Should you take supplements?

[snoop1130]

Should you take supplements?

by Monique Jhingon

 

 

Probably, yes. Unless you live in a pollution free environment with rich soil and clean spring water, eat a diverse, wholesome and nutrient dense organic, local and seasonal diet, get plenty of sunshine and movement, have a stress free life, and you are in perfect health with a strong digestion and a well balanced microbiome. While these circumstances are technically possible, in reality they are hard to achieve.

 

The mismatch between our genetic requirements and our dietary habits, lifestyle and environmental factors has, for most of us, created a nutritional gap that may be tough to fill with diet lifestyle changes alone.

 

High levels of stress, existing health conditions, toxic exposure, a lifelong diet of refined foods, caffeine or alcohol can contribute to a higher demand for certain nutrients. A compromised digestion or an imbalanced microbiome can interfere with your ability to absorb nutrients. On the supply side: food these days has less nutritional value as a result of depleted soil, food transportation and storage methods and modern farming practices. If this paints a sad picture (hang on, I will provide some answers!), it is too important to ignore. Nutritional deficiencies are not always immediately obvious. A shortage of nutrients may go under the radar for a long time even as it can have serious implications on longterm health and the risk for developing chronic illness:

 

In 2015, Bruce Ames, a brilliant US based scientist came up with the Triage theory, in which he proposes that the nutrients that we take in through our diet or otherwise are first directed towards metabolic functions that are critical to short-term survival and reproduction. What is left is then used for more longer-term health functions. This essentially means that when there is a shortage of nutrients, even if minor, your longterm health or longevity may suffer. In his interview with Rhonda Patrick, PhD, which you can find on Youtube, Bruce Ames uses vitamin K as an example to explain this: vitamin K plays an essential role in blood clotting, which is essential to stop the bleeding when you get a cut: an important survival mechanism. Another role of vitamin K involves calcium metabolism: in binding with excess calcium it prevents calcium from hardening the arterial walls thereby it can help to reduce the risk for heart disease.

 

Full Story: https://expatlifeinthailand.com/health-and-beauty/should-you-take-supplements/

 

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[nausea]

Personally, I'm against it, unless there's an obvious medical need, lack of B12 or something. The problem is all these nutrients interact in ways we don't quite understand yet. Overloading on one can do more harm than good.

[scubascuba3]

14 minutes ago, nausea said:

Personally, I'm against it, unless there's an obvious medical need, lack of B12 or something. The problem is all these nutrients interact in ways we don't quite understand yet. Overloading on one can do more harm than good.

I read a book once called the optimum nutritional bible, encouraged much higher doses of vitamins, i was taking loads of tablets a day and getting weird tendon symptoms in my hand so i stopped all of them and i was fine after

Edited November 15, 2019 by scubascuba3

[ChrisY1]

Over 70....some supplements, well one or two,  most definitely work a treat for me....makes me feel like a young guy:)))

[Oxx]

Yet individuals who take vitamins and other supplements on average die younger than those who don't.  See, for example https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/1105975

[CGW]

IF you are getting all the vitamins and supplements you need for from your diet there is absolutley no need to supplement further!

 

I doubt anyone is able to get there daily dose in Thailand due to the soil doesnt contain the minerals required in the first place, without massive doses of fertilizers not much would grow here, add to that meat and poultry is bred for profit and fed garbage and chemicals, I will continue to supplement as I have done daily for the past 45 years.

If anyone is convinced they are getting all the goodness they need purely from their diet, good luck to them, they must have a better source of food than the majority of us.

[sawadee1947]

Who sponsered you for such rubbish?

Or where you copied that nonsense from? ????????????

[justin case]

On 11/15/2019 at 6:20 PM, nausea said:

Personally, I'm against it, unless there's an obvious medical need, lack of B12 or something. The problem is all these nutrients interact in ways we don't quite understand yet. Overloading on one can do more harm than good.

 

and taking big pharma chemical medication with an arm length of side effects is ok

 

tylenol or paracetamol stops your liver from detoxing <deleted> you eat/drink/smoke/pollution

 

is OTC and is one of the most bad things for your health

 

but no problem with that one, right ?

