Non-OA retirement extension and insurance

[Lim Yuan Hai]

Hi,

IO of the Chaengwattana immigration have told me that she could not renew my Non-OA retirement extension because I have to buy a health insurance. This is my 3^rd non-OA extension. Is it correct or did she confuse my Non-OA retirement extension with Non-OA visa? Can anyone who has knowledge or experience with it advise?

If she is correct, kindly advise which insurance company is cheapest (approximately how much) and how can I purchase (Can I purchase online?)?

Is there any immigration office in other province do not require for health insurance for non- OA extension? I have been living in Sukhumvit area, Can I go to that province for non-OA extension if there is any?

Thank you and have a nice day.

Edited December 20, 2019 by Lim Yuan Hai

[ubonjoe]

There are several ongoing topics about a original OA visa entry requirement insurance when you apply for an extension of stay.

On is here where it has been discussed. https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1138196-o_a-extensions-75-based-on-retirement-only/

There are some office far from Bangkok that may be not require it but you would not be apply there without formally changing your address to where it is located.

Info about the companies offering the insurance is here. https://longstay.tgia.org/home/companiesoa

Many people are opting to do away with their original OA visa entry by going out of the country to get a non-o visa entry and then applying for a new extension due to the insurance not be required for them.

When does your current extension end?

 

[Lim Yuan Hai]

4 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

There are several ongoing topics about a original OA visa entry requirement insurance when you apply for an extension of stay.

On is here where it has been discussed. https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1138196-o_a-extensions-75-based-on-retirement-only/

There are some office far from Bangkok that may be not require it but you would not be apply there without formally changing your address to where it is located.

Info about the companies offering the insurance is here. https://longstay.tgia.org/home/companiesoa

Many people are opting to do away with their original OA visa entry by going out of the country to get a non-o visa entry and then applying for a new extension due to the insurance not be required for them.

When does your current extension end?

 

One person offered to bring me to another province to get the extension done without needing health insurance. Is it legal and are there other possible troubles in future including 90 days reporting (should I report 90 days to the province where I get extension or to the Chaengwattana immigration?) because I have been living in Sukhumvit? 

My extension will end on 18 Jan 2020.
I have decided not to convert to the non-O and this is my final extension (I will left the Bangkok around end of August 2020, hence, only need around 7 months extension). Only another possible way is to buy cheapest health insurance at the  fastest possible way.

Can you please advise?
 
Thank you and have a nice weekend, Joe.

[ardsong]

concerning to buy the "cheapest health insurance", please read the minimal requirements for the health insurance to be acceptable for immigration.

[moontang]

you can go to the Pacific Cross office by Surasak bts, and take care of it...it will still take a week until you can pick up all the required stuff...my agent met me down at the pier.

[tgeezer]

The insurance industry probably think that they have died and gone to heaven, government mandated compulsory insurance to protect third parties is Dripping Beef to them so why should they give deals? 

[4MyEgo]

36 minutes ago, tgeezer said:

The insurance industry probably think that they have died and gone to heaven, government mandated compulsory insurance to protect third parties is Dripping Beef to them so why should they give deals? 

Might be dripping beef to them, but how many have changed to Non O visas, the current loophole for those on the O/A visa.

 

If the government is stupid enough to introduce mandatory health insurance to the retirement and marriage visas/extensions, Thailand will lose it's last farangs, the tourists aren't coming, and a lot of expats left when the TM 30 enforcement came into play.

 

Personally I think they are starting to understand that farangs are not like Thai's, i.e. they have choices, and if they don't like what they throw at them, farangs exit, as I will if they ever make it mandatory health insurance, money is welcome in a lot of countries, with less hassles, especially back in my homeland, albeit more expensive than Thailand.

 

In a nutshell, there is a clear difference between farangs and Thai's and I think the loss of face/money is starting to show in them backing off on the TM 30 by a lot of offices not enforcing it, but time will tell, as all it takes is a nutta to do something stupid and it costs the nation billions in revenue and the Thai business owners grief and hardship.

Edited December 21, 2019 by 4MyEgo

[Lim Yuan Hai]

1 hour ago, moontang said:

you can go to the Pacific Cross office by Surasak bts, and take care of it...it will still take a week until you can pick up all the required stuff...my agent met me down at the pier.

