USA now think better to wear mask.

[Isaanbiker]

1 hour ago, Farangwithaplan said:

same logic:

 

Countries that consume olive oil have high death rate.., What can be the only possible conclusion?

 

Don't drink it, sniff it!

[liddelljohn]

Problem is that even if you want masks there are now none to be had  anywhere , no shops have  them , no pharmacy has them , unavailable online ,,, so what do you do ??  my supply has run out  or become soiled ,, ??????????

[Tayaout]

16 hours ago, Logosone said:

Okay, I'm game. Post a link to those multiple studies that conclude that masks work against Covid19.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3285078/

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23498357/

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24229526/

 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/09/190903134732.htm

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2662657/

 

There is more... No studies that say mask dont work unless you have a diploma and work in a hospital. However they are not perfect and like a seatbelt they are part of a global strategy to protect oneself. They also require to be used correctly which I see many people don't but it can be fixed by watching youtube.

 

 

 

 

Since the beginning of the crisis, I only used 2X N95 masks when I went to the Myanmar border since I already bought months of foods and I don't need to go to crowded place. I might have to use the mask again when I will need to visit immigration in a month or two. 

Edited April 2, 2020 by Tayaout

[Tayaout]

11 minutes ago, Tayaout said:

 

 

 

 

 

Deleted

Edited April 2, 2020 by Tayaout

[Tayaout]

16 hours ago, Logosone said:

A coronavirus virion (particle) is spherical, averaging around 125 nanometers in diameter. Compare that to bacteria’s 1,000-nm size. It’s a grape compared to a grapefruit. A surgical mask whose purpose is to block bacteria will do little to prevent passage of the smaller coronavirus particle. 

 

https://www.fastcompany.com/90483762/why-masks-arent-better-at-protecting-us-from-viruses

First virus come in water droplet. Second even if they were not then mask block smaller particules than virus even more easily. 

 

 

multimedia.pdf

[4MyEgo]

9 hours ago, Yinn said:

Helping the farang.

Some people to sensitive.

Helping understand thailand ,help translation real, help with real information and this thread safe the life.

You very lucky I help everyone! ????

And my funny joke. ????

 

ps.i still not think Qantas is good business. No customer, no business = no profit. Only expense.

6 months+ I think. 

Maybe be ok in 2-3 years? 

 

 

Hahah yes you funny Yinn.

 

Keep joking ????

 

[Yinn]

IMPORTANT UPDATE.

 

White House expected to urge Americans to wear face coverings in public to slow spread of coronavirus

 

White House coronavirus task force officials have been considering whether to recommend that face coverings be routinely worn in public because of increasing evidence that infected people without symptoms can spread the virus, according to internal memos and new guidance provided to the White House by the CDC.

 

 

link..

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/02/coronavirus-facemasks-policyreversal/

 

 

[Curt1591]

21 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

masks make my glasses fog.

You're wearing it wrong. 
 

When my glasses fog, it's a signal to adjust the fit. 

[Yinn]

10 hours ago, cardinalblue said:

The historical issue With the US was they don't and still don’t want the public using the approved respirator (N-95) For fear of a shortage of this type of mask in health care settings...this is exactly what happened...

 

that is why the CDC WHO etc made a general statement which now in hindsight was a mistake about the public don’t need to wear masks...

 

what they should have said is please don’t use N-95 as those are for HC workers but up to you if you want to wear other types of masks which are available over the counter...they made the mistake by applying an occupational requirement to general use at large....

 

asian countries have always been ahead of the game as they have a tendency to wear masks usually surgical or other unregulated face Masks in public when sick...good idea and practice...so it has been easier to get Asians to wear masks in public during this pandemic b/c they have a history of wearing masks in public...air pollution In Asia also contributes heavily to mask wearing and thus familiarity...

 

one could argue that data research shows surgical masks are not effective against Various air pollutants Under occupational mask testing but that’s a topic for another day....

 

good to see so many Thais wear masks in public as for those who are infected, it slows their spread rates down....

Yes, you correct.

 

Inside America’s mask crunch: A slow government reaction and an industry wary of liability

 

 

Chief executive Michael Roman said he was concerned that repurposing the company’s industrial masks, which made up the bulk of its production, for use by doctors and nurses could leave the company vulnerable to lawsuits. The lack of a liability waiver from Congress — a protection the industry has sought for years — would hinder full distribution of the gear, he said.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/inside-americas-mask-crunch-a-slow-government-reaction-and-an-industry-wary-of-liability/2020/04/02/b3155e2a-6f85-11ea-aa80-c2470c6b2034_story.html

 

 

Government lie. Now thousand die.

