renovation costs of condo?

[newnative]

26 minutes ago, Rod the Sod said:

I have a 70sm Condo and put in new Tarkett flooring, wallpaper throughout and windows (double glazed) and that cost 500k. For 100k you could afford the wallpapering!

   100k for wallpaper for 70 sqm?  Way too high, I think.  We are doing a renovation on a 79 sqm condo and we had all the rooms, including the bathroom, wallpapered last week with good quality wallpaper.  The cost, including the wallpaper and labor, was 25,000 baht.  It would have been less than that but we also had the drapes in the living room and bedroom removed and decorative border trim added to them before they were reinstalled.

[atyclb]

4 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

5 hours ago, atyclb said:

 

 

i installed 2 ikea kitchens already. they look good, functional, and not expensive.

How much was delivery to Pattaya for several large items?

 

installation in nyc and delivery there maybe 30-40 usd.  dont know about thailand but kitchen technology and installation is the same

[The Theory]

You need to make a list of major materials (the quality you want) needed for the remodeling/renovation that you have in your mind then get prices form HomePro or MegaHome or ThaiWatsuda.  Now what you need is asking about labor per Sqm. 

 

[Destiny1990]

4 hours ago, newnative said:

   100k for wallpaper for 70 sqm?  Way too high, I think.  We are doing a renovation on a 79 sqm condo and we had all the rooms, including the bathroom, wallpapered last week with good quality wallpaper.  The cost, including the wallpaper and labor, was 25,000 baht.  It would have been less than that but we also had the drapes in the living room and bedroom removed and decorative border trim added to them before they were reinstalled.

Gosh you use wallpaper and even in the bathroom?

Well at least we learn from you how not to renovate.

[newnative]

8 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

Gosh you use wallpaper and even in the bathroom?

Well at least we learn from you how not to renovate.

    Yes, I certainly do.  But, judging by your comment you're probably thinking of your grandmother's wallpaper--perhaps some hideous large floral pattern, maybe faded and peeling.  Or, perhaps a purple or red velvet pattern with a shiny silver background is coming to mind.  

    What I choose are neutrals with texture.  In Thailand, floors are usually wood or tile. If you add painted walls, that's a lot of smooth, flat surfaces.  A well-chosen, neutral wallpaper can provide some needed texture and give a nicely finished, tailored look to a space, while complementing the art work--and hiding wall imperfections.

     If I can get a rather poor photo (lousy photographer) I took to load maybe you'll see what I'm talking about.  I could have painted the walls a beige/tan color and that would have been ok but I try to go beyond just ok when I am doing a renovation.  And, why not when it is so inexpensive to have wallpaper done here.  If you're wondering why the model condos at new condo projects somehow look nicer than your condo, one reason is the walls.  End of lesson and happy painting!

     

[parafareno]

who wants wallpaper.....stuff starts to rot sooner or later....and mold gets under...

[newnative]

2 hours ago, parafareno said:

who wants wallpaper.....stuff starts to rot sooner or later....and mold gets under...

If you have mold and rot...it's not because of the wallpaper...   But, if you prefer paint, go for it...

[Happy Grumpy]

1st step.

 

Remove any wallpaper in the place. 

[Destiny1990]

6 hours ago, newnative said:

    Yes, I certainly do.  But, judging by your comment you're probably thinking of your grandmother's wallpaper--perhaps some hideous large floral pattern, maybe faded and peeling.  Or, perhaps a purple or red velvet pattern with a shiny silver background is coming to mind.  

    What I choose are neutrals with texture.  In Thailand, floors are usually wood or tile. If you add painted walls, that's a lot of smooth, flat surfaces.  A well-chosen, neutral wallpaper can provide some needed texture and give a nicely finished, tailored look to a space, while complementing the art work--and hiding wall imperfections.

     If I can get a rather poor photo (lousy photographer) I took to load maybe you'll see what I'm talking about.  I could have painted the walls a beige/tan color and that would have been ok but I try to go beyond just ok when I am doing a renovation.  And, why not when it is so inexpensive to have wallpaper done here.  If you're wondering why the model condos at new condo projects somehow look nicer than your condo, one reason is the walls.  End of lesson and happy painting!

     

Yes looks horrible!

About ur wall paper in bathrooms that is pure madness.

