Johnson risks party wrath to back aide who crossed UK during lockdown

[evadgib]

8 minutes ago, Phil McCaverty said:

A member of the public saw him and even made a note of his vehicle number. Knowing the time and location, would have been easy for the local police to verify/disprove the claim via CCTV in the area and the car registration. They did nothing. Johnson also refused to answer the question yesterday. Doesn't look good.

- The VRN could easily have been obtained after a cursory glance at YT etc or by the sort of journalist that stooped to access a murder victims phone.

 

- How can plod do so without breaching PACE, GDPR, Human rights legislation or other measures aimed at protecting individual rights & keeping lynch mobs at bay?

 

This is nowhere near as cut and dried as you'd have us believe.

[Phil McCaverty]

3 minutes ago, evadgib said:

- The VRN could easily have been obtained after a cursory glance at YT etc or by the sort of journalist that stooped to access a murder victims phone.

 

- How can plod do so without breaching PACE, GDPR, Human rights legislation or other measures aimed at protecting individual rights & keeping lynch mobs at bay?

 

This is nowhere near as cut and dried as you'd have us believe.

The VRN was obtained by the retired teacher. No violations of "PACE, GDPR, Human rights legislation or other measures aimed at protecting individual rights" by the police looking up a VRN number or asking to see the CCTV in local shops.

 

 

Edited May 25, 2020 by Phil McCaverty

[evadgib]

1 minute ago, Phil McCaverty said:

The VRN was obtained by the retired teacher. No violations of PACE, GDPR, Human rights legislation or other measures aimed at protecting individual rights by the police looking up a VRN number or asking to see the CCTV in local shops.

A claim that has yet to be verified, and which again draws attention to the fact that no smartphone stills or footage has yet materialized; which in a story like this would have been sold to the highest bidder.

[Blue Muton]

6 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I am not a Brit but I follow UK news. I am also not a fan of Boris or Cummings but when I first read about this I though: Ok, Cummings did something he should not have done. So if that was illegal then he should pay a fine, probably like many others. But I thought he should not lose his job because of that mistake. Not that I like his politics but it seems Boris thinks he does a good job.

 

And then was Boris press conference telling everybody that Cummings didn't do anything wrong. Strange...

What I don't understand is why Boris didn't say something like: Cummings made a mistake. He shouldn't have done it. But he is a trusted advisor and I won't fire him because of one mistake.

I think many people would have accepted something like that. But no, that is not what Boris said.

 

This is a wonderful article about the man in charge.

"Look on the bright side: at least we’ve had it confirmed who is actually running the country these days. And it isn’t the prime minister."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/24/no-dignity-no-future-boris-forsakes-leadership-to-protect-cummings
 

It would have made more sense to go down the "mistake" line as you suggest. Unfortunately there's aPM sitting in No 10 who struggles with the truth, he was even sacked for lying when he was a journalist and he hasn't changed his spots since.

[rott]

10 hours ago, tribalfusion001 said:

If you play with fire you will get burnt. Nothing sad, politics is a hard game, he should have fired Cummings. It's the British tradition, when you get caught out then you do the honourable thing and resign or get sacked.

To me it looks more and more as though the job is too much fo him but he does not want to resign and is hoping if he screws up enough he will be forced out. 

[Logosone]

34 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Why would a retd teacher not have a smartphone to hand, or access to local CCTV? Until such evidence emerges it cannot be taken seriously & I'm not sure it'll be 'game over' if it does.

 Civil proceeding can be taken if a person is filmed without consent, and privacy laws exist to protect a person where they can expect privacy. Presumably just photographing strangers is not a done thing in the UK, even less so in Germany where it's highly regulated. I don't blame the teacher for not whipping out the phone and snapping pictures. Assuming the sighting happened of course.

 

Eye witness reports generally are serious evidence on the face of it. However, it is a fair point that they are not conclusive evidence. Like phone records would be.

 

It is still possible in theory that the eye witness was mistaken, is highly biased against the government or other explanations. Those are all, theoretically possible.

 

Still, I think on the general point that Cummings broke lockdown rules there is little doubt, it is just a question of if he did so on justifiable grounds.

 

 

[evadgib]

3 minutes ago, Blue Muton said:

It would have made more sense to go down the "mistake" line as you suggest. Unfortunately there's aPM sitting in No 10 who struggles with the truth, he was even sacked for lying when he was a journalist and he hasn't changed his spots since.

2 tours as Mayor of London in which he secured and delivered a very successful Olympics before becoming leader of his party and securing the biggest majority since Thatcher knocks that barrel-scraping little dig out of the park.

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, Logosone said:

 Civil proceeding can be taken if a person is filmed without consent, and privacy laws exist to protect a person where they can expect privacy. Presumably just photographing strangers is not a done thing in the UK, even less so in Germany where it's highly regulated. I don't blame the teacher for not whipping out the phone and snapping pictures. Assuming the sighting happened of course.

