Coronavirus to leave a legacy of unprecedented global debt

[Heppinger]

1 minute ago, UbonThani said:

$26 vegan burgers

Makes me want to break out in National Anthem

[thaibeachlovers]

22 minutes ago, Heppinger said:

You may need to add the definition of "referendum" as most people will have never heard this term before.

I'm sure they can look it up on their phones which I'm informed are smart, though some may be too ignorant to know what google is despite living on line.

[thaibeachlovers]

18 minutes ago, Heppinger said:

Don't worry. Australia's half baked millennials are busy brainstorming more sustainable snacks in the form of grass hoppers and roaches.

Nothing wrong with that. Thai citizens are familiar with eating insects. They even enjoy eating them from what I've seen.

Far as I know they don't eat roaches, even though what they do eat look like roaches to me.

[Heppinger]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Nothing wrong with that. Thai citizens are familiar with eating insects. They even enjoy eating them from what I've seen.

Far as I know they don't eat roaches, even though what they do eat look like roaches to me.

Not saying there is anything wrong with cultures that do eat insects.  My son catches insects for his Grandmother to cook.  I eat them from time to time.  I have also eaten rat meat as my wife's uncle was so sure i wouldn't. Western culture was forged through the blood sweat and tears of our forefathers who would want us to eat a scotch fillet steak once a week.

[hotchilli]

On 5/15/2020 at 6:45 AM, webfact said:

Coronavirus to leave a legacy of unprecedented global debt

Maybe it's a warning to countries around the world that being "global" might not be the best thing?

We've outgrown ourselves, anything & everything can be bought and delivered around the world in less than 24 hours... and it's growing exponentially, look at the China "silk road" pushing northwest from it's centre, and it's operations in Asia.

Maybe it's time to re-think and re-wind to local markets... as we've seen commodities can be transported around the world, as can infections!

 

[AgMech Cowboy]

On 5/15/2020 at 6:45 AM, webfact said:

legacy of unprecedented global debt

and Poverty caused by the lockdown reactions and their length.

[AgMech Cowboy]

On 5/15/2020 at 9:25 AM, nausea said:

my pension rises by inflation

which is fine until they don't have the money to do that or to even pay a pension, because they're broke.  Don't think it can't happen, because it can. Of course, maybe they can borrow enough money from China.

[spidermike007]

Most of this debt will not come from the virus directly, but from the grand experiment in insanity, that the major economies of the world participated in willingly, by shutting down their economies, for the first time in recorded history. Never before has something like this been done, for a dozen good reasons. The repercussions will be felt for years, and who is going to get hit the hardest? The little guy. 

[Heppinger]

5 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Most of this debt will not come from the virus directly, but from the grand experiment in insanity, that the major economies of the world participated in willingly, by shutting down their economies, for the first time in recorded history. Never before has something like this been done, for a dozen good reasons. The repercussions will be felt for years, and who is going to get hit the hardest? The little guy. 

Erase the middle class of Western countries allowing large corporations to acquire the last of the family owned industries such as farming, hospitality and investment properties. Basically the implementation of Communism minus the headaches of mass murder and suppression of historical events. 

Edited May 16, 2020 by Heppinger

[spidermike007]

4 minutes ago, Heppinger said:

Erase the middle class of Western countries allowing large corporations to acquire the last of the family owned industries such as farming, hospitality and investment properties. Basically the implementation of Communism minus the headaches of mass murder and suppression of historical events. 

I think you might be onto something. It does feel like an all too convenient way to create massive consolidation, at bargain prices. I am a small business owner in the US. I cannot get assistance of any kind, even though I am paying full rent on my commercial space, and all the expenses, and we have been closed (the inane lockdown) for months now. Nothing. Only payroll assistance which does not really apply to our operation. Erase the low income folks too. Make their lives infinitely more miserable than they already were. That sounds like America. It has already been happening for 30 plus years now. But, why would all the other major economies of the world, (except for the genius and rebel minds in South Korea and Sweden) go along with this grand experiment in insanity? 

