Pro lockdown advocates, what's your solution for unemployment, homeless and no food?

[fredwiggy]

Just now, BritManToo said:

Death of all those susceptible is the ultimate answer IMHO.

The quicker they die, the sooner I can go on holiday again.

Ever hear of the word Karma?

[BritManToo]

Just now, fredwiggy said:

Ever hear of the word Karma?

I'm already dying ..... Karma can't hurt me!

About a year left ........ maybe 2 or 3, 6 would be impossibe, nobody in my family made it that far (70).

 

But to destroy the world so a few of the old and sick last another year is madness.

Edited June 29, 2020 by BritManToo

[redwood1]

The whole Covid madness is a scam.....Has been from day one.....
Official covid numbers are a scam....Has been from day one...

Mask wearing is a scam...has been from day one....

Social distancing is a scam...has been from day one...

 

But about 95% of people are buying into the scam

so

I predict things will need to get much much worse to help wake people up....

[JackThompson]

16 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Just to let you know, young are dying from Covid..................https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/08/young-people-coronavirus-deaths/

Yes...

Quote

Data on more than 1,400 hospitalizations released Wednesday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention showed that just over 25 percent of people hospitalized with covid-19 were under age 50. Most of these young people suffered from underlying conditions such as asthma, diabetes and hypertension. But at least seven for whom the CDC had data had no outside health problems, underscoring that a small fraction of severe cases remain hard to explain.

7 of 1400 - 0.5% - "under 50" - whom they don't know what the co-morbidity was.  Maybe genetic. 

In any case, not a reason to kill many, many more and do possibly un-recoverable damage to our economic-system and liberties, with lockdowns. 

[fredwiggy]

8 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Yes...

7 of 1400 - 0.5% - "under 50" - whom they don't know what the co-morbidity was.  Maybe genetic. 

In any case, not a reason to kill many, many more and do possibly un-recoverable damage to our economic-system and liberties, with lockdowns. 

Where I'm from in Texas, they opened up and are paying the price. Americans aren't stupid. Just arrogant to the core. Freedom to us (them) means I can do whatever i want. That is why so many are again sick. If trump would have locked things down instead of hesitating, the covid would have been stopped in it's tracks and not had the chance to spread so far. Now with the first wave still going, they opened things up, and this, along with protesting where most aren't wearing masks, concerts by country singers like Chris Rice (completely unnecessary except to the greedy like him) and bars being opened where people , drinking and getting loud and spreading droplets all over, will see thousands more sick and a lot dead, all because people couldn't wait and Trump didn't have the intelligence to close things down immediately. (We have this under control). The government can issue money (more, they print it) to it's citizens so people can stay home, people can be ordered to wear masks to go shopping, and things can get under control.  People and businesses have to work and be open for sure, but if more people listened to the rules, others wouldn't suffer.

Edited June 29, 2020 by fredwiggy

[JackThompson]

3 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Where I'm from in Texas, they opened up and are paying the price. Americans aren't stupid. Just arrogant to the core. Freedom to us (them) means I can do whatever i want. That is why so many are again sick. If trump would have locked things down instead of hesitating, the covid would have been stopped in it's tracks and not had the chance to spread so far. Now with the first wave still going, they opened things up, and this, along with protesting where most aren't wearing masks, concerts by country singers like Chris Rice (completely unnecessary except to the greedy like him) and bars being opened where people , drinking and getting loud and spreading droplets all over, will see thousands more sick and a lot dead, all because people couldn't wait and Trump didn't have the intelligence to close things down immediately. (We have this under control). The government can issue money (more, they print it) to it's citizens so people can stay home, people can be ordered to wear masks to go shopping, and things can get under control. At least until a vaccine can be delivered.

People at high-risk should self-isolate, is the lesson.  If Trump had cut off Europe at the same time as China, that would have been better - but still just delaying things, most likely. 

 

No - staying at home until a dangerous vaccine is fast-tracked and forced on people with almost no chance of even being slightly-sick from this virus is not an option.  People should be willing to do whatever it takes to fight that.

[chilly07]

It's not an either or.

Peaks of infection need lockdown.

Troughs allow the economy to open up.

Remove either and apocalypse happens.

Astute Governments balance the two.

Countries without see disasterously high death tolls and we all know who they are.

 

[tribalfusion001]

1 hour ago, brain150 said:

If you get your information from the BBC, CNN or The NATION ????

then you could actually believe that there is a Pandemic going on.

 

If you bother to look at the real Science that is available [... or not !]

then you get a different picture.

If you listen to Doctors and Scientists that actually try to figure out what's going on

instead of the "experts" that are the new Superstars then Covid-19 is nothing "special"

compared to any other sicknesses like Influenza in terms of mortality rate or number of cases.