Hi, Can you share: 
what is a benefit of using the agent?
how much have to pay for the agent? 

Did they ask for medical exam?

I have to use the crutches because of my sciatic nerve injury of the left leg when I was 1 year old. I am 57 years. I am worry that they might increase the premium when they saw walking with 2 crutches. Can you please advise?
 
Thank you.

[Onrai]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

If the government is stupid enough to introduce mandatory health insurance to the retirement and marriage visas/extensions, Thailand will lose it's last farangs, the tourists aren't coming, and a lot of expats left when the TM 30 enforcement came into play

Since you have 5,805 posts I am assuming you have been in Thailand for some time. Since it has been in the news and posted on Thai visa forum it should come as no shock to hear that dead beat farang have cost the Thai medical system billions in losses from unpaid bills. Blame them. Blame all the foreigners who come over here, don’t have insurance, go to the hospital and skip out on the bill. What would you expect your country to do if you had a bunch of free loaders taking advantage of the system. Health care is reasonably priced here. The least we can do is pay our bills and not ruin for everyone else.

[Peterw42]

4 minutes ago, Onrai said:

Since you have 5,805 posts I am assuming you have been in Thailand for some time. Since it has been in the news and posted on Thai visa forum it should come as no shock to hear that dead beat farang have cost the Thai medical system billions in losses from unpaid bills. Blame them. Blame all the foreigners who come over here, don’t have insurance, go to the hospital and skip out on the bill. What would you expect your country to do if you had a bunch of free loaders taking advantage of the system. Health care is reasonably priced here. The least we can do is pay our bills and not ruin for everyone else.

I think you would find its not unpaid bills that is the major problem. Its the fact that we dont pay taxes and fund the subsidised medical system. Yes, government health care is reasonably priced, because its subsidised. We can pay in full for healthcare and its only ever a percentage of the cost, Thai tax payers are paying the rest.

If you have ever been to hospital for a major procedure or accident care in thailand, its very hard to skip without paying.

 

Although its presented as foreigners are not paying their bills, its more a case of foreigners dont fund the system that pays most of the bill.

 

Insurance will, by default, move foreigners into the private system and out of the subsidised system.

[TigerandDog]

1 hour ago, Lim Yuan Hai said:

Hi, Can you share: 
what is a benefit of using the agent?
how much have to pay for the agent? 

Did they ask for medical exam?

I have to use the crutches because of my sciatic nerve injury of the left leg when I was 1 year old. I am 57 years. I am worry that they might increase the premium when they saw walking with 2 crutches. Can you please advise?
 
Thank you.

As you have not turned 65 yet you will not need a full medical with Pacific Cross. However you will have to declare your sciatic nerve injury and any other pre-existing conditions. PC have a plan that exceeds the minimum requirements ( Standard Plus ), BUT they have not registered it. Even though, their Standard Plus Extra plan is affordable for some and not others. Also PC's premiums are cheaper than all the other approved health insurance companies.  I even noticed one of them has registered a plan that has 400k IP cover BUT only 30k OP cover. Heaven knows how that got past TGIA.

[natway09]

I still cannot understand why the grizzles about some decent sort of health care.

Having lived here for 30 years & seen some terrible accidents along with 1 guy committing suicide rather than spend their small nest egg on treatment (being left for his son) 

Why would you possibly NOT insure yourself ?

[joebrown]

24 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

I think you would find its not unpaid bills that is the major problem. Its the fact that we dont pay taxes and fund the subsidised medical system. Yes, government health care is reasonably priced, because its subsidised. We can pay in full for healthcare and its only ever a percentage of the cost, Thai tax payers are paying the rest.

If you have ever been to hospital for a major procedure or accident care in thailand, its very hard to skip without paying.

 

Although its presented as foreigners are not paying their bills, its more a case of foreigners dont fund the system that pays most of the bill.

 

Insurance will, by default, move foreigners into the private system and out of the subsidised system.