[Lacessit]

IMO the human race is dooming itself. Self-inflicted.

We have climate change. Politicians ignore and decry the scientists who are sounding the alarm. We have coronavirus. Politicians ignore and decry the medical experts who are trying to contain it. The politicians are concerned with the economic ramifications. Am I alone in seeing a pattern here?

I'm reminded of the lyric from the Simon and Garfunkel song, The Sound of Silence. " And the people bowed and prayed, to the neon god they made".

[Heppinger]

1 minute ago, spidermike007 said:

But, why would all the other major economies of the world, (except for the genius and rebel minds in South Korea and Sweden) go along with this grand experiment in insanity? 

Because nations are no more.  WW2 was fought between Globalists and Nationalists.  The other economies of the World go along with this agenda because their Political and Corporate leaders are Globalists, not Nationalists. They care not for Peoples and Nations but for Corporations and Currencies.  Any deviation from this agenda will not be entertained as consequences are severe.  Regarding Sweden and South Korea, i'm not sure what your referring to, number of Covid cases reported maybe?

[spidermike007]

1 minute ago, Heppinger said:

Because nations are no more.  WW2 was fought between Globalists and Nationalists.  The other economies of the World go along with this agenda because their Political and Corporate leaders are Globalists, not Nationalists. They care not for Peoples and Nations but for Corporations and Currencies.  Any deviation from this agenda will not be entertained as consequences are severe.  Regarding Sweden and South Korea, i'm not sure what your referring to, number of Covid cases reported maybe?

No. Those are the only two major nations, that did NOT shut down their economies, and lock down their populations. They were completely independent (very disobedient) and now they are not paying the extremely high price of dramatic increases in debt load, and devastated economies. And in the case of South Korea, due to the very fast response time, they managed to escape with very few deaths. Same with Vietnam. Though they did lock down the nation, they ended up with just a few hundred cases, due to an extremely fast response, very decisive action, and the use of science. The polar opposite of the American model, and essentially the second time the US has been beaten by Vietnam! 

[19DL86]

18 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The UK already did this for their pensioners living in dozens of countries, including Thailand.

Yes you're kinda right, the U.K. State Pension is "locked" at the rate it was when you left the country.  Thereby you don't receive annual increases as a Non Res.

But I think what Natway09 means in the case of Aus and NZ their pensions are withheld if you stay outside the country, similarly to some Scandinavian countries too, I think.  Whereby anyone not residing full-time in their country of origin, then that pension is not payable.

[Heppinger]

1 minute ago, spidermike007 said:

No. Those are the only two major nations, that did NOT shut down their economies, and lock down their populations. They were completely independent (very disobedient) and now they are not paying the extremely high price of dramatic increases in debt load, and devastated economies. And in the case of South Korea, due to the very fast response time, they managed to escape with very few deaths. Same with Vietnam. Though they did lock down the nation, they ended up with just a few hundred cases, due to an extremely fast response, very decisive action, and the use of science. The polar opposite of the American model, and essentially the second time the US has been beaten by Vietnam! 

While they may not have shut down their economies i'm betting their not telling the world the threat of a virus is being used to implement massive social and economic change in the world.  Some Goods and Services need to stay operational im guessing these countries are being used to produce essential goods and/or services to other Countries or even China. Interestingly the ChinaA50 index has not suffered during this economic shutdown.

[brokenbone]

36 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

IMO the human race is dooming itself. Self-inflicted.

We have climate change. Politicians ignore and decry the scientists who are sounding the alarm. We have coronavirus. Politicians ignore and decry the medical experts who are trying to contain it. The politicians are concerned with the economic ramifications. Am I alone in seeing a pattern here?

