2020: Crackdown on tourists working without work permits - 50K fines and deportation awaits

[moldresistant]

1 hour ago, CH1961 said:

Naive boy, with all the encrypted traffic to/from your IP you will be the first target. 

Actually all the traffic to/from your IP to this website is encrypted along with Facebook, Instagram, Google, etc. Most websites use a form of encryption called SSL nowadays, so any website that starts with https:// is encrypted.

 

With SSL the internet service provicer can see what domain you are visiting, but can't see the exact page you're on or the information you submit into forms.

 

If you're still paranoid you can a) use a VPN and b) use encrypted DNS (such as dns-over-https).

 

That being said, the digital nomad posters are being way, way too paranoid IMHO. If you are that paranoid you certainly shouldn't be building a post history on this forum - easiest place to look!

[metisdead]

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[StevieAus]

10 hours ago, shadowofacloud said:

As a happy digital professional, working remotely from TH for a few months every year*, I say: come get me!

 

It really would be a fun experience, something to write about in a few years, plus the maximum fine of 50k isn't a major issue (most likely 5-10k under the table would solve the problem anyway).

 

[*] on tourist visas, of course. If the indolent authorities came up with a proper visa+work permit scheme for digital professionals (say, 1k usd pa), they would already be a few thousand USD richer.

People like yourself seem to think that they have a god given right to go to a country and break the law.

Thailand has laws dealing with the  employment of foreigners which is their right and as do most countries, if you don’t like those laws go elsewhere.

When my Thai wife first came to Australia many years ago she was prohibited from working and complied.

We have visited the UK several times and our Australia passports are stamped “ Employment and Recourse to Public Funds Prohibited” We comply

Hoping you have fun if caught and get to spend time some time in the Thai Immigration Detention Centre, I suspect that will take the smile off your face 

[shadowofacloud]

8 minutes ago, StevieAus said:

People like yourself seem to think that they have a god given right to go to a country and break the law.

[...]

Hoping you have fun if caught and get to spend time some time in the Thai Immigration Detention Centre, I suspect that will take the smile off your face 

 

OK, boomer.

[rexall]

11 minutes ago, StevieAus said:

People like yourself seem to think that they have a god given right to go to a country and break the law.

Thailand has laws dealing with the  employment of foreigners which is their right and as do most countries, if you don’t like those laws go elsewhere.

When my Thai wife first came to Australia many years ago she was prohibited from working and complied.

We have visited the UK several times and our Australia passports are stamped “ Employment and Recourse to Public Funds Prohibited” We comply

Hoping you have fun if caught and get to spend time some time in the Thai Immigration Detention Centre, I suspect that will take the smile off your face 

Yes, indeed. And we suspect it would put a big smile on YOUR face, Stevie, seeing this heinous scofflaws getting their just deserts!  Seriously, what has this guy, a perfect stranger, ever done to you to earn such cempt?

[moldresistant]

15 minutes ago, StevieAus said:

People like yourself seem to think that they have a god given right to go to a country and break the law.

Thailand has laws dealing with the  employment of foreigners which is their right and as do most countries, if you don’t like those laws go elsewhere.

When my Thai wife first came to Australia many years ago she was prohibited from working and complied.

We have visited the UK several times and our Australia passports are stamped “ Employment and Recourse to Public Funds Prohibited” We comply

Hoping you have fun if caught and get to spend time some time in the Thai Immigration Detention Centre, I suspect that will take the smile off your face 

It's really a catch-22 that should be addressed somehow. Try looking from a different perspective.

 

Situation A) You own a website with affiliate links. You get paid out by western companies. You don't actually need to work on it while you're in Thailand. Traffic comes and converts into cash. However, for as long as the website is up you are always "on call" if the site is down you have to quickly get it back up. Would you consider this work?

 

Situation B) You own a forum, like this one. It's user-generated content so the amount of real "work" is trivial, but again you're "on call". You can have moderators do the bulk of the work. Would you consider this work?

 

Situation C) You own a Facebook page or Instagram page and have enough followers for paid promotions. Many times this is just tagging another company, sharing an affiliate link or an advert photo. Not Thai companies. Would you consider this work?

 

 

Edited January 6, 2020 by moldresistant

[rexall]

6 minutes ago, shadowofacloud said:

 

OK, boomer.

I defended you in the previous post. But this "OK, boomer" isn't clever or funny, young man!

[Moti24]

2 hours ago, JAG said:

A hundred times

Snitch!  One of many in the Land of Snitches.

[JGV]

Clearly wanting to encourage foreigners to use agents and pay excessive fees to increase the wealth of officials who issue work permits

[rexall]

3 minutes ago, moldresistant said:

It's really a catch-22 that should be addressed somehow. Try looking from a different perspective.