 

 

people should learn to read the side effects of any medication they take

 

and mostly, the side effects give more new problems , but hey, you can also go back to your MD for another pill of those created "effects"

 

if they would make people in our home country and THIS one pay out of pocket, maybe, just maybe their eyes would open a little bit...

 

but if it is for free, for thais or on social security (that someone is paying) that it seems ok and no need to use your brain

 

 

[justin case]

21 hours ago, Oxx said:

Yet individuals who take vitamins and other supplements on average die younger than those who don't.  See, for example https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/1105975

you probably don't know that most medical journals get money from BIG PHARMA via advertising and most of the info is now corrupt ...  

 

one bad study about pill x,y,z  by an scientist and 10 other "positive" paid papers will come out

 

remember the 50.000 - 100.000 deaths caused by VIOXX

 

there is not 1 big pharma company that was not indited for fraud and false science and all made billions in fines, but that is part of the business plan ... pay 1,2,3 billion dollars fine while you make 10 billion profit per year

[Oxx]

6 hours ago, justin case said:

remember the 50.000 - 100.000 deaths caused by VIOXX

 

I don't, because it never happened.

 

And let's not forget that Vioxx is actually a great drug - so great that the US FDA advisory panel in 2005 voted for its return to the market, as did the Canadian panel who noted that the cardiovascular risks from it seemed to be no worse than those from ibuprofen (Advil).

 

https://money.cnn.com/2005/02/18/news/fortune500/merck/

https://www.news-medical.net/news/2005/07/11/11587.aspx

[eezergood]

On 11/16/2019 at 10:44 AM, Oxx said:

Yet individuals who take vitamins and other supplements on average die younger than those who don't.  See, for example https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/1105975

Hardly - this was a study of "older women" that used a self administered questionnaire (notoriously unreliable) to look for a correlation in post menopausal women to cancer & death. A slight risk MAY be attributed to some specific supplements - however please read the comment (conclusion) section, this clearly states the findings. What it DOES NOT state is that people who take vitamins or other supplements die younger than those who dont!

 

Your snapshot of this (hardly revelatory study) is nonsense - unless you did nor read or understand the findings. 

[justin case]

On 11/17/2019 at 3:34 PM, Oxx said:

 

I don't, because it never happened.

 

And let's not forget that Vioxx is actually a great drug - so great that the US FDA advisory panel in 2005 voted for its return to the market, as did the Canadian panel who noted that the cardiovascular risks from it seemed to be no worse than those from ibuprofen (Advil).

 

https://money.cnn.com/2005/02/18/news/fortune500/merck/

https://www.news-medical.net/news/2005/07/11/11587.aspx

 

yes sorry, apparently it is 500.000

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=500.000+deaths+caused+by+VIOXX

 

ignorance is a bliss

 

lobby people should be outlawed

 

bribes corrupt everything, just look where you live

[justin case]

On 11/19/2019 at 9:13 AM, eezergood said:

Hardly - this was a study of "older women" that used a self administered questionnaire (notoriously unreliable) to look for a correlation in post menopausal women to cancer & death. A slight risk MAY be attributed to some specific supplements - however please read the comment (conclusion) section, this clearly states the findings. What it DOES NOT state is that people who take vitamins or other supplements die younger than those who dont!

 

Your snapshot of this (hardly revelatory study) is nonsense - unless you did nor read or understand the findings. 

and in the US, doctors live less long than general public

 

next time you go see an MD, if he is fat, cola on desk

 

you should not take any health advise of those

 

specially they learned a whole wopping 4 hours in their 5-7 years study

 

health, prevention is not thought in those fancy places

 

what pill goes with what symptom is what they make money, big bucks, soft corruption

 

[Thainesss]

Id wager most people replying to this thread are geriatric drinkers who have no idea about nutrition. 

 

On 11/15/2019 at 5:45 PM, snoop1130 said:

Probably, yes. Unless you live in a pollution free environment with rich soil and clean spring water, eat a diverse, wholesome and nutrient dense organic, local and seasonal diet, get plenty of sunshine and movement, have a stress free life, and you are in perfect health with a strong digestion and a well balanced microbiome.

 

Which is probably nobody. 