I'm reminded of the lyric from the Simon and Garfunkel song, The Sound of Silence. " And the people bowed and prayed, to the neon god they made".

ipcc is a political entity and they sound the alarm because if they dont the funding stop

[Henryford]

On 5/15/2020 at 9:25 AM, nausea said:

My guess is the triple lock in the UK will go for a start. Always a stupid idea IMHO; my pension rises by inflation, which is fine by me. The Tories are a bit stuck on this one, like the NHS in now a Sacred Cow, as to a lesser extent are already pared back public services in general, and raising taxes would go against their whole philosophy; be interesting to see how it pans out. In addition, a lot of countries are maxed out, what happens when the next Black Swan event comes along? The obvious solution is to cut back on military spending, a Catch 22 situation, cos that would take a consensus among the big powers to accept the status quo and not pursue their expansionist policies, and we all know, in desparate situations the weakest go to the wall. Anyway, Olivia and Noah may be a minority now, but eventually they're going to be the guys and gals making the decisions, they're not gonna be very happy with this mess they've inherited. Ha!

Agree with most of this. There are lots of things that the UK Government could do (and any sensible person could do). But they probably won't. HS2, Foreign Aid, Trident etc. You could save hundreds of billions without any effect at all. Certainly the triple lock needs to go. Living abroad i don't get any increase anyway.

[Heppinger]

11 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

The polar opposite of the American model, and essentially the second time the US has been beaten by Vietnam! 

HAHA nice.  Remember the "Belt and Road" Initiative links China to the rest of Asia, Europe, Middle East and Oceania.  There are massive Infrastructure projects with some amazing feat's of civil engineering currently taking place and can be seen using Google Earth in particular tunnels through i think it's the Himalayan mountains. America will not have a leadership role in this structure. For the construction of these roads and rail systems to be completed some countries are going to have to keep producing necessary materials.

[spidermike007]

3 minutes ago, Heppinger said:

HAHA nice.  Remember the "Belt and Road" Initiative links China to the rest of Asia, Europe, Middle East and Oceania.  There are massive Infrastructure projects with some amazing feat's of civil engineering currently taking place and can be seen using Google Earth in particular tunnels through i think it's the Himalayan mountains. America will not have a leadership role in this structure. For the construction of these roads and rail systems to be completed some countries are going to have to keep producing necessary materials.

I think it is fairly safe to say, when observing America for the past couple of decades, and especially the past few years, that America will not have a leadership role in the world, in the near future. Gone, baby gone, in terms of influence, respect, and envy. Those days are over. It is a shame that current policy is more or less assuring China's dominance for decades, if not centuries to come. One can only hope the Chinese people have the good sense to oust the heinous Chicom leadership. Otherwise, it is going to be a lowly future for the world. 

[Heppinger]

1 minute ago, spidermike007 said:

I think it is fairly safe to say, when observing America for the past couple of decades, and especially the past few years, that America will not have a leadership role in the world, in the near future. Gone, baby gone, in terms of influence, respect, and envy. Those days are over. It is a shame that current policy is more or less assuring China's dominance for decades, if not centuries to come. One can only hope the Chinese people have the good sense to oust the heinous Chicom leadership. Otherwise, it is going to be a lowly future for the world. 

The founding Fathers and the implementation of the American Constitution laid the foundations for the Greatest Nation on Earth.  During it's foundation the people were warned of the various threats to National Sovereignty, though sadly time and outside subversion took it's toll, and these warnings were ignored. 

 

JFK's speech basically covers it, some extracts:

 

I refer first to the need for far greater public information, and second, to the need for far greater official secrecy. The very word secrecy is repugnant in a free and open society, and we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings. We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweigh the dangers which are cited to justify it. Even today, there is little value in opposing the threat of a closed society by imitating its arbitrary restrictions. Even today there is little value in ensuring the survival of our nation if our traditions do not survive with it. And there is very grave danger that an announced need for increased security will be seized upon by those anxious to expand its meaning to the very limits of official censorship and concealment. That I do not intend to permit to the extent that it’s in my control, and no official of my administration, whether his rank is high or low, civilian or military, should interpret my words here tonight as an excuse to sensor the news, to stifle dissent, to cover up our mistakes, or to withhold from the press and the public the facts they deserve to know.

