Is this a good time to buy a Condo?

[bkk6060]

13 hours ago, Susco said:

Another dreamer who think 1997

Well, wrong.

1999 to 2005.

You may want to educate yourself before posting false information.

[Susco]

5 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

13 hours ago, Susco said:

Another dreamer who think 1997

Well, wrong.

1999 to 2005.

You may want to educate yourself before posting false information.

How about trying to educate yourself?

 

So you want to claim that this special measure had nothing to do with the 1997 crash?

 

 

[topt]

On 3/6/2020 at 9:18 AM, Henryford said:

What money would that be? Payments on a yet to be built condo would go i assume to the developer not the RE agent.

Have a read.......

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1151845-pattaya’s-biggest-ever-property-scam-ukrainian man-on-the-run-after-300-million-baht-fraud/

[Leaver]

On 3/6/2020 at 12:20 PM, newnative said:

Third, the owners freely agree to sell the condo project-

Is that the 51% of Thai owners. or the 49% of foreign owners?  ????

[newnative]

2 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Is that the 51% of Thai owners. or the 49% of foreign owners?  ????

All the owners, Thai and foreign, would be free to vote on selling the condo project, just as they are for votes on all condo matters at annual meetings.  A Thai owner and a foreign owner with identical-size units will have the same weighted vote.  

[Leaver]

On 3/8/2020 at 3:07 AM, newnative said:

All the owners, Thai and foreign, would be free to vote on selling the condo project, just as they are for votes on all condo matters at annual meetings.  A Thai owner and a foreign owner with identical-size units will have the same weighted vote.  

It's a maths equation.

 

Each individual vote is equal, however, foreigners, being in the forced minority of 49%, actually makes their vote slightly unequal. 

 

Interesting for when a developer has stacked the 51% with family, just to get around the law, which means a foreigner's vote is worthless. 

[bkk6060]

Spoke to my real estate friend today.

She said things are slow slow slow.

Many sellers willing to carry back paper.

In other words, 50% down and they will carry the rest for letś say 10 years at a low interest rate.

 

If I were in the market, I would go in on a 3 million b property at 2 million.

One million down, seller carries the rest for 10 years at 3%.

Payment each month around 10,000 b.

Of course, some strict requirements regarding non payment of the carry back.

 

Anyway, be creative now.  Definitely a buyers market according to her so go low with any offers.

 

 

 

[how241]

25 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Interesting for when a developer has stacked the 51% with family, just to get around the law, which means a foreigner's vote is worthless. 

Financially,  I can't see how that would be worthwhile. I guess it is possible.

[Leaver]

5 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

If I were in the market, I would go in on a 3 million b property at 2 million.

Why?

 

Sit back for a while and get the same place for 1 million.  

 

What makes you think Pattaya will be a preferred place to holiday, or reside, in the future?  

[Leaver]

7 minutes ago, how241 said:

Financially,  I can't see how that would be worthwhile. I guess it is possible.

Yes, having a majority say on a whole condo block, whilst only having to own 51% of the block, is not worthwhile at all.  ????

[how241]

35 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Yes, having a majority say on a whole condo block, whilst only having to own 51% of the block, is not worthwhile at all.  ????

OK,  but what exactly will you want to do with this control that is it worth tieing up all that money ??    Why would you be so afraid that a farang wouldn't also vote for the same changes you want to make ??

[how241]

41 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Why?

 

Sit back for a while and get the same place for 1 million.  

 

What makes you think Pattaya will be a preferred place to holiday, or reside, in the future?  

The hardest thing is to drop the hammer,  and buy or sell.  For some,  who never ending up doing anything,  the price is NEVER good enough.  This applies to both buying and  selling.  It's always a guessing game and you need some luck on your side. IMHO

[Lacessit]

Right now, it's a good time to sit on whatever cash you have, and do nothing else except sell if you can get a good price.

[scubascuba3]

56 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Why?

 

Sit back for a while and get the same place for 1 million.  

 

What makes you think Pattaya will be a preferred place to holiday, or reside, in the future?  

the only way a 3m condo will go for 1m is if they stop retirement visas

[how241]

38 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Right now, it's a good time to sit on whatever cash you have, and do nothing else except sell if you can get a good price.

Maybe---it is impossible to pick the bottom or top. As long as your close  you will come out fine in the end. 

[newnative]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

It's a maths equation.

 

Each individual vote is equal, however, foreigners, being in the forced minority of 49%, actually makes their vote slightly unequal. 

 

Interesting for when a developer has stacked the 51% with family, just to get around the law, which means a foreigner's vote is worthless. 

       A couple points.  Foreigners can buy condos in company name so you could have a condo project with more foreign and company owners than Thai owners.  I think my current condo probably has more foreign and company owners than Thai owners.  Your post implies an us vs. them dynamic with foreign and Thai owners, with Thai owners having the upper hand.

