Bike Breakdown.

[NoshowJones]

Riding my five year old Honda Forza with 36000 plus Ks on the clock, at about 55KPH my bike went over a very small ridge on the road

no worse than any bikes do from time to time, and the engine cut out, although the engine turned over, it would not start, so it is now

60 Ks away at a Honda agent to get fixed.

Why should that happen to a well maintained bike, always serviced on time, and very rarely ridden at over 60 KPH, anyone any idea how that

could happen?

[Moonlover]

Probably a loose electrical connection somewhere. Many connections do not come under scrutiny even on well maintained vehicles. 

[Aussiepeter]

My bet too - electrical. I only know old Hondas, which all needed spark to run. Does this model have a spark plug ? Broken spark lead would be my first look. I've had a Honda Dream turn over but not start - busted lead. Guess the mechanic will solve it !

[Agusts]

Can speculate a lot of things,  maybe fuel problem, fuel pump etc. , who knows, but please do let us know what it was when fixed..., very useful for a fellow old model Forza owner like myself...

 

Although I was at Honda for an easy clutch shoe clean up couple of days ago, total useless mechanics, those monkeys can't find their ass to wipe it, let alone find a fault on a bike, they probably keep changing everything one by one until it starts....!!! 

Edited February 26, 2020 by Agusts

[canthai55]

39 minutes ago, Aussiepeter said:

Does this model have a spark plug ?

555

[Farangwithaplan]

51 minutes ago, Agusts said:

 

 those monkeys can't find their ass to wipe it,

The smell from their poor personal hygiene must be atrocious.

 

Do these bike have a tip over sensor or a side stand sensor?

[Agusts]

15 minutes ago, Farangwithaplan said:

 

 

Do these bike have a tip over sensor or a side stand sensor?

Side stand sensor for sure but not tip over, as far as I know...

 

I was thinking about that too, but when the side stand is down, you get no engine turning over, no power to the starter, so can't be that one,  or the one on brake handles,  OP says engine is turning but not starts...

[canthai55]

Most all FI vehicles have a tip over sensor so the pump quits when you flip or crash.

My CRF has one - ask me how I know !!! 555

[Farangwithaplan]

48 minutes ago, Agusts said:

Side stand sensor for sure but not tip over, as far as I know...

 

I was thinking about that too, but when the side stand is down, you get no engine turning over, no power to the starter, so can't be that one,  or the one on brake handles,  OP says engine is turning but not starts...

Yep, I agree with you. Forgot or misread the turning over bit. Thanks.

[dddave]

Slow onset of problem usually is fuel related.  Sudden onset of problem usually electrical.  Old axiom of motor vehicle repair that usually holds true.

[NoshowJones]

2 hours ago, Agusts said:

Can speculate a lot of things,  maybe fuel problem, fuel pump etc. , who knows, but please do let us know what it was when fixed..., very useful for a fellow old model Forza owner like myself...

 

Although I was at Honda for an easy clutch shoe clean up couple of days ago, total useless mechanics, those monkeys can't find their ass to wipe it, let alone find a fault on a bike, they probably keep changing everything one by one until it starts....!!! 

There is a list of things, I will get them changed to English and come back on, but there is one obvious red flag with this Honda dealer. At 12000+ Ks, I had to change the battery at a cost of 4000+ Bt, now four years later, this time they want 7000+Bt, like I said a red flag.

[NoshowJones]

1 hour ago, canthai55 said:

555

Don't know.

[NoshowJones]

2 hours ago, Agusts said:

Can speculate a lot of things,  maybe fuel problem, fuel pump etc. , who knows, but please do let us know what it was when fixed..., very useful for a fellow old model Forza owner like myself...

 

Although I was at Honda for an easy clutch shoe clean up couple of days ago, total useless mechanics, those monkeys can't find their ass to wipe it, let alone find a fault on a bike, they probably keep changing everything one by one until it starts....!!! 

I will let you know.

[eisfeld]

11 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

At 12000+ Ks, I had to change the battery at a cost of 4000+ Bt, now four years later, this time they want 7000+Bt, like I said a red flag.

Impressive. Even Ducati quoted me roughly 4k THB for a battery and they go online for a few hundred less. Honda Bigwing though also quoted me a much higher price (from their official price list, not a scam). I think it was just under 6k or some such. Honda Thailand is probably trying to squeeze profits out of these parts.

