Britain tells the EU: we shall not sell out our fishermen

[Logosone]

48 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Shell reveals it paid no UK corporate income tax in 2018

https://www.ft.com/content/933fe2b8-20ee-11ea-92da-f0c92e957a96

 

Yes, because of all the tax incentives the UK government gave Shell. What does that tell you? The UK was desperate to have oil companies like Shell in the UK, even just for income tax and other ancillary benefits.

 

The UK's bet on the oil sector will now come home to roost in disastrous fashion as the UK with the second largest oil sector in the EU, after Norway, but without a sovereign wealth fund that owns 2% of all the world's top shares to cushion the fall, will feel the true impact of the biggest oil crisis in 25 years.

 

Again your leaders let you down. You will pay the price for all the economic mistakes your leaders made. There is no escaping this. In the end the bill always comes.

Edited March 11, 2020 by Logosone

[Logosone]

13 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

This forecast for nearly all EU countries so who is in charge of them. Coupled with a Coronavirus economic downfall it would seem that everyone is in for a bumpy ride, so lets not be melodramatic and blame the government that was voted in democratically by the people of the UK. Many coming from the Labour heartlands.

 

It is not just the current UK government, you are right, also the previous governments have made bad economic mistakes.

 

Why did Thatcher close all the big industrial powerhouses and take a gamble on 'Knowledge industries'. That paid off well, didn't it, UK manufacturing base now down to 20% of the overall economy and falling.

 

Why did Blair not start a sovereign wealth fund of the size of Norway's fund, which will now protect Norway from the massive outfall of oil sector meltdown?

 

Why did Cameron offer a Brexit vote and thus lead to an exodus of 1.7 trillion GBP worth of assets out of the City (so far)?

 

But the current UK government is particularly in danger of making economic mistakes, firstly because it is ideologically stuck in Little Englander country and does not understand that the closer it wants access to the EU markets, the closer it will have to follow EU rules. What's more the economic challenges that are about to come are far too great for failed journalists like Boris and Gove.

 

I'm afraid the UK has distinguished itself by making more economic policy mistakes than any other country in the developed EU.

 

For Germany falling oil prices will actually be greatly beneficial once coronavirus disappears, as Germany is a producing country and the cheap oil will help Germany and China. Once China is back this will again help Germany. But the UK, well, you're 80% services. And you have the second largest oil sector in Europe. Germany does not. Germany's bet on renewable and green energy, all those windmills and such turned out to be a smart move after all. Goodbye oil, hello sustainable energy. Goodbye UK economy, it was nice to help you while we could. But you messed it up.

Edited March 11, 2020 by Logosone

[melvinmelvin]

2 hours ago, Logosone said:

Oh it will.

 

Every party outstays its welcome, every successful Tory run has always come to an end. The electorate eventually grows tired and wants to give the other party a chance. 

 

With the economic problems that the Brexiters will face they will be totally overcome. The UK has the second largest oil sector, after Norway, in Europe. The oil sector accounts for 28% of total corporation tax in the UK. 

 

Oil supports 450,000 jobs in the UK. That's more than TWENTY times more than fishing.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_and_gas_industry_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

With the Americans having dumped cheap oil on the market for years now and the Saudis and Russians fighting for market share with low prices, the price of oil should stay low for a very long time.

 

The economic news can't get much worse for the UK basically.

 

And who will be in charge when the economic depression happens? The Tories. People have a memory. Theywill remember the good times when the UK was in the EU. The Labour party will realise campaigning on a join EU platform will be the ticket to get back into power. Everyone knows half the country wants back in.

 

It will get traction.

 

 

well,

you take it for granted that in leaving EU behind (if UK will - remains to be seen) UK will experience

severe economic hardships

maybe she will maybe she will not - remains to be seen

 

I think it would be wise and prudent to offer room for the possibility that UK will prosper,

may not happen but might happen

 

kinda childish to predict doom and dungeons for something unprecedented you know zilch about

 

[Logosone]

3 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

well,

you take it for granted that in leaving EU behind (if UK will - remains to be seen) UK will experience

severe economic hardships

maybe she will maybe she will not - remains to be seen

 

I think it would be wise and prudent to offer room for the possibility that UK will prosper,

may not happen but might happen

 

kinda childish to predict doom and dungeons for something unprecedented you know zilch about

 

Except that's not the basis for predicting the UK will have major economic difficulties. Rather one need only look at the economy of the UK as a whole. One of the most indebted in the world, giant trade deficit, manufacturing base shrinking every year and now down to 20% of the economy, second largest oil sector in the EU and oil prices set to languish in lower ends for years to come when hundreds of thousands of jobs in the UK depend on the oil and gas sector, 1.7 trillion of assets leaving the city, more yet to leave....