Also rental  wise its unpractical wallpaper will turn yellow from smoke and scratched or damaged wallpaper walls are hard to patch up !

Any wallpaper in bathroom will rotten away within 3 months. 

Sorry better focus about pavements sizes but stay away from any condo renovations!

 

[sanemax]

4 hours ago, newnative said:

If you have mold and rot...it's not because of the wallpaper...   But, if you prefer paint, go for it...

But if mold does appear on the painted walls, you can just wash it off ,

Instead of having to redecorate the whole room because of a little bit of ruined wall paper .

The wall paper in the bathroom will not last long

 

[PatOngo]

You'll probably need to double glaze your windows to cut down on excessive street noise, that can be rather expensive.

[Skallywag]

On 12/6/2019 at 3:22 PM, parafareno said:

and glass on balcony? to close the balcony down.....

Consult with the Juristic committee before enclosing balcony with glass.  Believe you need approval from co-owners under the "condominium act" to do a glass enclosure=making a "change to the external features".

Also framing for glass and type of glass has to be approved I believe.  Glass breaking away from any balcony above the first floor would obviously be harmful or fatal if someone were below.

Heat will be an issue if you are not facing North 

[jacko45k]

15 hours ago, newnative said:

including the bathroom, wallpapered last week with good quality wallpaper.

I didn't think wallpapering a bathroom was a good idea, especially here with high temperatures and background humidity? There is a concern of mold behind it too.

[newnative]

2 hours ago, jacko45k said:

I didn't think wallpapering a bathroom was a good idea, especially here with high temperatures and background humidity? There is a concern of mold behind it too.

   I don't have high temperatures in my bathroom and have good ventilation.  Two of the main causes of mold are water leaks--especially in the wall, and condensation--often caused with a cold outer wall and a warm inner wall--not a problem in Pattaya.  If you have either of these two you can get mold--whether you have painted or papered walls--but shouldn't be a problem with my bathroom. 

   Most of my bathrooms have had tile walls but several, including this current one, have painted walls except in the shower area.  I tried painting them but I didn't like the look that much.  I'm using wallpaper with this bathroom and the only minor concern I have is whether the paper might start to peel off at some point.  If it does, it can be fixed.  If I want to change it at some point that can be done very inexpensively--one of the nice things about living in Thailand.

[newnative]

5 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

Yes looks horrible!

About ur wall paper in bathrooms that is pure madness.

Also rental  wise its unpractical wallpaper will turn yellow from smoke and scratched or damaged wallpaper walls are hard to patch up !

Any wallpaper in bathroom will rotten away within 3 months. 

Sorry better focus about pavements sizes but stay away from any condo renovations!

 

    555   You must have tenants from Hell.  I don't smoke, I don't damage the walls, and the condo is not a rental so I guess I'm good to go.  If your wallpaper has 'rotten away' after 3 months you likely have some serious problems that painting over won't fix.  

[Rod the Sod]

18 hours ago, newnative said:

   100k for wallpaper for 70 sqm?  Way too high, I think.  We are doing a renovation on a 79 sqm condo and we had all the rooms, including the bathroom, wallpapered last week with good quality wallpaper.  The cost, including the wallpaper and labor, was 25,000 baht.  It would have been less than that but we also had the drapes in the living room and bedroom removed and decorative border trim added to them before they were reinstalled.

Yes I agree it was a high cost but 85% of the cost was the wallpaper itself which was imported from USA, so probably not typical. The actual labour cost was reasonable and that included plaster rework to make all the walls smooth and old wallpaper removal. They came back 4 times to deal with minor bubbles and the like and the end result was close to perfect as you can get.

[newnative]

5 hours ago, sanemax said:

But if mold does appear on the painted walls, you can just wash it off ,

Instead of having to redecorate the whole room because of a little bit of ruined wall paper .

The wall paper in the bathroom will not last long

 

    Again with the mold.  See my earlier comments on the causes.  For the record, I have never had mold in any of the condos I have owned and don't expect it with this one.  If you have mold, it's an indication of a problem that needs to be corrected--washing it off is likely just a temporary solution.

[newnative]

3 minutes ago, Rod the Sod said:

Yes I agree it was a high cost but 85% of the cost was the wallpaper itself which was imported from USA, so probably not typical. The actual labour cost was reasonable and that included plaster rework to make all the walls smooth and old wallpaper removal. They came back 4 times to deal with minor bubbles and the like and the end result was close to perfect as you can get.

