Essentially meaning they'd have 900,000 cover for 17,673) and this would still meet the Immigration requirement?

 

Have we had a definitive answer about whether deductibles are OK as I've seen different views on whether they'd be acceptable or not...

 

 

Edited November 14, 2019 by Mike Teavee

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

1. Thaivivat is 120,000 baht from age 76 onward.  You can find their chart on their website.  Viriyah is not listed, would have to ask the company.

 

2. No deductibles.

 

Thanks.... from Thaivivat.... just in comparison and contrast to the Pacific Cross info above:

 

 

 

So only their bare minimum 400K policy is available for new issuance for folks beyond age 70?

[Sheryl]

10 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Many thanks for posting this, very informative... 

 

Can I just confirm that i've got this correct... a 54 year old can get 1.2Million cover (Premier Plan) for  35,346 pa & 1/2 this by agreeing to pay the 1st 300,000 (Essentially meaning they'd have 900,000 cover for 17,673) and this would still meet the Immigration requirement?

 

 

 

Apparently so. But note that even with maximum deductible the premium will eventually exceed 100,000 baht as you age  so factor that into your planning. Also note that annual inflationary increases are to be expected and -- very important! -- they can raise your premium on an individual basis if you have large claim. I think by as much as 25%.

 

there are other intermediate deductible options, does nto have to be 300k

 

deductible 100,000 reduces premium by 32.5%

deductible 200,000 reduces premium by 40%

 

Obviously need to consider your ability to pay (access to rapid cash) in deciding deductible amount. I would not recommend this approach for someone who has no other insurance and little or no savings.

 

Also note that while renewal is guaranteed up to age 99, policy upgrades are not. In other words if you elect a deductible now it may not be possible to remove it later, especially if you have had any claims or are over 75. So really need to do long term financial planning, not just go for what is cheapest now.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

18 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Many thanks for posting this, very informative... 

 

Can I just confirm that i've got this correct... a 54 year old can get 1.2Million cover (Premier Plan) for  35,346 pa & 1/2 this by agreeing to pay the 1st 300,000 (Essentially meaning they'd have 900,000 cover for 17,673) and this would still meet the Immigration requirement?

 

Have we had a definitive answer about whether deductibles are OK as I've seen different views on whether they'd be acceptable or not...

 

 

Believe your comments above are correct... Except that the deductible applies both against any inpatient or outpatient expenses in a year... And I believe in the case of the Premier plan (unlike the fuller coverage Maxima and Ultima lines), Pacific Cross's outpatient coverage is limited to XXXX baht per visit capped at so many visits per year. So effectively there would be no regular outpatient coverage effectively if deductibles were chosen with the Premier line policy. With the Maxima and Ultima line of policies the total cover amounts apply equally to both inpatient and outpatient expenses -- they are not capped by so much per outpatient visit and so many visits per year.

 

And yes, Pacific Cross has confirmed that deductibles are allowed under their O-A policies in the lines of Standard Extra, Premier, Maxima and Ultima -- but not the low cover, high cost Platinum line.

 

Edited November 14, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[MeePeeMai]

I have a question (I might have shot myself in the foot).

 

I'm here on my 2nd year of a Non O-A visa and I'm good until April 1st of 2020. 

 

I recently bought a round trip ticket to HCMC at the end of May 2020 to apply for a Non-O based on marriage to my Thai wife (changing to Non-O since I already have great insurance and do not want to buy a useless throwaway policy just to extend my O-A based on retirement).  I had planned to get a 60 extension (to visit my Thai wife) allowing me to stay in country until the end of May 2020 (instead of leaving at the end of March 2020).

 

Is Immigration now going to tell me that I need a Thai Insurance policy just to get a 60 day extension to visit my Thai wife??

 

Sheryl?  Ubonjoe?

[ubonjoe]

24 minutes ago, MeePeeMai said:

Is Immigration now going to tell me that I need a Thai Insurance policy just to get a 60 day extension to visit my Thai wife??

No

[MeePeeMai]

4 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

No

Thank you Ubonjoe

[JimGant]

This is insane. First, being nearly 75, with preexisting conditions, I may not even be insurable -- or if so, will pay a 6-figure premium for insurance I don't need (I have Tricare). And, if a high deductible, say 440k baht, I'll pay out-of-pocket to Thai hospitals the full amount the gov't says I need to be insured for..... So, why pay a premium for any coverage over this 440k....? Nuts!

 

Ok, Thai gov't, establish special bank accounts, where you can hold my 440k baht, to be tapped only by hospitals that I have stiffed with payment defaults (totally unlikely). Cost? Just the opportunity cost of the CD I cash in in the States, which as interest rates sink below 2%, is becoming nothing (plus, presumably the 440k would be earning some interest amount from the Thai bank). And, why not combine this concept with my 800k account needed for annual extension of stay renewals...... In any event, certainly a tons cheaper than buying a Thai insurance policy, that may become unrenewable, or prohibitively costly. Malaysia has these medical bank accounts for their foreign retirees, so it's not something new in this region.

 

I'm just afraid the insurance lobby sees a golden goose -- and knows who in gov't to visit to prevent any rain on their parade. Sadly, there' probably no one in gov't, who can understand the problem and who possesses decision making authority -- and ISN'T corrupt -- that can change matters. Sad.

 

 

[Pib]

As FYI, last week when the American Citizen Services (ACS) US Embassy Bangkok sent our their email to US citizens living in Thailand (if you are registered with them as living in Thailand) talking the new insurance requirement it contained info that implied US insurance polices should be easily accepted.   But we know that is not the case. 

