I think there is a fair chance I already had Covid-19 and now there may be a way to find out

[Jingthing]

Some background on this. I had a lot of exposure to Chinese tourists in Thailand (presumably mostly mainland) for numerous weeks before the world knew what was happening in Wuhan. 

 

I had developed some lower level symptoms during that time that could possibly be a mild symptom case. Such as body aches and fatigue lasting for some weeks. 

 

Possibly a fever but probably not severe. At the time my thermometer wasn't working (have since replaced it).

 

It was real enough for me to definitely notice but not severe enough to even consider seeing a doctor. Again this was before this became huge international news. 

 

Well I've been wondering if there is a way to check people if they have had Covid-19 already and recovered. Today at Boris Johnson's press conference in the U.K. he mentioned a test in development that should be able to determine that based on detecting antibodies. In other words, not positive now, but had it BEFORE.

 

Why is this useful?

 

Well at least two reasons.

 

For public health it would be useful to know what percentage of the population has already had it and didn't even know they had it. As far as the progress towards "herd immunity" under the theory that the majority of people will sooner or later get it before there is a vaccine.

 

Because of the theory that having it already provides at least some level of immunity. So people getting a positive result on that test might be able to relax more regarding their current risk of infection and also the risk to spread to others.

 

This test according to that conference isn't even available in the U.K. yet but will be. So questions remain about when it will be available, the cost, how widespread such testing for previous cases might be done, and also the question of the timing of access to it in Thailand, if any.

 

But that mention certainly caught my attention.

 

In this context people should keep in mind that it is already proven that many people that are infected with this virus (currently or recovered) feel NO symptoms at all, not even mild ones.

 

So If public health people wanted to really use such a new test for PREVIOUS infection, they would need to test a large segment of the population. Not only people with specific reasons to want it, such as myself. 

 

 

Edited March 18, 2020 by Jingthing

[emptypockets]

I work with Chinese nationals. Trust me they aren't all disease carrying zombies. Did you self isolate during the period you felt unwell?

Edited March 18, 2020 by emptypockets

[CharlieK]

I wonder how many people who get flu then go on to think they have/had covid 19? Not so much herd immunity as mass hysteria or even mass psychologically induced symptoms. 

 

Hypochondriac much? ???? 

Edited March 18, 2020 by CharlieK

[Justgrazing]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

This test according to that conference isn't even available in the U.K. yet but will be. So questions remain about when it will be available, the cost, how widespread such testing for previous cases might be done, and also the question of the timing of access to it in Thailand, if any.

If it is the one produced by Alphabio that was featured in the UK's media then its proposed cost is £125 + vat but it does appear to be aimed at the commercial and health sectors for organizations that wish to test employee's to try and prevent any who are unaware they may be infected from furthering it amongst the rest of the workforce .. As far as can be seen production of the kits will be directed to those organization deemed to need them the most before there will be any private availability .. If you have contracted it J T drink loads of water , eat loads of fresh fruit for the vit's content and aspirin to treat the symptoms .. some say Ibuprofen but the evidence for its effectiveness is not great ..

Edited March 18, 2020 by Justgrazing
Sp

[Jingthing]

17 hours ago, Justgrazing said:

If it is the one produced by Alphabio that was featured in the UK's media then its proposed cost is £125 + vat but it does appear to be aimed at the commercial and health sectors for organizations that wish to test employee's to try and prevent any who are unaware they may be infected from furthering it amongst the rest of the workforce .. As far as can be seen production of the kits will be directed to those organization deemed to need them the most before there will be any private availability .. If you have contracted it J T drink loads of water , eat loads of fresh fruit for the vit's content and aspirin to treat the symptoms .. some say Ibuprofen but the evidence for its effectiveness is not great ..

To be clear, I had these symptoms LONG AGO. I don't have the symptoms now so  there is nothing to treat.

I thought I made that clear enough. 
There is strong evidence that the virus was circulating in Wuhan for MONTHS before information about the crisis became public.

During those MONTHS before anyone knew about any virus, before "social isolation" masks and alcohol gels was on the mass public's consciousness there were masses of Chinese tourists in Pattaya. While the bus tour type were largely isolated to people serving them a fair portion of those Chinese tourists were independent travelers. I had frequent exposure to them over a long period of time in crowded Chinese restaurants. 

