Our cold water is extremely warm - solutions please?

[Daffy D]

I have same problem with hot water from the tank at this time of year.

 

My tank and pump are about 8mts away from the house with the pipes running in the ground under a small lawn (fake grass) that we have between the tank and the house.

 

In the hot weather the ground keeps the water in the under ground pipe cool and so first one in gets a short cool shower, till the water in the below ground section is used up, then straight back to the full heat of tank water.

 

This temperature constancy of the water in the underground pipe works also in the cold weather where the water in the pipe is not as cold as in the tank that's out in the cold night air. So that saves a bit on shower heating, at least for the first few moments if you are the first on in.

 

If I had thought about this thermal heat exchange process at the time I would have done a bit of forward planning to take advantage of it.

 

But as they say in the movies "It is what it is" So to take advantage of this thermal heat exchange I'm thinking of replacing the existing pipe with a large roll of 1in plastic water pipe below ground in the between the the tank and the house, either in a coil or zig-zag, to optimize heat transfer as being the easiest solution without re-building the whole set up. 

 

Anyway that's a project for sometime in the future. 

 

  

 

 

[Relocated]

5 hours ago, CGW said:

This time of year I always end up questioning the wisdom of painting Stainless tank Matt black? ????

Majority of the year never think about it!

I am always questioning why Africans' skin is black and Scandinavians' is white.

[Moonlover]

5 hours ago, anterian said:

|I find this thread strange, the one thing I like about the hot season is I get a nice warm shower, I definitely would not like an English water cold shower.

I love cold showers. I can't for this hot season to end. 

[Yellowtail]

You could build a small cooling tower or reconfigure an evaporative cooler to work as such. Just a fan and a small recirculating pump so would not use much power. Might be able to get by without a fan with outside decent media area.

 

Putting the media on the air-in side of a condensing unit would eliminate the need for a fan and could improve the efficiency of your AC.

 

As Crossy indicated, an evaporator coil in the tank would likely be the easiest 

 

 

[bodga]

I  have a  deepwater  well 60m that leads to a pressure  tank of 300  litres at the well head inside  a 2m2 building and then that pipework  runs  underground 1  metre deep over 80 metres  long, that keeps  it  cooler.

[JimShortz]

23 hours ago, Daffy D said:

I have same problem with hot water from the tank at this time of year.

 

My tank and pump are about 8mts away from the house with the pipes running in the ground under a small lawn (fake grass) that we have between the tank and the house.

 

In the hot weather the ground keeps the water in the under ground pipe cool and so first one in gets a short cool shower, till the water in the below ground section is used up, then straight back to the full heat of tank water.

 

This temperature constancy of the water in the underground pipe works also in the cold weather where the water in the pipe is not as cold as in the tank that's out in the cold night air. So that saves a bit on shower heating, at least for the first few moments if you are the first on in.

 

If I had thought about this thermal heat exchange process at the time I would have done a bit of forward planning to take advantage of it.

 

But as they say in the movies "It is what it is" So to take advantage of this thermal heat exchange I'm thinking of replacing the existing pipe with a large roll of 1in plastic water pipe below ground in the between the the tank and the house, either in a coil or zig-zag, to optimize heat transfer as being the easiest solution without re-building the whole set up. 

 

Anyway that's a project for sometime in the future. 

 

  

 

 

Now that, sir, is a fine plan, but that pipe would be pressurised by the pump. Is flexible pipe up to this? Alternatively, it wouldn't be hard to bury a matrix of 1" blue plastic. An interesting thought...  ????

[lopburi3]

[Lacessit]

On 5/10/2020 at 2:35 PM, RichCor said:

(3) Evaporative cooling, letting small amounts of water pour down the outside of the tanks.  

 

. 

 

Agree. Cover the exterior of the tanks with sacking, then have a slow leak of water over the sacking. Use a fan blowing over the sacking if you want the water even cooler.

Same principle as the canvas water bags one sees everywhere in outback Australia hanging off the front bullbars of vehicles. Cool water when it's 42 degrees C in the shade.

Edited May 11, 2020 by Lacessit

[RichCor]

29 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

So THAT's where the ice caps have been disappearing off to, it's been lopburi3 all this time!!!

[Daffy D]

1 hour ago, JimShortz said:

Now that, sir, is a fine plan, but that pipe would be pressurised by the pump. Is flexible pipe up to this? Alternatively, it wouldn't be hard to bury a matrix of 1" blue plastic. An interesting thought...

I've not actually gone into the fine detail yet, but I was thinking about that black plastic stuff that come in rolls. 

 

A single roll of pipe without any joints underground would be the plan so avoiding any leaks involving having to dig up the "lawn" again.

 

Yes the pipe would be pressurised but I assume those rolls of black pipe could handle it. 

[Daffy D]

Something like this, though I wouldn't have the energy to dig that deep 

 

Then here's an Idea for thermal AC:-

 

 

[Andrew Dwyer]

My solution one year ago ( see post #4 with a link to my thread ) was to cover the tank with the silver double sided insulation.