You  say "it's a fact that we don't pay taxes". A totally misinformed, incorrect statement. Haven't you ever heard of VAT? It's charged on virtually everything we buy, even Chang beer! We expats are required to show incomes of 65K/ 40k bht per month, a lot more than the average Thai income. So per capita we expats contribute more to tax revenue than the average Thai.

Did you know that only about 30% of the Thai working population are registered to pay income tax, so you can see that the Thai health service cannot be financed by such a small % of people paying Income Tax.

The Thai Government will always be looking somewhere other than at themselves for the massive under-funding of the health service , and guess what, we are the softest targets to blame. 

[rhodie]

14 minutes ago, natway09 said:

I still cannot understand why the grizzles about some decent sort of health care.

Having lived here for 30 years & seen some terrible accidents along with 1 guy committing suicide rather than spend their small nest egg on treatment (being left for his son) 

Why would you possibly NOT insure yourself ?

We are insured and more than adequately, but bought the policy in our home country and not the overpriced worthless policies they are forcing  on us. 

And as stated above it is virtually impossible to skip without paying your bill. They will stop you from leaving until the bill is paid unless you die, in which case they do not release your remains until the bill is paid.

[Peter Denis]

52 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

As you have not turned 65 yet you will not need a full medical with Pacific Cross. However you will have to declare your sciatic nerve injury and any other pre-existing conditions. PC have a plan that exceeds the minimum requirements ( Standard Plus ), BUT they have not registered it. Even though, their Standard Plus Extra plan is affordable for some and not others. Also PC's premiums are cheaper than all the other approved health insurance companies.  I even noticed one of them has registered a plan that has 400k IP cover BUT only 30k OP cover. Heaven knows how that got past TGIA.

The OP is looking for the cheapest possible thai-approved health-insurance policy that will be accepted by IO when applying for extension of his original OA - retirement Visa.

I think that would be PacificCross, as they allow deductibles of up to 300K, which approx halves the price of the annual premium.

As OP only intends to stay in Thailand for 7 months after his extension is due, it would be interesting if PC or another thai-approved insurance company would issue policies shorter than 1 year.  Normally - but what is normal in Thailand - It should be no problem to have such a 7 month health-insurance policy approved by IO as the PoliceOrder clearly states that the permission to stay will be 1 year or the validity of the policy, whichever is shorter.

Edited December 21, 2019 by Peter Denis

[Don Aleman]

No one will sell a policy to people 80 +

[Peter Denis]

10 minutes ago, Don Aleman said:

No one will sell a policy to people 80 +

The OP is 57 years of age.

[moontang]

2 hours ago, Lim Yuan Hai said:

Hi, Can you share: 
what is a benefit of using the agent?
how much have to pay for the agent? 

Did they ask for medical exam?

I have to use the crutches because of my sciatic nerve injury of the left leg when I was 1 year old. I am 57 years. I am worry that they might increase the premium when they saw walking with 2 crutches. Can you please advise?
 
Thank you.

No medical exam under 65...extensive questionnaire.  They will just exclude pre-existing [email protected]

 

He works for the company..I do not believe there would be a way to bypass agents..even when I buy from IMG or tokiomarine, they assign me an agent when buying direct, so I just use www.insubuy.com...but their A rated policies for 15-30 million THB are not acceptable here.  PC are...

Edited December 21, 2019 by moontang

[4MyEgo]

2 hours ago, Onrai said:

Since you have 5,805 posts I am assuming you have been in Thailand for some time. Since it has been in the news and posted on Thai visa forum it should come as no shock to hear that dead beat farang have cost the Thai medical system billions in losses from unpaid bills. Blame them. Blame all the foreigners who come over here, don’t have insurance, go to the hospital and skip out on the bill. What would you expect your country to do if you had a bunch of free loaders taking advantage of the system. Health care is reasonably priced here. The least we can do is pay our bills and not ruin for everyone else.

I have been coming to Thailand since 2005 and moved here in 2015.

 

My family has cover 55,000 baht per year, I am about to cancel that come 31 December as it has increased 15% for no reason apart from a rise in south-east Asia claims have forced us to raise premiums by 5%-10%. I also have cover 60,000 baht and about to go up and also perhaps cancel in June as I have enough to self cover in the event of an emergency.

