Perspicacious view, CV.

True, I lived on the quiet side of KPG for a few years. Then the 24-hour techno craze hit my area and I left for the quiet side of Samui. As you noted in a previous post, the Peyton Place scenario is endemic in these areas. The farang residents, and I will be bashed for saying this but English women in particular, are often horrid gossipmongers armed with malicious intent. One example: When one of my dogs died, a "friend" stopped by, heard my news and passed it along the way to everyone she knew. By the time she passed this info and her view of my current state of affairs through the villages all along to the other side of the island, like a Chinese whisper, the news was that I was so depressed I had killed my own dog and was probably going to off myself soon.

I did enjoy meeting some tourists, because they brought in the freshness and vibrancy of new ideas, trends, thoughts, words. I found the long-term farang mired in a form of self-necrotising hatred, slagging each other off one week, only to be kissy face the next because there is no one else to talk to. Hypocrites.

So, you weren't that keen on the place then.

Loved the place. Pity about the farang people.

possibly it depends on the type or age group of people you are mixing with too.

My group were all under 30 ( at the time) a mix of thai men & women & long term holidayers who have turned into long term residents. Some have hooked up with thais & some haven't, nearly all have started their own businesses now to fund their life there & the thais all own their own businesses too. We farang all started out as the good time group & progressed to renting/building houses instead of rooms, buying bikes/cars instead of renting etc & over the course of the 10 years have all stayed in contact but all now do their own thing. There were no "whoremongers" as we were mainly women but the guys may have payed for it but it was very discreet & any bar visitis were done alone or with other guys so I can't coment on that but they never rocked up with random bg's.

Our relationships aren't as "close" as they were in the early years cause we aren't all out on the piss every night & some of us have moved back to the west full time but a lot remain on the island & live "normal" lives. Whenever we are in the same country will meet up & spend a lot of time with each other & I have a lot of people stay wth us from all over europe, people who make the effort to visit the Uk when they are back in their own countries for a short period, as we have visited them too. I even have a couple of aussies coimng over at some point this year.

There was never any need for the type of back stabbing or gossip others have talked about as we were all in the same boat basically, young, on limited budgets & there to have a laugh. A lot of people came & went & we never heard from them again but the ones who are still in contact have got too much history & stuck around for several years, they are all doing ok in their own way that jealousy doens't come into it either (none that I have noticed anyway) & although when all on island someone would have the occasional spat it would blow over like any other argument between freinds anywhere in the world.

I agree about the stages & thats where a lot of our group fell by the wayside, they became too bitter about life in LOS & the reality of the country was too much to handle. I always had a good grasp of what the place was about & never really bought into the whole, thai people are so wonderful & thailand is the unltimate paradise but then I was having a laugh for minimal money & it meant that working 10 weeks a year in the UK could allow me to sit around drinking beer on the beach for the rest of the year. I knew it woudn't be forever & I never expected or wanted to marry a native. Just happened as these things do. Toxic people just didn't last long in our little group as they would be hard pressed to find anyone to feed off of so would inevitably move on to a more "bitchy or petty" group & our staus quo would go back to normal. Dunno, just my own take on it based on my own experiences!

I don't live in hadrin, never have so couldn't tell you about expats living there as I have minimal contact with them. Those are the people Jet is describing, not in my social circle. And yes, I am a bit of a snob. My husband comes from a well-to-do highly respected local family. Even if I had many friends from the beach boy crowd my husband wouldn't have been willing to socialize with their boyfriends. Thailand is a class oriented society and small communities even more so. Either you are from here or your not from here and beach boys not from here are at the bottom of the local social ladder.

Regardless, most of those girls are far younger than myself and since I don't party, don't have kids and don't get involved in their little society, don't know anything about any of them. They wouldn't get involved in back stabbing gossip about myself, since they don't know me, nor would I bother with them, since I don't know them either.

Besides, most of these kinds of girls don't last very long, the disillusionment sets in and off they go. Same with alot of other people, I think.

I always tell people who tell me how lucky I am to live in Paradise, "Remember, even Paradise had a snake".

Is this thread now about how farang people perceive you or is it about adapting to living in Thailand and Thai values.

If it is important to you and your self image that other farangs accept you, it doesn't matter where you are you will always feel a dissapointment as relationships based on image are vapid.

Isn't this the reason a lot of people leave the west in the first place?