I convinced myself that it helped and the water was cooler but never actually checked temperature, shortly after the rains came and it all became a little irrelevant. I did replace the insulation a couple of times when it became tatty ( once a stray cat decided to use it as a scratching post !! ).

 

Now , I use the water from the tank for an early morning shower and have a water bucket in another bathroom for an evening shower or when I want to cool off during the day.

[cliveshep]

Some half-way interesting ideas to ponder. A small sealed tank between pump and house could work IF an evaporator coil could be fitted into it - the set-up here has been extensively modified at least twice, I moved the tanks and pump from where I first installed them 4 years ago but because all the pipe-work from street main to tanks with change-over valve to house (in case the pump failed) and the main feed pipes to the house are all buried and concreted in/tiled over with the pipes to the new tank position measured and placed as a carcass and concreted/tiled over before the tanks were moved across what is now the new room it does not lend itself to much serious modification. 

 

But I can see a sealed tank in stainless steel with a screwed down lid over a gasket with a 1" inlet and 1" outlet at diagonally opposite corners, and a copper coil inside going to an air-con pump and condenser might serve but I suspect as a purpose made thing would work out very expensive. 

 

The other thing is there is no one place apart from down in the extension by the pump and tanks where pipes to the whole house are accessible, I made sure all pipework was carefully tested then buried and tiled over to kitchen and all 4 bathrooms, so it all looks neat but does not lend itself to much alteration.

 

I'm thinking that an earlier suggestion of a wall-mounted fan to make us FEEL cool might be the easiest solution for the 3 hot months. I do not want to dig up floors or cut down tiling bearing in mind matching tiles could well be impossible if they are no longer made. Looks like there might well be no economical solution apart from the fan or a dustbin and scoop plus a bag of ice!

[frantick]

I don't get cold showers. When you take a cold/ambient shower in this hot humid climate you come out all hot and sweaty even after drying off. If you take a slightly hot shower, heater assisted, the natural evaporative effect dries and cools you down. A much more refreshing feeling, IMO of course.

[thailand49]

The tanks aren't the problem with it being so hot the water is being heated simple from the ground where the pipes are located.  Your systems sound like what I have but larger and both tanks are in the sun. This time of the year I and my family just turn off the water heater.  My apartment all locals renting no water heater no tanks water being deliver by City pipes the water comes in warm this time of the year.

[SAFETY FIRST]

You have to bury your tanks.

Serve 2 purposes.

1. keeps water cool

2. you always have your tank filled when water pressure is very low.

Where I live my neighbours with above ground tanks are always getting the water truck to fill their tanks, mine always fills when pressure is very low.

[lopburi3]

35 minutes ago, thailand49 said:

The tanks aren't the problem with it being so hot the water is being heated simple from the ground where the pipes are located.

The water in tanks is indeed heated (in shade to daytime temps (about 38C) - in sun to much more).  The amount in pipes in only a few seconds and many of us do not even have pipes in ground.

 

25 minutes ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

You have to bury your tanks.

Serve 2 purposes.

Chance for more issues, very hard to repair, very hard to keep clean (it does flood here) and if pipe has no pressure who knows what is leaching in, have to have foot valve working or lose pump prime.   But yes it may be a bit cooler in the hot weather months (I have not found warm water to be objectionable for anything but drinking and use cooler for that).

[Mama Noodle]

52 minutes ago, thailand49 said:

The tanks aren't the problem with it being so hot the water is being heated simple from the ground where the pipes are located.

 

Underground temps are consistently cooler than surface temps and thats a global phenomenon due to how the heat from the earths core radiate outward. Couple feet below the surface the temps are constant year round. 

 

I can state unequivocally that my hot-ass water is due to my stainless tank being exposed to about 4 hours of direct sunlight per day, combined with daytime temps being 40C. 

 

As soon as it rains the tank cools off and water is cool again. 

 

I need to build a shelter for the tank but im too lazy. 

[5633572526]

Insulate the tanks and add a roof vent on the building to let the hot air escape and improve air flow.

[SAFETY FIRST]

6 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

38 minutes ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

You have to bury your tanks.

Serve 2 purposes.

Chance for more issues, very hard to repair, very hard to keep clean (it does flood here) and if pipe has no pressure who knows what is leaching in, have to have foot valve working or lose pump prime.   But yes it may be a bit cooler in the hot weather months (I have not found warm water to be objectionable for anything but drinking and use cooler for that).

Ok, lots of excuses here.

 

1. I've had my tank in the ground for 15 years never had to repair

.......buy good quality tank

2. Do not build in a flood zone

..........pay a little extra for a land plot that doesn't flood.

3. Cheap pump

....buy a Mitsubishi, extremely good pump

 

[boonchu]

I have installed wall fans in all our bathrooms. Super effective and certainly a cheap safe option.

