How You Went from Faith to Unbelief in God

[bkk6060]

There are way too many fake Christians that use the religion for selfish reasons.  And, they are the most hypocritical people I have ever met in my life.

Also, the absurd notion that those who do not believe in Christian God are not going to heaven.

Traveling around the world I have witnessed many different religions some that have a much stronger and clearer message.   Trying to push only the Jesus agenda on everyone seems a farce.

[scorecard]

38 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

About the same time I stopped believing in father christmas and the tooth fairy, my whole world collapsed and I was left staring at reality.

 Best post this decade!!!

[ChouDoufu]

25 minutes ago, Pedrogaz said:

My path was the Catholic education system.....at age 12 or 13 I wanted to be a priest. By age 14, I realised that the church did not practice what Jesus preached and served only as an instrument to control people's lives particularly in the Middle Ages. 

I believe that the words of Jesus are the correct way to live as expressed in the Sermon on the Mount....but I don;t know any Christians who lives their lives remotely like Jesus reached. Christians usually selectively refer to the Old Testament to justify their horrible sinful behaviour. Jesus came to sweep away the old rules, laws and convenient. The OT has NO place in a Christian's life.

At school we also did the 4 proofs of god's existence and I managed to find a glaring hole in all of them, and the priest who taught us got increasingly frustrated with me as the lectures went on. I realised that the proofs of god's existence were BS....although one cannot rule out god's existence either....and I look at it the same way as Pascal did ie I try to look at things the way Jesus would for my moral principles.

 

the OT has no place?  no ten commandments?  no phrophecy?  no original sin and thus no need for jesus?

 

and did jesus really come to sweep away the old rules?  every jot and tittle?

[Card]

As you mature you realise that the things worth putting your energy and faith into must have either the bedrock of scientific evidence or at least stand up to reason. Religion never did that for me and no amount of indoctrination changed that. I never understood how so many people born into the pressure and propaganda (carrot and stick) of a particular religion could not see that they do not anymore have free will to take up other religions, despite what they think themselves. In all likelihood, the OP would be a convinced Buddhist if he was born a Thai, but he wasn't. 

[Rawairat]

At about 14 when I grew up and realised it was all BS, nothing to do with God not answering my prayers about nice Nina at the church I went to. Now I cannot understand how any rational person can believe it but each to his own. Basically I think it's a fear of death, how can such a magnificent human just disappear. Much better to believe in magical Gods, and unfortunately many people would be lost without some sort of religion.

[Irishrogue]

There are 2 things throughout human history that have caused noting but division Politics and Religion. 

[fvw53]

At this moment the leading astrophysicists of our times such as Lawrence Krauss (which are nearly all atheists) confess that we understand at maximum 5% of what happens in our universe (before I thought it was 25%)

I would not trust the diagnostic made by my any doctor if he could understand only 5% of my body....would you?

However there is also the opinion of Prof Michio Kaku :  replying to the question if he believed in God he once said : "the order in our universe is so stunning that there must be a Creator behind it...otherwise you have to believe it is possible that if a large heap of metal scrap is hit by a lightning ...it can produce a Boeing 747"

This means simply that humans still know virtually nothing about our universe despite the absolutely enormous  increase of data the last 50 years.

Atheism is an alternative form of faith because they too are more "believers" than most of them want to admit.

My conclusion : I follow the teachings of the great university professor George Lemaitre (also a Catholic priest) who is the father of the Big Bang theory ...He said science replies to the question "how" and religion replies to the question "why"

 

Edited June 14, 2020 by fvw53
typo

[joecoolfrog]

12 minutes ago, Card said:

As you mature you realise that the things worth putting your energy and faith into must have either the bedrock of scientific evidence or at least stand up to reason. Religion never did that for me and no amount of indoctrination changed that. I never understood how so many people born into the pressure and propaganda (carrot and stick) of a particular religion could not see that they do not anymore have free will to take up other religions, despite what they think themselves. In all likelihood, the OP would be a convinced Buddhist if he was born a Thai, but he wasn't. 

