Cocktail of flu, HIV drugs appears to help fight coronavirus: Thai doctors

[Tony125]

10 hours ago, AlexRich said:

Biologists at the Indian Institute of Technology issued a paper claiming that the virus has “HIV insertions” in it’s makeup that are unlikely to be “fortuitous”. In other words, more by design than luck. Suggesting that it is a virus made in the lab. It’s not peer reviewed and may well be consistent with Bat coronavirus ... and what they are hinting at may be wrong. There is a top level Institute of Virology based in Wuhan. They research, amongst other things, bat coronavirus.

 

I was puzzled as to as to why doctors would use HIV drugs?

Why? HIV = Human Immunodeficiency Virus . They figure if they have a treatment that can kill/reduce HIV that it might have an effect on the Corona Virus----both are virus.

[Cricky]

Many thousands of people have been cured.

 

There's only been 300 deaths, I'm not sure what the fuss is about 

[DrTuner]

1 hour ago, OffshoreMig said:

The VFSGlobal center in Bangkok, which services other counties not just Australia, is located on the 28th floor of the Trendy Building.  There are long queues and waiting times.  

And there's a few milling around the door waiting for their Thai wives to get back from the infection distribution cent... ah biometrics collection center. Been there, done that. I wonder what's wrong with the biometric data already stored in the Thai passports.

[DrTuner]

26 minutes ago, VYCM said:

Many thousands of people have been cured.

 

There's only been 300 deaths, I'm not sure what the fuss is about 

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

 

At least it has finally dipped under 50%.

[sirineou]

2 hours ago, Pedrogaz said:

I understand your frustration about the negativity about Thais and Thailand....but this is not how drugs and treatments are developed. You do proper controlled of compassionate use protocols and wait until the study is finished before announcing the results to the public. 

This is anecdotal evidence, and anecdotal evidence only...it has little or no scientific value other than to formulae an hypothesis that one can then test in a proper study.

The other thing is that the Chinese have been using antiretrovirals for a few weeks already. This our top makes out that Thailand has actually done something novel, which is not actually true.

There have been reports that the new coronavirus has genetic and protein components of the HIV virus, so the use of anti-retrovirals could represent a treatment approach. Sadly, if this is the case then the virus is man-made and probably part of a biological weapons program, released either accidentally by the Chinese or intentionally by a foreign power trying to injure the economy and bargaining power of China.

 Anecdotal evidence is what brings people to the conclusion that more study need to be done in a particular direction, and confirms that you are seeing the same as others.. So just because the Chinese have being using the same technique it does not mean that someone else could not, or that someone else could not announce that they are also getting good results using that technique.

    They did not take credit for making a new discovery in fact they gave credit to the chinese doctors.

"Chinese health officials have already been administering the HIV and flu drugs to fight the coronavirus. The use of the three together in a cocktail seemed to improve the treatment, the Thai doctors said. "

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-health-thailand/cocktail-of-flu-hiv-drugs-appears-to-help-fight-coronavirus-thai-doctors-idUSKBN1ZW0GQ

So I don't understand why all the negativity, actually I do, but let's not go there. 

 

[Tomy yupyup]

8 hours ago, legend49 said:

They do this often borrow some other countries trials. Last time a group at Chiang Mai University had developed a cure for cancer, some witches brew of herbs. Needless to say real experts poured that idea down the drain.

Would never trust any Thai statement on vaccines or cures. I remember them having huge international press conferences to announce they had found the cure for HIV and Ebola. Still waiting ???? 

[ICELANDMAN]

6 hours ago, Pedrogaz said:

I understand your frustration about the negativity about Thais and Thailand....but this is not how drugs and treatments are developed. You do proper controlled of compassionate use protocols and wait until the study is finished before announcing the results to the public. 

This is anecdotal evidence, and anecdotal evidence only...it has little or no scientific value other than to formulae an hypothesis that one can then test in a proper study.

The other thing is that the Chinese have been using antiretrovirals for a few weeks already. This our top makes out that Thailand has actually done something novel, which is not actually true.

There have been reports that the new coronavirus has genetic and protein components of the HIV virus, so the use of anti-retrovirals could represent a treatment approach. Sadly, if this is the case then the virus is man-made and probably part of a biological weapons program, released either accidentally by the Chinese or intentionally by a foreign power trying to injure the economy and bargaining power of China.

I agree with you, as by chance the contamination came out exactly in the worst period of maximum diffusion to make more victims, this coincidence is not credible.

Guess which country gets the most economic advantage?