 

I understand what your saying, but this is not just Thailand, it's all over the world, just in the state of New South Wales, Australia this year it cost the government $1 billion seven hundred and twenty two million baht or $84,000,000

 

While most of us do the right thing, insurance premiums are becoming unaffordable as they increase, I can understand the 5 year age bracket, but my families went up for no reason apart from what I stated above, that said, every currency has dropped around 20% of late which adds to the weight of the policy.

 

Perhaps governments should tender out to insurers to make some kind of reasonable effort to cover expats via a per head cover for x amount of baht per year, not the charges they charge for emergency cover only which is limited, i.e. surgery and a room or shared room, might as well pack up and go back home, at least we get free cover there (Medicare) and can pocket 115,000 baht plus as the polices increase annually or by age bracket.

[4MyEgo]

28 minutes ago, Tuvoc said:

Not stupid

Stupid

 

28 minutes ago, Tuvoc said:

I think that is probably their plan. They want the millions of short term tourists who generally spend a lot of money in a short time and then go home.

Tourists don't spend a lot in the short term, everybodies currencies are down.

 

As an expat, I spent around a million baht in the last year, excluding what I spent on me and the family on private health insurance, if that's not enough for them, well go get the big spending tourists who have opted for Vietnam, Cambodia and the likes where they get more bang for their bucks.

 

I for one have pulled in the raines now and will wait and see what comes of their insurance committee, and will be cancelling my insurances as well.

 

Over it, so many changes....

[Lim Yuan Hai]

1 hour ago, Peter Denis said:

The OP is looking for the cheapest possible thai-approved health-insurance policy that will be accepted by IO when applying for extension of his original OA - retirement Visa.

I think that would be PacificCross, as they allow deductibles of up to 300K, which approx halves the price of the annual premium.

Hi, what do you mean by "they allow deductibles of up to 300K"? Can you kindly elaborate?

Thank you

[Sheryl]

3 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

.....Imsurance will, by default, move foreigners into the private system and out of the subsidised system.

Not this insurance.

 

400k cover will barely get you in the door of a private hospital here...

 

[moontang]

3 minutes ago, Lim Yuan Hai said:

Hi, what do you mean by "they allow deductibles of up to 300K"? Can you kindly elaborate?

Thank you

You get a 50% discount, but would have to pay the first 300k before coverage kicks in..I took a 15% discount and a 20k deductible.

[wwest5829]

3 hours ago, Onrai said:

Since you have 5,805 posts I am assuming you have been in Thailand for some time. Since it has been in the news and posted on Thai visa forum it should come as no shock to hear that dead beat farang have cost the Thai medical system billions in losses from unpaid bills. Blame them. Blame all the foreigners who come over here, don’t have insurance, go to the hospital and skip out on the bill. What would you expect your country to do if you had a bunch of free loaders taking advantage of the system. Health care is reasonably priced here. The least we can do is pay our bills and not ruin for everyone else.

Hmmm, assumption much? My heart attack in Chiang Mai in 2015 cost a total of 411,000 baht. 5,000 USD paid by my US insurance with remainder from personal funds. No problem. Now I am required to buy insurance at a high premium which would not pay for anything concerning heart or circulation (pre-existing condition)? Don't think so ...

[Sheryl]

36 minutes ago, Lim Yuan Hai said:

Hi, what do you mean by "they allow deductibles of up to 300K"? Can you kindly elaborate?

Thank you

You have the option of agreeing to pay the first 300,000 baht yourself in exchange for a 50% reduction in premium.

 

You should do this only if you can actually come up with 300k any time needed.

 

There are also smaller deductible options starting I think around 40-50 baht. These also reduce premium but by a lesser percentage.

 

Choose the maximum deductible you can afford and keep that amount set aside in the bank at all times (separate from the finds used to qualify for your visa if using the 800k lump sum method).

 

At your age no physical exam required and can do it all online/by mail. You will have to declare your disability and that may lead to the policy containing an exemption for anything related to it but should not preclude getting insured per se.

 

Pacific Cross is taking several weeks these days to issue policies as they have a lot of applicants so keep that in mind.