Everyday. 

And some STILL refuse to wear mask because believe it.

 

We need.

1 More test

2. Wash hand

3. Social distance

4. WEAR MASK

[Nyezhov]

38 minutes ago, Curt1591 said:

You're wearing it wrong. 
 

When my glasses fog, it's a signal to adjust the fit. 

Im not using N95s, they dont fog even though I have a beard.

 

Im talking about surgical masks, which I have to adjust so much as might as well be smearing virii and faecal coliform over my face every five minutes.

[Logosone]

2 hours ago, Tayaout said:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3285078/

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23498357/

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24229526/

 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/09/190903134732.htm

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2662657/

 

There is more... No studies that say mask dont work unless you have a diploma and work in a hospital.

Thanks for posting the links, I will have a look.

 

However, there are studies that say that masks don't work:

 

Conclusions: This study is the first RCT (randomised clinical trial) of cloth masks, and the results caution against the use of cloth masks. This is an important finding to inform occupational health and safety. Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection. Further research is needed to inform the widespread use of cloth masks globally. However, as a precautionary measure, cloth masks should not be recommended for HCWs, particularly in high-risk situations, and guidelines need to be updated.

 

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577

[Logosone]

1 hour ago, Yinn said:

 

White House coronavirus task force officials have been considering whether to recommend that face coverings be routinely worn in public because of increasing evidence that infected people without symptoms can spread the virus, according to internal memos and new guidance provided to the White House by the CDC.

 

 

link..

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/02/coronavirus-facemasks-policyreversal/

 

 

Even though you put this in huge capitals this may not be as significant as you think. Obviously the fear and panic in the US is rising and they are willing to try anything whatsoever just in case it could make any difference.

 

As the Wall Street Journal writes this measure is borne out of desperation, rather than hard science:

 

"There is growing pressure to look at face-mask guidelines as countries become more desperate to try every strategy they can. "

https://www.wsj.com/articles/is-it-time-to-wear-a-face-mask-11585855788

 

Even as everyone in the US is expecting the new CDC guidelines, American scientists are still saying that N95 masks are not appropriate to wear for everyday use:

 

"Even without a shortage, N95 masks aren’t appropriate for everyday use by the general public, says Jeremy Howard, a distinguished research scientist at the University of San Francisco and a big proponent of mask-wearing. “Those need to be properly fitted,” he says. “They are designed for aerosol-generating procedures, not for day-to-day walking around.”

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/is-it-time-to-wear-a-face-mask-11585855788

 

Those that advocate for wearing masks do so on the basis of a study that say that masks make a difference of 10% in transmission:

 

"Sten Vermund, dean of the Yale School of Public Health, says a 2005 study found that face masks reduce respiratory virus transmission by about 10%."

 

However as protection for yourself still useless:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/is-it-time-to-wear-a-face-mask-11585855788

 

The CDC has a record of getting things wrong with the coronavirus, they were the ones who caused the delay in producing test-kits:

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/coronavirus-german-tests-develop-private-pharma-company-cdc-a9406956.html

 

Now it looks like in desperation, in the absence of real evidence that masks make a real difference they will suggest people wear masks just because they are desperate to try anything in the face of increasing numbers of infected.

Edited April 3, 2020 by Logosone

[Yinn]

7 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Even though you put this in huge capitals this may not be as significant as you think. Obviously the fear and panic in the US is rising and they are willing to try anything whatsoever just in case it could make any difference.

 

As the Wall Street Journal writes this measure is borne out of desperation, rather than hard science:

 

"There is growing pressure to look at face-mask guidelines as countries become more desperate to try every strategy they can. "

https://www.wsj.com/articles/is-it-time-to-wear-a-face-mask-11585855788

 

Even as everyone in the US is expecting the new CDC guidelines, American scientists are still saying that N95 masks are not appropriate to wear for everyday use:

 

"Even without a shortage, N95 masks aren’t appropriate for everyday use by the general public, says Jeremy Howard, a distinguished research scientist at the University of San Francisco and a big proponent of mask-wearing. “Those need to be properly fitted,” he says. “They are designed for aerosol-generating procedures, not for day-to-day walking around.”

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/is-it-time-to-wear-a-face-mask-11585855788

 

Those that advocate for wearing masks do so on the basis of a study that say that masks make a difference of 10% in transmission:

 

"Sten Vermund, dean of the Yale School of Public Health, says a 2005 study found that face masks reduce respiratory virus transmission by about 10%."