 

So yes I do think it's entirely possible that I caught the virus during the earlier days of this, well before Golden Week where there were mass cancellations. I can't possibly know the odds either way.

 

Back to the topic. Yes I would like to know if I did have it before for the reasons stated in my OP so if there's a test for that I'd be interested.

 

There was some noise that people were getting reinfected on the news but just tonight a famous U.S. t.v. doctor Dr. Gupta rejected that and attributed that to testing error.

 

Of course if this become a seasonal thing (entirely possible) that never goes away then immunity from this year would either be limited or nonexistent and high risk people would need to get new annual vaccine jabs. 

[CharlieH]

Reported troll and somewhat offensive post has been removed.

[ukrules]

50 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

 

Back to the topic. Yes I would like to know if I did have it before for the reasons stated in my OP so if there's a test for that I'd be interested.

 

In a few months time antibody tests will be plentiful and I believe they will replace PCR tests for diagnosis, they're quick and cheap but they're still in development at the moment.

 

By the time you show symptoms there will be antibodies, I read about a test being launched by a Japanese company which is based on antibody detection and can detect them before it reliably shows up in PCR tests.

 

This new technology is coming.

 

 

 

[Jingthing]

Yes Boris Johnson just mentioned that they are in negotiation to buy hundreds of thousands of the new antibody tests and he mentioned again about the usefulness of knowing about the numbers of people that have HAD the virus already distinguished from testing for current infections. 

[lamyai3]

On 3/19/2020 at 1:13 AM, Jingthing said:

So If public health people wanted to really use such a new test for PREVIOUS infection, they would need to test a large segment of the population.

Indeed, widespread antibody tests will be a really important development with regard to allowing social functioning to return to normal. A test proving someone has had the virus and recovered is a thousand times more useful than the 3 day old covid-19 certificate the Thai authorities are asking for to enter the country right now. 

[Sheryl]

On 3/20/2020 at 4:22 AM, lamyai3 said:

Indeed, widespread antibody tests will be a really important development with regard to allowing social functioning to return to normal. A test proving someone has had the virus and recovered is a thousand times more useful than the 3 day old covid-19 certificate the Thai authorities are asking for to enter the country right now. 

 

It will also be helpful in deciding (or at least prioritizing) who to vaccinate. Once a vaccine is ready it will still take a lot of time to produce the vast quantities needed to meet demand.

[ukrules]

Just in case anyone's interested in the article I read about antibody testing, here's a little snippet from it :

 

Dated March 13th, 2020

 

Quote

The kit, which uses a small blood sample and a reagent, is expected to reduce time and costs compared to the polymerase chain reaction (PCR) test currently used to detect the pneumonia-causing disease, according to the maker. PCR testing takes four to six hours after a sample is collected from a patient’s throat or other parts of the body.

Kurabo’s kit will take only 15 minutes to display a red line on a test strip after a blood sample from a suspected patient is mixed with a reagent on the strip. The red line indicates the presence of antibodies for the virus in the blood and a positive test result, the company said.

 

 

This part is notable and represents a big change in detection methods :

 

Quote

It will be on sale from Monday, and unlike the current PCR tests, it is also effective in detecting the virus in patients at early stages of the disease, the firm said. It aims to supply enough kits for a total capacity of 10,000 tests per day.

 

So we appear to be talking about quicker more accurate detection and at an earlier stage.

 

Source : https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/03/13/national/kurabo-coronavirus-test-kits/

Edited March 20, 2020 by ukrules

[donnacha]

Presuming immunity, being able to identify people who have already had it is valuable far beyond simply allowing people to return to their jobs. It means we can ask those people, the immune, to fill roles that come into contact with the vulnerable, or assist the infected without any danger to themselves, or even just do tasks where being in contact with large numbers of people is unavoidable.

This test should be made available for free, with the understanding that the authorities will have access to the results. The immune should then be offered unusually high salaries to carry out the needed jobs until the emergency is over. I would do it for a generous wage and reasonable lodgings wherever they needed me to be.

I know this won't be a popular opinion but I'm quite impressed by the innovative approach the UK government have been taking to this crisis. They got a shellacking over their "herd immunity" idea, but it actually made a lot of sense if you actually want to protect the most vulnerable and not just look as if you are taking serious measures. I have a hunch that the UK will pull out of this crisis more quickly, and with less damage to their economy, than the other developed nations.