And let's not forget the half-destruction of Chinese pigs, the coincidences are really increasing exponentially and it is absolutely becoming seriously dangerous worldwide.

 

 

 

[FarFlungFalang]

4 hours ago, emptypockets said:

What has Volkswagen got to do with it?

It's carried by Beetles!

[Thechook]

Thailand discovers the cure for everything Ebola and stars. They love to brag about it and they never share it with the world, the keep it to themselves whilst the world suffers.

[PatOngo]

28 minutes ago, Thechook said:

Thailand discovers the cure for everything Ebola and stars. They love to brag about it and they never share it with the world, the keep it to themselves whilst the world suffers.

They are still struggling to find a cure for road fatality syndrome!

[Artisi]

5 hours ago, PatOngo said:

They are still struggling to find a cure for road fatality syndrome!

Complete and utter lost cause.... 

[cardinalblue]

Then maybe better journslism as the title and article that the drugs are fighting the virus....not true

 

the drugs reduce the symptoms of the virus...Only the immune system will or will not handle the virus...hence people either die or eliminate/overcome the virus...

 

the doctor is implying we gave these drugs and look no virus 10 days later in testing...he is implying correlation and up to this point in medical history, no known man made drugs can cure viruses...and CDC restated this notion again last week..

[geriatrickid]

21 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

http://research.uga.edu/docs/policies/compliance/hso/Guidance-on-Emergency-and-Off-Label-Use-of-Drugs-Biologics-and-Medical-Devices.pdf

 

Off label use is totally fine in emergency situations, it is often even paid by insurance companies (cancer treatments etc).

 

 

I think, if you ever get this, you should refuse the doctors if they offer you this medicine. Just to make a point.

 

Aside from the fact that you took a document out of context and ignored the  multiple documents  that attach setting out oversight compliance, did you read the link you posted? If you did, you obviously did not understand what was referenced.

 

A treating clinician, therefore, may use a legally marketed product for a purpose other than that approved by the FDA (i.e., off-label), but in doing so must be well informed about the product, must base its use on firm scientific rationale and sound medical evidence, and must maintain records of the product’s use and effects. If the off-label use of an FDA-approved product is a clinical investigation or research to collect data about the product’s safety or efficacy, or for other non-diagnostic or non-therapeutic purposes, review by an IRB is required if human subjects are involved. The use of an FDA-approved product in an “offlabel” manner when the intent is the "practice of medicine" (i.e., in the diagnosis, cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of disease in humans as opposed to research purposes) does not require the submission of an Investigational New Drug Application (IND), Investigational Device Exemption (IDE) or review by an IRB. However, the institution at which the product will be used may, under its own authority, require IRB review or other institutional oversight.

 

The above excerpt  supports what I initially wrote.  There was a clinical trial underway and it was cleared with the drug manufacturer and with WHO.  Did the  Thai  hospital even clear their activity with those leading the  investigations? The Chinese investigation  team has provided preliminary information for peer review. Where is the Thai filing? I stand by my experience that there isn't one  accredited R&D facility or teaching hospital in the developed world that under these circumstances, would not  require off label use to be submitted to a review board.

 

And fyi, the use of drugs off label for oncology regimens is significantly different than for infectious diseases.

 

 

 

[happy chappie]

I think a good bottle of hocus pocus cures anything.

[geriatrickid]

21 hours ago, rabas said:

Are you aware that doctors throughout the world were doing the same thing during the SARS epidemic? I posted a reference to some of the results but I guess you did not read it. The use of HIV drugs against SARS like viruses in not new. Here is one of a ton of papers from 2004:  HIV protease inhibitor nelfinavir inhibits replication of SARS-associated coronavirus.

LOL. So what? People may have behaved inappropriately at the time as well.  Don't cite documents that you have not actually read because  you certainly do not understand the difference between testing in a petri dish or in animals vs. testing on humans.  You do Apprently, you do not understand the difference between an IRB approved investigative study and the use of a drug offlabel without a clinical research protocol, nor do you understand clinical research activity and the rules and regulations that apply. 

 

None of the research you reference  went anywhere. Do you know why? 

The reason is that the SARS crisis ended once the hospitals implemented new infection control strategies. SARS was being spread in hospitals. Once the revised protocols were initiated, the number of infections dropped and the patient quarantines did their job. People either recovered or died, but new cases were stopped.  There was no magical cure, no use of off label medications, no silver bullet. Common sense measures did what drugs could not.