 

But we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding it’s fear of influence, on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice, on guerrillas by night instead of armies by day. It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific, and political operations. It’s preparations are concealed, not published. It’s mistakes are buried, not headlined. It’s dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned. No rumor is printed. No secret is revealed. It conducts the Cold War in short with a wartime discipline, no democracy would ever hope or wish to match.

[Heppinger]

Take note: The difference between a JFK and Trump speech

how dumbed down we have become

[eyup]

Wow some off track replies here!  I think the original subject was about nation's/global debt wasn't it?

 

Well, as a layman I wish somebody could tell me how these bankrupt nations manage to print more money, increase their national debt by billions (in some case trillions!) and does this debt ever get payed off?

Who do they owe it to? Imaginary people like the EU (which, incidentally has NEVER EVER published any accounts!) or World Bank never seen any accounts for them either!

So, governments can do what they want and rack up imaginary debt which is never repaid. But to me the real problem is the level of personal debt (excluding mortgages) around the world too.

 

The model for the majority of the world is let people buy on credit . That way GDP or economic growth figures are false and inflated but the figures look good! Until of course nobody can afford to buy anything or they finally realise they have to pay off what they have borrowed,  not just the monthly interest , but the PRIMARY amount. they borrowed too!

 

Sub prime in another disguise methinks.

 

That's the next bubble to burst!

 

 

[Heppinger]

2 minutes ago, eyup said:

Wow some off track replies here!  I think the original subject was about nation's/global debt wasn't it?

 

Well, as a layman I wish somebody could tell me how these bankrupt nations manage to print more money, increase their national debt by billions (in some case trillions!) and does this debt ever get payed off?

Who do they owe it to? Imaginary people like the EU (which, incidentally has NEVER EVER published any accounts!) or World Bank never seen any accounts for them either!

So, governments can do what they want and rack up imaginary debt which is never repaid. But to me the real problem is the level of personal debt (excluding mortgages) around the world too.

 

The model for the majority of the world is let people buy on credit . That way GDP or economic growth figures are false and inflated but the figures look good! Until of course nobody can afford to buy anything or they finally realise they have to pay off what they have borrowed,  not just the monthly interest , but the PRIMARY amount. they borrowed too!

 

Sub prime in another disguise methinks.

 

That's the next bubble to burst!

 

 

Most people don't realize but when you apply for a bank loan the bank doesn't transfer physical currency to your account.  The loan is established and the amount you borrowed shows up as that number in your account. Banks only hold a fraction of physical currency against their loans: fractional reserve banking.  Of course your expected to pay this number back with real labor.  It's sad that people get so depressed and even suicidal at the prospect of being unable to pay a bank loan, if only they knew how the system operates. 

[spidermike007]

9 minutes ago, Heppinger said:

The founding Fathers and the implementation of the American Constitution laid the foundations for the Greatest Nation on Earth.  During it's foundation the people were warned of the various threats to National Sovereignty, though sadly time and outside subversion took it's toll, and these warnings were ignored. 

 

JFK's speech basically covers it, some extracts:

 

I refer first to the need for far greater public information, and second, to the need for far greater official secrecy. The very word secrecy is repugnant in a free and open society, and we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings. We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweigh the dangers which are cited to justify it. Even today, there is little value in opposing the threat of a closed society by imitating its arbitrary restrictions. Even today there is little value in ensuring the survival of our nation if our traditions do not survive with it. And there is very grave danger that an announced need for increased security will be seized upon by those anxious to expand its meaning to the very limits of official censorship and concealment. That I do not intend to permit to the extent that it’s in my control, and no official of my administration, whether his rank is high or low, civilian or military, should interpret my words here tonight as an excuse to sensor the news, to stifle dissent, to cover up our mistakes, or to withhold from the press and the public the facts they deserve to know.

 

But we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding it’s fear of influence, on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice, on guerrillas by night instead of armies by day. It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific, and political operations. It’s preparations are concealed, not published. It’s mistakes are buried, not headlined. It’s dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned. No rumor is printed. No secret is revealed. It conducts the Cold War in short with a wartime discipline, no democracy would ever hope or wish to match.

