Is Thailand Going Down In Flames?

[Temporaneo]

2007 have started out real bad and for the first time I have made plans to pack up and leave. Just not clear where yet, maybe to the Phillipines or Cambodia.

. . . where, no doubt, you will find things so much better than here. Good luck.

Immigration rules are much better for sure. And if it was not for lackness of middle class condominiums I would have moved to Angeles city already. Also much better cheese and chocolate and farang food in Philippines compared to Thailand. Oh...and even cheaper women too.

[astral]

It is still a viable destination for genuine tourists, staying for a maximum of 90 days.

It is also viable for business people and those married to Thai's, as long as you are well heeled.

[Temporaneo]

I've been coming to Thailand for 25 years and have lived here 5 years. The standard of living for almost everyone has steadily increased year after year. At some point sexpats will find it more difficult to exploit economic weakness toward their own ends. is that what you call going backwards?

I can assure you poor exploited girls keep ringing my phone and knocking at my door. And you can't imagine how they act desperate when I tell them I have no money or no power.

Couldn't you join the sexpats community to help us to support them ?

[bendix]

2007 have started out real bad and for the first time I have made plans to pack up and leave. Just not clear where yet, maybe to the Phillipines or Cambodia.

. . . where, no doubt, you will find things so much better than here. Good luck.

Immigration rules are much better for sure. And if it was not for lackness of middle class condominiums I would have moved to Angeles city already. Also much better cheese and chocolate and farang food in Philippines compared to Thailand. Oh...and even cheaper women too.

With all due respect (and I'm trying desperately hard not to flame), your desire to move to Angeles City firmly categorises you in that group of people who the Thai government would like to get rid of. There is no other way to state it politely.

Let's hope those condos get built soon and you can dedicate your life to . . ummm . . eating that chocolate and cheese as soon as possible.

[Temporaneo]

Cambodia. Ya, last I heard, foreign residents had house guards armed with AK47s. Nice way to live.

Went to Phnom Pehn in January and although did not like the place I can assure you foreign residents do not need armed guards there and you can walk on nights without any danger.

[Hobox]

Youtube is working .... and having never been to the Patong police station ... well I'll leave that for you But again ... I see no signs of police corruption being worse.

Please read this thread about youtube http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=114443

Maybe you are lucky to still be able to use it. Please put a post in the thread above on what service you use.

[ThaiGoon]

With all due respect (and I'm trying desperately hard not to flame), your desire to move to Angeles City firmly categorises you in that group of people who the Thai government would like to get rid of. There is no other way to state it politely.

Second (and third) it.

[Temporaneo]

2007 have started out real bad and for the first time I have made plans to pack up and leave. Just not clear where yet, maybe to the Phillipines or Cambodia.

. . . where, no doubt, you will find things so much better than here. Good luck.

Immigration rules are much better for sure. And if it was not for lackness of middle class condominiums I would have moved to Angeles city already. Also much better cheese and chocolate and farang food in Philippines compared to Thailand. Oh...and even cheaper women too.

With all due respect (and I'm trying desperately hard not to flame), your desire to move to Angeles City firmly categorises you in that group of people who the Thai government would like to get rid of. There is no other way to state it politely.

Let's hope those condos get built soon and you can dedicate your life to . . ummm . . eating that chocolate and cheese as soon as possible.

and don't forget pizza with double cheese topping and adequate salting !

I don't know if thai government would like to get rid of me (that would be quite foolish, although perfectly in line with cerebral capability of people who seek advice from a fortune teller), but I know for sure many thai girls that would not like that at all

[cdnvic]

Oh...and even cheaper women too.

Throw in a personality and a bath and they're free.

[ColPyat]

The situation in the South appears to have stabilized somewhat.

It hasn't. It gets worse every day. Almost everybody down south expects a religious/ethnic war between the communities.

A couple of posters mentioned the South or "border areas are safe" (similar wording, anyway). I do agree with Colpyat that these statements are simply not correct. - I "know" that by just reading the press that's allowed to get out. I hate to think how bad things really are down there.

Thanks.

Things are bad down there, about to get a lot worse. I have just been there, and will go back soon.

There is almost no in-depth reporting available in the English language media, and very little beyond the superficial in the Thai media. Soon a new book by Duncan McCargo about the southern situation will come out, i hope it will be more comprehensive.

[Hobox]

Oh...and even cheaper women too.

Throw in a personality and a bath and they're free.

First read this as "Throw in a personality and a baht and they're free"

[Temporaneo]

Interesting topic that has been flogged to death lately and attracts totally opposite views from both sides of the debate.

To me it is painfully clear the side of the fence you fall upon in this topic depends on what you actually want from where you live and your current situation and therefore will always be a subjective answer.

If you fall into the category of expat that has stable employment, stable relationship and stable visa situation then you could automatically fall into the positive side of the fence and view Thailand positively.