 

It is preferrable to get the policy through a broker, they can help speed up processing if necessary and also help with any issues related to claims afterwards. And explain to you all the various options among different policies.  It does not cost any more than buying directly.

 

AA Brokers are good.  www.aainsure.net

 

My broker there is Jenny and she is a great help

 

[email protected]

[Onrai]

3 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

I think you would find its not unpaid bills that is the major problem. Its the fact that we dont pay taxes and fund the subsidised medical system. Yes, government health care is reasonably priced, because its subsidised. We can pay in full for healthcare and its only ever a percentage of the cost, Thai tax payers are paying the rest.

If you have ever been to hospital for a major procedure or accident care in thailand, its very hard to skip without paying.

 

Although its presented as foreigners are not paying their bills, its more a case of foreigners dont fund the system that pays most of the bill.

 

Insurance will, by default, move foreigners into the private system and out of the subsidised system

Point well taken. 

[DUNROAMIN]

3 hours ago, Onrai said:

Since you have 5,805 posts I am assuming you have been in Thailand for some time. Since it has been in the news and posted on Thai visa forum it should come as no shock to hear that dead beat farang have cost the Thai medical system billions in losses from unpaid bills. Blame them. Blame all the foreigners who come over here, don’t have insurance, go to the hospital and skip out on the bill. What would you expect your country to do if you had a bunch of free loaders taking advantage of the system. Health care is reasonably priced here. The least we can do is pay our bills and not ruin for everyone else.

I don't believe the BS that is being spun by the government, as to "farangs" not paying their bills. Can you provide me with written proof that all Expats living here racked up these unpaid bills of billions of barht. I believe the main offenders are tourist arriving here with no medical insurance. Yes, there maybe some expat "farangs" that have slipped out without paying their bill, but not to the extent of what the government says. From my experience here, if you end up in hospital and need surgery(not life threatening) the hospitals requires the funds up front before they go ahead. My personal belief is that the government and hospitals have cooked up this scam to line the pockets of the Thai elite who own and run most of the Thai private hospitals and health insurance companies. Many expats have private health insurance with global HI companies, which are not excepted with this new rule. Myself and many of my friends pay their own way for hospital treatment and I suspect many do the same.  Keep in mind this country has always relied on money from external resources and has always struggled to generate its own income due to a lack of proper governing surrounded by corruption. 

[Mac98]

3 hours ago, natway09 said:

I still cannot understand why the grizzles about some decent sort of health care.

Having lived here for 30 years & seen some terrible accidents along with 1 guy committing suicide rather than spend their small nest egg on treatment (being left for his son) 

Why would you possibly NOT insure yourself ?

Because the pre-existing conditions loophole means you will not be covered for what is most likely to put you in hospital. You will have paid thousands of dollars for absolutely nothing. And if a retiree makes it to 75 he can't get insurance anyway. Offer a decent policy and i will buy it. They should have an inexpensive "catastrophic" policy that covers costs for anything and everything, but only for the part of those costs exceeding 200,000b. The hospital should collect your passport and not return it until your part of the bill has been paid.    

[sidelines]

14 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

There are several ongoing topics about a original OA visa entry requirement insurance when you apply for an extension of stay.

On is here where it has been discussed. https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1138196-o_a-extensions-75-based-on-retirement-only/

There are some office far from Bangkok that may be not require it but you would not be apply there without formally changing your address to where it is located.

Info about the companies offering the insurance is here. https://longstay.tgia.org/home/companiesoa

Many people are opting to do away with their original OA visa entry by going out of the country to get a non-o visa entry and then applying for a new extension due to the insurance not be required for them.

When does your current extension end?

 

Could you detail which office/s far from Bangkok that may not require (insurance). I have been following the various topics on this subject but have not seen mention of anyone successfully receiving an extension of stay, from an O-A base, without insurance. 

[Lim Yuan Hai]

3 hours ago, moontang said:

You get a 50% discount, but would have to pay the first 300k before coverage kicks in..I took a 15% discount and a 20k deductible.

50% discount for 300,000 deductible.
15% discount for 20K deductible, hence, proportionally 50% discount should be 66,666 deductible. Is it correct?