"No evidence" that recovered COVID-19 patients cannot be reinfected: WHO

[Chomper Higgot]

48 minutes ago, phantomfiddler said:

Is it my imagination, or is this beginning to sound just like the good old flu that we have grown to love, and definitely tolerate, over the past several decades ?

Erm no, not at all.

[Chomper Higgot]

13 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

and of course, they have not produced a vaccine for either Malaria, a massive killer, or Dengue. 

But... But.... But..... whataboutary.

[DrTuner]

No evidence either way. Obviously if you want to test if antibodies give immunity for, say, three months, you have to have a guinea pig and wait three months to try to re-infect.

 

We'll need a year or more to get some meaningful data.

Edited April 26, 2020 by DrTuner

[DrTuner]

58 minutes ago, phantomfiddler said:

Is it my imagination, or is this beginning to sound just like the good old flu that we have grown to love, and definitely tolerate, over the past several decades ?

If you mean the a flu like H1N1 in it's early stages, yeah sure. That's the point, "early stages". Even if mortality is same, you are more likely to get it right now, because there's no herd immunity or vaccine. In a few decades you might have "learned to love" COVID-19 because the people around you that are immune protect you.

 

 

Don't end up in the part over the line in the red. Stay home, stay safe.

Edited April 26, 2020 by DrTuner

[tgw]

17 hours ago, watthong said:

Sorry I was going to say something that would probably get me another ban... just caught myself in time.

even Voltaire would not be able to help here.

[seancbk]

18 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

and of course, they have not produced a vaccine for either Malaria, a massive killer, or Dengue. 

 

 We might end up living in a world where we all wear respirators and face shields, carry some from of hand sanitizer all the time and use it after touching anything; and during viral season for several months of the year borders close and people have to take large doses of anti-viral drugs to try and ensure they don't get infected.

Also don't forget since the outbreak of the original SARS-CoV in Hong Kong in 2003 (revised death rate 15% and 50% for people over 64), we have also seen MERS-CoV in 2012 with a death rate of 34% 

SARS-CoV-2  is the third coronavirus to affect humans in 17 years, but for sure won't be the last. 

My money is on MERS-CoV-2 appearing in the next 6 or so, or possibly it will be something as yet unseen. 

Either way, I fully expect to be alive when the big one hits (big as in whole families dying in the homes).  

 

[lkv]

18 hours ago, Pilotman said:

I am not sure of the biology here, but if you can get the virus twice or more, how can a vaccine possibly work? Vaccines work by stimulating the production of antibodies to the virus, just as if you had caught the virus itself.   if the antibodies do not protect you from re infection, neither will a vaccine? 

This is correct. A vaccine does not protect you from infection with the virus.

 

Same like with the vaccine for seasonal flu. You would still test positive for the virus but develop a very mild version of the illness, or be asymptomatic.

 

But you would still likely test positive.

 

This is what a vaccine does.

 

Just like the other vaccines, many people will not do one. I have never done the annual flu vaccine in my life and i'm in my late 30s.

Edited April 26, 2020 by lkv

[DrTuner]

5 minutes ago, seancbk said:

My money is on MERS-CoV-2 appearing in the next 6 or so, or possibly it will be something as yet unseen. 

I think it'll be SARS-CoV-3, as they are very likely still messing with bats in labs. There will be one for sure and the likeliest source is the usual one, China.

Edited April 26, 2020 by DrTuner

[Sheryl]

Quite a few posters appear unable to understand the relevant wording.

 

"No evidence at this time of X"  does not remotely mean "X is not the case/doesn't happen".

 

It did not mean that back in January regarding human to human transmission and it does not mean that now regarding immunity in people with antibodies.

 

All that scientists   can do is report based on evidence available at the time and it is incumbant on them to use precise wording that indicates the limits and constraints of available information. They do so, and the nuances are crystal clear to anyone with a medical or scientific background,  but unfortunately often hard  for  lay people to grasp...and people are understandably eager for definitives, which are simply not possible to provide yet.

 

Regarding the antibodies,  I think what spurred that announcement was concern that countries are rushing into measures before there is enough science to ensure the measures are valid   ("immunity passports" and the like). Especially since there are as yet not well understood reports of people who clinically recovered and have antibodies later being found to be shedding  the virus...something like 10% incidence of this in Wuhan If I recall correctly.

 

Certainly surveys of the prevalence of antibodies in a population (if done with accuracy and statistically representative of the population as a whole) gives an indication of how susceptible the population as a whole is at this point in time; we do not yet have any way of knowing how long lasting that will prove to be.

 

But applying the results of antibody testing to individuals in the sense of telling them (and others) that they are immune and do not need to take precautions, can freely come into contact with infected people etc, even selecting them to care for infected people, is very problematic and more than the science can as yet support, and the consequences of being wrong could be very serious indeed. So better to wait until there is more information.

[Pilotman]

18 minutes ago, seancbk said:

 

 We might end up living in a world where we all wear respirators and face shields, carry some from of hand sanitizer all the time and use it after touching anything; and during viral season for several months of the year borders close and people have to take large doses of anti-viral drugs to try and ensure they don't get infected.