I don't care what the majority of people think about me or say behind my back and I certainly don't think about it for long enough to cloud my future .

I have only spent six months in Thailand, but I did find this thread very interesting listening to some of you talking about the pitfalls of Thai living and ways to adapt and focus on the positive elements of living in Thailand where I plan to return, probably for many years to come.

good point robski, if you just live how you want & have the people you want involved in your life then I think you can be happy anywhere. It's when you start to get too involved in the gossip, negativity etc yourself that it starts to become a problem for you IMO.

Everyone I know with satified, happy lives in thailand have just enough money to not have to worry about money (not rich but enough to suit their needs), enough friends to call on in times of trouble but who live their lives exactly how they want & not how others expect them to live. (within the law of course)

They don't need the opinion of strangers on how to educate their kids or what car to drive or how much money they "should" be earning according to other expats to live well. In fact one of the happiest people I know has a small 3 room houses, a moped & enough money to have a few nights out a month, they eat local with the odd farang meal thrown in & manage a trip back to their own country every year or two. To others they would be living a shitty life but for them, they love it & want for nothing in their own scale of wants & needs.

If you mix with the Jones's then you will be expected to keep up with them IMO & if you mix with a bunch of vapid people with nothing better to do all day than sit around gossiping or whinging about life then you will eventually have to join in or cut them loose.? Entirely up to the individual but IMO some people like gossip & a soap opera lifestyle & thrive on it where as ohers find it draining. I chose to mix with the latter in any country.

About the assimilation. The IMO it depends what you mean by assimilation? I think learning a bit of thai & being mindful of local customs is important to get along in your local community but if you lived in one of the farang ghettos NR mentioned then maybe you wouldn't feel the need. If the only thais you came into contact with were your maid, driver, cleaner etc who all speak english & you only mix with other expats & go only to expat places then you could probably get by without knowing or doing anything thai related. Again, depends on how you wnat to live & in what enviroment. But for us living/lived a simpler life in thailand then a certain amount of intergraton rather than assimilation is needed.

robski, perhaps a bit of both.

Adapting to Thailand is necessary, I think, for long term survival and happiness. I can't comprehend that people live in this country with minimal contact with Thai people. Why bother then? I don't live in Thailand because its cheap or I am looking for an escape, so guess I can't really relate to people who do. Hence, my belief that some adjustment is necessary. Maybe other people live a different lifestyle to my own (I am sure many do) but I can only relate my own experiences.

And my experience has been that those who've stayed the longest and seemed the happiest are those who have joined the local community and learned the local language. I live in a small place and those kinds of things make a big difference. However, those who've lived here a long time and seem happy are also those who stay true to who they really are, and do not become 100% Thai as Crow Boy suggests. Which, frankly, is impossible anyway.

living in Thailand where I plan to return, probably for many years to come.

to do that u gotta be nice to the locals though

living in Thailand where I plan to return, probably for many years to come.

to do that u gotta be nice to the locals though

Actually Mig that is not so hard to do.

Because mostly the "locals" are nice to you.

That's my experience anyway.

This is the first opportunity for me to get back on line over the weekend. I was surprised and pleased to read the very interesting views of the members who posted, thankyou for taking the time and effort. There were differences of view which is to be expected but the central theme remains constant.

I wrote in my opening post I put this message here and not in general forum because I didn't want some dweeb highjacking it. Everyone who has replied has put a sensible and thought out response. You are all people I respect and while I may jostle some of you every now and then I really do appreciate your views.

Over the weekend I happened to luck into a group of people who were watching the MotoGP which is a passion of mine. Oddly a lot of them post on TV but I didn't realise who they were from their avatars. Some have been here for 6 months and some for many years. The thing is that none of them are the brothel creaper/bar hounds and all have been living relatively quietly around the Chiang Mai area. After the race a couple of us were talking and our consensus of opinion is:

Active - to survive long term you must have an occupation. Playing golf is a recreation and becomes a fanatacism for some of the expats here in Thailand but to go golfing every day and the accociated costs/drinking/partying etc makes them very single focussed. To add to what November Rain wrote, these guys will shell out 1,000 Baht for a game of golf, tip the caddie (if she is cute and plays along with their games) another 200B but getting 20 Baht out of them for a kid selling flowers? No chance. Donate to the soi dog rescue - no way. Donate blood - would anyone want it? Not going to happen. They will sit in the bar, flirt with the girls, part with another couple of hundred in beer, then tootle off home in the Toyota Explorer. I have a job which at the moment is driving me insane but before working here, I was teaching (volunteer) the monks at Wat Uumong and Wat Suan Dok which is attached to Chiang Mai University. I also was at University learning Thai so I had something that became my job. We are often classified by what we do - when I was an ajaan and then when it was realised I was teaching monks I had good standing. I lived in a Thai apartment which was half the cost of living at Hillside whatever but was really nice. When I did my TEFL course I did a practical teaching experience in a village outside of Chiang Rai which was weird and fun. My teaching was crap and my Thai worse but we got on really well. I had 4 classes a day teaching kids aged 5 - 12 and then helped adults (police/government workers) in the evening. I didn't get paid but I got fed everyday by someone coming to my room with food. I loved it but had to leave because the Dept of Ed would not approve the Headmasters request to keep me permanently.

Cultural: I think we expats need to become aware and culturally sensitive to Thailand. That includes the basics of smiling and being polite which is something I am noticing is missing from many walking around town. I go to temple because I made a concious decision some years back that Buddhism works for me. That does not mean that I think all farung living here should be Buddhist or should even have any religious belief but for the majority of us who have a Thai partner it becames something that we need to at least be sensitive to. I know farung who refuse to go to the temple but is their choice and they are entitled to that but they also actively try to prevent their partner from going. Religion and cultural events are hugely important to the majority of Thais.

Financial: I left a very well paid job as a consulting engineer in Singapore working out of Australia. My income now is the lowest I have had in 20 years. I know if I left here I could with some considerable effort to get up to standard get back into that level but I don't want to. I work hard now and get paid comparatively well for Thailand but I don't have the BMW anymore, I live in a modest house that I rent for 4,000 baht per month, I eat Thai food and occassionally buy a farung meal and thoroughly enjoy it. I am happier and more content than I have been for many years. It is not idylic but I am content.

CB

Excellent post CB.

I aspire to at least try to get up to some of your achievements, but I'm not holding my breath ( sadly over the years I have got to know myself quite well ).

One thing for sure in my longed for retirement days in Thailand, it will be important to give something back to the local community and posts like yours add to my confiction.

Excellent post CB.

I aspire to at least try to get up to some of your achievements, but I'm not holding my breath ( sadly over the years I have got to know myself quite well ).

One thing for sure in my longed for retirement days in Thailand, it will be important to give something back to the local community and posts like yours add to my confiction.

I think we all have things to offer to our adopted home. The three best jobs I have had in Thailand were unpaid or subsistence level. Despite not earning any money per se I managed to live comfortably and happily.

CB

I think there are many members (in the general forum) that are ready to criticise ex-pats that live at an income level that is comparitively lower than them, but I think their criticism is a thinly disguised way of boasting of their own high income level.

Sad really, seeing as it's only relative to the income levels in Thailand, but whatever floats your boat I guess.

I don't earn a great deal in the west, at least it doesn't seem to go very far, in Thailand I can have a nice apartment, use a decent gym, have internet and cable, nights out, great meals etc. etc. which would cost me at least five times more in the west, if i could afford it at all.

Eating where Thais eat, is a great experience in itself and although my Thai is very poor, it helps to make the bridge to the people whose country I am a guest in.

Ok I'm a townie and I need some comforts, I lived in Pattaya which most people hate, but I met some great people there through the Pattaya forum, there is also a thread about 'hidden ethnic restaurants' of which Pattaya has many due to it's diverse population, and it was great to try different foods and go to restaurants where not many farangs went and be made very welcome by the staff.

Ok I've probably lost a bit of cred by mentioning Patters as it's hardly a highpoint of Thai culture, but even there there is culture to be found if you look past the neon lights and avoid the stereotypical expats. And when you've had enough of Patters there's always Trat and Koh Chang down the road.

When I come back I want to learn more Thai and get even more into the culture, partly inspired by this thread and also my own ambition, but also out of respect for Thai people.

Robski - on your next visit it might be worth your while popping up to Chiang Mai for a while. Much more laid back than Pattaya but a good place to relax.

Robski - on your next visit it might be worth your while popping up to Chiang Mai for a while. Much more laid back than Pattaya but a good place to relax.

I'd reinforce that by saying, go anywhere north or east of the Ptty Bkk region, it is completely different.

