Why aren't governments advising people to boost their immune systems?

[UbonThani]

7 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Just out of interest ..... what's your educational level Mike?

Finished high school? degree? postgrad studies?

How about u?

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Off topic,

I've not seen you posting much these days.

Hope you're OK?

Not off topic at all. 

 

Personal bait ignored. 

[UbonThani]

 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2277319/

 

science

[UbonThani]

6 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Off topic,

I've not seen you posting much these days.

Hope you're OK?

im.not

 

 

[Dap]

So many out of work and barely making ends meet really don't have the money it takes to buy enough food for themselves and families let alone afford the exorbitant prices required for todays vitamins. If people could, I'm guessing most would.

Edited May 22, 2020 by Dap

[spidermike007]

25 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Just out of interest ..... what's your educational level Mike?

Finished high school? degree? postgrad studies?

A masters degree in aeronautical engineering from MIT, class of 84. With a secondary degree in nuclear physics. I did a fair amount of work in their LNS (laboratory for nuclear science). Mostly fusion theory. Some quantum mechanics. Also have a jet pilots license, (ME) multi engine rating, and some experience as a helicopter pilot. Mostly aeronautical trouble shooting and mechanics. A reasonably good background in science. But, the most important element of a scientific mind, is an open mind, and the willingness to grow your body of knowledge, and admit when your assumptions are proven wrong. 

Edited May 22, 2020 by spidermike007

[Sheryl]

Health suthorities in every country I know of advocate healthy diets and exercise.  If what OP means is why aren't governments aggressively promoting vitamin supplementation as a means of preventing COVID, it is because that would be inaccurate and misleading.

 

Note that Vit D is toxic in large quantities.

[Ryan754326]

Government health authorities in western countries have been telling people for decades that if people stopped smoking, ate healthier diets, and exercised more, we could significantly reduce the millions of deaths from heart attack, stroke, diabetes etc. But most people don’t care enough to actually change their habits. 
Maybe if we had a rolling death count on every channel, and sensational reporting about the massive number of people being hospitalized for those illnesses, people would start to pay attention. 


 

Edited May 22, 2020 by Ryan754326

[AgMech Cowboy]

On 5/20/2020 at 7:55 PM, steelepulse said:

Why aren't governments making getting healthy and boosting immune systems a priority?

The US government has been doing that for years. It mostly goes in one ear and out the other. Some of us...just don't care; although, I refused to buy any double stuffed Oreo cookies, Magnum ice cream, Twix chocolates, potato chips or brownies yesterday on my weekly grocery trip. (There is hope).

[AgMech Cowboy]

22 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Absolutely, the quackery enters the story when you think popping a few vitamin pills will strengthen it.

Most people get all the vitamins they need from the food they eat.

There's a whole quack industry bought on selling supplemental vitamins to people that don't need them.

Go to a doctor, get your blood checked for your electrolyte and chemistry. Then the doctor can tell you what supplements, if any, that you need. Mind you, my brother (PHD in Chem E), developed Diabetes 2, which caused him to do extensive reading on the subject. He swears by the vitamins and supplements that he takes. But, he can afford it...  (He eats a bowl of sugar free ice cream and pecan pie or Keebler chocolate chip cookies after almost every meal and has no problem with his diabetes. He's 84).

[mikebike]

3 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Wrong again. The science states just the opposite. Vitamin D benefits are indisputable. Have been for decades now. This from the NIH.

 

It is now clear that vitamin D has important roles in addition to its classic effects on calcium and bone homeostasis. As the vitamin D receptor is expressed on immune cells (B cells, T cells and antigen presenting cells) and these immunologic cells are all are capable of synthesizing the active vitamin D metabolite, vitamin D has the capability of acting in an autocrine manner in a local immunologic milieu. Vitamin D can modulate the innate and adaptive immune responses. Deficiency in vitamin D is associated with increased autoimmunity as well as an increased susceptibility to infection. As immune cells in autoimmune diseases are responsive to the ameliorative effects of vitamin D, the beneficial effects of supplementing vitamin D deficient individuals with autoimmune disease may extend beyond the effects on bone and calcium homeostasis.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3166406/

To those promoting vitamin and supplements: would y'all like to address the issue of absorption and efficacy of vits and supplements vs getting everything from actual food and sunlight? Also the issue of total lack of regulations in the vit/supplement industry and the fact that you have absolutely no real clue of what you are taking?