If you fall into the category of expat that has any sort of unstability (particularly visa) then you could automatically

fall into the negative side of the fence and view Thailand negatively.

As always perception is the key and its not always a black and white issue but many shades of grey.

Thailand is going through a period of change at the moment hence the uncertainty from many people both expat and Thai but as always I like to think positively and pragmatically as at the end of the day if I don't it's only my mental health that will suffer.

The VISA shake up does not affect only farangs that had to leave the country or suffer useless expenses to get visas abroad, but also many people with "stable work, relationship, visa". Do you think a real estate agent with "stable work ,relationship and visa" is happy about the current situation ?

[cdnvic]

Oh...and even cheaper women too.

Throw in a personality and a bath and they're free.

First read this as "Throw in a personality and a baht and they're free"

Well spotted

[PeaceBlondie]

Youtube is working .... and having never been to the Patong police station ... well I'll leave that for you But again ... I see no signs of police corruption being worse.

Again ... 8 years! Yes I can do my banking in Thai ... yes I can call the Thai #'s for service related things. I would think that anybody that lived here for that long would have managed to scrape together enough language skills in their adopted country's native language for survival I am only in my 4th year living in Thailand ... and though I still find LONG conversations on non-standard topics draining. I can manage it!

I can't get youtube because my dial-up is too slow, but that's not the fault of Thailand, exactly. As for corruption of police, I hadn't seen that, but maybe my ace in the hole is that my landlady's husband is a police general. I'm from Houston - lots of corrupt policemen there, I've heard (although I hadn't encountered them).

As for the language thing, jdinasia, I've got to hand you the award. Good on you. Some of us are tone deaf, or a bit too old to easily pick up a totally foreign language. Some of us live lives far inferior to yours, because we can't discuss with our fellow (degreed) educators how aroi the somtam pet mahk mahk is. I have spent lots of lunches with these ladies, whose advanced education seems limited to discussing spicy, stinky food. And the men ajarns like to be drunk when they're eating, but maybe that's just my fault for hobnobbing with the educated class.

Great country, Thailand. Much less violent than my home country. I don't think it's quickly going down in flames, but the past year hasn't seen much progress, especially for expatriates. I think most Thais will roll with the punches, if they can pay their debts.

[ray23]

No it's not going down in flames, it summer time and someone just left the heater on.

Politically if you read Thai history this is just business a usual and it will progress eventually' Are Thai's becoming anti farrang depends on what day you ask me

This was an amazing confusing place when I got here and it still is.

One of my favorite illusions Thailand has never been a occupied country, how do avoid that, invite your enemy in as a guest and you have not been occupied. (TT) Tis Thailand.

Other then I would like to see the dollar stronger in Thailand I'm actually and even a more happy camper then when I came here four years ago.

Has my life changed thu far by the poltical aspects not not yet.

[Temporaneo]

locals are getting worse at english (and I don't mean the bargirls now, I mean in banks, customer service and so on), etc etc

During my 8 years here now,

eight years and YOU don't speak THEIR language??? thats plain lazy and disrespectful

Why should he bother learning a language spoken in a place that does not give him a permanent visa ? He might be forced to leave the country anytime and move to Philippines or Cambodia where Thai would be completely useless. It's Thai Immigration that' s disrespectul of people who come to spend and invest their hard earned cash in Thailand.

[bendix]

Why should he bother learning a language spoken in a place that does not give him a permanent visa ? He might be forced to leave the country anytime and move to Philippines or Cambodia where Thai would be completely useless. It's Thai Immigration that' s disrespectul of people who come to spend and invest their hard earned cash in Thailand.

Ummmm .. . . . point of order and question to our respected mods. Does calling someone an idiot when they are, clearly, the aforementioned constitute 'flaming'?

Because if it does, I won't do it on the forum (although I can't pretend i won't mutter it under my breath discretely).

[Wolfie]

Ummmm .. . . . point of order and question to our respected mods. Does calling someone an idiot when they are, clearly, the aforementioned constitute 'flaming'?

I think its better to keep descriptions such as that off this thread.. its been a great debate so far and i'd hate for people to get suspended or the thread closed down due to name calling

[A_Traveller]

Re above, though it could have been better phrased, I have some sympathy for the view point thats says 'the maximum security of "tenure" is 364 days and that affects my long term planning' {linguistically in this case}.

Regards

PS In otherwords if an individual has a, say 5 year visa, and renewal options, it makes it more likely that they will endeavour to become more than 'survival fluent'.

/edit add PS //

Edited April 4, 2007 by A_Traveller

[bendix]

Good point,and thanks for the ruling Wolfie.

Consider it mumbled discretely only.

Now, let the debate continue . . . .