Also don't forget since the outbreak of the original SARS-CoV in Hong Kong in 2003 (revised death rate 15% and 50% for people over 64), we have also seen MERS-CoV in 2012 with a death rate of 34% 

SARS-CoV-2  is the third coronavirus to affect humans in 17 years, but for sure won't be the last. 

My money is on MERS-CoV-2 appearing in the next 6 or so, or possibly it will be something as yet unseen. 

Either way, I fully expect to be alive when the big one hits (big as in whole families dying in the homes).  

 

Well thank goodness I am as old as I am.  I'm not at all sure that I want to live in such a World. 

[blackcab]

Off topic posts have been removed.

[DrTuner]

18 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

Well thank goodness I am as old as I am.  I'm not at all sure that I want to live in such a World. 

One gets used to a lot of things. People got used to living in tiny concrete cubes after roaming free on the plains and they weren't even rounded up by the police or anything.

[Paradise Pete]

20 hours ago, Pilotman said:

I am not sure of the biology here, but if you can get the virus twice or more, how can a vaccine possibly work? Vaccines work by stimulating the production of antibodies to the virus, just as if you had caught the virus itself.   if the antibodies do not protect you from re infection, neither will a vaccine? 

You are right, and WHO will almost certainly be hedging this statement in the days to come. Generally speaking, when a person recovers from a virus it's because their body figured out how to kill it off. And not only will there be antibodies left, there will also be another type of cell present that contains the instructions for creating more of those same antibodies. So if there's a new infection detected the immune system has a huge head start and will fight it off easily.

 

Here's a good article on it.

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by Paradise Pete
added link

[Krataiboy]

16 hours ago, ChouDoufu said:

the concern is that a "certificate of immunity" will allow holders to bypass health measures meant to prevent spread of the virus.

 

It will also, of course, mean fewer customers for Bill Gates' planned COVID 19 vaccine. Big-hearted Bill, the WHO's biggest donor to the tune of 327 million dollars, has a fortune riding on seven factories to churn out shots he wants made mandatory for every man, woman and child on the planet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tlock]

3 hours ago, seancbk said:

 

 We might end up living in a world where we all wear respirators and face shields, carry some from of hand sanitizer all the time and use it after touching anything; and during viral season for several months of the year borders close and people have to take large doses of anti-viral drugs to try and ensure they don't get infected.

Also don't forget since the outbreak of the original SARS-CoV in Hong Kong in 2003 (revised death rate 15% and 50% for people over 64), we have also seen MERS-CoV in 2012 with a death rate of 34% 

SARS-CoV-2  is the third coronavirus to affect humans in 17 years, but for sure won't be the last. 

My money is on MERS-CoV-2 appearing in the next 6 or so, or possibly it will be something as yet unseen. 

Either way, I fully expect to be alive when the big one hits (big as in whole families dying in the homes).  

 

 

I think it may end up being a case of the boy who cried wolf.  when we DO get a virus worth shutting down the world for, they will have already blown their load on this one and lost all credibility.

 

[Krataiboy]

4 hours ago, seancbk said:

 

 We might end up living in a world where we all wear respirators and face shields, carry some from of hand sanitizer all the time and use it after touching anything; and during viral season for several months of the year borders close and people have to take large doses of anti-viral drugs to try and ensure they don't get infected.

Also don't forget since the outbreak of the original SARS-CoV in Hong Kong in 2003 (revised death rate 15% and 50% for people over 64), we have also seen MERS-CoV in 2012 with a death rate of 34% 

SARS-CoV-2  is the third coronavirus to affect humans in 17 years, but for sure won't be the last. 

My money is on MERS-CoV-2 appearing in the next 6 or so, or possibly it will be something as yet unseen. 

Either way, I fully expect to be alive when the big one hits (big as in whole families dying in the homes).  

 

Blimey! Shades of Mona Lott, the Cockney housekeeper in the Tommy Handley wartime radio show, ITMA (picture below). Her catch-phrase was, "It's bein' so cheerful what keeps me goin'!"

 

[sucit]

A new lack of funding is affecting their research. 

 

If the who says it, the opposite is probably true. 

[placnx]

12 hours ago, rabas said:

Let us remove the mask from this piece of disinformation.

 

Insinuation: WHO didn't say there was no evidence of H2H, must be twitter twaat.

 

FALSE: From WHO's own website January 12:

 

"The evidence is highly suggestive that the outbreak is associated with exposures in one seafood market in Wuhan. The market was closed on 1 January 2020. At this stage, there is no infection among healthcare workers, and no clear evidence of human to human transmission.  "

 

Said the WHO, on their official website, for the entire world to read.

 

Also note the deception about the seafood market, we now know the Chinese authorities knew of many cases pre-dating the food market by up to 1.5 months.

 

Also, poster "holy cow cm" noted in post #13 that it was a seafood market. I have read that the the bats carrying this virus are small, not the popular larger fruit bats sold in wet markets.

 

Presumably biological warfare (defense) labs will be doing a thorough investigation of this "natural" virus. It seems to be remarkably useful for dismantling the defenses of an island. All that's needed is a vaccine to finish the takeover. 