     I see.  Glad you had a great outcome and a good experience with the workers. 

[atyclb]

17 hours ago, newnative said:

    Yes, I certainly do.  But, judging by your comment you're probably thinking of your grandmother's wallpaper--perhaps some hideous large floral pattern, maybe faded and peeling.  Or, perhaps a purple or red velvet pattern with a shiny silver background is coming to mind.  

    What I choose are neutrals with texture.  In Thailand, floors are usually wood or tile. If you add painted walls, that's a lot of smooth, flat surfaces.  A well-chosen, neutral wallpaper can provide some needed texture and give a nicely finished, tailored look to a space, while complementing the art work--and hiding wall imperfections.

     If I can get a rather poor photo (lousy photographer) I took to load maybe you'll see what I'm talking about.  I could have painted the walls a beige/tan color and that would have been ok but I try to go beyond just ok when I am doing a renovation.  And, why not when it is so inexpensive to have wallpaper done here.  If you're wondering why the model condos at new condo projects somehow look nicer than your condo, one reason is the walls.  End of lesson and happy painting!

     

 

agree, much of the wood wallpaper is nice. when i repainted my condo did most walls white but some opposing walls grey. have wood flooring so dont need more on walls

[fhickson]

hate closed off balconies like that...

[scubascuba3]

30 minutes ago, fhickson said:

hate closed off balconies like that...

It's thai style, makes the condos look plop from the outside

Edited December 9, 2019 by scubascuba3

[newnative]

36 minutes ago, fhickson said:

hate closed off balconies like that...

Me, too!  One of the joys of Thailand is wonderful weather that lets you enjoy an open balcony year-round.

[Destiny1990]

6 hours ago, newnative said:

    555   You must have tenants from Hell.  I don't smoke, I don't damage the walls, and the condo is not a rental so I guess I'm good to go.  If your wallpaper has 'rotten away' after 3 months you likely have some serious problems that painting over won't fix.  

After your wallpaper failure posts . To be frank i have never believed your stories about flipping single new condo units  that u claim to buy from developers by just remodeling  them a bit with ugly wallpaper ect and then 3 months later u gain miraculously at least hundreds of thousands Bhts profits even after deducting of all ur additional costs and taxes in your sale and purchase process ??

It simply doesn’t add up !

Taxes ,construction materials ,lawyer fees ,labor, your profit. Buyers can just buy an empty unit in that same building and glue some ugly wallpaper themselves and save 600,000 Bht from ur fake bargain.

In flips described by u there aren’t  any  profits to be made especially with a real estate market in Thailand that has a Strong down hill resale trend over the last 6 years ! Oh and I forgot to include all the costs involved for to transfer back in from abroad and exchanging back forward of foreign currencies in Thai bht. The only one i can see make money in your described flip is the tax office but certainly not You.

Edited December 9, 2019 by Destiny1990

[sanemax]

6 hours ago, newnative said:

    Again with the mold.  See my earlier comments on the causes.  For the record, I have never had mold in any of the condos I have owned and don't expect it with this one.  If you have mold, it's an indication of a problem that needs to be corrected--washing it off is likely just a temporary solution.

Mold is caused by condensation , the steam from the hot water in the bathroom will make the walls wet, the wall paper will not dry off like a painted wall would , which will result in your wall paper going moldy , unless you only use cold water in the bathroom 

[murraynz]

6 hours ago, fhickson said:

hate closed off balconies like that...

Not a good selling point

[newnative]

11 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

After your wallpaper failure posts . To be frank i have never believed your stories about flipping single new condo units  that u claim to buy from developers by just remodeling  them a bit with ugly wallpaper ect and then 3 months later u gain miraculously at least hundreds of thousands Bhts profits even after deducting of all ur additional costs and taxes in your sale and purchase process ??

It simply doesn’t add up !

Taxes ,construction materials ,lawyer fees ,labor, your profit. Buyers can just buy an empty unit in that same building and glue some ugly wallpaper themselves and save 600,000 Bht from ur fake bargain.

