Irish cyclist (42) dies following accident in Thailand

webfact · February 21, 2020

Irish cyclist (42) dies following accident in Thailand

Shane Phelan

John Martyn (42) from Ballinderreen, Co Galway, who died in a cycling accident in Thailand on February 9.

AN IRISH man has died in a cycling accident in Thailand.

John Martyn (42) is believed to have collided with a vehicle while descending in mountainous terrain near Chiang Mai in the north of the country.

The accident happened after he extended a cycling holiday after travel restrictions were imposed due to the coronavirus outbreak in China.

From a farm family in Ballinderreen, Co Galway, he had been living in Beijing in recent years and worked as a counsellor in a school there.

Full story: https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/irish-cyclist-42-dies-following-accident-in-thailand-38975578.html

-- Independent 2020-02-21

holy cow cm · February 21, 2020

That makes 2 in 1-2 months dead now.

Assurancetourix · February 21, 2020

38 minutes ago, webfact said:

John Martyn (42) is believed to have collided with a vehicle while descending in mountainous terrain near Chiang Mai in the north of the country.

To see his bicycle which is a road bicycle, I think that once again the author of the article has mixed his pedals (sic);
It certainly did not happen off track or vehicles are very rare and drivers always do what they can to avoid us, we cyclists, by stopping when necessary.
With this type of bicycle, one wisely stays on paved roads; even if wisely can sometimes go at high speeds.
When I descend the Doi Suthep, I often drive at more than 60 km / h and I overtake the Thai people who brake in all corners while the slopes are far from being severe.

RIP my fellow friend I did knew

Maybole · February 21, 2020

Did he collide with the other vehicle or did the other vehicle collide with him ? There is a difference.

madmen · February 21, 2020

Anything on 2 wheels here is living on borrowed time

Nakmuay887 · February 21, 2020

13 hours ago, Assurancetourix said:

To see his bicycle which is a road bicycle, I think that once again the author of the article has mixed his pedals (sic);
It certainly did not happen off track or vehicles are very rare and drivers always do what they can to avoid us, we cyclists, by stopping when necessary.
With this type of bicycle, one wisely stays on paved roads; even if wisely can sometimes go at high speeds.
When I descend the Doi Suthep, I often drive at more than 60 km / h and I overtake the Thai people who brake in all corners while the slopes are far from being severe.

RIP my fellow friend I did knew

It's actually a hobby that I am very interested in!

Rest in peace to this poor guy, I know this area

metempsychotic · February 21, 2020

14 hours ago, Assurancetourix said:

To see his bicycle which is a road bicycle, I think that once again the author of the article has mixed his pedals (sic);
It certainly did not happen off track or vehicles are very rare and drivers always do what they can to avoid us, we cyclists, by stopping when necessary.
With this type of bicycle, one wisely stays on paved roads; even if wisely can sometimes go at high speeds.
When I descend the Doi Suthep, I often drive at more than 60 km / h and I overtake the Thai people who brake in all corners while the slopes are far from being severe.

RIP my fellow friend I did knew

Where do you even get the impression he was off track?

The article certainly doenst say anything to thst effect.

road cyclists clim hills. From the top, they decend, how is that unclear?

impulse · February 21, 2020

15 hours ago, holy cow cm said:

That makes 2 in 1-2 months dead now.

Just about on par with Ireland...

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/irish-cycling-accidents-a-graphical-guide-1.3492008

balo · February 21, 2020

Another preventable death, RIP.

RichardColeman · February 22, 2020

Sorry, but surely the first thing you do if planning a cycle holiday is check the SAFETY of the roads of the country you are travelling. Does the country have the worst road safety incidents outside of a warzone - If YES, the matter between your ears should be shouting 'avoid' !

Nkpjed · February 22, 2020

It’s a tragedy he died this way but cycling on Thai roads is not a smart thing to do.

herwin1234 · February 22, 2020

7 hours ago, impulse said:

Just about on par with Ireland...

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/irish-cycling-accidents-a-graphical-guide-1.3492008

Tragic accident.

bicycling myself for a decade in Thailand now. Always a pleasure and feel completely safe though...

that said, i bike in the city, not from descending mountains on top speed.

Isaan sailor · February 22, 2020

Yes, tragic accident—my condolences. I take my mountain bike along the dirt roads each day. Not as fast, but very few cars and trucks. And chickens and gwua Are never drunk on the road...

justin case · February 22, 2020

this is not a safe country if you are not in a big fat car / truck

hotchilli · February 22, 2020

4 hours ago, balo said:

Another preventable death, RIP.