     However, in my experience, it has been more the case that Thai and foreign owners often unite to deal with problems with management and how the condo is being run and maintained.  So, it can be more a case of owners vs. management.  Both Thai and foreign owners have in common a large investment they have made and want to protect so they are not always working at cross purposes.  

      I would strongly disagree that a foreign owner's vote is 'worthless' under any scenario.  And, by the way, if a developer has managed to hold on to 51% of the vote, (something I have only rarely seen and mostly with new projects with unsold units) then both the foreign owner and Thai owner remaining votes would only add up to 49%.  So, with your logic, Thai and foreign: equally 'worthless'.  In any case, a foreign owner's vote would certainly not be worthless in regard to selling the condo project to a developer, one of the original talking points. 

     

[newnative]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

Yes, having a majority say on a whole condo block, whilst only having to own 51% of the block, is not worthwhile at all.  ????

     In most cases, a developer is in the business of building a condo project, selling the units, and moving on to the next project.  The developer makes money when he sells a unit, not when he holds on to it and has to pay condo maintenance fees on it.  Once the developer sells a unit, he no longer has that share to vote.  In order to maintain 51% of the vote, he would have to not sell 51% of a condo project.  Doubt that happens unless the developer has been unable to find buyers for his condo project.   

[Airalee]

18 minutes ago, newnative said:

       A couple points.  Foreigners can buy condos in company name so you could have a condo project with more foreign and company owners than Thai owners.  I think my current condo probably has more foreign and company owners than Thai owners.  Your post implies an us vs. them dynamic with foreign and Thai owners, with Thai owners having the upper hand.

     However, in my experience, it has been more the case that Thai and foreign owners often unite to deal with problems with management and how the condo is being run and maintained.  So, it can be more a case of owners vs. management.  Both Thai and foreign owners have in common a large investment they have made and want to protect so they are not always working at cross purposes.  

      I would strongly disagree that a foreign owner's vote is 'worthless' under any scenario.  And, by the way, if a developer has managed to hold on to 51% of the vote, (something I have only rarely seen and mostly with new projects with unsold units) then both the foreign owner and Thai owner remaining votes would only add up to 49%.  So, with your logic, Thai and foreign: equally 'worthless'.  In any case, a foreign owner's vote would certainly not be worthless in regard to selling the condo project to a developer, one of the original talking points. 

     

Ok...take this post for what it’s worth and understand that you are one of the few owners whos input I respect.  
 

My landlord owns something like 8% of my building and hence, 8% of the voting rights.  He recently showed me the annual votes on various issues one being if there was agreement with the “accounting” and other issues.  He voted no across the board for a number of issues yet he showed me where the vote showed that 98.5% were cast as “yes” votes.  Obviously, something stinks.  How does one avoid these situations?

 

[newnative]

1 minute ago, Airalee said:

Ok...take this post for what it’s worth and understand that you are one of the few owners whos input I respect.  
 

My landlord owns something like 8% of my building and hence, 8% of the voting rights.  He recently showed me the annual votes on various issues one being if there was agreement with the “accounting” and other issues.  He voted no across the board for a number of issues yet he showed me where the vote showed that 98.5% were cast as “yes” votes.  Obviously, something stinks.  How does one avoid these situations?

 

    Sometimes these situations are hard to avoid--even if you have done your homework and have bought into what you thought was a well-managed project.  Hard to tell much with the information you gave but 98.5% yes on anything seems high for condo votes--unless, perhaps, it is a very small project with most owners knowing each other well.  I would suggest he take his concerns to the Juristic and try to get an explanation--and there might be an acceptable explanation.  He should also try to get elected to the condo board if he has concerns regarding how the condo is being run.  At the next AGM, if he has not yet received a satisfactory answer, he should bring the issue up and ask for an explanation then.  

[Airalee]

3 minutes ago, newnative said:

    Sometimes these situations are hard to avoid--even if you have done your homework and have bought into what you thought was a well-managed project.  Hard to tell much with the information you gave but 98.5% yes on anything seems high for condo votes--unless, perhaps, it is a very small project with most owners knowing each other well.  I would suggest he take his concerns to the Juristic and try to get an explanation--and there might be an acceptable explanation.  He should also try to get elected to the condo board if he has concerns regarding how the condo is being run.  At the next AGM, if he has not yet received a satisfactory answer, he should bring the issue up and ask for an explanation then.  

It’s a 300+ unit hi-rise.  I think he has already worn out his welcome at the Juristic with complaints.  I asked him about getting on the board but he has pretty much told me that it would be useless and just accepts that’s the way things run here.  He only showed me to point out the BS he has to deal with.  I feel sorry for the guy.

[newnative]

5 minutes ago, Airalee said:

It’s a 300+ unit hi-rise.  I think he has already worn out his welcome at the Juristic with complaints.  I asked him about getting on the board but he has pretty much told me that it would be useless and just accepts that’s the way things run here.  He only showed me to point out the BS he has to deal with.  I feel sorry for the guy.