 

And the bike dealers don't charge the batteries for a few hours before installing them. Spraying the contacts with anti-corosion spray is also a rare occurance.

[Agusts]

Oouch,  that is expensive,  for a Honda Forza, I bet you can get a similar, cheaper one online,  but have to wait to arrive...

 

This is just a quick search, 1100baht +104 delivery:

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/bigbike-bigbike-rr-jtz12s-12v-112ah-er6n-ninja650-2013-forza300-i294616895-s496254061.html

 

And why would they ask for a battery change if your engine turns over fine - can't find the fault, so change everything you can possibly think of mentality...!!! 

Edited February 26, 2020 by Agusts

[eisfeld]

27 minutes ago, Agusts said:

And why would they ask for a battery change if your engine turns over fine - can't find the fault, so change everything you can possibly think of mentality...!!! 

To be fair he didn't say they asked him to change the battery. Maybe he just knows his current one wont make it much longer and wanted to take the opportunity to replace it if the bike is already in the shop anyways. At 4 years lifetime it's safe to assume that it is coming to an end of its lifetime.

Edited February 26, 2020 by eisfeld

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, possum1931 said:

Don't know.

No and nor do I , get it to a workshop,  as said could be many things, even a spark plug. 

 

Edited February 26, 2020 by Kwasaki

[NoshowJones]

18 hours ago, eisfeld said:

Impressive. Even Ducati quoted me roughly 4k THB for a battery and they go online for a few hundred less. Honda Bigwing though also quoted me a much higher price (from their official price list, not a scam). I think it was just under 6k or some such. Honda Thailand is probably trying to squeeze profits out of these parts.

 

And the bike dealers don't charge the batteries for a few hours before installing them. Spraying the contacts with anti-corosion spray is also a rare occurance.

The Honda agent says he gets his spares from Bangkok so had charged 7000 Bt after my wife complained, the agent phoned her and said he would get one locally for 4000Bt.

[NoshowJones]

18 hours ago, eisfeld said:

To be fair he didn't say they asked him to change the battery. Maybe he just knows his current one wont make it much longer and wanted to take the opportunity to replace it if the bike is already in the shop anyways. At 4 years lifetime it's safe to assume that it is coming to an end of its lifetime.

Yes, the battery has done about 25000 Ks.

[NoshowJones]

19 hours ago, possum1931 said:

There is a list of things, I will get them changed to English and come back on, but there is one obvious red flag with this Honda dealer. At 12000+ Ks, I had to change the battery at a cost of 4000+ Bt, now four years later, this time they want 7000+Bt, like I said a red flag.

The fault had something to do with the oil, various things have to be changed, like the oil pump etc.

[NoshowJones]

21 hours ago, Agusts said:

Can speculate a lot of things,  maybe fuel problem, fuel pump etc. , who knows, but please do let us know what it was when fixed..., very useful for a fellow old model Forza owner like myself...

 

Although I was at Honda for an easy clutch shoe clean up couple of days ago, total useless mechanics, those monkeys can't find their ass to wipe it, let alone find a fault on a bike, they probably keep changing everything one by one until it starts....!!! 

What has really upset me about this is that the bike has never missed a service, was always running very well, no sign that anything could be wrong, then without any warning, the engine just stopped.

There is only 37000 Ks on the clock over 5 years, I always thought that especially with Honda, a well serviced bike would go on and on for a lot more than 37000 Ks.

You were right though, it was a fuel problem, and the oil pump etc has to get replaced.

Edited February 27, 2020 by possum1931

[papa al]

Bad fuel?

Woulda guessed something mechanical.

Honda reliability.?

A Forza is not a Wave.

[ben2talk]

Certainly I'd say it's very bad for any bike to cut out after going over a 'very small ridge' at 55kph - so to say it's 'no worse than any bikes do' is strange. I can't say that NO bike ever did that to me after 30 years riding and millions of kilometers... but when it did the answer was very obvious - with an older GSX-R750, poor battery connection after a repair at a dodgy bike shop - visiting a local shop near where I worked, they actually wedged the cable into the battery (where it should be bolted on) so that it cut out as soon as I went over a bump.