 

I mean these are all facts. It is a question of looking at the UK economy as a whole and its dismal performance as a whole over the long term.

 

When you then add in that the UK and EU are on a path of less co-operation rather than more, less access to EU markets rather than more, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that the UK economy will continue its downward slide.

 

We know quite a bit about the dependence of UK fishermen on EU marktes, and also the dependence of many other UK industries on EU markets, prime among them the financial sector.

 

The chances of the UK economy 'prospering' are zero. It's just a question of how bad will the decline be, how fast will it progress.

 

It's kinda childish to close your eyes to reality.

Edited March 11, 2020 by Logosone

[transam]

2 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Except that's not the basis for predicting the UK will have major economic difficulties. Rather one need only look at the economy of the UK as a whole. One of the most indebted in the world, giant trade deficit, manufacturing base shrinking every year and now down to 20% of the economy, second largest oil sector in the EU and oil prices set to languish in lower ends for years to come when hundreds of thousands of jobs in the UK depend on the oil and gas sector, 1.7 trillion of assets leaving the city, more yet to leave....

 

I mean these are all facts. It is a question of looking at the UK economy as a whole and its dismal performance as a whole over the long term.

 

When you then add in that the UK and EU are on a path of less co-operation rather than more, less access to EU markets rather than more, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that the UK economy will continue its downward slide.

 

We know quite a bit about the dependence of UK fishermen on EU marktes, and also the dependence of many other UK industries on EU markets, prime among them the financial sector.

 

The chances of the UK economy 'prospering' are zero. It's just a question of bad will the decline be, how fast will it progress.

 

It's kinda childish to close your eyes to reality.

"Childish", do you ever think about what you are writing....?  ????

 

Do you know what "narcissistic" means, if not, look it up...... 

[Logosone]

And the sad thing is it need not have ended like this. The UK started with industrialisation, it had a head start.

 

As late as the previous decade the UK had a gigantic oil windfall and could have started a sovereign wealth fund like Norway. 

 

"Have we not had oil flowing ashore from the North Sea for more than 30 years? So why isn’t Britain throwing her sovereign-wealth weight around like the sheikhs do? OK, Abu Dhabi has a higher ratio of oil barrels to citizens than we do, enabling the tiny gulf state to stash $1 million per head; but how come the Norwegians, who in most respects are quite like us, have managed to set aside a 2 trillion kroner (£200 billion) national pension fund out of their North Sea bounty, when all we’ve done is let Gordon Brown run up a colossal overdraft? Well, there’s a terribly simple answer. We could have been not just a contender but a seriously big player in this sovereign-wealth game. But like Colleen McLoughlin on a New York shopping trip, we blew the lot, the whole caboodle.

 

Extending Hawksworth’s idea, we might also lob in to the pot £70 billion or so of privatisation proceeds since 1979, and the £22 billion windfall Gordon Brown collected from the auction of 3G mobile phone licences. If we’d kept it all and managed it well, we’d now be richer than Abu Dhabi, with a fund worth more than $1 trillion. Even if we’d only kept half of it, we’d be kicking sand in the faces of Norway and Kuwait.

 

But as Hawksworth points out, we didn’t actually keep any of it — and nor does it show up in the form of increases in public sector net investment, which is lower as a percentage of GDP today than it was in 1978-79. Instead, both Conservative and Labour governments used the extra cash to keep non-oil taxes ‘lower than would otherwise have been possible without rising debt levels or sharp cuts in public spending relative to GDP’. If we had wanted to build up a sovereign savings account — to follow the Norwegian model and fund state pensions, say — we would have had to pay substantially more tax these past 30 years, or accept reduced public services. As it is, Britain’s sovereign wealth was effectively distributed to taxpayers to spend or save as they chose, and in very many cases that means it ended up in bricks and mortar, in Britain’s absurdly overpriced residential property market.

