43 killed on first of '7 dangerous days'

[dinsdale]

So! How many will succumb to their injuries outside of the 24hr period and not be included in Thailand's very dodgy road deaths statistics. They just can't help but lie to make themselves look better. 

15 hours ago, rooster59 said:

A great number of accidents (30.39 per cent) occurred between 4pm and 8pm, while the most common place where the accidents happened was highways (39.22 per cent) followed by district and local roads (30.6 per cent).

69.82% of accidents happened on highways, district and local roads. This sort of fills my road list. Guess the rest were in carparks.

[Huckenfell]

8 hours ago, Asquith Production said:

You are right people do come on here and condemn/mock Thai drivers but plenty as been said on this forum about what the Government could do to improve the carnage. It would need a massive amount of money and will from the Government and the biggest problem are the Thai drivers and riders who are not bothered on improving driving standards anyway.

I blame the RTP who either do not know or do not care ! Have you ever been held up by a policeman outside a school of an afternoon  whilst kids , sometimes 4 on a m/c are waved through by the copper .

[garyk]

Kinda curious on how many of you guys have actually got caught up in this mess?

I got caught in it about 5 years ago and it was the scariest driving experience of my life. Before I pulled into a hotel and hid for the remainder of the time. 

[Boedog]

And the ones that were stopped for no licence were allowed to drive off after handing over the obligatory lunch money, 

[GinBoy2]

8 hours ago, garyk said:

Kinda curious on how many of you guys have actually got caught up in this mess?

I got caught in it about 5 years ago and it was the scariest driving experience of my life. Before I pulled into a hotel and hid for the remainder of the time. 

I did it once about 6 or 7 years ago, Never Again.

 

I was going back to the US for Christmas, but coming back right before New Year.

 

In one of those 'I hate it when my wife is right, Told You so' moments, I drove myself to BKK, saying "it'll be fine" on the way back.

 

I sailed out of the airport, 'see it'll be fine'........WRONG

 

From the first toll booth on 9, I literally crawled all the way to Khon Kaen. Took me 15 hours as I recall.

 

I learnt my lesson after that, and always flew down and back at Christmas/New Year!

Edited December 29, 2019 by GinBoy2

[Prairieboy]

16 hours ago, superal said:

How often have you seen 10 year old kids riding a motor cycle to school without a helmet ?

Too often - daily in my village and not only to and from school but every day of the week.  Parents and/or guardians allow the kids to do whatever they want and accept no responsibility.  

[Airbagwill]

10 hours ago, superal said:

Have read your post 3 times and makes zero sense , complete gobbledegook 

QED _ The lack of comprehension of many is at the root of lack of progress on road safety in Thailand.

[Airbagwill]

9 hours ago, garyk said:

Kinda curious on how many of you guys have actually got caught up in this mess?

I got caught in it about 5 years ago and it was the scariest driving experience of my life. Before I pulled into a hotel and hid for the remainder of the time. 

As my holidays have always coincided with THAI holidays, I have driven extensively on both New Year and Sing Khran for the past 20 years.

I don't share your confusion or fear when driving in Thailand.

I also drive extensively for both work and leisure outside the holiday periods.

I think most of the criticism here arises out of people who have little self-awareness especially relating to their own driving abilities.

Edited December 30, 2019 by Airbagwill

[Airbagwill]

1 hour ago, Prairieboy said:

Too often - daily in my village and not only to and from school but every day of the week.  Parents and/or guardians allow the kids to do whatever they want and accept no responsibility.  

...are you suggesting if this was stopped the road deaths on Thailand would change significantly?

[mikebell]

On 12/29/2019 at 5:25 AM, rooster59 said:

Anutin added that on the first day more than 63,000 highway officials and police were working at 2,026 checkpoints countrywide.

Total tosh.  Went past the block near Big C on Suk Pattaya. NINE police sat earnestly studying their phones working at 'earning' their overtime.  The lights were on red so I was there a couple of minutes - not ONE officer even glanced towards the road!

[madmitch]

17 hours ago, pennine said:

Yes, that means 70% were below 50.

pennine

Try reading the whole sentence.

[brianthainess]

On 12/29/2019 at 8:24 AM, madmitch said:

“Most of the deaths and injuries were to people in the age range of 50 years and over, or 29.27 per cent,” said the minister. “

Thai math's at work again.

[brianthainess]

17 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

I always found that odd too.

 

Same in the US, when your car gets impounded the fee to get it out can be a helluva lot more than the ticket, and I'm sure the same is true in almost all Western countries

I remember in my teens in the UK the fine for a bald tyre was the price of a new tyre, a lesson learnt.