Some great points. And what would be your guess, as to the percentage of the world's population that is even aware of any of this? 5%? Most I talk to, even good friends, and family, seem to not have the slightest clue, that anything exists beyond the "official narrative". Nothing. Even questioning things makes me subversive, paranoid, disloyal, and a conspiracy theorist. It seems there is a whole level of justification and filters, that are built into the system, to prevent people from even questioning what is going on, and why. 

[Heppinger]

5 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Some great points. And what would be your guess, as to the percentage of the world's population that is even aware of any of this? 5%? Most I talk to, even good friends, and family, seem to not have the slightest clue, that anything exists beyond the "official narrative". Nothing. Even questioning things makes me subversive, paranoid, disloyal, and a conspiracy theorist. It seems there is a whole level of justification and filters, that are built into the system, to prevent people from even questioning what is going on, and why. 

Never discuss these issues with your family, especially females, you will just make them worry about your welfare. Like minded people will become identifiable through certain comments or topics they may raise for discussion.  If your brother-in-law is limited to discussing topics that range from football to vehicle upgrades, chances are he's not going to be interested in discussing the actors or motives surrounding the JFK assassination.  Historically Females have evolved to not give two sh*ts regarding the security and direction of their tribe, as this is the role of the male.  If a tribe is conquered by another the females simply jump ship and take up with the more dominant males.  Females: Destroyers of Nations.

To answer your question I would say less then 1% are able identify and articulate the current world power structure, future direction and social agendas.

It takes decades of research to be able to fully comprehend the situation.

Many people may be alert to such events as 9/11 but fail to understand the real reasons and fall for the main stream narrative that it was for oil.  

When i see people still engaging in identity politics and falling for the left-right paradigm this is due to lack of research.  

[Heppinger]

31 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 Even questioning things makes me subversive, paranoid, disloyal, and a conspiracy theorist. It seems there is a whole level of justification and filters, that are built into the system, to prevent people from even questioning what is going on, and why. 

Make no mistake this by design. The Media along with Hollywood's purpose is to program you to react in certain ways when hearing specific terms.  To fully understand the current situation you must have a broad understanding in the fields of History, Geography, Religion, Science, Psychology, Politics, Social Science, Economics and Cultures more importantly Pop Culture. 

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Most of this debt will not come from the virus directly, but from the grand experiment in insanity, that the major economies of the world participated in willingly, by shutting down their economies, for the first time in recorded history. Never before has something like this been done, for a dozen good reasons. The repercussions will be felt for years, and who is going to get hit the hardest? The little guy. 

and the children as yet unborn. Seems a bit strange to me that it was so important to save those with few years to live and penalise those that have entire lives in front of them.

BTW I'm one of those with few years remaining and no one asked me if I wanted to be saved. I don't at the expense of the young generation.

Given that democracy has been suspended, no one is getting a say. It's all being dictated by a very few people.

 

PS. Once people en mass discover the lemon they have been sold expect a great number of conspiracy theories to circulate. I'd post one myself but for TVF rules.

Edited May 16, 2020 by thaibeachlovers

[3NUMBAS]

good think uk left EU as they would have to stump up huge amounts to bail out italy and greece etc .half of italy is in decay from 2008 and the mafias run those areas in the south of the country

[Lacessit]

6 hours ago, 19DL86 said:

 

But I think what Natway09 means in the case of Aus and NZ their pensions are withheld if you stay outside the country, similarly to some Scandinavian countries too, I think.  Whereby anyone not residing full-time in their country of origin, then that pension is not payable.

Completely false information. I have been getting the Australian OAP in Thailand for ten years now.

The Australian pension has two components, the base pension and supplements. The supplements are about 7% of the full pension. They are cut after one leaves Australia for more than six weeks, and restored when landing back in Australia.

[from the home of CC]

and if Trump is reelected you can expect the pain to last longer than necessary due to ill thought out responses based on emotion..