In flips described by u there aren’t  any  profits to be made especially with a real estate market in Thailand that has a Strong down hill resale trend over the last 6 years ! Oh and I forgot to include all the costs involved for to transfer back in from abroad and exchanging back forward of foreign currencies in Thai bht. The only one i can see make money in your described flip is the tax office but certainly not You.

    It's your choice to believe me or not.  I don't think making a profit is that big a deal but maybe if I go into a little more detail you'll see what exactly it is we do.  And why buyers will pay more money for our condo than the guy's next door.  We don't lose money on our condo sales because we simply don't sell unless we make a profit--why would we if we don't need the money?  No reason to lose money unless your back is against the wall and you have no other choice.  Sometimes the profit is small but we haven't ever lost money--here or in America.  But, again, not a big deal.  Sell when you can make a profit and 'a bird in the hand' tend to guide us.

     Obviously, there is much more to a successful design than just adding wallpaper--that's only one element.  There's a lot of planning and detail work involved in getting things right--especially with small spaces--that would take too long to explain so I'll just hit some of the highlights.  Usually we will re-work the lighting--which is often inadequate--and redesign or upgrade the kitchens.  Proper storage is always important and we always try to add more.  Baths are often without vanities so we always put them in with drawer storage. If you have a cluttered, messy bath counter you likely lack storage drawers.  Often the doors and trim are bad.  We do a lot of carefully-planned custom furniture that takes some work to get right;  sometimes the planning needs to be down to the centimeter in small spaces.

      I think our strength is with space planning and designing with a unified look--which makes smaller condos function much better and look more attractive.  As an example of what we do, about a year ago we started a Bangkok studio design of just 24 sqm in a new project.  There were 3 big problems with the condo.  1. The bedroom built-in armoire was poorly placed so the bed could not be centered on the wall and, with a king bed which we wanted, one side of the bed could not have a bedside table, in addition to the space being out of balance (yes, we think about things like that).  Also, you had to open the armoire doors to get to the 2 small drawers--bad design and it would drive me nuts.  Who can live with just 2 small drawers, by the way?  So, bad, poorly placed armoire--and cheap materials, to boot. 

     2. The bathroom was very small and when you opened the bathroom door it took up a lot of the bathroom space and was very awkward to maneuver around.  Not good.  3.  There was no designated, built-in space for the refrigerator.  Instead, it was just to be parked on a wall opposite the main kitchen cabinets--never a good look seeing the ugly side of a refrigerator.  A minor extra problem was the under counter space for the washing machine in the kitchen did not have a cabinet door so you would be looking at the washing machine--not good.  

    So, with this project we designed twin custom armoires for either side of the bed with an overhead bridge cabinet with down lighting connecting them--resulting in much more storage space and the bed now properly centered on the wall. Pullout shelves in each armoire function as bedside tables.  We got rid of the regular bathroom door and installed a sliding door in the same gloss material as the armoire--the bathroom works much better now. To house the refrigerator so you didn't see the ugly sides, we designed a custom refrigerator cabinet with overhead luggage storage and a matching dining table with 2 slim drawers as part of the cabinet. Took advantage of a notch in the wall to add a shelf above the table.  And, added a cabinet door to hide the clothes washer. (There are new clothes washers available now with less depth that will fit under a standard kitchen counter and allow a cabinet door to work.)

     We were originally going to keep this condo for ourselves so we splurged on a very comfortable leather 2-seat electric reclining sofa and a couple of timeless Asian cabinets to play off the new, glossy furniture. To separate the bed area a bit from the living room, we had a see-thru wall screen made.  Slim side table for the sofa, window blinds, some artwork, accessories, flowers, and done.  Oh, I forgot, wallpaper on the walls to dress up the drab, off-white, boring painted walls that all the condos in the project come with.

     The condo, bought off-plan before construction from a large builder with a good reputation for finishing projects, cost 2.4MB rounded up, including FET.  The developer paid the closing costs and sinking fund for the first early buyers--which we were.  So we start with 2.4MB.  Renovations/furnishings cost 394,000 baht rounded up--a bit high but we were designing this for ourselves.  The new armoire, sliding door, refrigerator cabinet/dining table, shelf, and washer cabinet door were all done by the same Bangkok company and cost 185,000 baht rounded up.  The rest was other furniture, appliances, tv, bed, art, etc. The most expensive single item was the armoire at 84,000 baht--but well-worth it as it was the focal point of the condo and set our condo off from everything else in the building.  We did save on the wallpaper--the condo was so small we had enough leftover wallpaper from another condo to do the job!  