[cdnvic]

That is one thing Thailand could do is give some measure of security to investors. If they don't allow foreign land ownership, fine, but we should be allowed first option to renew our leases at market value. That would certainly help sway someone leery of building a 100 million baht factory or hotel.

[t.s]

Is thailand going down in flames?

what a load of alarmist crap.

[Hobox]

locals are getting worse at english (and I don't mean the bargirls now, I mean in banks, customer service and so on), etc etc

During my 8 years here now,

eight years and YOU don't speak THEIR language??? thats plain lazy and disrespectful

...and where did I say I don't speak Thai? I can get by, but that is not the point I was trying to make.

My absolute favorite example is TT&T's answering machine. "Please pless nine fol engeleish" A telephone company that don't even bother to use an english speaking person for the english pre-recorded message are in my eyes plain lazy and disrespectful towards its customers.

[KhunMarco]

My absolute favorite example is TT&T's answering machine. "Please pless nine fol engeleish" A telephone company that don't even bother to use an english speaking person for the english pre-recorded message are in my eyes plain lazy and disrespectful towards its customers.

Lol, In Italy you don't even have the English option... Today a girl at the condo office asked me "Ron mai?" well ,she had to repeat the phrase 3 times , because I was in English mode.. I'm an idiot ! What about you?

[ray23]

In all fairness to the original poster wasn't it question, not a statement.

Language well I suppose it's a matter of choice you can get by not speking Thai, but if you want good conversation with loacls beyond the tourist aspect. a real good thing to know.

I have an annual reneiwng for the fourth time next month, so I am gettign a lot closer the 5 year mark. You can get a resident permit, whcih does go beyond the annual time frame. But one of the requirements seldom ebforced is taht yt you can communicate in Thai. Me I'm retired so fro me its' a win win I enjoy the clases and hopefully I will be to enjoy my neighbors much more.

Invstring don;t ahve a clue why anyone woudl want to invest here. I haev a home I loose it in a divorce it would be the fourth one for the same reason and not of the others have been in Thailand.

Will I be forced to leave here maybe, but my retirement goes with me, so yes I will loose some money, won't be the first time in my life and it won't destroy me. Thailand is either a place that you want to be in or it's not. If it's not for you I hope you find the place that fits all yuor needs. Thailand fufills that for me.

PI I was marrie to a Filipna for 14 years, heck I could actually joined the ex inlawa and woudl have been welcome. They speak a lot moer englsih. Don't suppose there might be a reason why I moved to Thailand and not the P.I. do you.

If your looking for the perfect palce int eh world if you are disappointed in that search please let us knw wher it is. Cause I have never heard of it, not seen it but maybe it exists. Thailand is waht it is and it is not for everyone.

[davidjtayler]

Interesting topic that has been flogged to death lately and attracts totally opposite views from both sides of the debate.

To me it is painfully clear the side of the fence you fall upon in this topic depends on what you actually want from where you live and your current situation and therefore will always be a subjective answer.

If you fall into the category of expat that has stable employment, stable relationship and stable visa situation then you could automatically fall into the positive side of the fence and view Thailand positively.

If you fall into the category of expat that has any sort of unstability (particularly visa) then you could automatically

fall into the negative side of the fence and view Thailand negatively.

As always perception is the key and its not always a black and white issue but many shades of grey.

Thailand is going through a period of change at the moment hence the uncertainty from many people both expat and Thai but as always I like to think positively and pragmatically as at the end of the day if I don't it's only my mental health that will suffer.

The VISA shake up does not affect only farangs that had to leave the country or suffer useless expenses to get visas abroad, but also many people with "stable work, relationship, visa". Do you think a real estate agent with "stable work ,relationship and visa" is happy about the current situation ?

It depends on what they are actually selling ...

If it is land and property to foreign people under shell company names then that has always been and is illegal and now the Thai authorities are enforcing their laws so they would probably feel a tad nervous and rightly so....

If they are in the business of selling condominiums then as this is totally legal to purchase as a foreign person then I'm sure they are no more worried than they would be anywhere trying to sell their wares and making sure they succesfully complete their next sale and put bread on the table.

I'm not overtly familiar with the actual Thai labour laws and it seems a little ambiguous to me being that 'dealing in land' is one of the prohibited occupations to foreign aliens (I, myself, also know a few 'foreign estate agents') ... maybe Rumpole/Bendix can enlighten us with the actual law and its circumventions etc ...

Edited April 4, 2007 by davidjtayler

[PeaceBlondie]

Communication is important; I wouldn't have become an English teacher if I thought otherwise. There's also a cultural clash about what to talk about. Dang it, I like to complain about things over which I have no control! I like to discuss problems for which there is no solution.

I'm curious - what is that bird's name, is it migratory, is it the one that makes a sound like "whoeeeahayai" ending with a lisp? How much did you pay for 91 octane benzene in year 2548? What's the difference among all these kinds of policemen, and which would be offended by a bribe offer, or no offer?