 

However as protection for yourself still useless:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/is-it-time-to-wear-a-face-mask-11585855788

 

The CDC has a record of getting things wrong with the coronavirus, they were the ones who caused the delay in producing test-kits:

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/coronavirus-german-tests-develop-private-pharma-company-cdc-a9406956.html

 

Now it looks like in desperation, in the absence of real evidence that masks make a real difference they will suggest people wear masks just because they are desperate to try anything in the face of increasing numbers of infected.

I know you will argue.

[Tayaout]

39 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Thanks for posting the links, I will have a look.

 

However, there are studies that say that masks don't work:

 

Conclusions: This study is the first RCT (randomised clinical trial) of cloth masks, and the results caution against the use of cloth masks. This is an important finding to inform occupational health and safety. Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection. Further research is needed to inform the widespread use of cloth masks globally. However, as a precautionary measure, cloth masks should not be recommended for HCWs, particularly in high-risk situations, and guidelines need to be updated.

 

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577

Thanks for posting a link to a real study. I don't take seriously newspapers claims that don't even link to a study. There is a lot of politic involved. Doctors are also sometime wrong when you take the time to search for what studies have found. I have a whole book written by a doctor about false myth that doctors keep telling their patients.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Lies-My-Doctor-Told-Me/dp/0999090518

Edited April 3, 2020 by Tayaout

[Logosone]

Studies that have concluded that face masks do not work in reducing the transmission of viruses, the first one is from Bangkok, Thailand, the last one says face masks can increase the risk of infection:

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4634545/

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2984432/

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2662657/

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3291415/

 

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577

[Gulfsailor]

The Robert Koch Institute (German equivalent of the CDC in the US) has made an about turn and now advocates the use of surgical face masks to be worn by the general public in public to reduce the spread of the virus.

They do emphasize that N95 respirators should only be worn by medical personnel. This is first because of the shortage and second because many of these respirators have a breathing valve, which results in the wearer being protected, but others not protected from the wearer who could be an asymptomatic spreader. 

 

https://www.rki.de/SharedDocs/FAQ/NCOV2019/FAQ_Mund_Nasen_Schutz.html

 

[Logosone]

44 minutes ago, Gulfsailor said:

The Robert Koch Institute (German equivalent of the CDC in the US) has made an about turn and now advocates the use of surgical face masks to be worn by the general public in public to reduce the spread of the virus.

They do emphasize that N95 respirators should only be worn by medical personnel. This is first because of the shortage and second because many of these respirators have a breathing valve, which results in the wearer being protected, but others not protected from the wearer who could be an asymptomatic spreader. 

 

https://www.rki.de/SharedDocs/FAQ/NCOV2019/FAQ_Mund_Nasen_Schutz.html

 

 

It's a bit disappointing of the RKI that they still advise 1.5 m distance, when the MIT has shown that 8 metres minimum would be required.

 

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/two-metres-not-enough-when-social-distancing-39083182.html

 

They of course also say that "such protective effect has not been scientifically proven, (see also the guidelines of the BfArM)". 

 

So a bit like the CDC, acting on a hunch and a prayer, without scientific evidence. A bit uncharacteristic of the RKI, but then these are extraordinary times. 

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, Gulfsailor said:

The Robert Koch Institute (German equivalent of the CDC in the US) has made an about turn and now advocates the use of surgical face masks to be worn by the general public in public to reduce the spread of the virus.

Apparently they didn't clear that with our TV expert, Logosone.

[tropo]

The OP misrepresented what the White House Coronavirus Response Team had to say about masks yesterday. The matter is still under debate and no one, including Trump, has suggested that everyone should wear them.

 

In an effort to set the record straight, here is what the White House had to say about masks in the longest WH briefing to date.

 

To save you sitting through the entire 2+ hours (which I did), here is where the subject of masks was discussed:

 

1:23:10 to 1:24:30  - a reporter asks Trump about their policy on mask-wearing.

 

1:29:20 to 1:31:19  - Dr Deborah Birx discussing mask wearing in more detail, covering their reasons why it has not yet been mandated.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 3, 2020 by tropo

[DrTuner]

6 hours ago, Logosone said:

Studies that have concluded that face masks do not work in reducing the transmission of viruses, the first one is from Bangkok, Thailand, the last one says face masks can increase the risk of infection:

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4634545/

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2984432/

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2662657/

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3291415/

 

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577

I would be really interested in a study for those plexiglass face shields. They seem to be a far better solution to creating a solid barrier.