     We priced it at 3.5MB and sold for 3.25MB in June to the first buyer to look at it. (In hindsight we may have priced too low but it was just a studio on a lower floor with not much of a view.)  Bird in hand...  Sometimes sales come quickly like this one and sometimes there is a wait--our last Pattaya condo sale took over a year--such is real estate.  Our share of the closing costs was 163,000 baht and we negotiated a payment of only 90,000 baht to the buyer's quasi agent.  (Buyer and budding agent were Chinese.)  So, 3,250,000 minus 394,000 minus 163,000 minus 90,000 leaves us with 2,603,000.  Minus our initial cost of 2,400,000 leaves us with a profit of 203,000 baht.  One of our least profitable ventures but we did make a little money and we only had it for about 7 months.  And, had a lot of fun with the design, with the hunt for just the right furniture and art, and with seeing the whole project come together.  I do know that one person's fun may be another person's torture.  For me, it's fun. 

     At one of the new condos we lived at a few years ago we met our next-door neighbors when they moved in.  The wife styled herself as a decorator and boasted proudly that she had completely decorated their condo with just an hour visit to Index.  I think we are able to sell, and make at least a small profit, because we do quite a bit more than that.

      

        

[newnative]

4 hours ago, sanemax said:

Mold is caused by condensation , the steam from the hot water in the bathroom will make the walls wet, the wall paper will not dry off like a painted wall would , which will result in your wall paper going moldy , unless you only use cold water in the bathroom 

Maybe. If you take hot showers in a poorly ventilated bathroom.  My bathroom has good ventilation and, unless I have company, I shower with the bath door open, as well.  Never any condensation on the bath mirror so likely none on the walls.   Thailand is hot enough so I prefer just a warm shower.   But, whatever works for you.  

[moonseeker]

On 12/7/2019 at 10:48 AM, Isaanbiker said:

I had no idea that so many tourists would make it to Pattaya.

 

  Good to see that nobody got hurt. Insurance fraud? 

 

1 hour ago, newnative said:

    It's your choice to believe me or not.  I don't think making a profit is that big a deal but maybe if I go into a little more detail you'll see what exactly it is we do.  And why buyers will pay more money for our condo than the guy's next door.  We don't lose money on our condo sales because we simply don't sell unless we make a profit--why would we if we don't need the money?  No reason to lose money unless your back is against the wall and you have no other choice.  Sometimes the profit is small but we haven't ever lost money--here or in America.  But, again, not a big deal.  Sell when you can make a profit and 'a bird in the hand' tend to guide us.

     Obviously, there is much more to a successful design than just adding wallpaper--that's only one element.  There's a lot of planning and detail work involved in getting things right--especially with small spaces--that would take too long to explain so I'll just hit some of the highlights.  Usually we will re-work the lighting--which is often inadequate--and redesign or upgrade the kitchens.  Proper storage is always important and we always try to add more.  Baths are often without vanities so we always put them in with drawer storage. If you have a cluttered, messy bath counter you likely lack storage drawers.  Often the doors and trim are bad.  We do a lot of carefully-planned custom furniture that takes some work to get right;  sometimes the planning needs to be down to the centimeter in small spaces.

      I think our strength is with space planning and designing with a unified look--which makes smaller condos function much better and look more attractive.  As an example of what we do, about a year ago we started a Bangkok studio design of just 24 sqm in a new project.  There were 3 big problems with the condo.  1. The bedroom built-in armoire was poorly placed so the bed could not be centered on the wall and, with a king bed which we wanted, one side of the bed could not have a bedside table, in addition to the space being out of balance (yes, we think about things like that).  Also, you had to open the armoire doors to get to the 2 small drawers--bad design and it would drive me nuts.  Who can live with just 2 small drawers, by the way?  So, bad, poorly placed armoire--and cheap materials, to boot. 

     2. The bathroom was very small and when you opened the bathroom door it took up a lot of the bathroom space and was very awkward to maneuver around.  Not good.  3.  There was no designated, built-in space for the refrigerator.  Instead, it was just to be parked on a wall opposite the main kitchen cabinets--never a good look seeing the ugly side of a refrigerator.  A minor extra problem was the under counter space for the washing machine in the kitchen did not have a cabinet door so you would be looking at the washing machine--not good.  