I'm not going to knock Pattaya (I don't ever remember doing so) I have friends from the UK who visit Thailand every now and again, and that is the place I go to see them (most don't know about buses or internal flights) it's fine for a few days, but if I lived there, I think that I would reach that burn out point quite quickly.

Having said that, I couldn't live in Blackpool either, it just isn't my cup of tea .... give me the laid back, mai pben rai, way of life, where being unable to find your lighter is probably the biggest crisis you are going to suffer on any given day. I like to don the good threads and party, but it's oh so nice to get home to the baggy T-shirt, flip-flops, squeaky bicycle and doggie clan.

And I think that is one of the main reasons for me, this place is my home, and it feels like home, I look out of the window when I am sat at this infernal device and see a multitude variety of trees, kids playing, dogs sleeping, clouds forming, cows and buffalo being escorted to the fields ....... how could any of that stress me out?

I'm with you CB. I came from Wall Street and moved from a huge antique-filled flat to a one-room bungalow with rock corbels, uncluttered sunset views, vermin, and stray dogs. Bt3,000 a month and I was never happier. I enjoyed everyone's company except the people who tried to push their "class" on others. Hey, I worked on deals with royalty, billionaires, the world's movers and shakers. So what. They are people, and the higher they were in whatever ranking, the more down to earth they were, too. It's the almost-there's that are the nasties.

And the big high-class families I knew about on KPG and Samui were much respected, because they were both mafia clans.

Chiang Mai could definately be on the cards, I plan to visit there next time and see what it's all about. Cheers.

My strategy is to leave in 2 weeks.

Works for me!

Chiang Mai could definately be on the cards, I plan to visit there next time and see what it's all about. Cheers.

Come to Chiang Mai Robski - apart from me most of the expats are pretty nice people

CB

I'm with you CB. I came from Wall Street and moved from a huge antique-filled flat to a one-room bungalow with rock corbels, uncluttered sunset views, vermin, and stray dogs. Bt3,000 a month and I was never happier. I enjoyed everyone's company except the people who tried to push their "class" on others. Hey, I worked on deals with royalty, billionaires, the world's movers and shakers. So what. They are people, and the higher they were in whatever ranking, the more down to earth they were, too. It's the almost-there's that are the nasties.

And the big high-class families I knew about on KPG and Samui were much respected, because they were both mafia clans.

I never worked in Wall Street - my vistis were to White Plains for AT&T which is a tad different In Singapore and Hong Kong I had drivers who took me everywhere because the company would not let me drive. I was always polite to the staff and treated them with respect. Here I see guys treat their wife, girlfriend, mia noi, mia chao or all four like they are garbage. I see them speak with the kids selling flowers in the bars or on the street like they are pond scum instead of hard little workers trying to keep their family from starving. I listen to them in restaurants and shudder with the way they speak down to the staff or their vulgarity. I am not saying by any way shape or form that I am better than them but for some reason these guys seem to manage to live here for 10 plus years and so many really nice people can't cope. I don't understand why.

I once had to wait at the Immigration Office in Bangkok (unusual thougth that may sound) while the staff sorted out a relatively minor but complicated error in my visa. I listened to the staff and what they had to put up with from people who are visitors to Thailand. It made me ashamed to be a farung and understand why so many Immigration Officials treat us the way they do.

CB

I once had to wait at the Immigration Office in Bangkok (unusual thougth that may sound) while the staff sorted out a relatively minor but complicated error in my visa. I listened to the staff and what they had to put up with from people who are visitors to Thailand. It made me ashamed to be a farung and understand why so many Immigration Officials treat us the way they do.

CB

Yep, know that scenario well. Keep being polite is all one can do.

I once had to wait at the Immigration Office in Bangkok (unusual thougth that may sound) while the staff sorted out a relatively minor but complicated error in my visa. I listened to the staff and what they had to put up with from people who are visitors to Thailand. It made me ashamed to be a farung and understand why so many Immigration Officials treat us the way they do.

CB

Yep, know that scenario well. Keep being polite is all one can do.

And smile.

Perspicacious view, CV.