 

Edited March 20, 2020 by donnacha

[Jingthing]

14 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

It will also be helpful in deciding (or at least prioritizing) who to vaccinate. Once a vaccine is ready it will still take a lot of time to produce the vast quantities needed to met demand.

Yes once a vaccine is ready for the public you're obviously right that people in high risk groups should be and probably will be prioritized. 

 

However such a vaccine is not likely to be available for a year and more likely 18 months so I question whether they would know that infection over a year ago would still provide any current immunity that would rule out giving a vaccine especially to people in high risk groups. 

[nobodysfriend]

On 3/19/2020 at 1:13 AM, Jingthing said:

Because of the theory that having it already provides at least some level of immunity.

We had the discussion about a possible vaccine based on the antibodies an infected body produces .

AFAIK it did not work .

Immunity may not last a long time , and there have been reports of already cured patients in China who became reinfected .

[Jingthing]

44 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

We had the discussion about a possible vaccine based on the antibodies an infected body produces .

AFAIK it did not work .

Immunity may not last a long time , and there have been reports of already cured patients in China who became reinfected .

Those reports about reinfection are rare and most likely due to testing error according to Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Most likely having had it does provide some immunity. The question is how much and for how long. Of course there is a lot that is not definitively known yet about this virus as it's so new. 

Edited March 21, 2020 by Jingthing

[dash]

On 3/19/2020 at 3:23 PM, ukrules said:

 

 

 

Quote

 

 

 

 

Edited March 21, 2020 by dash
do not understand how to edit

[dash]

Antibodies and PCR tests are not relevant for the outcoming of a  "cold" both tests can be positiv. The critical question is whether the virus has mutated or not inside the host organism.

 

[Unify]

According to what I've read, there are two variants of the virus. It sounds like they're very similar, but one is better at infecting humans. I suspect immunity to one would provide immunity to the other, but I've seen no data on that.

 

In the future, we may see stains different enough to require a new vaccine every year. We'll see.

[nobodysfriend]

36 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Those reports about reinfection are rare and most likely due to testing error according to Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Most likely having had it does provide some immunity. The question is how much and for how long. Of course there is a lot that is not definitively known yet about this virus as it's so new. 

That is correct .

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/20/819038431/do-you-get-immunity-after-recovering-from-a-case-of-coronavirus

 

----In studies, human volunteers who agreed to be experimentally inoculated with a seasonal coronavirus , ( not Covid 19 ) , showed that even people with pre-existing antibodies could still get infected and have symptoms. ----

 

Time will tell ... If a lasting immunity could be acquired after having been cured of Covid , a vaccine against it will be developed soon ...

[nobodysfriend]

6 minutes ago, Unify said:

According to what I've read, there are two variants of the virus. It sounds like they're very similar, but one is better at infecting humans. I suspect immunity to one would provide immunity to the other, but I've seen no data on that.

 

In the future, we may see stains different enough to require a new vaccine every year. We'll see.

Correct , there is the S and the L stain . one is a little more contagious than the other , but both are basically the same .

There is also the possibility that the virus itself mutates into a more ( or less ) deadly version .

Mutations in viruses are very common .

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, Unify said:

According to what I've read, there are two variants of the virus. It sounds like they're very similar, but one is better at infecting humans. I suspect immunity to one would provide immunity to the other, but I've seen no data on that.

 

In the future, we may see stains different enough to require a new vaccine every year. We'll see.

It's probably likely that this virus is with us indefinitely but that it will eventually not be an epidemic threat but a more normal one where a vaccine is available.

[Jingthing]

It's more likely that it will mutate into being less serious than more.

As it is, it's a very difficult virus.

Perhaps 5 times easier to transmit than seasonal flu and at least 10 times the mortality rate. But it's not a flu virus.

Also the long incubation period and the high rate of no symptom or no symptom cases isn't making this easier to stop. 

 

 

 

[Ventenio]

my body temperature was HIGH and I did cough a few times.  I have FULLY recovered.

 

yes, I was running intervals up a hill around noon.    does that matter?

