UK cancels order for simple ventilators, needs more complex ones: source

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UK cancels order for simple ventilators, needs more complex ones: source

 

FILE PHOTO: Medical staff are seen outside the NHS Nightingale Hospital at the Excel Centre in London as the spread of the coronavirus disease (COVID-19) continues, London, Britain, April 11, 2020. REUTERS/Henry Nicholls

 

LONDON (Reuters) - Britain has cancelled an order for thousands of units of a simple model of ventilator developed by industrial companies to treat COVID-19 because more sophisticated devices are now needed, a source involved in the project said on Sunday.

 

The government confirmed it no longer required that particular model, known as BlueSky.

 

"We are no longer supporting the production of the BlueSky device following a reassessment of the product's viability in light of the ever developing picture around what is needed to most effectively treat COVID-19," said a spokesman for the Cabinet Office, which is coordinating ventilator orders.

 

"We are continuing to work at unprecedented speed with a number of other manufacturers to scale up UK production of ventilators," the spokesman said.

 

The government has appealed to industry to come forward with new models of ventilator that could be produced on a large scale at short notice to help the National Health Service deal with a surge in patients infected with the new coronavirus.

 

More than 30,000 ventilators in total have been ordered from various consortia of firms from sectors including aerospace, engineering and Formula One.

 

The source, who did not wish to be named because they were not authorised to disclose sensitive details to the media, said the group involved in the BlueSky project had been preparing to deliver thousands of units.

 

The source said the reason given by the government to the BlueSky team for cancelling the order was that while the overall number of new UK coronavirus infections was slowing, cases seen in hospitals were more complex than expected.

 

With several projects competing for the same components, which are in limited supply, the government decided to prioritise more sophisticated devices and cancel the BlueSky order with immediate effect, the source said.

 

The government is going ahead with the production and delivery of other devices as part of its initiative with industry. The first paraPac devices from Smiths Group were delivered to hospitals on Sunday.

 

Other devices are currently going through testing, including newly designed products. The government has said it will confirm orders once the new devices pass approvals and have confirmed delivery schedules.

 

(Reporting by London Bureau; Writing by Estelle Shirbon; Editing by Giles Elgood)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-04-13

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[Chomper Higgot]

Specifications and standards were already in place when this virus hit.

 

What kind of idiocy comes up with the idea of designing and producing something different?

 

It seems the kind of idiots who stand on their political platform of bleating about too many ‘Standards’ and ‘Regulations’, that’s what kind of idiocy.

 

 

 

[JAG]

51 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It seems the kind of idiots who stand on their political platform of bleating about too many ‘Standards’ and ‘Regulations’, that’s what kind of idiocy.

Have you any proof or evidence that such political beliefs were behind any decisions to make such procurement arrangements?

 

You see, the last twelve months or so on this forum suggest that your views on just about any matter are also driven by your somewhat trenchant political beliefs.

 

On occasions I may agree with you, more often I don't, but that doesn't make me, or anyone else who disagrees with your views an idiot.

[Blue Muton]

1 hour ago, car720 said:

This is the correct way.  People first, profits second.

Perhaps Boris had an epiphany during his recent illness.

[Chomper Higgot]

8 minutes ago, JAG said:

Have you any proof or evidence that such political beliefs were behind any decisions to make such procurement arrangements?

 

You see, the last twelve months or so on this forum suggest that your views on just about any matter are also driven by your somewhat trenchant political beliefs.

 

On occasions I may agree with you, more often I don't, but that doesn't make me, or anyone else who disagrees with your views an idiot.

It’s a small, but I feel important, point.

 

I did not call you or anyone on this forum an idiot.

[faraday]

Post -tender negotiations by a competing company, most likely came up with a better price.

[Surelynot]

Reeks of incompetence. 

[VocalNeal]

I'll take one of the F1 versions. If I get a free baseball cap!

Edited April 13, 2020 by VocalNeal

[Chomper Higgot]

Another item for the inquiry into the Government’s response to examine.

 

And let’s have some names and some cost impacts while we are at it.

[Bramley]

34 minutes ago, Blue Muton said:

Perhaps Boris had an epiphany during his recent illness.

You forgot to put "illness" in quotation marks, following his miraculous resurrection.

[Surelynot]

2 minutes ago, Bramley said:

You forgot to put "illness" in quotation marks, following his miraculous resurrection.

Not convinced he was that I'll. He knows the whole thing is a crock of...........and doesn't wanted to be tainted like Hancock et al. And he's work shy.

[stevenl]

17 minutes ago, Bramley said:

You forgot to put "illness" in quotation marks, following his miraculous resurrection.

Nonsense implied accusation.

[marko kok prong]

Being an Englishman,i must say i am sometimes surprised with our amount of bungling,that we ever managed to have an Empire,or come out victors in 2 world wars,it reminds me of fawlty towers with the germans,at the end when the mooses head fell on Basil,and the major was smacking it'you naughty moose', and one German shakes his head,and says' however did they win', if someone could put the clip on i would be obliged as it is a technical feat that i cannot master.

[VocalNeal]

^ Why is the current situation bungling? 

 

As I see it they ask for designs to be submitted, which they were. Then subsequently they decided to remove one design from their requirements. 

 

Has anyone offered for sale a Boris toilet brush?

Edited April 13, 2020 by VocalNeal

[sandyf]

3 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

^ Why is the current situation bungling? 

 

As I see it they ask for designs to be submitted, which they were. Then subsequently they decided to remove one design from their requirements. 

Don't you think the design should have been seen as fit for purpose before placing an order.

Highly likely that placing the order was nothing more than a move to try and offset criticism. Get a few more designs, place a few more orders, knock one off and you are seen to be doing something.

[overherebc]

Seems to an unfortunate name.

