Are ventilators in hospital really deathtraps?

[silver sea]

Dr Cameron Kyle-Sidell  a young casualty doctor, “has watched over the beds of hundreds of coronavirus patients, and now believes they are dying because of the very treatment that is meant to save them ...”

 

In his youtube video, “ ... which has been viewed around the world, is heralding are-think concerning the treatment of severe cases of Covid-19. In particular, experts are now asking whether the best way of saving patients might be to saturate their blood with oxygen delivered through a mask without using a ventilator. 
 

This is the approach reportedly used during Boris Johnson's fight for life against the virus at London's St Thomas' Hospital intensive care unit. Before the pandemic took hold, Kyle-Sidell's theory might have been dismissed as maverick.”

 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8230775/Is-proof-live-saving-ventilators-actually-deathtraps.html
 

 

Edited April 18, 2020 by silver sea

[thaibeachlovers]

Obviously I can't say if he is right or not, but it does seem that many that were on a ventilator are impaired because of the treatment.

No doubt many experts will be examining this theory among many afterwards.

[mauGR1]

About 2 weeks ago i read an interview with an Italian doctor, he was saying that the patients treated with ventilators have a mortality rate of 80%.

Another more technical interview was explaining more in detail why in fact, ventilators do damage the lungs.

Of course, i'm no expert, but those ventilators seem to be a bit suspicious.

[mauGR1]

Oh, and this is a post from another thread:

 

"Only 2,855 ventilators are actually available for use now, according to WHO Thailand.

 

And according to Dr Boon there's only 200 of the best type ventilators that actually trap the air without spreading the virus in the room, most of these are currently in use."

 

So there may be ventilators "who spread the virus in the room".. Amazing !

[Sheryl]

Ventilators are not used if it is possible to oxygenate by any other means. So it is a nonsensical comparison.

 

Mortlity is always high among people who have to go on mechanical ventilation due to respiratory failure whatever the disease was that cause it, it is very much a last ditch effort.

 

In my  personal experience (not COVID specific) elderly patients in particular seldom make a full recovery after being on a vent.

 

I have the impression that because COVID is a temporary infection, hospitals have tended to use ventilators on everyone who goes into respiratory failure from it and this may well be misguided and worth a re-think when it comes to the very elderly, but not because they would survived otherwise.  If a mask would work they would never have been intubated in the first place, least of all in a context where vents are in short supply. Rather, because it may be a waste of resources (not just the machines but also intensive nursing care, ICU bed etc) that serves only to prolong death and requires a medically induced coma that deprives people of time to say their good byes etc.

 

They need to do some analysis of long term outcomes based on patient age

[TheDark]

I'm gonna have too many questions, I just wish to learn some more, sorry. But I hope Sheryl and other medical professionals could give some light. 

 

Can respiration be temporarily, say for few weeks, be fully circumvented by taking patient's blood out, physically saturate the blood with required amount of oxygen and then pump it back to the patient? Does 02 bind with hemoglobin when it's done physically mixing blood with 02?

 

Would this cause lungs to collapse / malfunction? Is it possible to restart the lungs / respiratory system afterwards?

 

 

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, TheDark said:

I'm gonna have too many questions, I just wish to learn some more, sorry. But I hope Sheryl and other medical professionals could give some light. 

 

Can respiration be temporarily, say for few weeks, be fully circumvented by taking patient's blood out, physically saturate the blood with required amount of oxygen and then pump it back to the patient? Does 02 bind with hemoglobin when it's done physically mixing blood with 02?

 

Would this cause lungs to collapse / malfunction? Is it possible to restart the lungs / respiratory system afterwards?

 

 

Ye, this can be done with something called ECHMO. Similiar to the heart/lung bypass machine used for open heart surgery.

 

These machines are in short supply, their use is highly complex an staff intensive and there are many serious potential complications from their use, including stroke. They are therefore not normally used in patients in respiratory failure but they are used sometimes in patients who  seem to have better than average potential for survival. Including some COVID cases.

[Henryford]

Hospitals are death traps. More likely to catch the virus and die than if you stayed at home.

[TheDark]

6 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Ye, this can be done with something called ECHMO. Similiar to the heart/lung bypass machine used for open heart surgery.

 

These machines are in short supply, their use is highly complex an staff intensive and there are many serious potential complications from their use, including stroke. They are therefore not normally used in patients in respiratory failure but they are used sometimes in patients who  seem to have better than average potential for survival. Including some COVID cases.

Thanks!

 

One good point of these type of special events is that it forces people to think out of the box and possibly find new solutions, even previously existing problems and diseases. 

 

Here is an illustration of the ECHMO machine.