Edited May 22, 2020 by mikebike

[talahtnut]

My Missus bought a parcel of vitamin pills

for ฿2000. Reading through the list of

ingredients, no surprise, all manufactured

from vegetable matter that she could have

bought from the local market.

Shes eaten the lot, proof you cant argue

with a Thai woman.

[mikebike]

Another thought.

 

All of this used to be addressed in grade school in what was referred to in my jurisdiction as, "health class".

 

Due to some govts war on education and defunding of such, there is no new "health class".

 

This sort of education should not need to be pulled out as a last resort while we are in the midst of a pandemic, it should be core education.

Edited May 22, 2020 by mikebike

[salsajapan]

you really don't know people if you think that they could improve anything about their health...

 

 

most of them are just too lazy or idiots, or 100% people would be training in a gym.

 

 

 

[mikebike]

1 hour ago, salsajapan said:

you really don't know people if you think that they could improve anything about their health...

 

 

most of them are just too lazy or idiots, or 100% people would be training in a gym.

 

 

 

Training in a gym is definitely NOT required to maintain good health for anyone, much less 100% of the general pop.

[Greg O]

The point is there's no detrimental effects of supplements other than the expense. You still need to eat healthy. But if the government health staff are such experts then why don't they provide some recommendations about nutrition to the Thai people instead of mandates. ( Silly masks etc) Their diets are horrid with too much oil, salt sugar etc. Storing food without refrigeration etc. 

Amazingly they seem to be immune to everything. One thing for sure is we're all allergic to the Morons.

[steelepulse]

4 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Health suthorities in every country I know of advocate healthy diets and exercise.  If what OP means is why aren't governments aggressively promoting vitamin supplementation as a means of preventing COVID, it is because that would be inaccurate and misleading.

 

Note that Vit D is toxic in large quantities.

What you're suggesting I was suggesting is completely false.  I was wondering why governments aren't giving people advice on how to protect themselves by getting some FREE vitamin D, and eating better so they get the things in their body to help them boost their immune system. 

 

When was the last time we heard medial gurus such as  Ferguson and Fauci recommending getting your immune system better?  I can't recall this at all.

 

Instead, we get fear mongering and scare tactics blasted all over the news every day.  Not sure why news agencies can't run a 2 minute bit every news cycle, "Here's what you can do to help yourself and your body to increase your chances of beating covid if you get it."

Edited May 22, 2020 by steelepulse

[talahtnut]

Outdoor folk are more likely to be healthier,

everyone needs a bit of sun on 'em.

So I reckon the stay at home lockdown is

counterproductive.

Washing hands and sterile conditions are

not good for the immune system, also

counterproductive.

Wearing a mask is ineffective against the

virus and upsets breathing if used for long

periods, again counterproductive.

Closing beaches seems daft, probably one

of the healthiest places on the planet.

Like OP said why aren't they boosting our

immune system?  

They are doing the opposite for some reason.

[superal]

Vitamin D is not easily absorbed in the body by way of a supplement . Indeed the main source is by way of the sun to the skin and as such vitamin D is actually a hormone that as a catalyst triggers the body to boost the immune system . However a regular zinc supplement along with a balanced diet of veg , fruit , oily fish and lean meat is the preferred diet , as I have read several times .

The central south east Asian countries i.e. Thailand , Laos , Cambodia , Mynamar , Vietnam all have a high rate of ultra violet light way above the minimum level 3 on a scale of 1 to 12 , ( today level 11 ) 

[spidermike007]

22 hours ago, mikebike said:

To those promoting vitamin and supplements: would y'all like to address the issue of absorption and efficacy of vits and supplements vs getting everything from actual food and sunlight? Also the issue of total lack of regulations in the vit/supplement industry and the fact that you have absolutely no real clue of what you are taking?