But I like it here, coup or Thaksin, Buddhism or animism, materialism or not. I'm kind of thankful I never learned Tzotzil Mayan language, though - not much use for it here.

Maybe Thailand's no worse than it was in 2545 or in the year 2525, if man was still alive. Maybe it's better. Cambodia, you say, as an alternative? If western Kampuchea and Siem Reap are typical of Cambodia, I'm staying in Chiang Mai.

[jdinasia]

Youtube is working .... and having never been to the Patong police station ... well I'll leave that for you But again ... I see no signs of police corruption being worse.

Again ... 8 years! Yes I can do my banking in Thai ... yes I can call the Thai #'s for service related things. I would think that anybody that lived here for that long would have managed to scrape together enough language skills in their adopted country's native language for survival I am only in my 4th year living in Thailand ... and though I still find LONG conversations on non-standard topics draining. I can manage it!

I can't get youtube because my dial-up is too slow, but that's not the fault of Thailand, exactly. As for corruption of police, I hadn't seen that, but maybe my ace in the hole is that my landlady's husband is a police general. I'm from Houston - lots of corrupt policemen there, I've heard (although I hadn't encountered them).

As for the language thing, jdinasia, I've got to hand you the award. Good on you. Some of us are tone deaf, or a bit too old to easily pick up a totally foreign language. Some of us live lives far inferior to yours, because we can't discuss with our fellow (degreed) educators how aroi the somtam pet mahk mahk is. I have spent lots of lunches with these ladies, whose advanced education seems limited to discussing spicy, stinky food. And the men ajarns like to be drunk when they're eating, but maybe that's just my fault for hobnobbing with the educated class.

Great country, Thailand. Much less violent than my home country. I don't think it's quickly going down in flames, but the past year hasn't seen much progress, especially for expatriates. I think most Thais will roll with the punches, if they can pay their debts.

Must be rough being a teacher ... but I thought you were out of that gig now? Tone deaf? lol ... Some day it MIGHT happen that you meet some educated folks that think past their noses! Then again you might learn some more about the culture and who you discuss what with But I am sure the lunchroom chat most of the time in a school in the USA would be similar ... no not all ... but the chances are you are missing the other conversations completely.

do you HAVE to learn Thai? no! But after 8 years someone SHOULD be reasonably proficient. The point is not that you have to learn Thai ... but whining about tellers (low paid corporate job) in Patong (sex tourist heaven) don't speak English well enough for you! Most of the tourists in Phuket don't speak English that well either!

Have English skills gotten worse at banks in Patong? Dunno ... The currency exchange folks do ok.

Police corruption? again ... seems to be getting better ... or at least not worse

The tourist thing? Real tourists aren't affected.

Life gets progressivly easier here ... not harder.

[Hobox]

do you HAVE to learn Thai? no! But after 8 years someone SHOULD be reasonably proficient. The point is not that you have to learn Thai ... but whining about tellers (low paid corporate job) in Patong (sex tourist heaven) don't speak English well enough for you! Most of the tourists in Phuket don't speak English that well either!

Have English skills gotten worse at banks in Patong? Dunno ... The currency exchange folks do ok.

Police corruption? again ... seems to be getting better ... or at least not worse

The tourist thing? Real tourists aren't affected.

Life gets progressivly easier here ... not harder.

Have you even read my posts?

Real tourists? What are real tourists? And don't come with some BS about single men vs families, they are all tourists with the same basic needs.

Did you call 1103? Of course not.

Most tourists speaks good English. And again go to your local police station and have a cup of coffee and listen to what's going on there.

Stop living your life inside your little house and look out the window.

If you are that good at thai, call 1103 and don't press 9 for english and then explain to me why I can't reach youtube. Of course you will not do that. It's very different speaking thai and just be able to order your meal from your local restaurant. Since when do you need to talk to the exchange folks? You small talk with them? In my experience people just hand over money and get baht and a receipt back.

[Prakanong]

"Tourists ... you know the folks that go on vacation for a few weeks or a month ... maybe even 2 ... are not getting treated worse at all."

Exactly - I have noticed nothing has changed since resuming vacations only (and a few business trips where I notice it being better) in 2000 after living there.

I will be going a lot less in the last three years which have been for 3/4/5 months respectively. There are two main reasons for this though and nothing to do with Thailand.

One is I do not get European holidays anymore but Asian and the other is there are a lot of other places to see in the region easily accessible for me.

As for customer service etc ;-) I just had to endure something which harks back to BT in the 1970's from a very well known Singapore service provider this morning for which I have had to write to the Customer Relations Director.

I was a bit harsh to Thailand on the phone though when I told the engineer this was not Thailand, Malaysia or Belgium I thought I was dealing with!

Edited April 4, 2007 by Prakanong