[Orton Rd]

Tapper beer, cheers extra, gin and tramadol are the ones I take, you need something to take the edge off amazing Thailand ???? Seriously B12 which is very hard to find here and fish oil omega 3

[eezergood]

46 minutes ago, justin case said:

and in the US, doctors live less long than general public

 

next time you go see an MD, if he is fat, cola on desk

 

you should not take any health advise of those

 

specially they learned a whole wopping 4 hours in their 5-7 years study

 

health, prevention is not thought in those fancy places

 

what pill goes with what symptom is what they make money, big bucks, soft corruption

 

Well i have studied (and continue to do so) nutrition and I closely monitor my health & take regular bloodwork and I do SUPPLEMENT - this means in addition to a pretty decent diet. 

 

The study originally referenced does not in any meaningful way substantiate the claim of consuming supplements leads to early death. 

[CGW]

14 minutes ago, eezergood said:

The study originally referenced does not in any meaningful way substantiate the claim of consuming supplements leads to early death. 

Exactly, but most will only read the headlines, random articles often appear in the MSM of this ilk, financed no doubt by the big pharmaceutical companies, sow the seeds of doubt? the last thing they wont is a healthy population - it would destroy the business model wouldn't it!

I have been studying nutrition for well over forty years, sports nutrition has furthered the understanding of nutrition immensely.

For a lot of the posters on here, who are ~60 plus years of age I would say the two most helpful supplement they could take would be a good probiotic and a good magnesium addition to their diet, we are all different though, - stay healthy - keep away from Doctors is my recipe ???? 

[xylophone]

56 minutes ago, CGW said:

For a lot of the posters on here, who are ~60 plus years of age I would say the two most helpful supplement they could take would be a good probiotic and a good magnesium addition to their diet, we are all different though, - stay healthy - keep away from Doctors is my recipe

I agree with eezergood and what he has said in his posts, and I also agree with the comment regarding those as being 60+ years of age, because our nutritional needs change, very often as our nutritional inputs do as well.

 

Not only that, I would bet pretty good money that a lot of the older expats here in Thailand do imbibe probably more than they should do, and alcohol does deplete the system of several nutrients that we need.

 

Add to that the fact that our foods are nowhere near as "wholesome" as they used to be in the old days, and that what was once considered a balanced diet has long disappeared from view.

 

So with all of that in mind, I'm all for taking a supplement, and indeed I do on a daily basis and IMO the body takes/uses what it needs, and the rest ends up in the toilet, which I don't have a problem with.
 

[CGW]

27 minutes ago, xylophone said:

the body takes/uses what it needs, and the rest ends up in the toilet, which I don't have a problem with.

I always try to pee outside during the day, recycle the left over "vitamins" ???? helps I live fairly remote.

 

For the past ten years or so I do either a hair or blood analysis every year for vitamin deficiency, despite thinking I have all the bases covered some years results will show a deficiency in a vitamin or mineral.

WE require a total of around 90 "vitamins" a day, (60 minerals, 16 essential vitamins, 12 amino acids and 2 essential fatty acids). Sure we can manage ok if we don't get all 90, but IMO eventually it will catch up with you, cheap insurance taking good quality supplements.

[justin case]

18 hours ago, CGW said:

I always try to pee outside during the day, recycle the left over "vitamins" ???? helps I live fairly remote.

 

For the past ten years or so I do either a hair or blood analysis every year for vitamin deficiency, despite thinking I have all the bases covered some years results will show a deficiency in a vitamin or mineral.

WE require a total of around 90 "vitamins" a day, (60 minerals, 16 essential vitamins, 12 amino acids and 2 essential fatty acids). Sure we can manage ok if we don't get all 90, but IMO eventually it will catch up with you, cheap insurance taking good quality supplements.

that sounds very dr. wallach ????

 

the problem is, magnesium in thailand is sold in the oxide form as they have no clue what bio-available means ????