BTW, the initial samples and work on all these magical treatments are sitting in freezers around the world. The US NIH has been asking for a few million dollars for years to get its research going.  Because SARS wasn't of interest once the  epidemic  was stopped, there was no support for funding.

 

[ThomasThBKK]

4 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

 

The above excerpt  supports what I initially wrote.  There was a clinical trial underway and it was cleared with the drug manufacturer and with WHO.  Did the  Thai  hospital even clear their activity with those leading the  investigations? The Chinese investigation  team has provided preliminary information for peer review. Where is the Thai filing? I stand by my experience that there isn't one  accredited R&D facility or teaching hospital in the developed world that under these circumstances, would not  require off label use to be submitted to a review board.

 

And fyi, the use of drugs off label for oncology regimens is significantly different than for infectious diseases.

 

Then you wake up and realize no one gives a shat about your "experience" here. 

Off label use is totally fine in Thailand, maybe you should sue the thai gov for allowing that? 

report back after you are done.

 

UK regulation: 

Quote

Regulation in the United Kingdom[edit]

Physicians in the United Kingdom can prescribe medications off-label. According to General Medical Council guidance, the physician must be satisfied that there is sufficient evidence or experience of using the medicine to demonstrate safety and efficacy. Prescribing may be necessary when no suitably licensed medicine is available to meet the patient's need (or when the prescribing is part of approved research).^[31]

 

There's certainly sufficient evidence based on SARS and MERS and the alternative was dead.

 

Quote

• “Off-label use” is legal unless it violates ethical guidelines or safety regulations, which may vary between countries(11). The practice occurs in many specialties of medicine and is more likely in populations that are not well represented in clinical trials, such as children and pregnant women.

• Off-label use” falls under the purview of national regulatory agencies (i.e. a country-specific activity and responsibility). “Off-label use” is often applied by clinicians in the interest of individual patient benefit and requires proper coo

 

These are the WHO guidelines. 

 

 

 

someones life got rescued, but people complain ABOUT GUIDELINES OF OFFLABEL USE based on some <deleted> up <deleted> country they are probably from, likely the USA, i hope you all complaining won't get any off label drugs if you ever need, just to make a point. ????‍♂️

[from the home of CC]

On 2/3/2020 at 7:50 AM, sirineou said:

Can farangs find anything positive about Thailand? Nowhere did they say it was a cure , and used the qualifier "seems too" , What is so bad about that? It seems pretty reasonable to me that they would report their experience so far, but make no claims other than what the saw so far.

All this negativity is really annoying. 

because for some nationalities its a team sport to knock anyone whose 'not like us'. It's amusing that some of them endlessly complain after facing the immigration tightening. when that's what a lot of them scream about wanting the same on the home front.. 

[Just Weird]

On 2/3/2020 at 4:11 AM, AlexRich said:

I was puzzled as to as to why doctors would use HIV drugs?

Perhaps your not being a doctor would explain your puzzlement.

[Just Weird]

On 2/3/2020 at 8:54 AM, justin case said:

they now cured CORONA

Got a link to support that statement? No, 'course you haven't.

[Cricky]

On 2/4/2020 at 7:27 PM, Just Weird said:

On 2/3/2020 at 8:54 AM, justin case said:

they now cured CORONA

Got a link to support that statement? No, 'course you haven't.

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

[Saint Nick]

On 2/3/2020 at 9:25 AM, herwin1234 said:

Doctors are trying to find a cure, and being transparant they report patients seem to respond well but stress its not a cure.  Hardworking Thai medical profesionals, doing their best to fight this disease, unfairly trashed again by the feebleminded cynical farangs.  What a sad pathetic bunch of ppl. 

...and maybe...just maybe...some people would not be so negative, if they didn't make all those experiences with daily Thai- BS!

I refer to the aforementioned "cure" for Ebola, that Thai- doctors reportedly found and which was hailed in all Thai- media (and probably by you and your Thai- defending friends), before it vanished, never to be heard of again!

...or the claim by the PM, that the virus in Thailand is 100% under control...

etc etc etc ad infinitum 

[metisdead]

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[Just Weird]

1 hour ago, VYCM said:

On 2/4/2020 at 7:27 PM, Just Weird said:

On 2/3/2020 at 8:54 AM, justin case said:

they now cured CORONA

Got a link to support that statement? No, 'course you haven't.

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

The person I responded to, justin case, asserted that Thailand claimed to have found a cure for the coronavirus.  Thailand has not made that claim and the link that you added says nothing of the kind either.  Thanks.