Felling of British slave trader statue heats up simmering debate

[BobBKK]

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

Quite happy to disagree on this one, it happens.

 

I think putting up statues of those involved in the slave trade is celebrating those involved rather then remembering the vileness of their trade.

 

But, that's just me.

Right but 100s statues for those that sent men to war?  even those that still live?  Bush? etc.?  tens of thousands died based on their lies. The world, let's face it, is a hypocritical place and alters it's views whenever it feels like it.

[Bluespunk]

Just now, BobBKK said:

Right but 100s statues for those that sent men to war?  even those that still live?  Bush? etc.?  tens of thousands died based on their lies. The world, let's face it, is a hypocritical place and alters it's views whenever it feels like it.

Take them down as well, won't worry me.

[Andrew65]

11 minutes ago, samran said:

Funny, I’ve always had you pinned as a JRM fan. His tone deafness is enough to make anyone swoon. 

When they say a politician is "out of touch" with most people, JRM is the poster-boy. I expect that many in the judiciary & elsewhere in Britain are rather like him.

Edited June 9, 2020 by Andrew65

[chilli42]

I wonder how many of the power elite are sitting back and having a giggle over this.  Things are being pushed toward a perfect storm ... income/savings/jobs at risk, health at risk, safety at risk.  When will we all be ready to hand things over to a dictator who will make us feel secure again?  We are being played like a fiddle.

[bodga]

1 hour ago, Bluespunk said:

Yeah, the man was a real saint. Who said the point was to make his evil actions go away? The point is not to make heroes out of those who profited from human misery. The slave trade is a truly despicable episode from the uk’s past (not the only one of course) and those involved should be reviled. 

Youd  better  revile  most countries in the world then

[bodga]

57 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

If you wish to see them taken down, campaign for such.

No need, form a  mob and just go smash em up, seems to work  now.

[bodga]

38 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Take them down as well, won't worry me.

Ban  all religions too, theyre  evil .

[Bluespunk]

5 minutes ago, bodga said:

Ban  all religions too, theyre  evil .

I'm an atheist, I know there is no god, but no problem with who people peacefully worship. That is not the same as idolising those who do evil.

 

6 minutes ago, bodga said:

No need, form a  mob and just go smash em up, seems to work  now.

Nope

 

9 minutes ago, bodga said:

Youd  better  revile  most countries in the world then

I tend to revile individuals based on their actions, I don't judge mass communities as a whole. That's prejudice, the kind of prejudice that the man whose statue was torn down used to commit unforgivable evil.

Edited June 9, 2020 by Bluespunk

[shackleton]

Most of these events people are complaining about ie the slave trade happened over 200 years ago

Considering the UK was one of the first countries to abolish slavery

People need to get over the past and stop using it as a excuse for riots and 

Poverty and look to a positive future

[vogie]

11 minutes ago, bodga said:

No need, form a  mob and just go smash em up, seems to work  now.

And you will never be short of a appreciating audience with the police about. Police are now choosing which crimes to police, be carefull if you're sunbathing you could be detained but should you wish to create wanton destruction you should be ok.

[Curt1591]

5 hours ago, Curt1591 said:

Dr. Martin Luther King did more for advancing equality than all the SJWs combined. All these riots and violent protests do is bring about more anger and resentment.

 

 

 

Confused by black people not parroting the narrative? 

 

 

Edited June 9, 2020 by Curt1591

[toofarnorth]

16 hours ago, Bruno123 said:

 

Indeed...which is why they pulled the statue down. It belongs in a museum, to remind everyone of the atrocities that took place.

Now I do agree with that !  There are lots of things in museums that do not need putting on display outside. Maybe items from the past 2 world wars such as flame throwers , If interested go and visit museums.

Oh I do hope no one tries to pull down Nelson's column.

[Rimmer]

Off topic post removed

[JonnyF]

1 hour ago, Bluespunk said:

Removing a statue that wasn't necessary for public safety and was something that should have been done a long time ago is within our control.

Something that should have been done a long time ago? That's your opinion and many disagree with you. It's certainly not a decision to be taken by the mob.

 

On public safety, what's more important? Removing a statue that some people don't like or protecting the lives of innocent people and health workers in the middle of a pandemic that has killed 40,000 people in the UK alone? My family lives in Bristol including my 78 year old mother, and idiotic crowds like this risk a spike in infections that could well lead to more deaths in the area.