 

If you look at the [criminal] record of the WHO then it gets outright scary.

Swineflu, Birdflu, Ebola - they have been wrong every single time and it is proven that

these events were manipulated by industry interests to sell vaccines and other financial interests.

 

If you look at Event201, Documentation from The Rockefeller foundation [pdf is attached], The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation,

the World Economic Forum then it becomes very obvious that there are many interests involved in this "event" !

 

The World Economic Forum calls it the "Global Reset" rather openly !

 

If you look at the interests behind the WHO, the UN and the "big players" it gets outright scary !

Interestingly enough most measures taken are AGAINST the results of the latest study of the WHO

for preventing the spread of a Pandemic ! [pdf is attached].

 

It is publicly known that all statistics are heavily "modified" ! World Wide !!!

The numbers from the RKI in Germany show crystal clear that there is no Pandemic !

The numbers were in decline even BEFORE the lock down started !!!

 

The PANDEMIC did not do much harm [compared to other sicknesses !!!}

GOVERNMENT ACTION did !!! ... and it is no way justifiable.

 

The MEDIA did a very good job in promoting a phony Pandemic and scare people to death !

All of this is nothing short of criminal action and crimes against humanity !

 

The economical and psychological effects of this criminal behavior, especially on children

will be a problem for years to come !

 

... if you really look into the available evidence of what is going on right now and where it will lead to,

you could very easily call it "pure evil" !!!

This is the biggest heist in human history !

 

Be aware of what is to come - this will not end well if people don't start to see the truth. 

 

Scenarios for the Future ofTechnology and International Development.pdfUnavailable WHO Study 2019-eng.pdfUnavailable

Oh it's the Bill Gates and Event201 conspircay theory BS again, the world has moved on from vaccines, have you not seen the protests and people taking to the streets/parks for parties/raves. The only thing coming is socialism to deal with the economic collapse and that is something that conspiracy theorists hate as they are far right.

[fredwiggy]

Just now, JackThompson said:

People at high-risk should self-isolate, is the lesson.  If Trump had cut off Europe at the same time as China, that would have been better - but still just delaying things, most likely. 

 

No - staying at home until a dangerous vaccine is fast-tracked and forced on people with almost no chance of even being slightly-sick from this virus is not an option.  People should be willing to do whatever it takes to fight that.

I worded that wrong. I didn't mean everyone staying home until the vaccine comes, just doing things smartly for now. If they closed down earlier, it would have been opened up by now without the consequences that are happening now. A vaccine is necessary, even though I've never gotten one, and never get the flu, because I think a lot would benefit from it. Some don't get sick, some don't show symptoms and some get very sick. This disease seems like it attacks certain people, some with preexisting conditions, some aren't suffering if they have type O blood. I have type O, and wonder if I may have had this back in January when I felt warm for over a week, had a cough and mild sore throat. Maybe Thailand dodged a bullet, getting a mild case early and it passed through. Maybe it never got hard hit here  because a lot got into mask wearing, Vitamin D from the sun, no hugs or handshakes,although I thought this was going to be a disaster area because so many are ignorant of the fact they eat and drink from the same glasses and sticky rice bowls, and that I thought would kill thousands of elderly. A vaccine cannot be forced on anyone. I think a lot, like me, wouldn't take it, and a lot would. Herd immunity can help, if it already hasn't. Thailand lost a lot of pneumonia patients this year, and who knows if any of them had Covid and weren't tested.

[tubby johnson]

45 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Ever hear of the word Karma?

Do covid-19 victims also die because of their karma?

 

Total nonsense. Karma is the consolation of the weak and ignorant; the universe is completely indifferent to us.

[from the home of CC]

anti lock down proponents - what's your solution for mass deaths?

[RichardColeman]

Just wait for the PPi type 'did Covid ruin your life or kill a loved one' claims about to explode when this is over. Unless governments out out immunity clauses pretty soon, the courts are going to be clogged for generations, care homes closed and e-mail accounts and phone accounts getting messages into the next century !

[tribalfusion001]

52 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

The whole Covid madness is a scam.....Has been from day one.....
Official covid numbers are a scam....Has been from day one...

Mask wearing is a scam...has been from day one....

Social distancing is a scam...has been from day one...

 

But about 95% of people are buying into the scam

so

I predict things will need to get much much worse to help wake people up....

Doing research on conspiracy theories via YouTube or Alex Jones or David Icke etc, is not research. You have bought into a "scam" that generates clicks from ad revenue and filling one's head with nonsense that has no proof!