Precisely this !

99% of theists follow the religion they were born into , a lifetimes conviction dictated entirely by circumstance , absurd really.

[holy cow cm]

Believe in God but not in any Christian religion. Despise missionaries and people who feel the need to try and convert and teach it as the think they are better than all. The biggest ones I always yell at to go home and utterly hate in CM are those Mormons on their bicycles. False BS who are little cockroach leaches. I go to Thai Temples where I feel very comfortable. If I step inside a Church it makes me shake and cringe to all the high heavens. Gross! Although I do know some really nice Christian Thai, fire and brimstone ain't my thing. 

[Brunolem]

1 hour ago, bkk6060 said:

 

Also, the absurd notion that those who do not believe in Christian God are not going to heaven.

 

Exactly!

 

I have been to heaven many times...you just need to climb a few stairs in soi Diamond, Pattaya, and there you are...

 

[holy cow cm]

1 minute ago, Brunolem said:

Exactly!

 

I have been to heaven many times...you just need to climb a few stairs in soi Diamond, Pattaya, and there you are...

 

Amen!

[Tagged]

22 minutes ago, Irishrogue said:

There are 2 things throughout human history that have caused noting but division Politics and Religion. 

Tribe tools and also necesserry tools. If you blaim all negativity in the world on politics and politicians I feel sorry for you. Its a bit more complexed than just trow blaim on that for human greed and criminals who abusing people and the power.

[Brunolem]

14 minutes ago, fvw53 said:

At this moment the leading astrophysicists of our times such as Lawrence Krauss (which are nearly all atheists) confess that we understand at maximum 5% of what happens in our universe (before I thought it was 25%)

I would not trust the diagnostic made by my any doctor if he could understand only 5% of my body....would you?

However there is also the opinion of Prof Michio Kaku :  replying to the question if he believed in God he once said : "the order in our universe is so stunning that there must be a Creator behind it...otherwise you have to believe it is possible that if a large heap of metal scrap is hit by a lightning ...it can produce a Boeing 747"

This means simply that humans still know virtually nothing about our universe despite the absolutely enormous  increase of data the last 50 years.

Atheism is an alternative form of faith because they too are more "believers" than most of them want to admit.

My conclusion : I follow the teachings of the great university professor George Lemaitre (also a Catholic priest) who is the father of the Big Bang theory ...He said science replies to the question "how" and religion replies to the question "why"

 

There is a difference between religion and spirituality.

 

With religion, followers believe that there is a creator who has a privileged bond with humans (without explaining why he waited more than 13 billion years to bring them on stage, among other things).

 

Spirituality is to think that not everything is material and can be explained by mathematical formulas, that there is something (not someone) else in the universe, like some force giving a direction, and maybe an objective (which is not us).

 

 

[ChouDoufu]

26 minutes ago, fvw53 said:

At this moment the leading astrophysicists of our times such as Lawrence Krauss (which are nearly all atheists) confess that we understand at maximum 5% of what happens in our universe (before I thought it was 25%)

I would not trust the diagnostic made by my any doctor if he could understand only 5% of my body....would you?

However there is also the opinion of Prof Michio Kaku :  replying to the question if he believed in God he once said : "the order in our universe is so stunning that there must be a Creator behind it...otherwise you have to believe it is possible that if a large heap of metal scrap is hit by a lightning ...it can produce a Boeing 747"

This means simply that humans still know virtually nothing about our universe despite the absolutely enormous  increase of data the last 50 years.

Atheism is an alternative form of faith because they too are more "believers" than most of them want to admit.

My conclusion : I follow the teachings of the great university professor George Lemaitre (also a Catholic priest) who is the father of the Big Bang theory ...He said science replies to the question "how" and religion replies to the question "why"

 

 

 

there is no "faith" involved in atheism.

 

the theist claims there are gods, without proof, and believes on faith.

the atheist reserves judgement, says "i don't know," but give me sufficient evidence and i, too shall believe, but not on faith.