    So, with this project we designed twin custom armoires for either side of the bed with an overhead bridge cabinet with down lighting connecting them--resulting in much more storage space and the bed now properly centered on the wall. Pullout shelves in each armoire function as bedside tables.  We got rid of the regular bathroom door and installed a sliding door in the same gloss material as the armoire--the bathroom works much better now. To house the refrigerator so you didn't see the ugly sides, we designed a custom refrigerator cabinet with overhead luggage storage and a matching dining table with 2 slim drawers as part of the cabinet. Took advantage of a notch in the wall to add a shelf above the table.  And, added a cabinet door to hide the clothes washer. (There are new clothes washers available now with less depth that will fit under a standard kitchen counter and allow a cabinet door to work.)

     We were originally going to keep this condo for ourselves so we splurged on a very comfortable leather 2-seat electric reclining sofa and a couple of timeless Asian cabinets to play off the new, glossy furniture. To separate the bed area a bit from the living room, we had a see-thru wall screen made.  Slim side table for the sofa, window blinds, some artwork, accessories, flowers, and done.  Oh, I forgot, wallpaper on the walls to dress up the drab, off-white, boring painted walls that all the condos in the project come with.

     The condo, bought off-plan before construction from a large builder with a good reputation for finishing projects, cost 2.4MB rounded up, including FET.  The developer paid the closing costs and sinking fund for the first early buyers--which we were.  So we start with 2.4MB.  Renovations/furnishings cost 394,000 baht rounded up--a bit high but we were designing this for ourselves.  The new armoire, sliding door, refrigerator cabinet/dining table, shelf, and washer cabinet door were all done by the same Bangkok company and cost 185,000 baht rounded up.  The rest was other furniture, appliances, tv, bed, art, etc. The most expensive single item was the armoire at 84,000 baht--but well-worth it as it was the focal point of the condo and set our condo off from everything else in the building.  We did save on the wallpaper--the condo was so small we had enough leftover wallpaper from another condo to do the job!  

     We priced it at 3.5MB and sold for 3.25MB in June to the first buyer to look at it. (In hindsight we may have priced too low but it was just a studio on a lower floor with not much of a view.)  Bird in hand...  Sometimes sales come quickly like this one and sometimes there is a wait--our last Pattaya condo sale took over a year--such is real estate.  Our share of the closing costs was 163,000 baht and we negotiated a payment of only 90,000 baht to the buyer's quasi agent.  (Buyer and budding agent were Chinese.)  So, 3,250,000 minus 394,000 minus 163,000 minus 90,000 leaves us with 2,603,000.  Minus our initial cost of 2,400,000 leaves us with a profit of 203,000 baht.  One of our least profitable ventures but we did make a little money and we only had it for about 7 months.  And, had a lot of fun with the design, with the hunt for just the right furniture and art, and with seeing the whole project come together.  I do know that one person's fun may be another person's torture.  For me, it's fun. 

     At one of the new condos we lived at a few years ago we met our next-door neighbors when they moved in.  The wife styled herself as a decorator and boasted proudly that she had completely decorated their condo with just an hour visit to Index.  I think we are able to sell, and make at least a small profit, because we do quite a bit more than that.

      

        

I believe you. Not as easy as used to be, but flipping still possible if location, price and cost conscious upgrades are right. 

MS>

[newnative]

2 hours ago, moonseeker said:

 

I believe you. Not as easy as used to be, but flipping still possible if location, price and cost conscious upgrades are right. 

MS>

     Yes, it is more of a challenge than it was 8 or 9 years ago when View Talay was the big player in town without much competition.  You could buy a 48sqm studio shell for around 2MB, (3MB for VT7) do a renovation, sell for around 3.25MB, (4.25 VT7) and net around 600,000 or so.  Lots of Western buyers then, too--and Russians.  We did 7 of them scattered around VT3, 5C, 5D and VT7.

[Destiny1990]

4 hours ago, moonseeker said:

 

I believe you. Not as easy as used to be, but flipping still possible if location, price and cost conscious upgrades are right. 

MS>

Flip flops !