 

Situation A) You own a website with affiliate links. You get paid out by western companies. You don't actually need to work on it while you're in Thailand. Traffic comes and converts into cash. However, for as long as the website is up you are always "on call" if the site is down you have to quickly get it back up. Would you consider this work?

 

Situation B) You own a forum, like this one. It's user-generated content so the amount of real "work" is trivial, but again you're "on call". You can have moderators do the bulk of the work. Would you consider this work?

 

Situation C) You own a Facebook page or Instagram page and have enough followers for paid promotions. Many times this is just tagging another company, sharing an affiliate link or an advert photo. Not Thai companies. Would you consider this work?

 

 

Even without the high-tech scenarios, thee have always been people such as writers who work remotely, and it isn't so much that this is illegal, more a matter that it just isn't covered in the law. But in any case, you are not going to persuade the OP; visions of soundbites like "THE LAW IS THE LAW" dance in his head. However, if I were to start a country and set myself up as dictator, I would recruit lots of charter members like the OP because I could rest easy knowing he would do exactly as told and never question the status quo.

 

[Dumbastheycome]

9 hours ago, Cabradelmar said:

How would this affect people doing charitable volunteer assistance for local schools and shelters? 

A very valid  question.

 

[Bjrda77]

2 hours ago, Oziex1 said:

"Mom Tao" What no Big...... nick name wouldn't take him too seriously. 

Actually "Mom" is bigger than "Big...". The word "Mom" is informally used to indicate his status of belonging to the Thai royal families, in his case "Mom Rajawongse..." which means that his father is a Mom Chao = His Serene Highness Prince). Thai people take every "Mom" seriously if you wonder.

[simon43]

Is someone on a retirement visa allowed to enrol in an educational course, such as to learn thai...or muay thai..or cook...or would immigration say they need an education visa and arrest them.

 

It's never been a requirement to have an ED visa to study a course in Thailand - so long as you are living here on another valid visa/extension, such as a retirement, marriage, business, volunteer, elite etc visa.

 

ED visas are available for those who do not meet the criteria for any of the above visa types.

[mngmn]

10 hours ago, H1w4yR1da said:

Need to get rid of the young 'professionals' in useless jobs like models, DJs, property agents, teacher agents, boiler roomers, island meditation 'gurus', etc.

I take it you are neither young or professional?

[Nsp64]

4 hours ago, shadowofacloud said:

You misunderstand - I don't give a toss if such country exists. I've told you what my expectations are regarding a visa for digital professionals. They may be unrealistic. They may need some fine-tuning, it's just a general idea.

 

But... No such visa? Fine, will work on TVs. They start lynching people with laptops? Fine, will move to another country (provided I am not lynched on my way out). It's that simple - I don't care.

Care enough for multiple comments though, dont you, Mr "smart pants"

[echrist]

11 hours ago, shadowofacloud said:

As a happy digital professional, working remotely from TH for a few months every year*, I say: come get me!

 

It really would be a fun experience, something to write about in a few years, plus the maximum fine of 50k isn't a major issue (most likely 5-10k under the table would solve the problem anyway).

 

[*] on tourist visas, of course. If the indolent authorities came up with a proper visa+work permit scheme for digital professionals (say, 1k usd pa), they would already be a few thousand USD richer.

it would be hard to prove that you are working as a digital nomad unless you admit to doing so when questioned. so nothing to be to concerned about. i think they are more interested in going after people working in brick and mortar type settings. 

[DaRoadrunner]

If they made it easier to get a Non O or business visa and work permit, Thailand would not have this problem of people working on tourist visas.

 

I recall applying for a work permit long ago and, having submitted all the correct paperwork, was turned down. How can you expect people to go the straight way when the labour dept is corrupt? 20,000 Baht went under the table before I got my permit. My Japanese business partner had to pay 50,000 (race discrimination or do they just think Japanese are rich).

 

Welcome to Thailand, your choice..... a 50,000 Baht fee or a 50,000 Baht fine.

Edited January 6, 2020 by DaRoadrunner

[LivinLOS]

4 hours ago, Drax said:

What if you have no employer nor tourist visa? ????. For instance owning an online business with passive income and stocks.

 

is it considered work to sell/buy  stocks and answer messages on phone while walking around? 

Stocks do not require a work permit to buy hold or sell. 

 

Taking messages on the phone would probably be going into the yes category. 

[LivinLOS]

3 hours ago, rexall said:

Can you even get a work permit if you do not work for a Thai company?  Someone who is more familiar with the law, correct me if I am wrong; is there any provision for work permits for people who are self-employed; writers, bloggers, journalists, photographers, day traders, those performing work for an overseas employer that is not registered in Thailand ???

 

There is / was the media visa and freelance work permit.. It would be ideal to modernize and re-interpret for vloggers bloggers etc but they havent choosen to. 