 

But it’s too late now: the end of North Sea oil is nigh, we’ve privatised everything, the pensions bill is mounting, the habit of personal saving has been all but lost, the housing market is tottering and the government’s finances are hopelessly adrift. We’re on a course set for us a generation ago; in a generation’s time, as John Hawksworth says, we’ll look enviously at Norway and the Gulf and wonder: where did our oil money go?"

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-hasn-t-britain-got-a-sovereign-wealth-fund-

 

So there you have it, the British leaders squandered the family silver. Just for a chance to stay in power and give the electorate lower taxes. They made the wrong decisions.

 

Britain got it wrong.

Edited March 11, 2020 by Logosone

[evadgib]

5 hours ago, Logosone said:

Keir Starmer declines to rule out campaigning to rejoin EU.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/mar/08/keir-starmer-declines-to-rule-out-campaigning-to-rejoin-eu

 

If they're still banging this drum Boris can expect to be in office longer than Putin ????

[Logosone]

5 minutes ago, evadgib said:

If they're still banging this drum Boris can expect to be in office longer than Putin ????

 

Boris may well be in office for a long time. Good for him. Not so good for the UK economy.

 

Inevitably the electorate is exhausted now from Brexit politics. However, after Boris has had his run, when it becomes clear that the UK economy is doing worse than whilst in the EU people will hand the Tories the bill for their broken promises. When it becomes clear that Brexit will not ring in a golden age of economic prosperity, but on the contrary a time of even greater economic decline and hardship you can't blame the British electorate for looking to Labour, who will campaign on a platform of re-joining the EU. Because they know half of the electorate wanted to be in Europe at the time of the last Brexit referendum, and  after years of economic decline there will be excellent chance the number of people who want to rejoin outnumber the Brexiters.

 

So Labour will offer the option to rejoin Europe and at some point, eventually, they will get in.

[transam]

10 minutes ago, Logosone said:

And the sad thing is it need not have ended like this. The UK started with industrialisation, it had a head start.

 

As late as the previous decade the UK had a gigantic oil windfall and could have started a sovereign wealth fund like Norway. 

 

"Have we not had oil flowing ashore from the North Sea for more than 30 years? So why isn’t Britain throwing her sovereign-wealth weight around like the sheikhs do? OK, Abu Dhabi has a higher ratio of oil barrels to citizens than we do, enabling the tiny gulf state to stash $1 million per head; but how come the Norwegians, who in most respects are quite like us, have managed to set aside a 2 trillion kroner (£200 billion) national pension fund out of their North Sea bounty, when all we’ve done is let Gordon Brown run up a colossal overdraft? Well, there’s a terribly simple answer. We could have been not just a contender but a seriously big player in this sovereign-wealth game. But like Colleen McLoughlin on a New York shopping trip, we blew the lot, the whole caboodle.

 

Extending Hawksworth’s idea, we might also lob in to the pot £70 billion or so of privatisation proceeds since 1979, and the £22 billion windfall Gordon Brown collected from the auction of 3G mobile phone licences. If we’d kept it all and managed it well, we’d now be richer than Abu Dhabi, with a fund worth more than $1 trillion. Even if we’d only kept half of it, we’d be kicking sand in the faces of Norway and Kuwait.

 

But as Hawksworth points out, we didn’t actually keep any of it — and nor does it show up in the form of increases in public sector net investment, which is lower as a percentage of GDP today than it was in 1978-79. Instead, both Conservative and Labour governments used the extra cash to keep non-oil taxes ‘lower than would otherwise have been possible without rising debt levels or sharp cuts in public spending relative to GDP’. If we had wanted to build up a sovereign savings account — to follow the Norwegian model and fund state pensions, say — we would have had to pay substantially more tax these past 30 years, or accept reduced public services. As it is, Britain’s sovereign wealth was effectively distributed to taxpayers to spend or save as they chose, and in very many cases that means it ended up in bricks and mortar, in Britain’s absurdly overpriced residential property market.