Death is not preventable... we all go in the end, it's just the timing that changes.
[but I know what you mean]

Proboscis · February 22, 2020

9 hours ago, Nakmuay887 said:

It's actually a hobby that I am very interested in!

Rest in peace to this poor guy, I know this area

I am an avid cyclist but not in Thailand. Motorists here have no respect for life, including their own and their own family members in the cars they are driving!

Ventenio · February 22, 2020

I've ridden (not drove....you ride a bicycle...lol) around CM for years and possibly 40,000 kms. Top speed about 90 kph and on Doi Suthep going up a little slower than 30 minutes. I can comment on cycling in Thailand. The road DOESN'T matter, speed DOESN'T matter....It's all personal awareness and experience. It can never can get the odds of NOT dying to 0%, only better odds of surviving.

Example: Coming down the Doi. Oil on the road? First few corners you don't have your normal "flow," tires don't feel the same, sunlight is bad, more cars than normal.....as a cyclist, you have to really be hitting a "sweet spot" to take more chances. Some roads I simply can't find a good flow, and forget it. Some I really can. CM has a zillion roads, so you need to go and ride many roads until you find your flow. Doi suthep, for me, is HORRIBLE 40% of the time. I have a feeling he didn't die on that road, however.

Sure, it's super dangerous, but I recommend finding some roads and sticking to what you know. then no real surprises. and way safer riding alone than in a group. or going out and riding random mountains if not very experienced. less experienced cyclists can get over their head very fast, and then they put everyone in danger.

Now there are only TWO roads close-by I'm comfortable enough with to go 75+ and feel safe. Really, you go from like 60 to 80 to 60 in usually 15 seconds. at least, that's what I do. get that rush. and if alone you can wait for 10-minutes until there are less or no cars and it feels right.

if a new cyclist, forget CM. It's simply too steep or flat, and the Doi would a nightmare. thailand isn't a good place to take unnecessary chances with your health.

I slowed down my cycling when five acquaintances died in a year. Then I realized it was pointless to spend hours and hours and hours riding. 2 hours max, just go hard. Or even 1 hour. i wouldn't recommend cycling but I really, really understand why people ride.

Maybe I've ridden 100,000 kms or more, probably more, and I've never come close to really collide with a vehicle. So I would like to learn more about the accident.

impulse · February 22, 2020

1 hour ago, RichardColeman said:

Sorry, but surely the first thing you do if planning a cycle holiday is check the SAFETY of the roads of the country you are travelling. Does the country have the worst road safety incidents outside of a warzone - If YES, the matter between your ears should be shouting 'avoid' !

I love it when people pull out that worn out "statistic" with no understanding of the numbers behind it. By a factor of 100, Thailand doesn't even come close to the top dangerous countries per registered vehicle. You're 100x as likely to be killed in a vehicle in some countries as in Thailand. It's 2.5x as dangerous to get into a vehicle in the Phils than in Thailand. Over 4x as likely to get killed in a given vehicle in Myanmar as in Thailand. Vietnam is about the same as Thailand.

Thailand has a high death rate per capita because so many people can afford scooters and not that many (relatively speaking) can afford safer modes of transport..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

Edited February 22, 2020 by impulse

Ventenio · February 22, 2020

I just looked at some of his previous rides. He looks pretty experienced, and his descending times down Doi Suthep were not, in my opinion, at a "reckless level." I'll look later for more information, but I am certainly thinking he had the worst luck possible. Again, I don't think he had a ton of experience riding in CM, so maybe his accident was on "one of those roads" that I would be afraid to ride on. There are many of those.

RIP

LomSak27 · February 22, 2020

8 hours ago, impulse said:

23 hours ago, holy cow cm said:

That makes 2 in 1-2 months dead now.

Just about on par with Ireland...

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/irish-cycling-accidents-a-graphical-guide-1.3492008

~~Fake statistics~~

Misleading Statistics

RichardColeman · February 22, 2020

18 minutes ago, impulse said:

Thailand has a high death rate per capita because so many people can afford scooters and not that many (relatively speaking) can afford safer modes of transport..

No, there would just be more car deaths.