[Logosone]

I was thinking exactly the same, they seem very useful. I suppose the downside is that they're not tight fitting and theoretically the virus could enter from the bottom.

 

In combination with a N95 mask could be the germophobe's dream.

 

It must be very hard to test these devices in a meaningful clinical trial though.

[NanLaew]

17 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

And people tend to wear the same mask hour after hour, day after day. 

I leave my used mask on top of the dashboard, parked up, in the sun. After an hour, that's about 160°F. There... sterilized.

 

17 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

And the same mask on day 2 can be quite  bacteria garden for the stuff and moisture you breathed onto it.

Yes indeed but by the same token, it is all MY bacteria.

[balo]

I wear sunglasses all the time now to avoid virus particles in my eyes. 

[gk10002000]

3 hours ago, NanLaew said:

I leave my used mask on top of the dashboard, parked up, in the sun. After an hour, that's about 160°F. There... sterilized.

 

Yes indeed but by the same token, it is all MY bacteria.

That you then breathe out onto others after it multiplies

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, gk10002000 said:

That you then breathe out onto others after it multiplies

No. You forget the basic premise of the shouty, 'You can't force me to wear a mask because they are usless!' brigade in that my mask won't prevent you inhaling nastiness but it will prevent my exhaled nastiness from blighting your questionably bright future.

[Chrysaora]

18 hours ago, Tayaout said:

No studies that say mask dont work unless you have a diploma and work in a hospital. However they are not perfect and like a seatbelt they are part of a global strategy to protect oneself. They also require to be used correctly which I see many people don't but it can be fixed by watching youtube.

Without looking, I can't wait to see the lemmings pile on telling you that you only posted 5 sources and it isn't enough.  

 

Everyone should get exactly what they deserve and for those that don't want to put on a mask to protect my family and themselves don't deserve a moment's sympathy should something bad befall them.

[Chrysaora]

13 hours ago, Logosone said:

Studies that have concluded that face masks do not work in reducing the transmission of viruses, the first one is from Bangkok, Thailand, the last one says face masks can increase the risk of infection:

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4634545/

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2984432/

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2662657/

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3291415/

 

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577

I clicked on the last link.  You didn't read it.

 

Quote

Conclusions This study is the first RCT of cloth masks, and the results caution against the use of cloth masks. This is an important finding to inform occupational health and safety. Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection. Further research is needed to inform the widespread use of cloth masks globally. However, as a precautionary measure, cloth masks should not be recommended for HCWs, particularly in high-risk situations, and guidelines need to be updated.

The study was a comparison of surgical masks versus cloth masks.  It is not surprising they advise not to wear cloth masks.  They didn't say not to wear a surgical mask.  It would help if you are going to go cherry pick articles, that you read it. 

 

It makes look foolish indeed to make statement about "facts" not present in the article.

[jacob29]

14 hours ago, Logosone said:

Studies that have concluded that face masks do not work in reducing the transmission of viruses, the first one is from Bangkok, Thailand, the last one says face masks can increase the risk of infection:

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4634545/

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2984432/

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2662657/

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3291415/

 

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577

First study says they also found hand washing had no effect. Right.

Quote

 Influenza transmission was not reduced by interventions to promote hand washing and face mask use.

Second study confirms masks were effective

Quote

However, in these trials, secondary analysis suggested that intervention using face masks could have a significant effectiveness if implemented rapidly from illness onset or providing a good adherence to the intervention

Third study summarizes masks could be expected to be useful in high adherence pandemic situations

Quote

Therefore, although we found that distributing masks during seasonal winter influenza outbreaks is an ineffective control measure characterized by low adherence, results indicate the potential efficacy of masks in contexts where a larger adherence may be expected, such as during a severe influenza pandemic or other emerging infection.

Do I even need to bother looking at the last two links? 

 

[utalkin2me]

14 hours ago, Logosone said:

Studies that have concluded that face masks do not work in reducing the transmission of viruses, the first one is from Bangkok, Thailand, the last one says face masks can increase the risk of infection:

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4634545/

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2984432/

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2662657/

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3291415/

 

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577

If you are going around speaking with others, you want them to have a mask on. 

 

In turn, it is best if you have a mask on while speaking with others. 

 

This stuff is not that difficult people. 

[gunderhill]

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-52153145/coronavirus-we-do-not-recommend-face-masks-for-general-wearing