 

Surely your ilk and the leftist mobs that push this divisive agenda can wait until the pandemic has eased before vandalizing public property and endangering the public. 

[Bluespunk]

21 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Something that should have been done a long time ago? That's your opinion and many disagree with you. It's certainly not a decision to be taken by the mob.

 

On public safety, what's more important? Removing a statue that some people don't like or protecting the lives of innocent people and health workers in the middle of a pandemic that has killed 40,000 people in the UK alone? My family lives in Bristol including my 78 year old mother, and idiotic crowds like this risk a spike in infections that could well lead to more deaths in the area.

 

Surely your ilk and the leftist mobs that push this divisive agenda can wait until the pandemic has eased before vandalizing public property and endangering the public. 

I believe removing statues of those who profited from the misery of slavery and protecting public health are both important.

 

Not mutually exclusive.

Edited June 9, 2020 by Bluespunk

[JonnyF]

15 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

I believe removing statues of those who profited from the misery of slavery and protecting public health are bot important.

 

Not mutually exclusive.

They are mutually exclusive if removing the statue involves gathering thousands of people to riot in close proximity in the middle of an air borne pandemic that has claimed over 40,000 lives in the UK.

 

Would a picture help your understanding?

 

 

And if you want to remove it then campaign for its removal through democratic means. Not through mob rule under the threat of violence.

[Bluespunk]

3 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

They are mutually exclusive if removing the statue involves gathering thousands of people to riot in close proximity in the middle of an air borne pandemic that has claimed over 40,000 lives in the UK.

 

Would a picture help your understanding?

 

 

And if you want to remove it then campaign for its removal through democratic means. Not through mob rule under the threat of violence.

I didn't remove the statue or break social distancing norms.

 

I support social distancing and lockdown precautions.

 

I also support the removal of statues of those vile individuals who profited from human misery. Not sure I would have done it this way, but I understand the feelings and motivations of those who did so.

 

See, not exclusive.

Edited June 9, 2020 by Bluespunk

[Krataiboy]

Welcome to the new normal - ochlocracy.

 

 

[CorpusChristie]

If I ever see a Deigo Maradonna statue , I am going to knock it down on account of him being  cheat

[Orton Rd]

2 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

I judge all involved in the slave trade as scum.

 

None should be lauded for the evil they did.

That will include 12 USA presidents as well as Lincoln who planned to ship them back to Africa after the civil war. The USA have one of the biggest slave owners on the dollar bill, you probably think they should replace that with Malcolm X or some other hater of white people. The past should be left in the past and the statues left alone, time for people to move on and and stop stoking up hate and blaming what was done hundreds of years ago for their own failures.

[Bluespunk]

18 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

That will include 12 USA presidents as well as Lincoln who planned to ship them back to Africa after the civil war. The USA have one of the biggest slave owners on the dollar bill, you probably think they should replace that with Malcolm X or some other hater of white people. The past should be left in the past and the statues left alone, time for people to move on and and stop stoking up hate and blaming what was done hundreds of years ago for their own failures.

As I said earlier, this thread isn't about the USA, however...

 

I support the removal of statues of slavers and have made no indication of who could replace them...

 

I completely disagree with you on ignoring the evils of the past and leaving up statues of those who profited from the misery of slavery.

Edited June 9, 2020 by Bluespunk

[BillStrangeOgre]

Strange but true...

a statue of Cecil Rhodes stands in Company gardens in the centre of Cape Town to this day, despite all that has taken place in that country

[Silent Number]

18 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

We have already see clear examples of the folly of allowing complex issues to be decided by plebiscite. Unfortunately, the UK has a long history of lionising some of the worst people in history. It is time that we grow up and recognise how much damage our anscestors did around the world, rather than continuing to laud them. 

Get over it it was 400 years ago you lot are slow pro-activists. Explain to me why it’s taken 400 years to come to your vandalism of property based upon your concept of what happened in an era of which you had no control. The future is the area you should focus on without blatant vandalism and destruction of hard working people’s livelihoods in the name of so called justice and idealism. It’s been erected for 125 years it’s taken until now for you tree hugging politically correct vegans to notice it. Get a life <deleted>. There I feel much better.