ChipButty · February 22, 2020

There is a lot of cyclist in Phuket I have rode my bike for 20 years in Thailand I found it OK never had a problem should I say lots of guys make their way to Nai Harn around the lake,

To fellow cyclist please dont ride your bike at 5-30am all dressed in Black and no lights on ya bike it's difficult to see you and the street lighting is not that good.

tarmovannas · February 22, 2020

3 minutes ago, Ventenio said:

I just looked at some of his previous rides. He looks pretty experienced, and his descending times down Doi Suthep were not, in my opinion, at a "reckless level." I'll look later for more information, but I am certainly thinking he had the worst luck possible. Again, I don't think he had a ton of experience riding in CM, so maybe his accident was on "one of those roads" that I would be afraid to ride on. There are many of those.

RIP

From the photo that the 55 club posted on facebook it looked like the accident happened up on the narrow Doi Pui view point/camping area road — past the Palace, turning right onto the narrow road up Doi Pui high point (straight continues down to the Hmong village). The narrow road there has been just recently resurfaced, after being in terrible condition for quite a while, so it is now all smooth, hence some drivers there are probably going even faster. Going up is usually not too much of a problem (as a cyclist), though the same risks are there, but coming down really have to be careful, the locals can ride (their motorbikes) and drive their vehicles often way too fast and leave very little room, they seem to think that honking their horns somehow would prevent accidents (which it does, but obviously very little — you should be aware of how to ride/drive and take precaution accordingly, meaning choose your speed and position on the road preemptively). I've had plenty of sketchy moments up there over the many years I've been cycling these roads, nothing to do with the cyclist's speed or experience level (not really as long as you know how to ride a road bike and prioritize safety as any cyclist should/would) — very little room left to pass oncoming vehicles, though cyclists on road bikes are plenty more narrow than motorbikes and can fit through much tighter gaps, so I would guess it's probably even more dangerous for motorbikes, specially tourists on rented scooters (usually with no helmets), who are not experienced bike riders and whom I see creating dangerous situations on the mountainous roads here all the time — changing their line inside the corners, stopping in the middle of the road, not thinking about traffic behind them, going way too slow and weaving around... but that's another story.

AFAIK there are no details on how the accident actually happened or what happened (which is usual, if there are no cameras around, even then...), but from the photo it seemed like he had taken damage to his head/face and the fact that it resulted in death seems to indicate at least to me that he must have collided with something hard and heavy head/face on unexpectedly, usually see that when a cyclist gets hit by a truck. But this is just speculation. Also it probably took a long time for the ambulance to get up there, I would guess maybe an hour.

Now, anyone who says something about road cycling in Thailand being the most stupid/dangerous thing to do etc, well... it is a dangerous sport no matter where in the world you are, that's a simple fact. Having been to many places around the world road cycling, Chiang Mai (apart from the air quality, specially in the winter months) is actually one of the most comfortable places to ride (it's not really safe anywhere, apart from closed roads, but even then pro cyclists die in accidents involving none other than other cyclists, even on pan flat roads — Tour of Poland 2019), once you get used to the flow of things and exactly what to watch out for (always need to be alert of the most absurd possible maneuver coming from any side of the road or dogs/chicken running out in an istant from nowhere) — but this is the case everywhere in the world, the difference is that in most places you will be much closer to the traffic, meaning much less space on the road and much less two-wheeled vehicles (and awareness of them) in general on the roads. It's all very relative, I could keep writing about this in detail, but there's not much point, the summary is that accidents involving cyclists (and motor vehicle drivers) happen everywhere where cyclists are present, and motor vehicle drivers just need to be more actively aware of their responsibility to assure the safety of the cyclists (assuming the cyclists are doing the same), because they are the larger and stronger ones, they can kill us in a heartbeat. Most cyclists are motor vehicle drivers themselves and know this very well, and drive accordingly, with respect and care, if everyone did that, the amount of accidents would be likely much less, the ones that can be prevented at least. Having said all that, it is totally possible that the cyclist in this case made a mistake or something other very unfortunate happened, like a front tire sidewall blowout, a larger-sized rock on the road noticing it last moment and hitting it straight with the front wheel, and a car coming at the same time, etc the list is endless.

Chiang Mai is a very popular road cycling destination, so are many other places in Thailand and elsewhere in Asia, and road cycling popularity (as a sport) has certainly been on the rise.