 

But it’s too late now: the end of North Sea oil is nigh, we’ve privatised everything, the pensions bill is mounting, the habit of personal saving has been all but lost, the housing market is tottering and the government’s finances are hopelessly adrift. We’re on a course set for us a generation ago; in a generation’s time, as John Hawksworth says, we’ll look enviously at Norway and the Gulf and wonder: where did our oil money go?"

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-hasn-t-britain-got-a-sovereign-wealth-fund-

 

So there you have it, the British leaders squandered the family silver. Just for a chance to stay in power and give the electorate lower taxes. They made the wrong decisions.

 

Britain got it wrong.

I reckon you are on a wind up.....????

[TheDark]

11 minutes ago, evadgib said:

If they're still banging this drum Boris can expect to be in office longer than Putin ????

British people and opposition are not so suppressed as those are in Russia. Well, opposition has been, but it is about to wake up once Corbyn is gone. 

[vinny41]

13 minutes ago, Logosone said:

 

Boris may well be in office for a long time. Good for him. Not so good for the UK economy.

 

Inevitably the electorate is exhausted now from Brexit politics. However, after Boris has had his run, when it becomes clear that the UK economy is doing worse than whilst in the EU people will hand the Tories the bill for their broken promises. When it becomes clear that Brexit will not ring in a golden age of economic prosperity, but on the contrary a time of even greater economic decline and hardship you can't blame the British electorate for looking to Labour, who will campaign on a platform of re-joining the EU. Because they know half of the electorate wanted to be in Europe at the time of the last Brexit referendum, and  after years of economic decline there will be excellent chance the number of people who want to rejoin outnumber the Brexiters.

 

So Labour will offer the option to rejoin Europe and at some point, eventually, they will get in.

Before there any chance of the UK rejoining the EU , the UK will be subject to the EU Accession procedure

Do you have any idea of how many Billions of Euros the EU has wasted on Turkey accession to the EU over the past 30 years

Hopefully the EU members have got very deep pockets and willing to splash the cash as the UK will need Billions and Billions or Euros

[david555]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2020/mar/11/financial-markets-coronavirus-fears-bank-of-england-slashes-interest-rates-business-live

[sanemax]

6 hours ago, Logosone said:

 

It is not just the current UK government, you are right, also the previous governments have made bad economic mistakes.

 

Why did Thatcher close all the big industrial powerhouses and take a gamble on 'Knowledge industries'. That paid off well, didn't it, UK manufacturing base now down to 20% of the overall economy and falling.

 

Why did Blair not start a sovereign wealth fund of the size of Norway's fund, which will now protect Norway from the massive outfall of oil sector meltdown?

 

Why did Cameron offer a Brexit vote and thus lead to an exodus of 1.7 trillion GBP worth of assets out of the City (so far)?

 

But the current UK government is particularly in danger of making economic mistakes, firstly because it is ideologically stuck in Little Englander country and does not understand that the closer it wants access to the EU markets, the closer it will have to follow EU rules. What's more the economic challenges that are about to come are far too great for failed journalists like Boris and Gove.

 

I'm afraid the UK has distinguished itself by making more economic policy mistakes than any other country in the developed EU.

 

For Germany falling oil prices will actually be greatly beneficial once coronavirus disappears, as Germany is a producing country and the cheap oil will help Germany and China. Once China is back this will again help Germany. But the UK, well, you're 80% services. And you have the second largest oil sector in Europe. Germany does not. Germany's bet on renewable and green energy, all those windmills and such turned out to be a smart move after all. Goodbye oil, hello sustainable energy. Goodbye UK economy, it was nice to help you while we could. But you messed it up.

Please, can we rejoin the EU, PLEASE

We are all so sorry for leaving and we really want to come back

Please forgive us, we didnt know what we were doing .

All the old people who voted Brexit and will all soon be dead from corona 

And there will be just young remainers left .

Please let us back in again , we dont mind paying extra this time and we wont want a rebate .

 So sorry, please lets us in again 

[Logosone]

1 hour ago, transam said:

I reckon you are on a wind up.....????

 

Not at all, the prophetic words  of Martin Vander Weyer from the Spectator, not mine.

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-hasn-t-britain-got-a-sovereign-wealth-fund-

 

The far sighted author from the Spectator predicted over ten years ago where the UK would be headed. His words have come true tenfold.