Well, it is always easier to be skeptical than to be open minded. That is simply human nature. But denial closes an awful lot of doors. I know for myself, about 7 years ago, I started suffering from declining eyesight. Something very common for someone my age. My eyesight was getting fuzzy, at a distance. Up until then, I had enjoyed great eyesight. I had heard about herbal cures. I did some research. I started combining a Bilberry eyebright vision complex, with a grape seed, greet tea, and pink bark complex, and added full spectrum black current extract. All inexpensive, from Swanson Vitamins in the US. Within a week, my vision has sharpened, and to this day I do not wear glasses. It sort of defies science, and definitely defies the science of optometry! If I get lazy, and stop taking it for even three days, my vision starts to get fuzzy again, and within a couple of days of taking it, it improves again. I seriously doubt if something as profound as eyesight can be improved with a placebo effect! Multiple studies have shown some of these herbs to strengthen the optic nerve, and without them I do feel tension within my eyes, with them that tension completely dissipates. You have to go with what works for you. But total denial is not much of an answer. I tend to favor herbs over vitamins, but I do use both. 

 

As far as your comment about not having any clue about what you are taking, that is a reasonable point. One must engage in alot of research, in regard to herbal cures. But, it is well worth the time, and most are not expensive, if purchased commercially, opposed to getting from a Chinese doctor, who tend to be way overpriced on their herbs. My primary source is Swansons, as they are very reasonable. Some prefer iherb. I find them more expensive, but they do international shipping. I use Puritans Pride for black cherry extract, to regulate my puride levels, and that helps alot with my gout. I also get probiotics from them, and they are far cheaper than many sources. I take alot of herbs. And I swear by them. They are incredibly effective, not only in curing current problems, but apparently in preventing countless problems.

 

Some vitamins and herbs you take, and you have no idea whether or not they are working. Some you know for sure. Same with prostate issues. By taking stinging nettle leaf and root, or saw palmetto, my urine flow increases, and the ease with which it passes increases, and in addition it lowers my PSA significantly. So, for the naysayers out there, my heart goes out to you. Stick with Big Pharma, and declining health, if that works for you. But, there is a world of healing out there, and the fact that it has been used for thousands of years has to mean something. After all, many of the world's drugs are derived from plant sources, so it is a bit narrow minded to say they are not effective for healing.

 

Drugs are obtained from six major sources:

Plant sources

Animal sources

Mineral/ Earth sources

Microbiological sources

Semi synthetic sources/ Synthetic sources

Recombinant DNA technology

 

http://howmed.net/pharmacology/sources-of-drugs/

 

Some opinions of doctors in the field:

 

David Kiefer, MD, a research fellow in the department of family medicine at the University of Wisconsin in Madison, says it makes sense that bilberries have a reputation for helping conditions ranging from retinopathy (abnormal or damaged blood vessels in the retina) to diarrhea to heart disease. "A lot of these [conditions] have an inflammatory component, so some herbs treat a variety of things," he says. "There's oxidative damage inso manyillnesses. Whether in eye vessels or leg vessels, we can get a positive effect."

 

https://www.webmd.com/eye-health/features/bilberry-extract-and-vision#2

 

Throughout history, berries have been an important and valued part of the human diet. Berries contain many components, but anthocyanins, the phenolic compounds that give berries their red, blue, and purple colors, have been found to have a wide range of health-related properties, including antioxidant, antitumorigenic, anti-inflammatory, hypoglycemic, and antimicrobial effects. Bilberry is rich in anthocyanins, especially delphinidins and cyanidins. 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK92770/

 

Just some of the positive effects of Bilberry, on the human body. 

 

 

Edited May 23, 2020 by spidermike007

[steelepulse]

5 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Well, it is always easier to be skeptical than to be open minded. That is simply human nature. But denial closes an awful lot of doors. I know for myself, about 7 years ago, I started suffering from declining eyesight. Something very common for someone my age. My eyesight was getting fuzzy, at a distance. Up until then, I had enjoyed great eyesight. I had heard about herbal cures. I did some research. I started combining a Bilberry eyebright vision complex, with a grape seed, greet tea, and pink bark complex, and added full spectrum black current extract. All inexpensive, from Swanson Vitamins in the US. Within a week, my vision has sharpened, and to this day I do not wear glasses. It sort of defies science, and definitely defies the science of optometry! If I get lazy, and stop taking it for even three days, my vision starts to get fuzzy again, and within a couple of days of taking it, it improves again. I seriously doubt if something as profound as eyesight can be improved with a placebo effect! Multiple studies have shown some of these herbs to strengthen the optic nerve, and without them I do feel tension within my eyes, with them that tension completely dissipates. You have to go with what works for you. But total denial is not much of an answer. 