     If things are, indeed, bad with the project, he should be able to get some support from other owners who should also be unhappy.  He might consider starting a Line group with as many other owners as he can sign up. Getting organized is half the battle.  My partner and I started a Line group at one of the condos we owned and it helped some to get management to listen to our concerns--and it was an easy way to share information/issues among the owners.  It's up to your friend as to whether he wants to spend his time trying to change things or accept things as they are.  I think many owners choose the latter path as long as the elevators run, the building is reasonably maintained, and the pool is clean. 

[Airalee]

1 minute ago, newnative said:

     If things are, indeed, bad with the project, he should be able to get some support from other owners who should also be unhappy.  He might consider starting a Line group with as many other owners as he can sign up. Getting organized is half the battle.  My partner and I started a Line group at one of the condos we owned and it helped some to get management to listen to our concerns--and it was an easy way to share information/issues among the owners.  It's up to your friend as to whether he wants to spend his time trying to change things or accept things as they are.  I think many owners choose the latter path as long as the elevators run, the building is reasonably maintained, and the pool is clean. 

He’s chosen the latter path from what I can tell...although the building is in great shape due to his vigilance at making sure projects are done right.  He watches over them as if it was his own house.

[newnative]

46 minutes ago, Susco said:

Stop feeding the troll

   Oh, dear.  And, here I thought he was genuinely ignorant and hungry for knowledge. 

[jacko45k]

14 hours ago, Leaver said:

Each individual vote is equal, however, foreigners, being in the forced minority of 49%, actually makes their vote slightly unequal. 

I expect there is actually no restriction on a Thai owning condos which are in the 49% foreign allocation, if they are prepared to pay the elevated price. If he sees it as a good capital gain investment or income opportunity why not. 

When it comes to a vote, it would surely be easier to round up all the Thai owners than foreigners who are spread all over the globe. 

[newnative]

30 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

I expect there is actually no restriction on a Thai owning condos which are in the 49% foreign allocation, if they are prepared to pay the elevated price. If he sees it as a good capital gain investment or income opportunity why not. 

When it comes to a vote, it would surely be easier to round up all the Thai owners than foreigners who are spread all over the globe. 

     The only 'restriction' on sales is the foreign quota.  But, if the foreign quota is filled, a foreigner could still buy a condo in the project in company name or Thai name if he or she has a Thai spouse.

     In regard to being able to 'round up' voters, I would say it all depends on the condo project.  One of the Pattaya condos my spouse and I own is in a small project of 38 units.  At the last AGM, there were actually more foreigner owners in attendance than Thais.  Many of the Thai owners live in Bangkok and could not be rounded up.  The foreign owners were here for the winter and easy to round up. 

      We also own a condo in a larger project of around 500 units in Bangkok that has a high percentage of Thai owners.  At this year's AGM it was a struggle to round up enough of the Thai owners to get a quorum to open the meeting.  My spouse and I were given 3 proxies each of Thai owners who could not attend the meeting. None had voted in advance for any of the agenda items so I voted my preferences.  Here's at least one case where the foreign owner's vote had more weight, not less.  

[jacko45k]

5 minutes ago, newnative said:

The only 'restriction' on sales is the foreign quota.

But the foreign quota is not restricted from Thai ownership surely if they wish to pay the price?

[newnative]

2 hours ago, jacko45k said:

But the foreign quota is not restricted from Thai ownership surely if they wish to pay the price?

Asked and answered already.  

[BigStar]

17 hours ago, newnative said:

18 hours ago, Susco said:

Stop feeding the troll

   Oh, dear.  And, here I thought he was genuinely ignorant and hungry for knowledge

???? Keep up the good work against the troll, helps stem the tide of ignorance. Though the validity of your points won't be acknowledged, at least there'll be a correction in the forum to be referenced the next time the same pot is stirred.

[Leaver]

21 hours ago, how241 said:

OK,  but what exactly will you want to do with this control that is it worth tieing up all that money ??    Why would you be so afraid that a farang wouldn't also vote for the same changes you want to make ??

It's called "majority CONTROL."

 

Just the same as a listed company with a majority shareholder, they get to control the company and everyone else is along for the ride. 

 

You would basically have no control over the destiny of your own condo block. 

 

You could be happy in your condo, but a big developer may want the land to build a 50 story block of condo's, and makes an offer the majority holder can't refuse.  The 49% of farang ownership would soon be left looking for a new condo to live in.

[how241]

2 minutes ago, Leaver said:

It's called "majority CONTROL."

 

Just the same as a listed company with a majority shareholder, they get to control the company and everyone else is along for the ride. 

 

You would basically have no control over the destiny of your own condo block. 

 

You could be happy in your condo, but a big developer may want the land to build a 50 story block of condo's, and makes an offer the majority holder can't refuse.  The 49% of farang ownership would soon be left looking for a new condo to live in.

Maybe theoretically possible,  But I have NEVER heard of anything like that happening in Thailand.  You worry too much.