 

Now the interesting question is how could it come to this? The UK after all had a head-start in industrialisation. It exploited countless countries' resources and had exclusive access to their markets and raw materials. How could the UK end up from number 1 economy in the world to....well... being outproduced by Italy and India?

 

The UK's share of manufacturing output had risen from 9.5% in 1830 during the Industrial Revolution to 22.9% in the 1870s. It fell to 13.6% by 1913, 10.7% by 1938, 4.9% by 1973 and 2% by 2015.

 

There were a number of reasons for this decline. The second economic revolutions of the US and Germany. The UK just could not compete with the US and Germany. The end of colonialism meant that countries were throwing the British out and taking back their resources. Then the first and second world wars happened and weakened the UK further. Again the UK could not compete with the US, Germany, France, Japan and South Korea or India, let alone China. 

 

 Since 1993, the UK has also invested less in R&D and adaptation than its OECD competitors, the Tories closed big fatories deeming them ineffective, Labour squandered the mobile phone licences windfall, the Tories squandered the privatisation windfall of the late seventies and 80s, and to cap it all David Cameron led the UK out of the EU and Boris Johnson on a collision course.

 

Golden opportunities like using the North sea oil windfall to build up a sovereign wealth fund, like Norway did with great foresight, all these things were missed.

 

The UK squandered the family silver and is living on creditor's money, like Greece. 

 

What a tragic performance from the UK's leaders. 

Edited March 11, 2020 by Logosone

[david555]

The Bank of England is about to hold a press conference to discuss today’s shock rate cut. You can watch it live here:https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2020/mar/11/financial-markets-coronavirus-fears-bank-of-england-slashes-interest-rates-business-live

 

 

Edited March 11, 2020 by david555

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, Logosone said:

And the sad thing is it need not have ended like this. The UK started with industrialisation, it had a head start.

 

As late as the previous decade the UK had a gigantic oil windfall and could have started a sovereign wealth fund like Norway. 

 

"Have we not had oil flowing ashore from the North Sea for more than 30 years? So why isn’t Britain throwing her sovereign-wealth weight around like the sheikhs do? OK, Abu Dhabi has a higher ratio of oil barrels to citizens than we do, enabling the tiny gulf state to stash $1 million per head; but how come the Norwegians, who in most respects are quite like us, have managed to set aside a 2 trillion kroner (£200 billion) national pension fund out of their North Sea bounty, when all we’ve done is let Gordon Brown run up a colossal overdraft? Well, there’s a terribly simple answer. We could have been not just a contender but a seriously big player in this sovereign-wealth game. But like Colleen McLoughlin on a New York shopping trip, we blew the lot, the whole caboodle.

 

Extending Hawksworth’s idea, we might also lob in to the pot £70 billion or so of privatisation proceeds since 1979, and the £22 billion windfall Gordon Brown collected from the auction of 3G mobile phone licences. If we’d kept it all and managed it well, we’d now be richer than Abu Dhabi, with a fund worth more than $1 trillion. Even if we’d only kept half of it, we’d be kicking sand in the faces of Norway and Kuwait.

 

But as Hawksworth points out, we didn’t actually keep any of it — and nor does it show up in the form of increases in public sector net investment, which is lower as a percentage of GDP today than it was in 1978-79. Instead, both Conservative and Labour governments used the extra cash to keep non-oil taxes ‘lower than would otherwise have been possible without rising debt levels or sharp cuts in public spending relative to GDP’. If we had wanted to build up a sovereign savings account — to follow the Norwegian model and fund state pensions, say — we would have had to pay substantially more tax these past 30 years, or accept reduced public services. As it is, Britain’s sovereign wealth was effectively distributed to taxpayers to spend or save as they chose, and in very many cases that means it ended up in bricks and mortar, in Britain’s absurdly overpriced residential property market.

 

But it’s too late now: the end of North Sea oil is nigh, we’ve privatised everything, the pensions bill is mounting, the habit of personal saving has been all but lost, the housing market is tottering and the government’s finances are hopelessly adrift. We’re on a course set for us a generation ago; in a generation’s time, as John Hawksworth says, we’ll look enviously at Norway and the Gulf and wonder: where did our oil money go?"

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-hasn-t-britain-got-a-sovereign-wealth-fund-

 

So there you have it, the British leaders squandered the family silver. Just for a chance to stay in power and give the electorate lower taxes. They made the wrong decisions.