 

Some vitamins and herbs you take, and you have no idea whether or not they are working. Some you know for sure. Same with prostate issues. By taking stinging nettle leaf and root, or saw palmetto, my urine flow increases, and the ease with which it passes increases, and in addition it lowers my PSA significantly. So, for the naysayers out there, my heart goes out to you. Stick with Big Pharma, and declining health, if that works for you. But, there is a world of healing out there, and the fact that it has been used for thousands of years has to mean something. After all, many of the world's drugs are derived from plant sources, so it is a bit narrow minded to say they are not effective for healing.

 

Drugs are obtained from six major sources:

Plant sources

Animal sources

Mineral/ Earth sources

Microbiological sources

Semi synthetic sources/ Synthetic sources

Recombinant DNA technology

 

http://howmed.net/pharmacology/sources-of-drugs/

 

Some opinions of doctors in the field:

 

David Kiefer, MD, a research fellow in the department of family medicine at the University of Wisconsin in Madison, says it makes sense that bilberries have a reputation for helping conditions ranging from retinopathy (abnormal or damaged blood vessels in the retina) to diarrhea to heart disease. "A lot of these [conditions] have an inflammatory component, so some herbs treat a variety of things," he says. "There's oxidative damage inso manyillnesses. Whether in eye vessels or leg vessels, we can get a positive effect."

 

https://www.webmd.com/eye-health/features/bilberry-extract-and-vision#2

 

Throughout history, berries have been an important and valued part of the human diet. Berries contain many components, but anthocyanins, the phenolic compounds that give berries their red, blue, and purple colors, have been found to have a wide range of health-related properties, including antioxidant, antitumorigenic, anti-inflammatory, hypoglycemic, and antimicrobial effects. Bilberry is rich in anthocyanins, especially delphinidins and cyanidins. 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK92770/

 

 

 

I'll add in one personal note about herbs and health.

 

My mother who is 90, was diagnosed 4 years ago with stage 4 lung cancer( never smoked, but a dormant cancer from 20 years prior started growing).  She was given less than a year to live.  I told her to get on a specific herb, Artemenisin.  Turns out her doctor was from India and knew of this herb, but due to regulations, couldn't prescribe anything that wasn't in the big pharma portfolio.  Now 4 years later, the cancer has not spread, and she is as healthy as can be for someone of her age.

 

Was it a fluke, luck, or did the herb really work?

[spidermike007]

2 minutes ago, steelepulse said:

I'll add in one personal note about herbs and health.

 

My mother who is 90, was diagnosed 4 years ago with stage 4 lung cancer( never smoked, but a dormant cancer from 20 years prior started growing).  She was given less than a year to live.  I told her to get on a specific herb, Artemenisin.  Turns out her doctor was from India and knew of this herb, but due to regulations, couldn't prescribe anything that wasn't in the big pharma portfolio.  Now 4 years later, the cancer has not spread, and she is as healthy as can be for someone of her age.

 

Was it a fluke, luck, or did the herb really work?

Good work! It was definitely not a fluke, nor was it luck. Stage 4 lung cancer does not respond to luck, and you created your own good fortune by demonstrating the wisdom to say no to Big Pharma, which would have prescribed $40,000 sessions of chemo and radiation, and only extended her life by a year or two. I would never subject my body to that outdated nonsense. Big Pharma loves it when you are an obedient subject. But, a wise mind thinks outside the box of convention and medical ignorance. Good on you, and your Mom! 

[steelepulse]

On 5/21/2020 at 2:21 PM, Fex Bluse said:

I suppose there is a nuanced difference between telling people to boost their immune systems and to not be obese and generally unhealthy. 

 

Anyone with half a brain knows that it's ALWAYS better to be healthy. It's never advantageous to be obese or to have blood pressure or heart issues. 