 

 

 

Edited June 14, 2020 by ChouDoufu

[tandor]

On 6/12/2020 at 5:42 PM, Brunolem said:

I try to "believe" as little as possible, and to "know" as much as possible.

 

The more you acquire knowledge, the less the need for supernatural explanations.

 

I never was convinced by religion anyway.

 

I remember telling my father, when I was still in school, that if there really was A God, all the humans would be aware of this God, and there wouldn't be competing (often fighting each other) religions.

..good bed-time stories.

[talahtnut]

Religions are the oldest and biggest fraud

on the planet, Catholic church worth can

only be estimated in billions,  C of E largest

land owner second only to the Crown, more

billions.

Only the poor and humble can enter the

gates of Heaven, so hand over your stuff.

Gods Word is 'Profit'.

[nausea]

It's metaphorical, no-one can exist in a truly nihilist state, it leads to suicide. Belief in God is Darwinian. Personally, I admit this, so though I carry on like life had some meaning, I know at heart, it's useless; indeed, Sisyphus pushing his rock up his hill.

[Tony125]

1 hour ago, JensenZ said:

It seems there's a fair few angry people posting here, that obviously had bad experiences with religion at some point in their life.

 

I'm going to give you a different take on this. I actually believe, beyond doubt (in my mind) that the Earth, Universe and mankind were created by a God, or the God, or a supernatural entity, for want of a better word.

 

The problem is, knowing that makes me even less likely to follow him. As a supernatural being with unlimited powers, why does he watch by while the whole world suffers (wars, genocides, earthquakes and other natural disasters, starvation, poverty, persecution etc etc)? I don't see the love Christians constantly speak of. Why would I want to spend eternity with an entity with no compassion for his own creation, who just stands by and watches them suffer, just because his original man and woman (Adam & Eve) sinned?

 

Christians make a big deal about Jesus being persecuted and crucified. What is the big deal about that considering he is supernatural and knew he was coming back anyway? Other people took a longer to die on these crosses, so supernatural intervention even shortened his period of suffering. 

 

So in a nutshell, what is the point of all this? What is it you want? My mother and my older brother are so stressed out about going to heaven, but it doesn't seem all that enticing to me.

The expression and song is " Everyone want's to go to heaven , but nobody want's to die "

[TKDfella]

On 6/12/2020 at 6:31 PM, Sujo said:

My parents took me to church every sunday. I was even an altar boy.

 

When i turned 13 my father gave me the choice. Sometimes i went, others i didnt. As i matured i realised it was just brainwashing.

 

Im an not an atheist as that would mean you could prove God doesnt exist. Im agnostic, which for me means i really dont give a toss one way or the other.

 

Each to their own, and i mean to their own. Dont spread any word, im not interested in hearing it.

This is very similar to my early experiences. My Sunday schooling was in the so called 'High Church of England' which practised Mass and Confirmation but all in English and not Latin. I was Confirmed at the age of 13 and it was the very moment a Bishop laid hands on my head I thought 'Hold on...is this right?' From that moment on I began to doubt and asked questions As time went on, research convinced me otherwise. But I don't usually argue with those who have chosen to believe in such a supernatural form since such arguments ultimately end up full circle...they still believe and I don't, Ha!

[Brunolem]

30 minutes ago, Tony125 said:

The expression and song is " Everyone want's to go to heaven , but nobody want's to die "

Or there is that other expression:

 

Good guys go to Heaven, bad guys go to Pattaya!

 

[holy cow cm]

On 6/12/2020 at 5:12 PM, fittobethaied said:

I promise not to condemn anyone

That is one of the greatest problems of Christianized religions. Condemnation. Same as the Muslims of Islam do. Don't worry about anything. There are good people and then there are black souls/bad people, but when you believe you are higher and better than others and then condemn for it because of a religion, then you are essentially an arrogant bad person. No one is better than anyone because they say their faith is the best.

Edited June 14, 2020 by holy cow cm

[Walker88]

1 hour ago, fvw53 said:

At this moment the leading astrophysicists of our times such as Lawrence Krauss (which are nearly all atheists) confess that we understand at maximum 5% of what happens in our universe (before I thought it was 25%)

I would not trust the diagnostic made by my any doctor if he could understand only 5% of my body....would you?