 

Anyway, like Sheryl had done I sent ACS an email pointing out issues, asking for their advocacy to the Thai govt to allow US insurance polices like Tricare which provide worldwide coverage, etc....etc....etc.  

 

Below is their apply alone with two attachments.  One being a MoPH doc I hadn't seen before and the other the police order in Thai & English that I had seen/is posted on ThaiVisa.  

 

Quote

Thank you for your email.

 

The U.S. Embassy is aware there are a number of questions and concerns in response to the new Thai health insurance mandate for those applying for, and extending, long-stay “O” visas.

 

Know that we are continuing to advocate with the Royal Thai Government on this issue.  We estimate approximately 75,000 U.S. citizens have some sort of long-stay visa.  Our main point of advocacy is ensuring U.S. citizens can use their existing insurance to meets the minimum coverage requirements per the new mandate.

 

Please find attached both the original Police Order announcing the new health insurance requirement and information and guidance provided directly by Ministry of Public Health’s Department of Health Service Support.  Any inquiries regarding your specific visa situation and compliance with the new regulations should be directed to the Ministry of Public Health and/or the Immigration Bureau. 

 

Respectfully,

DP

 

Guideline Long Stay 1 year.pdf

Police Mandate re health insurance requirements.pdf

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

30 minutes ago, Pib said:

Guideline Long Stay 1 year.pdf

 

Thanks very much Pib!  That long document from the MoPH is the first time I've ever seen sight of such a thing in good ole' English... Too bad MoPH didn't see fit to distribute it to the expat community here.

 

From a quick read, there's language in there that appears to support the notion that the insurance requirement is going to required for O-A extensions of stay.

 

 

 

Meanwhile, the Thais certainly do love their "One Stop Service Centers."  First I've ever heard of such a thing existing, if it actually does, re the O-A insurance issue.

 

 

 

[Kadilo]

19 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Thanks very much Pib!  That long document from the MoPH is the first time I've ever seen sight of such a thing in good ole' English... Too bad MoPH didn't see fit to distribute it to the expat community here.

 

From a quick read, there's language in there that appears to support the notion that the insurance requirement is going to required for O-A extensions of stay.

 

 

 

Meanwhile, the Thais certainly do love their "One Stop Service Centers."  First I've ever heard of such a thing existing, if it actually does, re the O-A insurance issue.

 

 

 

So am I correct in thinking that point 4 above means that the existing O-A holder can enter Immigration but must have Insurance at the point of renewing their extension? 

[jackdd]

6 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

So am I correct in thinking that point 4 above means that the existing O-A holder can enter Immigration but must have Insurance at the point of renewing their extension? 

I'm quite certain they wanted to write this:

"re-visa" just doesn't make sense. Of course this is also not 100% correct.

Edited November 14, 2019 by jackdd

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

So am I correct in thinking that point 4 above means that the existing O-A holder can enter Immigration but must have Insurance at the point of renewing their extension? 

 

Keep in mind, it's a Ministry of Public Health doc, not an Immigration one.... But, with that said, that's certainly what it appears to be saying.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just now, jackdd said:

I'm quite certain they wanted to write this:

"re-visa" just doesn't make sense. Of course this is also not 100% correct.

 

My presumption was that their "re-visa" term meant applying for another/future O-A, i.e., next time round.

 

[khm2412]

My extension of stay expires on 16th December, so I visited the Immigration Office at Tha Yang (Phetchaburi) yesterday November 13th, to check a few facts.  To be honest, the IO I spoke to didn't fill me with confidence.

Question 1, my original visa was O-A from London.  Will I be required to have health insurance for renewal of my permission to stay?  Resounding "YES" and referred to forms displayed on the wall referring to official certificate confirming health insurance coverage. My Thai partner then intervened, stating that I already have AETNA insurance for 1 Million THB IP and 28,000 OP and would this be acceptable? (I knew it wouldn't).  The reply was that they would accept either 400,000 THB IP or 40,000 THB OP - it needn't be both!  First time I have heard this one and I suspect this is utter tosh.

Question 2, using income method (65,000 THB per month) for financials, do the bank letters have to be dated the same day as the extension application? Answer - no, one or two days before is acceptable.  The IO also indicated that some proof of income was required in the form of foreign bank statements, pension statements etc. and showed me photo copies of the same.

Question 3, what is their policy on TM28/30 filing?  Answer - not required for trips within Thailand, only required when returning to Thailand after an overseas trip.

So this is the advice from one IO on one day at Tha Yang.  I hope it will be useful for somebody.

As a footnote (also to be filed under "tosh") was the advice from an unnamed farang assisting at a company that advises on visas.  They stated that when my original O-A visa expired, I was then effectively on an O visa, the "A" in the O-A meaning "Abroad" and consequently I did not require health insurance for renewals.  They would not accept that after a visa expires you are on renewals of permission to stay, not a visa.  O visas have to be applied for separately, they do not morph out of an original O-A visa.

Just to record my recent experiences with this thorny issue.  I will post my experience of the actual renewal in due course.

 

[Sheryl]

Yes the "400 or 40" part of that is nonsense. See what AETNA can offer you by way of upping the OPD cover to 40K.

[Sheryl]

15 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

My presumption was that their "re-visa" term meant applying for another/future O-A, i.e., next time round.

 

That is mine as well. Get a new visa or extend permission of stay. Not re-enter.