 

 

 

"centrum" was found in many "festival" toilets as it is not bio available ... you eat them and they almost come out the same way as a hard rock the other side

 

long time ago, I bought a multi for kids ... a fizzy tablet, on the box they did not speak about ASPARTAME !!!!  but you can look it up on websites.... toxic ingredient in a multi, but it was made by a BIG PHARMA company ....  most people don't know or don't care to read labels, but here they just hide it from the box ! CRIMINAL

 

[CGW]

3 hours ago, justin case said:

the problem is, magnesium in thailand is sold in the oxide form as they have no clue what bio-available means ????

Note I said "good quality supplements" agree there is a lot of <deleted> out there! Yet another minefield we have to negotiate!

[eezergood]

On 11/23/2019 at 11:39 AM, CGW said:

Exactly, but most will only read the headlines, random articles often appear in the MSM of this ilk, financed no doubt by the big pharmaceutical companies, sow the seeds of doubt? the last thing they wont is a healthy population - it would destroy the business model wouldn't it!

I have been studying nutrition for well over forty years, sports nutrition has furthered the understanding of nutrition immensely.

For a lot of the posters on here, who are ~60 plus years of age I would say the two most helpful supplement they could take would be a good probiotic and a good magnesium addition to their diet, we are all different though, - stay healthy - keep away from Doctors is my recipe ???? 

Would tend to agree - however the jury is still out (to some extent) on the pro-biotics and their efficacy. I would dare add a decent multivitamin and some good fish/krill/omega 3 oils also 

 

[eezergood]

On 11/24/2019 at 8:06 AM, justin case said:

that sounds very dr. wallach ????

 

the problem is, magnesium in thailand is sold in the oxide form as they have no clue what bio-available means ????

 

 

 

"centrum" was found in many "festival" toilets as it is not bio available ... you eat them and they almost come out the same way as a hard rock the other side

 

long time ago, I bought a multi for kids ... a fizzy tablet, on the box they did not speak about ASPARTAME !!!!  but you can look it up on websites.... toxic ingredient in a multi, but it was made by a BIG PHARMA company ....  most people don't know or don't care to read labels, but here they just hide it from the box ! CRIMINAL

 

Not all magnesium - you can fins otherwise, also one can simply throw some Epsom salts into a bath. 

[stephenterry]

If only nutritional needs was easily identified, we'd all be healthy, wouldn't we?  I'll cut to the chase: what food we consume is not as important as to how much is absorbed by the body. And that is the challenge - identifying what works for you and what doesn't. Any excess of water soluble vitamins, like the Vit B compounds are excreted in urine. 

 

IMO, supplements should be regarded as superfluous, apart from Vit C, Vit D3, Vit B12 if non-meat eater, and possibly zinc. Of course, the supplementary pharma industry thrives on the profits. I'm following a WFPB nutrition regime and practically all my daily nutrient needs are found in plant based foods - including calcium and Omega 3.

 

I've already made the mistake of consuming more supplements than needed and my energy levels dropped, not gained. By discarding most of them, my energy levels have returned to optimum. What works for me could be different from what works for you, so experiment.

[GarryP]

Centrum Silver

Fish Oil

Pygeum

Grape seed extract

l-citrulline

[eezergood]

3 hours ago, stephenterry said:

If only nutritional needs was easily identified, we'd all be healthy, wouldn't we?  I'll cut to the chase: what food we consume is not as important as to how much is absorbed by the body. And that is the challenge - identifying what works for you and what doesn't. Any excess of water soluble vitamins, like the Vit B compounds are excreted in urine. 

 

IMO, supplements should be regarded as superfluous, apart from Vit C, Vit D3, Vit B12 if non-meat eater, and possibly zinc. Of course, the supplementary pharma industry thrives on the profits. I'm following a WFPB nutrition regime and practically all my daily nutrient needs are found in plant based foods - including calcium and Omega 3.

 

I've already made the mistake of consuming more supplements than needed and my energy levels dropped, not gained. By discarding most of them, my energy levels have returned to optimum. What works for me could be different from what works for you, so experiment.

Bio-availability is (probably) key, I would tend (more or less) to agree. It is also very true that most multivitamins do become expensive pee, but I would prefer (for myself) to air on the side of caution and have a slight excess rather that a deficit. Also very true that all people are different in their own needs.

 

I would add to your list K2/D3 & Magnesium - for those with poor diets a good Omega complex also