 

Britain got it wrong.

 

the value of the fund you mention is about

1000 000 000 000 000 quid

[Logosone]

52 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Before there any chance of the UK rejoining the EU , the UK will be subject to the EU Accession procedure

Do you have any idea of how many Billions of Euros the EU has wasted on Turkey accession to the EU over the past 30 years

Hopefully the EU members have got very deep pockets and willing to splash the cash as the UK will need Billions and Billions or Euros

Oh yes, I quite agree, the malicious and hypocritical dangling of the EU carrot before Turkish eyes was a total waste of money and time, and very dangerous and counter productive.

 

Thankfully, you the British, are not like the Turks. You are like us, Angles, Saxons, Yutes. Well, maybe a little more violent and hot-headed. Those charming native Picts and Welsh maybe. But your genius is only negligibly below ours, you are, after all, our descendants. We gave you your country and language. So we would no doubt not make you wait as long as as the Turks, and would most likely be serious about integrating you in the European family. Personally I'd put in a good word for you, after all I do appreciate your common sense.

 

Even if you need to be subsidised by the EU taxpayer, we're doing it with Greece, why not with our British cousins?

[Logosone]

23 minutes ago, david555 said:

The Bank of England is about to hold a press conference to discuss today’s shock rate cut. You can watch it live here:https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2020/mar/11/financial-markets-coronavirus-fears-bank-of-england-slashes-interest-rates-business-live

 

 

Thank you, superb link, watching it now. Mark Carney: 1998 to 2008 was a virtually lost decade.

 

We do not know how long coronavirus will take, but will last. We will try to avoid long-lasting economic effects if corona virus is short.

 

The scary part for the UK is that the UK now only as 15 basis points of ammunition left.

 

Edited March 11, 2020 by Logosone

[candide]

19 minutes ago, Logosone said:

 

Not at all, the prophetic words  of Martin Vander Weyer from the Spectator, not mine.

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-hasn-t-britain-got-a-sovereign-wealth-fund-

 

The far sighted author from the Spectator predicted over ten years ago where the UK would be headed. His words have come true tenfold.

 

Now the interesting question is how could it come to this? The UK after all had a head-start in industrialisation. It exploited countless countries' resources and had exclusive access to their markets and raw materials. How could the UK end up from number 1 economy in the world to....well... being outproduced by Italy and India?

 

The UK's share of manufacturing output had risen from 9.5% in 1830 during the Industrial Revolution to 22.9% in the 1870s. It fell to 13.6% by 1913, 10.7% by 1938, 4.9% by 1973 and 2% by 2015.

 

There were a number of reasons for this decline. The second economic revolutions of the US and Germany. The UK just could not compete with the US and Germany. The end of colonialism meant that countries were throwing the British out and taking back their resources. Then the first and second world wars happened and weakened the UK further. Again the UK could not compete with the US, Germany, France, Japan and South Korea or India, let alone China. 

 

 Since 1993, the UK has also invested less in R&D and adaptation than its OECD competitors, the Tories closed big fatories deeming them ineffective, Labour squandered the mobile phone licences windfall, the Tories squandered the privatisation windfall of the late seventies and 80s, and to cap it all David Cameron led the UK out of the EU and Boris Johnson on a collision course.

 

Golden opportunities like using the North sea oil windfall to build up a sovereign wealth fund, like Norway did with great foresight, all these things were missed.

 

The UK squandered the family silver and is living on creditor's money, like Greece. 

 

What a tragic performance from the UK's leaders. 

The UK economy has been characterised by a high level of financialisation. The negative effect of financialisation on investment has indeed been confirmed by several economic analyses, I.e.

https://gala.gre.ac.uk/id/eprint/14068/

[Logosone]

3 minutes ago, candide said:

The UK economy has been characterised by a high level of financialisation. The negative effect of financialisation on investment has indeed been confirmed by several economic analyses, I.e.

https://gala.gre.ac.uk/id/eprint/14068/

Very interesting.

 

The well from which the British economy drank was poisoned all along.

[TheDark]

51 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Please, can we rejoin the EU, PLEASE

We are all so sorry for leaving and we really want to come back

Please forgive us, we didnt know what we were doing .