Edited June 9, 2020 by Silent Number

[Krataiboy]

2 hours ago, chilli42 said:

I wonder how many of the power elite are sitting back and having a giggle over this.  Things are being pushed toward a perfect storm ... income/savings/jobs at risk, health at risk, safety at risk.  When will we all be ready to hand things over to a dictator who will make us feel secure again?  We are being played like a fiddle.

A New World Order is coming. And before you yell "Conspiracy theorist!", here's the proof, straight from the horse's mouth. . . 

 

The New World Order Project is an independent international campaign (my itals) to advance the principles, values, and articles of the UN Charter, and UN resolutions 65 309, and 66 281, in support of the UN’s Global Goals for Sustainable Development by 2030, and the happiness, well-being, and freedom of all life on Earth by 2050. 

https://unnwo.org/

 

They're so confident it will happen, they are not even bothering to hide it anymore!

 

[CG1 Blue]

3 hours ago, BobBKK said:

Many of them were black. Black traders but you never hear about that. Everything was different back then and, thank God, we have evolved but we cannot wipe out the past using our modern judgements. I dislike all this 'cleansing the past' obsession. Recognize it, disagree with it, learn from it and move on. 

The Africans' involvement in the slave trade is rarely discussed. The African chiefs were selling their own people to the Arabs, Americans and Brits. All parties were to blame. 

Thankfully we have evolved as a species since that disgraceful episode in human history. And I agree - we need to learn from it and move on.

 

African chiefs urged to apologise for slave trade

Yoweri Museveni, the president of Uganda, told an audience including Bill Clinton: "African chiefs were the ones waging war on each other and capturing their own people and selling them. If anyone should apologise it should be the African chiefs. We still have those traitors here even today."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/nov/18/africans-apologise-slave-trade#maincontent

Edited June 9, 2020 by CG1 Blue

[tribalfusion001]

5 hours ago, evadgib said:

Until you realise the calibre, background and numbers likely to be in attendance. To have some idea see who turned out for Dennis Hutchings & Alexander Blackman; Two ex servicemen thrown under a bus by the state.

 

Anyone touching Winnie will pooh! ????

TR and his thugs will poo themselves confronted by some of them urban boys. He is a hypocrite anyway saying the police got hurt, when his march last year had the same thing happen.

 

Rip all of the statues down, put some modern sculptures up, it's the 21st century. That's the problem with the UK too stuck in the past.

Edited June 9, 2020 by tribalfusion001

[Krataiboy]

Slaves come in all the colours of the rainbow (no, not that yucky one!) and always have. The same is true of slavers. It's a sad fact that humans have been exploiting each other since the year dot and will continue to do so.

 

It is irrational and impractical to expect present generations to atone for the alleged rapaciousness of their forefathers. Otherwise, we Brits should demand reparation from the Romans, Angles, Saxons, Jutes, French and Germans etc who invaded our shores to rape, pillage and plunder.

 

Instead, in recent history we have naively thrown down the welcome mat to all and sundry, with predictably disastrous consequences (example: 19,000 children abused by immigrant rape gangs last year alone) for our traditional values and way of life.

[Baerboxer]

20 hours ago, simon43 said:

Seems like mob rule has taken over in the UK..... police deciding not to intervene..... rule of law broken time and time again.  I'm glad to have left the UK 18 years ago - it's gone to the dogs!

 

Been on that slippery slope for many years sadly. Police only allowed to enforce laws selectively. Political correctness more important.

 

The local force have said they will investigate this criminal damage. Let's see how far they get. Some very clear photos of those responsible.

 

Same in London. Some very clear photos of the violent thugs using this protest as cover for their own political agendas.

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, Bluespunk said:

I didn't remove the statue or break social distancing norms.

 

I support social distancing and lockdown precautions.

 

I also support the removal of statues of those vile individuals who profited from human misery. Not sure I would have done it this way, but I understand the feelings and motivations of those who did so.

 

See, not exclusive.

 

Do you understand that mob rule, mob violence, taking the law as they see it into their own hands, are completely against democracy?

 

Are you sure you understand the feelings and motivations of those who did so? Do you know them? Were they all good citizens outraged at someone's death thousands of miles away? Or might they have been political activists following their own agendas? Whichever, they must be identified and prosecuted.

[metisdead]

Some off topic posts about Islam have been removed.