 

Eye witness reports generally are serious evidence on the face of it. However, it is a fair point that they are not conclusive evidence. Like phone records would be.

 

It is still possible in theory that the eye witness was mistaken, is highly biased against the government or other explanations. Those are all, theoretically possible.

 

Still, I think on the general point that Cummings broke lockdown rules there is little doubt, it is just a question of if he did so on justifiable grounds.

 

 

You cannot stop anyone taking photo's of anyone else on public grounds, if you don't believe me have a look outside Dom Cummings house where his autistic child and family are, and anybody that says this is not deplorable needs counceling.

 

 

[evadgib]

10 minutes ago, vogie said:

You cannot stop anyone taking photo's of anyone else on public grounds, if you don't believe me have a look outside Dom Cummings house where his autistic child and family are, and anybody that says this is not deplorable needs counceling.

...and with readily available software it's entirely possible to read those number plates like a schoolteacher in a Durham Castle lol.

Edited May 25, 2020 by evadgib

[Chomper Higgot]

58 minutes ago, evadgib said:

His Doctorate is as fake as yours.

I’m not sure why you think a ‘Doctorate’ is necessary.

[tribalfusion001]

10 minutes ago, evadgib said:

...and with readily available software it's entirely possible to read those number plates like a schoolteacher in a Durham Castle lol.

Mark Francois he is my local MP, short and fat.

[Rookiescot]

When the inevitable happens and Cummings either resigns or is pushed out to protect Johnson I am going to enjoy the brexiteer meltdown.

Where does being pro Brexit give you immunity from the law and rules everyone else is having to follow?

Oh yeah Brexiteerland. Where being an architect of leaving the EU confers saintlike status among the believers.  

[Jonnapat]

Interesting tweet from one of the many clergy objecting to Johnson's defence of Cummings. 

"" Johnson has now gone the full Trump "".

Which sums up the situation aptly.

[Logosone]

15 minutes ago, vogie said:

You cannot stop anyone taking photo's of anyone else on public grounds, if you don't believe me have a look outside Dom Cummings house where his autistic child and family are, and anybody that says this is not deplorable needs counceling.

 

 

Yes, I noticed that the UK is more liberal in this, whereas in Germany there are "personality rights" and all kinds of rules that prohibit a person from being photographed without consent. Even if the UK is more liberal in this regard, it does have civil liability risks if people are filmed without consent in theory. I accept you can not really prevent it, but you'd lay yourself open to potential civil liabities. It's a long shot, but it's not really a done thing to go up to a stranger in the UK and snap pictures, is it?

 

About this throng of journos, it is intrusive for Mr Cummings, however, as prominent adviser of the government he would no doubt be aware that his life is under public scrutiny. He must have seen himself in the press before.

 

I would consider this justifiable since Cummings is a public figure, and clearly it is of public interest if he broke lockdown rules.

 

After all the British public at large had to forego seeing their family members for months and had to abide by highly intrusive restrictions. If scientific and now government advisers don't keep to those rules, understandably this would be of interest to the public.

[Stocky]

[vogie]

15 minutes ago, tribalfusion001 said:

Mark Francois he is my local MP, short and fat.

 

1 hour ago, tribalfusion001 said:

The guy is a knob anyway. Obviously Boris can't function withouthime, useless PM.

Can we deduce by his nonsense that you are a remainer?

[evadgib]

23 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

When the inevitable happens and Cummings either resigns or is pushed out to protect Johnson I am going to enjoy the brexiteer meltdown.

Where does being pro Brexit give you immunity from the law and rules everyone else is having to follow?

Oh yeah Brexiteerland. Where being an architect of leaving the EU confers saintlike status among the believers.  

I can only speak for myself but you have spectacularly missed the point. Shutting the fire doors and keeping the rhubarb brigade at bay is no indication whatsoever of what you deem to be 'support' any more than a media-choreographed rugby scrum constitutes due legal process.

 

Staying within the context of your own views instead of second guessing everyone elses might prove useful.

 

HTH

Edited May 25, 2020 by evadgib

[Rookiescot]

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

 

Can we deduce by his nonsense that you are a remainer?

Can you stop trying to reduce this to a Brexiteer v Remain issue?

Its an issue of right and wrong.

As I pointed out to you the Daily Mail is calling for him to resign and it is most definitely within the Brexit camp. 

[Bluespunk]

Tick tick tick

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/25/durham-police-chief-calls-for-investigation-into-dominic-cummings?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[Rookiescot]

4 minutes ago, evadgib said:

I can only speak for myself but you have spectacularly missed the point. Shutting the fire doors and keeping the rhubarb brigade at bay is no indication whatsoever of what you deem to be 'support' any more than a media-choreographed rugby scrum constitutes due legal process.