However there is also the opinion of Prof Michio Kaku :  replying to the question if he believed in God he once said : "the order in our universe is so stunning that there must be a Creator behind it...otherwise you have to believe it is possible that if a large heap of metal scrap is hit by a lightning ...it can produce a Boeing 747"

This means simply that humans still know virtually nothing about our universe despite the absolutely enormous  increase of data the last 50 years.

Atheism is an alternative form of faith because they too are more "believers" than most of them want to admit.

My conclusion : I follow the teachings of the great university professor George Lemaitre (also a Catholic priest) who is the father of the Big Bang theory ...He said science replies to the question "how" and religion replies to the question "why"

 

You either take out of context or misinterpret the sayings you quote. Lawrence Krauss absolutely does not believe in any gods.

 

Even if one were to assume some creative force, why the wild leap to 'one god, my god, and these rules from my book'?  Why must a god be 'good', when even the one people believe in causes tornadoes, tsunamis, childhood cancer, etc. as part of some crazy Master Plan? All the gods in which people believe are pretty nasty and possess the very worst traits the worst humans possess.

 

Also, why can't there be two gods, ten gods, teams of gods who take turns creating competing Universes and then see whose is best? Why not a bunch of gods so superior that they care as much about some piddling little creatures on one planet in a galaxy of a trillion stars in a universe of a trillion galaxies as we do about individual amoeba?

 

"Faith" requires both a lack of scientific knowledge as well as an unfettered willingness to take gigantic leaps, so that a 'believer' can end up with exactly what that person needs to be able to fall asleep at night.

[leeedwards]

I’ve often wondered how god gave his only begotten son. Did his mother have problems during childbirth thereby leaving her unable to have any more. But wait a second, Jesus is god. Oh ok. So he sent himself down to cover for his creations, doing exactly what he wants (everything is god’s will), tortures and kills himself in order to wipe the slate clean (supposedly already done with a flood and some kind of boat), and the rules themselves were his rules.  Yet the all knowing amazing god still didn’t get it right as we’re still waiting for the final episode. Ask and you will receive??? Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of parents who have watched their child die die in pain from numerous conditions, which he obviously created, all the while praying and begging him to help. 

Need I go on?

[Caldera]

Luckily, I never had this problem myself. When I was dragged to church as a child, I just went through the motions as expected from me and wondered to myself what that nonsense is all about. I've never found out, so once I was no longer a child that could be dragged to church, I reduced my visits to the absolute minimum deemed acceptable: weddings, funerals, the likes.

 

I haven't missed anything since, and I'm still wondering: Am I missing something substantial, or are the believers weak and gullible sheep who need an imaginary friend to make it through their lives?

 

[Walker88]

56 minutes ago, nausea said:

It's metaphorical, no-one can exist in a truly nihilist state, it leads to suicide. Belief in God is Darwinian. Personally, I admit this, so though I carry on like life had some meaning, I know at heart, it's useless; indeed, Sisyphus pushing his rock up his hill.

This is where I disagree. We are capable of enjoying existence in what we experience and by enjoying other creatures who share time and space with us. THAT is its meaning, and frankly, it's a good enough reason for existence.

 

From the beginning of time to my birth I didn't exist. I was maybe two years into existence before I was even aware I existed. The time I was "unaware" didn't bother me a lick, so the eternity coming when I will no longer exist will bother me as little. I'm in no hurry to get back to non-existence, but until it comes I'm going to enjoy this ride.

[NoshowJones]

On 6/12/2020 at 5:42 PM, Brunolem said:

I try to "believe" as little as possible, and to "know" as much as possible.

 

The more you acquire knowledge, the less the need for supernatural explanations.

 

I never was convinced by religion anyway.

 

I remember telling my father, when I was still in school, that if there really was A God, all the humans would be aware of this God, and there wouldn't be competing (often fighting each other) religions.