 

The next thing to be aware of is the massive change in prices for just about anything when you cross the 150cc barrier... for anything from oil change, filters, whatever - small bikes are stupid cheap and anything over that gets pretty stupid expensive. 4000 for a battery is ridiculous - they must have seen you coming.

 

Remember that 'Honda Thailand' is nothing like 'Honda' in any other country in the world - there's a huge difference with Cars and Bikes here - where even official dealerships for bikes are very poor shadow of the company. It's all for show.

 

Sadly I'm sure a Forza would be a real pain to work on, but I'd be tracing the loom and looking for possible areas where the cable can make contact with the frame and ground the system (became an issue with my first GSX-R when it was 10 years old) and any other possibly dirty/dodgy connections.

Edited February 27, 2020 by ben2talk

[Agusts]

I can't be sure to be honest , I can't believe oil pump could be at fault in the scenario OP explained, if it's the fuel pump, that makes sense...!

 

Again, not sure exact date of manufacture,  but Honda Forza had a huge recall worldwide regarding fuel pump back in 2014/2015 for exactly the same issue, engine cut out suddenly,  and diagnosed as to be serious and dangerous to the rider, hence the recall, and free replacement. So who knows it could have been that...

 

OP what was the total Honda bill...!?

 

As for battery, I doubt Honda build their own battery from scratch, just buy from other (Chinese) manufacturers and stick their Honda label on it - okay, hopefully test it a bit, or not.... ! But I just buy any battery for bikes/cars, I had good and bad experience with cheap and expensive batteries, so to me there is no guarantee you get more years as you pay more for batteries, so I buy middle/average range. Also batteries tend to give a clue before they go bad, watch out for the clue, usually the start becomes a little hard and with delay, then time to change... 

 

[BritManToo]

15 minutes ago, Agusts said:

I can't believe oil pump could be at fault in the scenario OP explained

Sounds unlikely.

Sudden and immediate mysterious faults are always electrical.

Mechanical faults either appear slowly, or after a loud bang and a cloud of smoke.

 

Edited February 27, 2020 by BritManToo

[Farangwithaplan]

Big wing Rama 5 charged me about 1800 baht installed for a cb500 battery not too long ago.

Edited February 27, 2020 by Farangwithaplan
Typo

[billd766]

On 2/26/2020 at 12:45 PM, possum1931 said:

There is a list of things, I will get them changed to English and come back on, but there is one obvious red flag with this Honda dealer. At 12000+ Ks, I had to change the battery at a cost of 4000+ Bt, now four years later, this time they want 7000+Bt, like I said a red flag.

Hesu Kristos on a motorbike.

 

It seems to me that they are extracting the urine. I have had a Yamaha Fino, Honda Click 125, Honda Phantom 200, Yamaha 550 and I usually go to the tractor spares shop in the village and buy Yuasa batteries and the most I have paid is about 900 baht.

 

The main difference is that the batteries did not have the Yamaha or Honda logo on the battery.

[billd766]

14 hours ago, possum1931 said:

The fault had something to do with the oil, various things have to be changed, like the oil pump etc.

Rubbish. They are having you on.

 

It is an electrical problem. If the engine turns but won't lite up it can be an electrical problem. Buy a new spark plug and put it next to the metal engine. If it sparks then the electrics are OK.

 

That would leave you a fuel starvation problem. I had a Yamaha 550 fuel problem which was caused by the fuel pipe coming off the fuel tap. I had to call the Honda guys out from Klong Lan, 6 km away and they found that problem in 5 minutes and fixed it in 2 more minutes.

[guzzi850m2]

It could be a dirty fuel tank, going over the ridge and some of it ended in the fuel pump.

 

Don't know if it has a filter fitted somewhere?

[NoshowJones]

On 2/28/2020 at 9:07 AM, guzzi850m2 said:

It could be a dirty fuel tank, going over the ridge and some of it ended in the fuel pump.

 

Don't know if it has a filter fitted somewhere?

Maybe you have got it. When I got my bike taken to the Honda garage, my fuel gauge was reading almost full, although the fuel gauge still registered almost full, it would really be about half full, when I picked the bike up yesterday, it registered empty. I went back in to the garage to tell them, they phoned my wife, and told her the fuel was smelly and they had to drain it, that might explain what you said about the fuel pump.

May I point out that no one in the garage can speak English, but there was no excuse for giving me the bike back with no fuel.