So when the media scrum was all over Corbyn accusing him of being antisemitic you were on here posting about due legal process and rhubarb?

Yeah right.

[Rookiescot]

2 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Tick tick tick

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/25/durham-police-chief-calls-for-investigation-into-dominic-cummings?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Its worse than that. Today number 10 has been stressing that Johnson listened to Cummings and that he assured him he had done nothing wrong. The change in language is significant. Now its a case of Johnson taking Cummings word for it. Any subsequent investigation which finds Cummings is wrong and Johnson can walk away claiming he was lied too.

Oh the irony of Johnson claiming he was lied to is going to be delicious.

[7by7]

5 hours ago, vogie said:

Stephen Kinnock didn't resign, I think you'll find he's still a MP.

Kinnock is a back bench MP. Cummings is the PM's boss/senior advisor (take your pick) who through his attendance at most SAGE meetings must have had a major hand in formulating the guidelines he, himself, chose to break.

 

As shown several times already in this topic; Kinnock was spoken to by South Wales police. From reports, like all first time lockdown offenders, he was given a verbal warning. Stephen Kinnock targeted by police for visiting father, Neil

 

That is surely all that would have happened to Cummings; no one would be calling for his resignation and this whole affair would have blown over had Cummings' arrogance not prevented him from holding his hands up and saying "It's a fair cop, I was wrong."

[evadgib]

6 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Tick tick tick

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/25/durham-police-chief-calls-for-investigation-into-dominic-cummings?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

You'll need to wind that a few times before it gets anywhere & plod can expect a whirlwind in return.

 

This latest red herring is on par with the EC's witch hunt into Arron Banks which ended in similar failure a few months ago.

[7by7]

5 hours ago, evadgib said:

The merits of the above are somewhat muted by the complicit nature of this MSM pile on; absence of journalistic due dilligence & likely breach of PACE/GDPR etc by the likes of plod for political gain by the left in order to secure a scalp.

 

It sticks out like bulldogs wotsits.

 Only to tinfoil hat wearers!

[Bluespunk]

1 minute ago, evadgib said:

You'll need to wind that a few times before it gets anywhere & plod can expect a whirlwind in return.

 

This latest red herring is on par with the EC's witch hunt into Arron Banks which ended in similar failure a few months ago.

Sure it is. Keep digging. 

[vogie]

14 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Can you stop trying to reduce this to a Brexiteer v Remain issue?

Its an issue of right and wrong.

As I pointed out to you the Daily Mail is calling for him to resign and it is most definitely within the Brexit camp. 

I am trying to bring some sanity into the discussion, do we really need posts like 'Mark Francois is my local MP, short and fat' you ok with that rookie, as long as someone is insulting the Tories you're happy. Let's try and keep a modicum of decency going here.

[7by7]

5 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

5 hours ago, vogie said:

Why should anything you say convince me, are you an oracle or a wise old sage or something. For 4 years you have been deriding the Conservatory Party, you are hardly going to say anything positive about them now are you. ????

 

What about the Daily Mail?

 And the Telegraph.

[evadgib]

6 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 Only to tinfoil hat wearers!

Kevlar, 49. Size 58 with a FFD on the inside ????

 

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

I am trying to bring some sanity into the discussion, do we really need posts like 'Mark Francois is my local MP, short and fat' you ok with that rookie, as long as someone is insulting the Tories you're happy. Let's try and keep a modicum of decency going here.

Personally no I wouldnt describe anyone as short and fat. 

But you keep trying to drive this theory that this is a left v right or leave v remain issue.

It is not. It is a question of right or wrong. Descent people on both sides of those arguments I listed above are all of the opinion that Cummings did the wrong thing.

Did you see anyone defend the Scottish health official when she had to resign for ignoring her own advice? Sorry her name escapes me for the moment but you know who I mean.

No it was pretty much universally agreed she had made a bad decision and had to resign.

Now I know you are a Johnson fan and want to see him do well. But defending Cummings actions is going to be a millstone around his neck. Any story involving Cummings in the future is going to mention his actions during the shutdown.

Does Johnson, with all the other problems he is facing, need that baggage? 

[7by7]

4 hours ago, 3NUMBAS said:

https://metro.co.uk/2020/05/06/well-known-people-who-have-broken-lockdown-rules-12660863/

 

many famous names have done the same

 

Well known people who have broken lockdown rules but should have known better View 3 comments

 

Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2020/05/06/well-known-people-who-have-broken-lockdown-rules-12660863/?ito=cbshare

Twitter: https://twitter.com/MetroUK | Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MetroUK/

 

All caught, and, unlike Cummings, all, apart from he who cannot be named here, dealt with.