Remember Blue Streak???

[Thingamabob]

3 hours ago, JAG said:

Have you any proof or evidence that such political beliefs were behind any decisions to make such procurement arrangements?

 

You see, the last twelve months or so on this forum suggest that your views on just about any matter are also driven by your somewhat trenchant political beliefs.

 

On occasions I may agree with you, more often I don't, but that doesn't make me, or anyone else who disagrees with your views an idiot.

Well said. 

 

[stevenl]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

Don't you think the design should have been seen as fit for purpose before placing an order.

Highly likely that placing the order was nothing more than a move to try and offset criticism. Get a few more designs, place a few more orders, knock one off and you are seen to be doing something.

I think first order was a panic order, without knowing future, and possibly even point in time, needs.

 

Now with a better overview of the situation it is easier to assess present and future needs.

[Surelynot]

6 minutes ago, stevenl said:

I think first order was a panic order, without knowing future, and possibly even point in time, needs.

 

Now with a better overview of the situation it is easier to assess present and future needs.

Yes must have been in a panic as they only had 3 months to gear up for this. Let's not forget the Pandemic Exercise report also clearly stated action was required a year before this pandemic.

[sawadee1947]

Because of Bojo's mismanagement many more people will die. 

[yuyiinthesky]

They might see similar problems like in New York, where 80% of the covid 19 patients put on ventilators died, raising the suspicion that the ventilators they used are not helping but making it worse:

https://apnews.com/8ccd325c2be9bf454c2128dcb7bd616d

 

Quote

NEW YORK (AP) — As health officials around the world push to get more ventilators to treat coronavirus patients, some doctors are moving away from using the breathing machines when they can.

The reason: Some hospitals have reported unusually high death rates for coronavirus patients on ventilators, and some doctors worry that the machines could be harming certain patients.

 

Quote

Mechanical ventilators push oxygen into patients whose lungs are failing. Using the machines involves sedating a patient and sticking a tube into the throat. Deaths in such sick patients are common, no matter the reason they need the breathing help.

Generally speaking, 40% to 50% of patients with severe respiratory distress die while on ventilators, experts say. But 80% or more of coronavirus patients placed on the machines in New York City have died, state and city officials say.

Quote

But increasingly, physicians are trying other measures first. One is having patients lie in different positions — including on their stomachs — to allow different parts of the lung to aerate better. Another is giving patients more oxygen through nose tubes or other devices. Some doctors are experimenting with adding nitric oxide to the mix, to help improve blood flow and oxygen to the least damaged parts of the lungs.

 

[Surelynot]

2 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

^ Why is the current situation bungling? 

 

As I see it they ask for designs to be submitted, which they were. Then subsequently they decided to remove one design from their requirements. 

 

Has anyone offered for sale a Boris toilet brush?

Ambulances have been told not to respond to care homes. Why? They are prepared to let old people die as there is a severe shortage of PPE, beds, medicines, ventilators.........................The government had months to gear up for this pandemic; that is why the current situation can be summed up as bungling.

[Surelynot]

4 minutes ago, yuyiinthesky said:

They might see similar problems like in New York, where 80% of the covid 19 patients put on ventilators died, raising the suspicion that the ventilators they used are not helping but making it worse:

https://apnews.com/8ccd325c2be9bf454c2128dcb7bd616d

 

 

 

It could simply be that moving them to the ventilator is already too little, too late and under the circumstances possibly not prioritising who stands any chance of survival.

[natway09]

The article sounds as if all this is still in the planning stages.

More importantly how many delivered in the last 2 weeks & how many being used

[Chomper Higgot]

8 minutes ago, yuyiinthesky said:

They might see similar problems like in New York, where 80% of the covid 19 patients put on ventilators died, raising the suspicion that the ventilators they used are not helping but making it worse:

https://apnews.com/8ccd325c2be9bf454c2128dcb7bd616d

 

 

 

Comparing mortality rates from a new disease while on a ventilator with the mortality rates of other diseases being treated on a ventilator does not reveal anything about the ventilators.

 

Different diseases, different outcomes.

[stevenl]

54 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Yes must have been in a panic as they only had 3 months to gear up for this. Let's not forget the Pandemic Exercise report also clearly stated action was required a year before this pandemic.

Agree with you they should have had plenty of time.  But since preparations were not done they did not have plenty of time, hence the panic buying,

Edited April 13, 2020 by stevenl

[Bkk Brian]

5 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Specifications and standards were already in place when this virus hit.

 

What kind of idiocy comes up with the idea of designing and producing something different?

 

It seems the kind of idiots who stand on their political platform of bleating about too many ‘Standards’ and ‘Regulations’, that’s what kind of idiocy.

 

 

 

Strange statement, treatments for many medical problems always have room for improvements, its an evolving science that does not stand still. With a new virus this is especially so. The expense of producing new designs should not be a factor in the possibility of saving more lives. A very good decision made by the government. 

[Surelynot]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

Strange statement, treatments for many medical problems always have room for improvements, its an evolving science that does not stand still. With a new virus this is especially so. The expense of producing new designs should not be a factor in the possibility of saving more lives. A very good decision made by the government. 

So at the very start of a major pandemic that threatens to kill 1000's you think it might be a good idea to try a new design.........really????

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, Surelynot said:

So at the very start of a major pandemic that threatens to kill 1000's you think it might be a good idea to try a new design.........really????

Absolutely, its much the same as the new drugs they are trying. Either that or carry on letting 1000's die with no new interventions that may work. 

[Surelynot]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

Absolutely, its much the same as the new drugs they are trying. Either that or carry on letting 1000's die with no new interventions that may work. 

Do you not think the time scale might be a little tight from drawing board, to mock up, to trails, to proof of design, to manufacturing?.....Whoops pandemic is over.