 

 

[geisha]

On 3/18/2020 at 8:24 PM, Justgrazing said:

If it is the one produced by Alphabio that was featured in the UK's media then its proposed cost is £125 + vat but it does appear to be aimed at the commercial and health sectors for organizations that wish to test employee's to try and prevent any who are unaware they may be infected from furthering it amongst the rest of the workforce .. As far as can be seen production of the kits will be directed to those organization deemed to need them the most before there will be any private availability .. If you have contracted it J T drink loads of water , eat loads of fresh fruit for the vit's content and aspirin to treat the symptoms .. some say Ibuprofen but the evidence for its effectiveness is not great ..

Hi, The use of anti inflammatory medicines are not advised to treat this virus ! There have been warnings on TV and the international press ! Apparently can make the infection worse . If you think you have caught this virus, use only Paracetamol wisely , if you have a fever and call your doctor.

[thailand49]

On 3/19/2020 at 6:26 AM, Jingthing said:

To be clear, I had these symptoms LONG AGO. I don't have the symptoms now so  there is nothing to treat.

I thought I made that clear enough. 
There is strong evidence that the virus was circulating in Wuhan for MONTHS before information about the crisis became public.

During those MONTHS before anyone knew about any virus, before "social isolation" masks and alcohol gels was on the mass public's consciousness there were masses of Chinese tourists in Pattaya. While the bus tour type were largely isolated to people serving them a fair portion of those Chinese tourists were independent travelers. I had frequent exposure to them over a long period of time in crowded Chinese restaurants. 

 

So yes I do think it's entirely possible that I caught the virus during the earlier days of this, well before Golden Week where there were mass cancellations. I can't possibly know the odds either way.

 

Back to the topic. Yes I would like to know if I did have it before for the reasons stated in my OP so if there's a test for that I'd be interested.

 

There was some noise that people were getting reinfected on the news but just tonight a famous U.S. t.v. doctor Dr. Gupta rejected that and attributed that to testing error.

 

Of course if this become a seasonal thing (entirely possible) that never goes away then immunity from this year would either be limited or nonexistent and high risk people would need to get new annual vaccine jabs. 

Good luck with the test once you find out if positive, will you take the time frame trace it back to who you were in contact with before and after now that would be interesting?  Because of that I hope you just had the flu.

[EricTh]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yes once a vaccine is ready for the public you're obviously right that people in high risk groups should be and probably will be prioritized. 

 

 

 

If you already have the antibody, then that's nothing to worry. Doctors might even want your antibody for their patients.

 

 

 

 

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, thailand49 said:

Good luck with the test once you find out if positive, will you take the time frame trace it back to who you were in contact with before and after now that would be interesting?  Because of that I hope you just had the flu.

As far as I know the type of test I'd be interested in that would show that person had it before but doesn't now is not available in Thailand or even perhaps in the U.K. yet. So your second question is moot. 

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, EricTh said:

 

If you already have the antibody, then that's nothing to worry. Doctors might even want your antibody for their patients.

 

 

 

 

I'd like to know because it would probably mean at least some current immunity. Not about worrying. About worrying less. Funny what you say about the use of such blood. I don't know if this is something to be proud of or not but back in the day my blood was used as part of a study that eventually led to the development of the Hepatitis B vaccine.

[placnx]

On 3/19/2020 at 9:23 PM, ukrules said:

 

In a few months time antibody tests will be plentiful and I believe they will replace PCR tests for diagnosis, they're quick and cheap but they're still in development at the moment.

 

By the time you show symptoms there will be antibodies, I read about a test being launched by a Japanese company which is based on antibody detection and can detect them before it reliably shows up in PCR tests.

 

This new technology is coming.

 

 

 

I have been looking at various tests in development, plus the Chinese test alleged to be an antibody test. It's not clear that these tests will distinguish between someone sick and someone who has already recovered from the virus. Can anybody explain this?

[IAMHERE]

13 hours ago, donnacha said:

It means we can ask those people, the immune, to fill roles that come into contact with the vulnerable, or assist the infected without any danger to themselves, or even just do tasks where being in contact with large numbers of people is unavoidable.

Works if those who are 'over' Covid-19 do not relapse into a 2nd case of Covid-19. There seems to be evidence a further case of Covid-19 after the first case is possible.