True, I lived on the quiet side of KPG for a few years. Then the 24-hour techno craze hit my area and I left for the quiet side of Samui. As you noted in a previous post, the Peyton Place scenario is endemic in these areas. The farang residents, and I will be bashed for saying this but English women in particular, are often horrid gossipmongers armed with malicious intent. One example: When one of my dogs died, a "friend" stopped by, heard my news and passed it along the way to everyone she knew. By the time she passed this info and her view of my current state of affairs through the villages all along to the other side of the island, like a Chinese whisper, the news was that I was so depressed I had killed my own dog and was probably going to off myself soon.

I did enjoy meeting some tourists, because they brought in the freshness and vibrancy of new ideas, trends, thoughts, words. I found the long-term farang mired in a form of self-necrotising hatred, slagging each other off one week, only to be kissy face the next because there is no one else to talk to. Hypocrites.

That is the reason many farangs do not smile and look at each other in the shopping malls. Would prefer to avoid the conflicts and just remain friends with just a few trusted locals. In the Korat area there are more people who choose to remain on there own in their little village communities, than those who choose to socialize.

Edit: BTW I socialize with both the Thai and farang community and always have done really. I have taught myself Thai to the point I can communicate to a reasonable degree, which has been an enormous help in living here for the past 10 years. I'm one of those that believe it you don't like it here go home. Thailand is by no means perfect, but it's my home now, God and government willing.

Come to Chiang Mai Robski - apart from me most of the expats are pretty nice people

CB

I truly believe that......

I once had to wait at the Immigration Office in Bangkok (unusual thougth that may sound) while the staff sorted out a relatively minor but complicated error in my visa. I listened to the staff and what they had to put up with from people who are visitors to Thailand. It made me ashamed to be a farung and understand why so many Immigration Officials treat us the way they do.

CB

Yep, know that scenario well. Keep being polite is all one can do.

And that only happens in Thailand...... for the rest of the world you can be as belligerent and obnoxious as you want?

Don't think so.

Last night after I got home and before the electricity blew out in the storm I did a head count of all the friends I have know pretty well since I have been in Thailand on this round - three years and three months. I didn't count the ones from previous sojounes. I also didn't include the aquaintances, and people I met when they came over on holiday/short visit etc.

Out of the total of some fifty people - there is now only one left and he moved from Chiang Mai to Phuket some 6 months ago.

Just as the electricity went out I realised what the problem they had living in Thailand long term - it has nothing to do with Immigration, language, social customs, integration into a foreign society - it is knowing me! I am the only connecting factor they all have and they all suffered not from Thailand Fever or Expat Disease they got Crowboy Contagion.

Ahh crap - I need to get out of this place before everyone leaves

CB

I once had to wait at the Immigration Office in Bangkok (unusual thougth that may sound) while the staff sorted out a relatively minor but complicated error in my visa. I listened to the staff and what they had to put up with from people who are visitors to Thailand. It made me ashamed to be a farung and understand why so many Immigration Officials treat us the way they do.

CB

Yep, know that scenario well. Keep being polite is all one can do.

And that only happens in Thailand...... for the rest of the world you can be as belligerent and obnoxious as you want?

Don't think so.

Thaddeus - not sure if I am understanding your post correctly but no it is not acceptable in any part of the world. However I think that in places such as Singapore, Hong Kong, Malaysia most of the expats seem to behave better than here. This is of course a generalisation and there are obvious exceptions. In Thailand however there seems to be a very strong undercurrent of expats perceiving themselves as much superior to the local population for a variety of reasons. I noticed the same thing in Laos and Cambodia. I think it is partly because expats consider the locals in these countries, including Thailand, as being inferior therefore to be treated with contempt. In Singapore where the average local speaks at least three languages and in Hong Kong where the majority speak 2-3 variations of Chinese plus English it is less common.

CB

I have lived here for many years and the great majority of my freinds from the old days are still here including Blinky Bill and Ajarn.

Places such as HK, Singers etc attract people in the main on economic grounds. Thailand on the other hand, attracts a great deal of dreamers and other folk seeking solace from the pressure of home, HK Singers etc. When the dream is over and they wake up...............quite a number move on looking for the nirvarna they will never find.

Places such as HK, Singers etc attract people in the main on economic grounds. Thailand on the other hand, attracts a great deal of dreamers and other folk seeking solace from the pressure of home, HK Singers etc. When the dream is over and they wake up...............quite a number move on looking for the nirvarna they will never find.

I think you are correct - different style of country that attracts a different style of people.

Makes me feel better than my earlier post, that it is knowing me that causes them to leave

CB