All the old people who voted Brexit and will all soon be dead from corona 

And there will be just young remainers left .

Please let us back in again , we dont mind paying extra this time and we wont want a rebate .

 So sorry, please lets us in again 

It's best to let UK to feel the real consequences of Brexit prior she is let back to the community of European countries. 

 

That way lesson is learned and Brexit won't happen again any time soon in the next few decades. 

[TheDark]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

Before there any chance of the UK rejoining the EU , the UK will be subject to the EU Accession procedure

Do you have any idea of how many Billions of Euros the EU has wasted on Turkey accession to the EU over the past 30 years

Hopefully the EU members have got very deep pockets and willing to splash the cash as the UK will need Billions and Billions or Euros

Turkey has always been too big to join the EU. Turkish culture is also quite different compared to the cultures of EU. It's more close to the culture of Greece. It's not a surprise why Greece have had quite a lot of problems adapting to the more Central European cultures. 

 

The same applies to Russia, which at one point wanted to join the EU but got refused.

 

Turkey can be a close ally for EU. That it was in the past decades. Now when Turkey has been infested by religious uprising, it no longer is so close ally to us. This hurst Turkey's economy, which is also the way EU uses her power against countries which don't behave well. USA and China uses the same methods to protect their interest. 

 

 

[david555]

58 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Please, can we rejoin the EU, PLEASE

We are all so sorry for leaving and we really want to come back

Please forgive us, we didnt know what we were doing .

All the old people who voted Brexit and will all soon be dead from corona 

And there will be just young remainers left .

Please let us back in again , we dont mind paying extra this time and we wont want a rebate .

 So sorry, please lets us in again 

⛔⛔⛔????

[Logosone]

Yet another impressive performance by Mark Carney. He has to put lipstick on a pig but does so in an utterly faultless way.

 

Rhetorically brilliant, but by all accounts also in substance he delivered excellent work. A degree in economics from Harvard, postgraduate degree from Oxford, worked at Goldman Sachs, then led another central bank in Canada. 

 

A man couldn't have a better CV.

 

By contrast in charge of the European Central Bank we have a French woman who got a degree in English, social law and labour law from Nanterre. Then headed a law firm practising labour law. Minister in France.

 

It's not bad. But Carney is better.

[Logosone]

7 minutes ago, TheDark said:

Turkey has always been too big to join the EU. Turkish culture is also quite different compared to the cultures of EU. It's more close to the culture of Greece. It's not a surprise why Greece have had quite a lot of problems adapting to the more Central European cultures. 

 

The same applies to Russia, which at one point wanted to join the EU but got refused.

 

Turkey can be a close ally for EU. That it was in the past decades. Now when Turkey has been infested by religious uprising, it no longer is so close ally to us. This hurst Turkey's economy, which is also the way EU uses her power against countries which don't behave well. USA and China uses the same methods to protect their interest. 

 

 

Can you imagine Turkey as a member of the EU, and free movement for East Anatolians to roam free in Germany, France, Spain? 

 

That was never going to work. And yes Turkey is a large country, same population as Germany, and like Germans, Turks prefer Germany.

[transam]

51 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Very interesting.

 

The well from which the British economy drank was poisoned all along.

To give me a contrast to you beguiling of the UK, you obviously come from, or reside in a country that has done everything right, which country is that....?

Edited March 11, 2020 by transam

[TheDark]

23 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Can you imagine Turkey as a member of the EU, and free movement for East Anatolians to roam free in Germany, France, Spain? 

 

That was never going to work. And yes Turkey is a large country, same population as Germany, and like Germans, Turks prefer Germany.

In a way it would be ideal world where we have common understanding amongst all people. That's also called as pure communism, which has failed in most of the countries, because.. well, we are predatory animals, who wish to selfishly make our lives as good as it can be, even in expense of other fellow human beings.

 

That's our nature, at least now. 

 

And yeah, I love Science Fiction, where we can live together and prosper, without needing external enemies. But that's called fiction for a good reason. One can still hope for the better future of the human kind.

Edited March 11, 2020 by TheDark

[Logosone]

28 minutes ago, transam said:

To give me a contrast, to you beguiling of the UK, you obviously come from, or reside in a country that has done everything right, which country is that....?