Ventenio · February 22, 2020

1 hour ago, tarmovannas said:

From the photo that the 55 club posted on facebook it looked like the accident happened up on the narrow Doi Pui view point/camping area road — past the Palace, turning right onto the narrow road up Doi Pui high point (straight continues down to the Hmong village).

Interesting, thanks. I've been on that road only a few times, and back when the road was as in horrible condition. I think I remember a lot of honking into the turns, because every turn is blind and really narrow compared to the climb up before the turn-off. That's a pretty bad road and it would definitely be easy for a head-on collision. I guess luckily for me the last time I was there it rained, I was extra-cautious, and decided never to ride it again. I don't remember that section being fast, just technical. But head-on is head-on. From experience, I'm a little tired after a long climb...so that doesn't help.

A front-tire blow out this time of year (not too hot), I'm guessing is pretty rare. It always happens in our minds, and i've only experienced it once on a descent. lucky i was fine. didn't crash.

The korean rider who died, I'm guessing he was very fast on a team and looking to really sharpen his skills. Really should have people re-think road racing with lots of descending. Crash in a crit, you're not dying.

Edited February 22, 2020 by Ventenio

Redline · February 22, 2020

I would never ride a bicycle on Thai roads

Assurancetourix · February 22, 2020

On 2/21/2020 at 10:16 AM, webfact said:

while descending in mountainous terrain

12 hours ago, metempsychotic said:

Where do you even get the impression he was off track?

The article certainly doenst say anything to thst effect.

If he had been on a paved road, the reporter would not have written this or he would have written anything not knowing where it happened

" while descending in mountainous terrain near Chiang Mai "

richard_smith237 · February 22, 2020

4 minutes ago, Redline said:

I would never ride a bicycle on Thai roads

I have and didn’t feel it was particularly unsafe (at the time). In general 4 wheeled traffic left plenty of space and treated me (as a cyclist) with some ‘road respect’... motorcyclists on the hand were complete tools, pulling out and cutting me up.

The issue is, it doesn’t matter how safe we feel, it takes one driver to not be paying attention, to be looking at their phone etc to mow you down and kill you. The penalties for such mistakes are so slim there is little incentive for drivers to follow the laws, the education of the consequences of such actions so poor people just don’t know, don’t care and don’t want to care.

I stopped riding my bicycle on Thailands roads - the speed difference between a cyclist and passing traffic is just too high, its too easy to get knocked off by a careless or drunk idiot.

richard_smith237 · February 22, 2020

5 minutes ago, Assurancetourix said:

On 2/21/2020 at 10:16 AM, webfact said:

while descending in mountainous terrain

12 hours ago, metempsychotic said:

Where do you even get the impression he was off track?

The article certainly doenst say anything to thst effect.

If he had been on a paved road, the reporter would not have written this or he would have written anything not knowing where it happened

" while descending in mountainous terrain near Chiang Mai "

A lot of argument about semantics - its pretty obvious the deceased was riding down the steep mountain road.

Just Weird · February 22, 2020

On 2/21/2020 at 11:01 AM, Assurancetourix said:

To see his bicycle which is a road bicycle, I think that once again the author of the article has mixed his pedals (sic);

That is not claimed to be a photo of him riding the same bike in Thailand. It's a picture procured by The Independent which wrote the article.

"I think that once again the author of the article has mixed his pedals..."

Once again? So you've read a previous inaccurate article (in your view) by the Irish author of this report, Shane Phelan, before?

Edited February 22, 2020 by Just Weird

Assurancetourix · February 22, 2020

2 hours ago, tarmovannas said:

From the photo that the 55 club posted on facebook it looked like the accident happened up on the narrow Doi Pui view point/camping area road — past the Palace, turning right onto the narrow road up Doi Pui high point (straight continues down to the Hmong village). The narrow road there has been just recently resurfaced, after being in terrible condition for quite a while,

Things are getting clearer ..
This road ( n* 4038 ) in perfect condition is very narrow; when I cycle on it no car can overtake me without making me fall to the ground; and the guy or the girl will understand her pain for making me fall to the ground.
If I have to cross a vehicle with 4 wheels going down (or going up), I do not try to make the cador, I go down from my bike, I put myself as far left as possible on the tiny slope and I let pass the vehicle .

After the Doi Thung Palace, going up, the road is still paved for a few hundred meters then it is red earth to the small lake at the bottom.

If the fatal accident occurred on this asphalt road it is the fault of "no luck"; in fact the fault of the two users because both had to drive too fast.