[lopburi3]

3 minutes ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

Ok, lots of excuses here.

Glad you have had good luck as that is also a large factor for anything.

1.  Good quality tank is often not an option or obvious and most people buy homes already built.

2.  Do not believe there is anywhere in tropics that is not a flood zone during heavy rains - that is why homes were always above ground level.

3.  Mitsubishi is not my idea of best pump - tanks have very short life due to rust and pressure is obvious shallow well range.  Doubt they are better than others of same class but admit used them for 30 years until change to Grundfos which for us provides normal US type water pressure and has been very reliable.  

[Cricky]

53 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Glad you have had good luck as that is also a large factor for anything.

1.  Good quality tank is often not an option or obvious and most people buy homes already built.

2.  Do not believe there is anywhere in tropics that is not a flood zone during heavy rains - that is why homes were always above ground level.

3.  Mitsubishi is not my idea of best pump - tanks have very short life due to rust and pressure is obvious shallow well range.  Doubt they are better than others of same class but admit used them for 30 years until change to Grundfos which for us provides normal US type water pressure and has been very reliable.  

Houses in Thailand are not sold with water tanks, you fit your self after purchase, very few housing developers offer tanks already installed. 

 

In a proper housing development the houses are built up, higher so flooding is not an issue. 

 

Anyway, you're a glass half empty guy, good luck to you. 

 

Edited May 13, 2020 by VYCM

[Mama Noodle]

2 minutes ago, VYCM said:

Houses in Thailand are not sold with water tanks, you fit your self after purchase, very few housing developers offer tanks already installed. 

 

I have seen a bunch for sale with tank systems installed, especially in areas with drought problems. Hard to sell a house with intermittent water supply shortages. 

[Cricky]

8 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

I have seen a bunch for sale with tank systems installed, especially in areas with drought problems. Hard to sell a house with intermittent water supply shortages. 

Yep, almost impossible to sell without a tank, this is why people install them,it's the first item I had fitted before moving in. 

 

And yes you will find new houses being sold from developers but these are in proper developments where houses flooding is not an issue. 

[moe666]

Try a fan blowing on the tanks maybe cool them a bit. In 1969 stationed aboard a Destroyer in the South China Sea. Aboard ship the fresh water holding tanks where located in the boiler room where I worked. The outside ocean water temp was around 80 degrees and the boilerroom ran a good 140 degreesf. Taking a shower was a trying event as the cold water on ocassion could scald your skin. It was actually safer to cut on the hot water as it had been in a seperate tank that actually cooled down a bit unless everyone was taking a shower.

[Elkski]

So do you have only 1 valve In Shower or do you have point of use  hot water heaters?  

So you cant make any changes  from the tanks to the house?  How much room is spare in the tank room?  Do you have a 1500 watt spare power in tank room?  Any way to run low voltage control  cables from house to tank room?  What  temperature would you want  for your cool shower?  Would you want  it cool from start to finish?

Where there is a will  we can do this.  

I have never had to hot of a shower in Thailand .  Tried the bucket thing.  Did have some cool showers  in Chiang Rai mountains in Jan.  I need hot water  to feel clean and to be able  to shave. 

[digger70]

Our cold water is extremely warm - solutions please? 

 

I would get in touch with a Fridge/Air Conditioner Mechanic and toy with a thought to put a Refrigerator Coil/Unit In the Water tank With a Thermostat to set the Temp at say 25 Deg C or whatever Temp you want. It Can Be Done.   

[SAFETY FIRST]

1 hour ago, lopburi3 said:

Glad you have had good luck as that is also a large factor for anything.

1.  Good quality tank is often not an option or obvious and most people buy homes already built.

2.  Do not believe there is anywhere in tropics that is not a flood zone during heavy rains - that is why homes were always above ground level.

3.  Mitsubishi is not my idea of best pump - tanks have very short life due to rust and pressure is obvious shallow well range.  Doubt they are better than others of same class but admit used them for 30 years until change to Grundfos which for us provides normal US type water pressure and has been very reliable.  

If i bought a house with a poor quality tank fitted id replace it with a good quality tank.

 

Youll find Mitsubishi pumps are up there with the best in Thailand. Very strong and reliable. Parts are inexpensive.

 

[lopburi3]

3 minutes ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

If i bought a house with a poor quality tank fitted id replace it with a good quality tank.

 

Youll find Mitsubishi pumps are up there with the best in Thailand. Very strong and reliable. Parts are inexpensive.

 

And how would we know a berried tank is good or not?  It might not be an easy job to replace.  Not a fan but to each his own.  To me much better to have a tank I can see a leak out than a tank that may be hiding a leak into.

 

Actually we have owned many Mitsubishi pumps during our 45 years of having a home here and as said all failed on a regular basis - yes normally not hard or expensive to fix but as they did not supply the water pressure we wanted looked elsewhere when time to upgrade water pipes arrived.