In Scotland there are two main religions,  a part of one holds walks every so often through their hatred of the other, there is loads of bitterness with most of it coming from the one side, and the thing is, they both believe in the same god.

[Brunolem]

9 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

In Scotland there are two main religions,  a part of one holds walks every so often through their hatred of the other, there is loads of bitterness with most of it coming from the one side, and the thing is, they both believe in the same god.

Who, by the way, is also the god of islam and judaism!

 

That's a lot of wars and deaths in the name of just one god...

[Walker88]

26 minutes ago, leeedwards said:

I’ve often wondered how god gave his only begotten son. Did his mother have problems during childbirth thereby leaving her unable to have any more. But wait a second, Jesus is god. Oh ok. So he sent himself down to cover for his creations, doing exactly what he wants (everything is god’s will), tortures and kills himself in order to wipe the slate clean (supposedly already done with a flood and some kind of boat), and the rules themselves were his rules.  Yet the all knowing amazing god still didn’t get it right as we’re still waiting for the final episode. Ask and you will receive??? Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of parents who have watched their child die die in pain from numerous conditions, which he obviously created, all the while praying and begging him to help. 

Need I go on?

You got it all wrong, my son. Let me explain.

 

God was sitting around from Minus Forever until 13.8 billion years ago and suddenly was feeling randy. He needed a date, so he created a gigantic Universe of trillions of galaxies, each with trillions of stars, then on one planet orbiting one star in one galaxy he juiced some primordial soup that eventually formed protein structures that formed one cell structures that formed multi-cell structures that formed.....amoebas......lemurs.....homo erectus....Shirley MacLaine....a guy named Joey and his main squeeze....who god eventually knocked up on his first date.

 

This god also built a country club in the sky, but had to come up with an initiation ceremony, so---being the deadbeat dad he was and caring little for his kid---made up this procedure where if he could get the Romans to slaughter the kid, he would let the other amoeba---whoops---'his loving children' on this one planet in one solar system in one galaxy into his country club, so long as they followed some rules which, inter alia, involved telling this god guy how great he is and thanking him all the time and never making a swear word out of his name. Along with the galaxies and stars god created the f-word if anyone needed a right and proper swear. I mean, only a just and all loving god thinks of everything like that.

 

Get it now?

Edited June 14, 2020 by Walker88

[RichardColeman]

I used to have a pastor (quite progressive) that actually believed that the bible days of creation, were the same - just described differently - as evolution.

 

But, when I pointed out the nonsensical idea of God deciding to create plants on day 3 and the sun they needed for survival on day 4 I got thrown out

[allanos]

I think the OP should keep his beliefs to himself, and cease his attempts to proselytise. I might also pass on to him that the word he was looking for in his post was "tenet" and not "tenant".  Be that as it may, I also believe that, whatever "God" one has a belief in, a Universal Force, a Magical Power, a Grand Architect, "evolution" whatever that may mean, a person called "Jesus" has nothing much to do with any of them. 

 

The biblical stories of the New Testament, which is, itself, full of inconsistencies, the earliest of those writings coming 40-60 years after the birth of this so-called Jesus, and some, around 200 years later.  This "bible" was assembled to give a spurious historical foundation to Christianity, a bit like the recent death of Mr Floyd, one of life's losers, a criminal no less, who triggered worldwide uprisings and riots by believers in a faith called BLM.  Is this the kind of "hero" the "movement" needs?

 

However, Mr Floyd's incarnation cannot be queried, but that of Jesus can.  There is no true, historical evidence that this man ever existed.  The name Jesus was prevalent 2000 years ago, and there were many of them evangelising their own beliefs around the same time. 

 

The man the Christian movement follows today may be a cobbling together of a few of these.  I would recommend a book called "The Jesus Mysteries", which displays facts about earlier Faiths borrowing (hijacking) certain elements from those of even earlier times, like virgin birth, and so on, for their particular "god".  At best, the Jesus believed in today is like Robin Hood or King Arthur, likely not historical, a fabrication who could be a number of persons rolled into one character.