[dinsdale]

12 hours ago, Cabradelmar said:

How would this affect people doing charitable volunteer assistance for local schools and shelters? 

You need a work permit to do volunteer work. 

[LivinLOS]

3 hours ago, BobbyL said:

The idea of protecting certain jobs for Thais is fine. However, wouldn't it be easier for Thailand to perhaps introduce a specific visa for people that work remotely and want to live here. They spend their money in Thailand whilst they work on a laptop and surely that is a win - win for the country rather than this constant xenophobia. 

The problem is then how do they enforce taxation, how do they know turnover, how to they demand accurate accounts.. 

All of those things are controlled domestically by incorporation and work permitting.. Just suggesting they rip that up with zero replacement isnt going to be a persuasive argument. 

Which is why its being pushed to umbrella companies for tech workers, but when confronted with the reality of what lawyers, accountants, tax and social security costs, those same folks who a moment ago were 'happy to pay' suddenly baulk. 

[CH1961]

4 hours ago, shadowofacloud said:

 

LOL. Considering how many websites these days use https, I am sure that "encryption" would be the major factor here.

 

Thanks for brightening my day. ????

Do you really think the guys at your ISP can't distinguish normal https traffic to your prefered pron-site from packets to well known vpn server? 

What kind of digital artist you are? 

web site hobbyist? 

 

[BobinBKK]

Don't get caught helping your Thai girlfriend or Thai friends speak English! And that goes for bar girls too. As psychotic as these laws are and the people that enforce them, a simple conversation in English with a Thai person can be spun into you teaching English!!!

[LivinLOS]

2 hours ago, moldresistant said:

It's really a catch-22 that should be addressed somehow. Try looking from a different perspective.

 

Situation A) You own a website with affiliate links. You get paid out by western companies. You don't actually need to work on it while you're in Thailand. Traffic comes and converts into cash. However, for as long as the website is up you are always "on call" if the site is down you have to quickly get it back up. Would you consider this work?

 

Situation B) You own a forum, like this one. It's user-generated content so the amount of real "work" is trivial, but again you're "on call". You can have moderators do the bulk of the work. Would you consider this work?

 

Situation C) You own a Facebook page or Instagram page and have enough followers for paid promotions. Many times this is just tagging another company, sharing an affiliate link or an advert photo. Not Thai companies. Would you consider this work?

 

 

You need to look at the 2 issues of passive v active income.. Its quite clearly answered here by the employment office. 

 

https://thethaiger.com/issues-answers/asked/is-uploading-videos-to-youtube-considered-work

 

Quote

No, it isn’t, as long as the uploading is for fun or to share on social media networks publicly for free. However, if you turn on YouTube ads while living in Thailand, or post them in your own blog where they can collect revenue, this could be considered work. Even if you posted videos while outside Thailand, but then activated or turned on ads related to them, this would still be considered work, as you would be making money while in the country. It means you are working while you are living in the Kingdom. However, if you activated the ads before entering the country, but still received revenue once entering the country for your holiday, then this would not be considered as working while staying in Thailand.

 

[Wongkitlo]

8 hours ago, shy coconut said:

I was on phi phi a couple of years back and there were dozens of young white kids

working in and around the dive shops there and I would be surprised if they had permits.

 

I know 3 young guys who worked in dive schools who I know for sure didn't have permits.

The money wasn't great, covered/extended their holiday but still against the rules.

 

I'm not seething with anger at their actions, yet don't see a problem with the authorities

here enforcing their laws either.

Yes it would be great if all the dive instructors were Thai but  "Mai pben Rai" doesn't really work when you are 30 metres underwater.

[Jimbo53]

13 hours ago, mariohh1 said:

maybe out in the sticks but here on koh phangan are at least 100

 

 

Why dont you just phone the Hotline..you may as well.you have already given them a heads up putting in a location  fs. 

[impulse]

One thing I find amusing is the guys who complain all the time that their governments are letting their countries be invaded by foreigners, then turn around and complain when Thailand tries to stop it from happening in LOS.

 

I'm with some other guys.  I suspect that the vast majority of those being banged up will be from north of Thailand or from Africa.  Not Europe or the US.  Of course, some falang will make the headlines.  But that will be the tip of the iceberg.

 

Edited January 6, 2020 by impulse

[ujayujay]

13 hours ago, steven100 said:

I'm amazed that this would be a big deal, as i wouldn't suspect too many foreigners on tourist visa's working in Thailand .....  maybe a few but certainly not a hundred or even 30 .....   ? 

Dream on????????????

[Langkawee]

The land of sanook, lol ????

[ThaiHopper]

14 hours ago, steven100 said:

I'm amazed that this would be a big deal, as i wouldn't suspect too many foreigners on tourist visa's working in Thailand .....  maybe a few but certainly not a hundred or even 30 .....   ? 

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