[brianthainess]

11 hours ago, Huckenfell said:

I blame the RTP who either do not know or do not care ! Have you ever been held up by a policeman outside a school of an afternoon  whilst kids , sometimes 4 on a m/c are waved through by the copper .

Yep 

[brianthainess]

So WE all know that roadside checkpoints don't work and in the real world patrols do, but they continue with same, all the time getting the same bad results, insanity proved once again. I note the Transport minister is quiet so far. 

[ChipButty]

Road death toll jumps to 109 in first two days of safe driving campaign

Authorities have been instructed to tighten up traffic controls in high risk areas as the death toll for the first two days of the seven-day dangerous travel period over the New Year holidays increased from 43 to 109 and the number of injured rose by 527 to 993.

Road accidents during that 48 hours were recorded at 974, with the southern province of Surat Thani topping the list with 33 incidents and 37 people injured. Chiang Rai and Nakhon Sawan had the highest death toll at 6 each.

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/road-de...ving-campaign/

[Airbagwill]

2 hours ago, brianthainess said:

So WE all know that roadside checkpoints don't work and in the real world patrols do, but they continue with same, all the time getting the same bad results, insanity proved once again. I note the Transport minister is quiet so far. 

As said the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

 

It doesn't seem to occur to either the authorities or most posters on this thread that reeling out the same old cliches and anecdotes makes not the slightest difference.

 

Countries elsewhere have realise this and their road safety figures have improved dramatically.

 

it's not just road safety though 

Thailand ignores world advice on many other things too

 

education, urban development, customer service, healthcare, social welfare etc etc, it all costs big-time in the long run.

[elgenon]

I'm always curious as to the "normal" numbers. They are never stated.

[superal]

4 hours ago, brianthainess said:

So WE all know that roadside checkpoints don't work and in the real world patrols do, but they continue with same, all the time getting the same bad results, insanity proved once again. I note the Transport minister is quiet so far. 

Sooooo true & apathy rules for sure .   There are many ways to mitigate the carnage on Thailand's roads but for some reason they are not used .

[Tofer]

1 hour ago, superal said:

Sooooo true & apathy rules for sure .   There are many ways to mitigate the carnage on Thailand's roads but for some reason they are not used .

The reason is very simple, and it's not apathy but face. Thais are too proud (read arrogant) to accept that anybody knows better than them. They will never follow others example or advice, as it would be seen as an admission that their way is not the best way.

 

Combined with the inbred culture of corruption, which will never change also.

 

The powers that be are well aware of the traffic laws / rules and stringent licensing requirements in other countries around the world, so why else would they choose to turn a blind eye to them, if they are so concerned about the situation.....

[Tofer]

23 hours ago, CNXexpat said:

Sure? This sign says "Drive slowly if you are drunk".

 

 

23 hours ago, CNXexpat said:

Sure? This sign says "Drive slowly if you are drunk".

 

Obviously a spoof sign.

 

I wonder how long that was allowed to stay in place?

[Airbagwill]

Why do officials not bring about change? - because they simply don't know how to.....they are completely uninformed on road safety issues and quite often aren't even intellectually up to the job.

RTIs deaths and injuries have been estimated (conservatively) as costing the country around 500 billion baht, that is 3%, of GDP per annum.

 

However it is not a matter of making people "drive better", it is a complete overhaul of the nations traffic system. 

Since WW2, Thailand has taken a laissez-faire attitude to industrialisation and the chaotic transport policies and lack of infrastructure has taken its toll.

THe Result is a road system that is not fit for purpose and increasingly dangerous - no alternative forms of transport (e.g. rail), vehicles that are unsuited to the road conditions uneducated road users and a police force and judiciary that are untrained to deal with any kind of trans port system.

There a virtually no emergency services, road design is appalling, police are incapable with a history of tea-money over legal proceedure, no scientific analysis of RTIs, there is no admin to enforce a fine or penalty system and no sign yet of adopting the Safe System" road safety approach that has reduced road deaths in EU to almost nil.

 

so long as people think that manning about "bad drivers" is the way to go, nothing will happen

 

Here are the basic principles.

1- People make mistakes that can lead to road crashes

2 - The human body has a limited physical ability to tolerate crash forces before harm occurs

3 - A shared responsibility exists amongst those who design, build, manage and use roads and vehicles and provide post-crash care to prevent crashes resulting in serious injury or death

4 - All parts of the system must be strengthened to multiply their effects; and if one part fails, road users are still protected.

 

"The Safe System approach marks a shift from a sole focus on crash reduction to the elimination of death and serious injury. Well-established safety principles underpin the Safe System approach as set out in Key Developments. Further principles include the following:

The combination of infrastructure safety features, vehicle safety features and travel speed(s) of crash-involved vehicles determines the impact forces that humans are subjected to in any crash. These interactions are to be managed to avoid fatal or serious injury outcomes.