[DavisH]

5 hours ago, Pilotman said:

and of course, they have not produced a vaccine for either Malaria, a massive killer, or Dengue. 

Malaria is caused by a parasite. There is a new vaccine for dengue, but it has its limitations in its usage. 

[elliss]

2 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

 

It will also, of course, mean fewer customers for Bill Gates' planned COVID 19 vaccine. Big-hearted Bill, the WHO's biggest donor to the tune of 327 million dollars, has a fortune riding on seven factories to churn out shots he wants made mandatory for every man, woman and child on the planet.

 

 My mates brother , reckons this super virus , was created  in a laboratory .

  Then dumped in a strategic location.

  The rest is just pandemic panic..

  

 

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by elliss

[IAMHERE]

Makes me wonder if Bats & Pangoins get reinfected?  Shouldn't most all those Bats have Covid-19, they spend hours sleeping very close to one another. 

[sanemax]

10 minutes ago, IAMHERE said:

Makes me wonder if Bats & Pangoins get reinfected?  Shouldn't most all those Bats have Covid-19, they spend hours sleeping very close to one another. 

The Corvid virus isnt harmful to bats 

[Cryingdick]

6 hours ago, seancbk said:

 

 We might end up living in a world where we all wear respirators and face shields, carry some from of hand sanitizer all the time and use it after touching anything; and during viral season for several months of the year borders close and people have to take large doses of anti-viral drugs to try and ensure they don't get infected.

Also don't forget since the outbreak of the original SARS-CoV in Hong Kong in 2003 (revised death rate 15% and 50% for people over 64), we have also seen MERS-CoV in 2012 with a death rate of 34% 

SARS-CoV-2  is the third coronavirus to affect humans in 17 years, but for sure won't be the last. 

My money is on MERS-CoV-2 appearing in the next 6 or so, or possibly it will be something as yet unseen. 

Either way, I fully expect to be alive when the big one hits (big as in whole families dying in the homes).  

 

 

That won't happen, at least here anyway. 90% of people aren't wearing masks. Went to Lowes yesterday and they had the SD marks on the floor. However that makes lines long and people have to go between the people in line to get around. Useless exercise in futility. If the virus hangs in the air it is completely pointless. 

 

Take a crowded city like NYC you will have to assign days people go out to make it work. Something like snow plowing even street odd street system. You have more chance of getting it in some crowded apartment that is like a cruise ship than going out in my opinion. In fact people are getting less healthy staying in. I would not hesitate to go to a beach in Florida. Less dangerous than the grocery store.

 

Food production is increasingly becoming constrained. No more government checks are coming. Tick tock tick tock. 

 

The attitude in the area I live seems to be that we are going to leave free or die. If no herd immunity ever happens it's a world no longer worth living in anyway. As grim as all that is I think it will be okay and am happy and just go on with life. I am guessing many people will leave the cities if the employment level stays how it is.

 

Also for the relative safety in living in lower density areas. I am looking for signs that say "No Vagrancy" to donate to my nearest town. Great Depression style.

 

In Michigan they are forbidding people from going to their lake cabins and cabins in the remote woods. Dumb policy. They should say go there and stay there but get your supplies and gas where you are. Don't stop off at gas stations just to pee and buy a coke. 

 

 

 

 

[Estrada]

Of course anyone can get reinfected, it is obvious and normal. If the virus or virons are in the air you breathe, you can get reinfected. The point is that it takes time for the antibodies to discover the invasion and track down the individual viruses. This is why when you get reinfected with the common cold it takes a few hours of feeling a cold is coming until the immune system's antigens from a previous infection kick in and start fighting the infection. Until there is herd immunity, people will be reinfected. Fortunately the W.H.O clarified their statement, the day after, saying that they meant that there is no evidence of immunity if you have antibodies, because that is always what they say prior to tests and research having confirmed that there is immunity. They do expect people with immunity to be immune for a time. The period of immunity can only be established with time.

[cornishcarlos]

10 hours ago, DavisH said:

There is a new vaccine for dengue, but it has its limitations in its usage.

 

The main limitation being, previous infection with Dengue !! Kind of defeats the purpose...

 

[3NUMBAS]

yep its like the common cold it can come  back again and again

[UbonThani]

On 4/26/2020 at 12:05 AM, ukrules said:

So now we have the WHO telling us that there's no evidence our immune systems work.

 

The reason most people didn't die and went on to produce detectable antibodies is because the immune system beat the virus, if it didn't then they would all have died.

 

I think this is the WHO railing against any kind of 'immunity id' - sounds political.

 

I'd like to see the antibody test results on the Chinese population, I'm sure many governments of the world would also like to see this, especially if there are big differences between the 'strains' released into different populations.

 

The Chinese will beHtested one way or another, right now I suspect it will be when they enter foreign countries.

Who is so corrupt

antibodies build immunity 30 to 90%

so a 2nd case will be milder if at all

 

othwrwise humans were extinct 200000 years ago

[UbonThani]

11 minutes ago, 3NUMBAS said:

yep its like the common cold it can come  back again and again

30 yrs according to some