 

But, eating berries and seeds to 'boost one's immune system' won't do much to fend off a virus, in the same way boosting immunity won't defend against HIV. 

 

That's my take 

Agreed, but don't tell that to all who recommend tin foil hats or say it's "quackery".

[superal]

51 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Well, it is always easier to be skeptical than to be open minded. That is simply human nature. But denial closes an awful lot of doors. I know for myself, about 7 years ago, I started suffering from declining eyesight. Something very common for someone my age. My eyesight was getting fuzzy, at a distance. Up until then, I had enjoyed great eyesight. I had heard about herbal cures. I did some research. I started combining a Bilberry eyebright vision complex, with a grape seed, greet tea, and pink bark complex, and added full spectrum black current extract. All inexpensive, from Swanson Vitamins in the US. Within a week, my vision has sharpened, and to this day I do not wear glasses. It sort of defies science, and definitely defies the science of optometry! If I get lazy, and stop taking it for even three days, my vision starts to get fuzzy again, and within a couple of days of taking it, it improves again. I seriously doubt if something as profound as eyesight can be improved with a placebo effect! Multiple studies have shown some of these herbs to strengthen the optic nerve, and without them I do feel tension within my eyes, with them that tension completely dissipates. You have to go with what works for you. But total denial is not much of an answer. I tend to favor herbs over vitamins, but I do use both. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks , very interesting . I want to know if you had your eyes examined by an ophthalmologist . I have the same symtoms as you describe and went to my local Thai hospital where I was diagnosed with cataracts . My research shows the condition will worsen and can even lead to blindness . Watching TV and night driving are both a problem and the only way out is an operation to replace the lenses , unless you know different ?

[Peter Denis]

On 5/21/2020 at 1:06 PM, BritManToo said:

So I was right then?

No degree?

Did you at least finish high school?

What have college or university degrees to do with plain common sense?

Some of the stupidest people I ever met, absolutely devoid of any common sense, were college graduates or even had PhDs. Yes, they were often better at masking their ignorance and shallow thinking by parroting the popular narrative than those without higher studies.

Just listen to the content of what is said and the reasoning behind it. and don't get blinded by the studies or titles of those expressing their views.

[Tony125]

On 5/21/2020 at 10:41 PM, talahtnut said:

'Let your food be thy medicine' Hippocrates,

father of modern medicine.

Sadly many GPs have become snake oil vendors.

I remain skeptical of governments and the

whole covid business.

 

CDC is ‘conflating results of two different COVID tests and distorting metrics used by states in reopenings’

 

https://www.the-sun.com/news/871889/cdc-is-conflating-results-of-two-different-covid-tests-distorting-metrics/?utm_medium=browser_notifications&utm_source=pushly

[Bkk Brian]

I think the health services/governments throughout the world have already been advising of the benefits of certain vitamins and eating healthy foods for many years 

 

Some groups of the population are at greater risk of not getting enough vitamin D and are advised to take a supplement every day of the year. 

https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/food-and-diet/do-i-need-vitamin-supplements/

 

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/eight-tips-for-healthy-eating/

 

Its all out there and should already be common knowledge.

 

Actually I ran out of vit D supplements last week and can't find any, even tried to order on Lazada but no good.

[Frotting]

On 22 May, 2020 at 10:01 AM, BritManToo said:

Complete quackery!

Seems to me you must have degrees in virology, immunology and possibly a Phd in molecular biology to mention a few.  How can you dismiss proven science with the offhand comment "complete quackery"? Look at the evidence - which incidentally has been out there for 80 years or so.

 

You are either trolling for your own enjoyment (which would imply you are a bit of a sad person) or on the payroll of someone with pharmaceutical connections.  A real keyboard warrior.  Take some advice from Spidermike here; keep an open mind and do your due diligence, read some scientific papers and learn something.

 

[Bkk Brian]

Of course you'd be pretty naive to assume that big pharma was not heavily involved in the production of Vitamins and dietary supplements, selling their products with herbal terms such as natural, wholesome.

 

Pfizer, Unilever, Norvartis, GlaxoSmithKline and all the large pharma companies are producing these products, they love it, cheap and takes no expensive research to produce plus less regulations to sell them.

[metisdead]

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