Safety levels are to be the key determinant of sustainable mobility levels. Travel speeds require management to target levels below those known speed thresholds that deliver fatal or serious injury crash impact energies (based on the level of vehicle safety and mix, and the nature of protective infrastructure characteristics; See also Safe System Principles and Safe System Elements).

Safe System approaches typically aim to develop a road transport system that is better able to accommodate human error by providing a safe operating environment - despite human fallibility - and providing effective post-crash care.

A system-wide intervention strategy addressing all crash-phases and all Safe System elements is to be adopted, which addresses the safety of all road users.

Legislative and enforcement strategies that achieve widespread user compliance with road rules and laws are necessary, as are strategies which deter the entry and exit arrangements of users and vehicles to the road system." - https://roadsafety.piarc.org/en/road-safety-management-safe-system-approach/safe-system-principles

 

 

Edited December 30, 2019 by Airbagwill

[gmac]

All they need to do to cut the fatalities in half is to get rid of u-turns on major roads and replace them with roundabouts at major junctions to give drivers a safe way to turn right rather than drive 2 kilometres out of their way to make a dangerous u-turn, or drive the wrong way down the hard shoulder as many do.

 

I know, Thai people can't use roundabouts, but yes they can if given a chance.  An odd experimental roundabout here and there stands no chance and as has been proven around Pattaya Thai drivers indeed do not understand them but, given time, and a bit of police enforcement at the outset they will learn.  Haven't you noticed how the traffic runs much more smoothly when traffic lights fail, no queues, thai drivers can manage to adapt very well it would seem! 

[elliss]

On 12/29/2019 at 1:44 PM, PEE TEE said:

We all know it's going to happen same every year. just give the numbers after the 7 days and compare to last year.  Don't just blame the motorbikes, its the riders and idiot car drivers that smash into them and visa versa

 

     Never fails to be a popular topic , every year .

    We wait for the final results to come in ....

 

Edited December 30, 2019 by elliss

[Airbagwill]

6 minutes ago, gmac said:

All they need to do to cut the fatalities in half is to get rid of u-turns on major roads

So that will half the death rate? I think you need to check your figures on that one. Yet again the whole topic seen as solved by a single issue.

[Airbagwill]

It's almost as if people use the road deaths in Thailand with relish as a perceived "evidence" of their personal superiority over the people of Thailand,

Generalisation, cliche, stereotyping and racism seem to be the order off the day.

 

I wonder how many expats would put up their hand and admit to being an idiot driver too?

[Tofer]

1 hour ago, Airbagwill said:

 

Generalisation, cliche, stereotyping and racism seem to be the order off the day.

You mean as in your post #114.

 

Rather hypocritical wouldn't you agree.....

 

 

[Airbagwill]

6 hours ago, Tofer said:

You mean as in your post #114.

 

Rather hypocritical wouldn't you agree.....

 

 

Please exain how you come to this conclusion.

[Airbagwill]

On 12/29/2019 at 9:43 AM, csmith said:

So what point are you making?

Without a comment - these graphs - well known to many - are pointless

[superal]

10 hours ago, gmac said:

All they need to do to cut the fatalities in half is to get rid of u-turns on major roads and replace them with roundabouts at major junctions to give drivers a safe way to turn right rather than drive 2 kilometres out of their way to make a dangerous u-turn, or drive the wrong way down the hard shoulder as many do.

 

I know, Thai people can't use roundabouts, but yes they can if given a chance.  An odd experimental roundabout here and there stands no chance and as has been proven around Pattaya Thai drivers indeed do not understand them but, given time, and a bit of police enforcement at the outset they will learn.  Haven't you noticed how the traffic runs much more smoothly when traffic lights fail, no queues, thai drivers can manage to adapt very well it would seem! 

Agree , u-turns in moderate speed town traffic are much safer than when used on dual carriageways and even 3 lane motorways where the u-turn is used for both directions of traffic resulting in obscured vision . How often have you seen heavy transport vehicles make a u-turn from the opposite flow into your lanes causing drivers to make emergency stops ?     U-turns are cheap to construct compared with roundabouts and flyovers .   Traffic lights , ignoring the red light stop is very common and scary when a vehicle crosses at speed against the red light and you are pulling away on a green  (  I always look both ways before crossing over ) . As we know motor bike riders account for the majority of Thailand's road fatalities . There is little if any control from the police and the majority of riders show total disregard for the law  . The  bad riding and driving  skills / habits are the main reason for traffic incidents in Thailand . Even if you are a farang with decent riding knowledge means little as you are at risk from Thai road users . I know of 3 local farangs who were run and killed down by trucks plus others who were innocently involved in traffic accidents .