No, not at all mistakes were also made. However, not in the magnitude and gravity that the UK's leaders have committed them.

 

I mean the UK was the leading economy in the world, first to industrialise, exploiting and robbing dozens of countries's resources at gunpoint, or at the very least having exclusive access to their markets.

 

The UK's share of manufacturing output had risen from 9.5% in 1830 during the Industrial Revolution to 22.9% in the 1870s. It fell to 13.6% by 1913, 10.7% by 1938, 4.9% by 1973 and 2% by 2015.

 

Imagine, to squander an advantage like that? Okay, some part of it was the USA and Germany and Japan and South Korea and India developing and the UK just could not compete. But it wasn't just the competition, even after WWII when the UK was weakened, competition was starting and the colonies got tired and kicked the Brits out and reclaimed their markets and resource, even AFTER that the UK still was in an excellent position.

 

But it wilfully torpedoed its own largest industrial big names, it wasted the 79 million Pound UK privatisation windfall, the 20 million pound mobile phone licences windfall, the North sea oil windfall.

 

It just spent it all. No sovereign wealth fund here.

 

Then it decided to take the UK out of the one economic market that was benefitting the UK most of all. 1.7 trillion GBP of assets leave the city, big name companies leave the city, foreign investments fall, the UK is downgraded by all rating agencies.

 

Now, instead of getting on his back and thanking the EU that it even is willing to grant the UK access the UK behaves like a spoiled teenager who wants to have its cake and eat it too.

 

To put it into perspective, the UK barely manages to produce 65% of the industrial output of South Korea. Even though South Korean has one sixth less population, it produces 30% more than the UK.

 

Yes, my country also made mistakes, but not like this. We outproduce the UK by almost 200%. We did not bet on oil and instead put our money on sustainable green energy. We certainly are not so dumb as to leave the largest single market in the world. And our GDP is significantly larger than the UK's, one trillion USD larger than the UK's to be precise. Of course we also made mistakes, but not in the same magnitutde or gravity as the British leaders have done.

 

Edited March 11, 2020 by Logosone

[Rookiescot]

Britain’s economy failed to grow in the last few months, showing it was weak even before the coronavirus struck.

GDP was flat in January, according to new data from the Office for National Statistics.

It was also flat in the November-January quarter - weaker than expected, and dashing hopes that the economy enjoyed a bounce after December’s general election.

The ONS says that Britain’s dominant services sector was flat in the three months to January 2020, while production contracted by 1.0%. Construction (a small part of the economy) grew by 1.4%.

[Logosone]

3 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Britain’s economy failed to grow in the last few months, showing it was weak even before the coronavirus struck.

GDP was flat in January, according to new data from the Office for National Statistics.

It was also flat in the November-January quarter - weaker than expected, and dashing hopes that the economy enjoyed a bounce after December’s general election.

The ONS says that Britain’s dominant services sector was flat in the three months to January 2020, while production contracted by 1.0%. Construction (a small part of the economy) grew by 1.4%.

That's right in the UK the last quarter of 2019 was basically flatlining.

 

And it is very hard to see a silver lining of any sort for the UK economy. The oil wars in particular will cost the UK dearly. Oil is more than three times bigger than pharmaceuticals in the UIK. Norway is already bracing for the outfall, but it has a sovereign fund that owns 2%  of the world's shares, the UK has nothing comparable.

 

The UK has an economy depending 80% on services, which will shortly be losing their free access to the EU, unless the UK is willing to compromise on following EU laws. Which it doesn't want to.

 

It left the world's largest market, which was its largest trading partner. And for what? Control of borders? The Brexiters let in anyone from the EU, not much control there.

 

Sovereignty? What can the UK do now it could not do before? 

 

Airbus is switching from Rolls Royce to GE and people are saying it will be a mortal blow to Rolls Royce

 

https://aviationweek.com/air-transport/opinion-can-rolls-royce-survive-its-own

 

Government spending is out of control. And it will have to continue as the economic climate will mean less tax revenue for the UK. And all the family silver is almost sold. What windfalls can the UK look forward to now? Privatisatio proceeds? Spent. Mobile phone licence windfall? Spent. North sea oil bonanaza? Spent.

 

Foreign investment in the UK is way down.

 

There'll be some very tough times ahead for the UK.