[redwood1]

1 minute ago, tribalfusion001 said:

Oh it's the Bill Gates and Event201 conspircay theory BS again, the world has moved on from vaccines, have you not seen the protests and people taking to the streets/parks for parties/raves. The only thing coming is socialism to deal with the economic collapse and that is something that conspiracy theorists hate as they are far right.

Come on......For Some one who posts so many great posts I hope you dont write vaccines off so soon... 

 

Practically every covid article

ever written mentions vaccines.... Google Covid 19 google news thats over 1 billion articles...

 

They are not going to let this one go.....Maybe 2-3-4 waves are needed who knows?  They will put in motion how ever waves necessary to get everyone one the vaccine train...

They control all media except for maybe a bit on the internet....So when they say wave 2-3-4 is here 99% of people will be onboard you can take that to the bank....

 

I would not write vaccines off so soon.....   

[JackThompson]

17 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I worded that wrong. I didn't mean everyone staying home until the vaccine comes, just doing things smartly for now. If they closed down earlier, it would have been opened up by now without the consequences that are happening now. A vaccine is necessary, even though I've never gotten one, and never get the flu, because I think a lot would benefit from it. Some don't get sick, some don't show symptoms and some get very sick. This disease seems like it attacks certain people, some with preexisting conditions, some aren't suffering if they have type O blood. I have type O, and wonder if I may have had this back in January when I felt warm for over a week, had a cough and mild sore throat. Maybe Thailand dodged a bullet, getting a mild case early and it passed through. Maybe it never got hard hit here  because a lot got into mask wearing, Vitamin D from the sun, no hugs or handshakes,although I thought this was going to be a disaster area because so many are ignorant of the fact they eat and drink from the same glasses and sticky rice bowls, and that I thought would kill thousands of elderly. A vaccine cannot be forced on anyone. I think a lot, like me, wouldn't take it, and a lot would. Herd immunity can help, if it already hasn't. Thailand lost a lot of pneumonia patients this year, and who knows if any of them had Covid and weren't tested.

Yes - there is a lot we really don't know about what happened here and why - I grant you that - also suspect Jan/Feb pneumonia.  I am 100% ok with anyone who wants to take the vaccine doing so - though I hope there is solid info on its safety - and don't see how that is possible with fast-tracked.   And anyone who thinks its not safe for them should be able to stay home - and not starve to do so.  But I don't see how that is financially feasable for long if many chose to do so, though - certainly not in Thailand.

 

In my view, both one's chosen activity-level w/ others and what drugs they take should be up to the individual.  The only exception I see to that, is if/when hospitals are overwhelmed - and we never got close in Thailand. 

 

I've seen mixed numbers on hospitals in TX - but if an issue, then no more protests?  Those are much larger mass-gatherings - the greatest virus-spreader - than bars.  They are akin to concerts and large sporting-events.

Edited June 29, 2020 by JackThompson

[tribalfusion001]

1 minute ago, redwood1 said:

Come on......For Some one who posts so many great posts I hope you dont write vaccines off so soon... 

 

Practically every covid article

ever written mentions vaccines.... Google Covid 19 google news thats over 1 billion articles...

 

They are not going to let this one go.....Maybe 2-3-4 waves are needed who knows?  They will put in motion how ever waves necessary to get everyone one the vaccine train...

They control all media except for maybe a bit on the internet....So when they say wave 2-3-4 is here 99% of people will be onboard you can take that to the bank....

 

I would not write vaccines off so soon.....   

Your way off what is going on, nothing to do with vaccines. Conspiracy theories that originate from the far right.

[redwood1]

2 minutes ago, tribalfusion001 said:

Doing research on conspiracy theories via YouTube or Alex Jones or David Icke etc, is not research. You have bought into a "scam" that generates clicks from ad revenue and filling one's head with nonsense that has no proof!

Yes scam is a lazy word......But Is going to have to do because the whole Covid thing is pretty complex....But I think most people get the point...

[tribalfusion001]

4 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

I've seen mixed numbers on hospitals in TX - but if an issue, then no more protests?  Those are much larger mass-gatherings - the greatest virus-spreader - than bars.  They are akin to concerts and large sporting-events.

The mass gatherings won't stop, rather they will increase in size as the economic situation gets worse. Also with pubs/bars being closed or limited in capacity it will just encourage more people to meet in parks/streets and have a party or rave. This is what's happening in the UK.

[tribalfusion001]

3 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

Yes scam is a lazy word......But Is going to have to do because the whole Covid thing is pretty complex....But I think most people get the point...

It's the fear of virus that is paralyzing governments and some of the populations, that fear is causing the economic meltdown. Airbus will lose 40% of it's planned production and UK mortgages have slumped to 90% less than February this year.

[Dap]

16 hours ago, chessman said:

Then why stack your post with leading questions and ask them in such a disingenuous way?
 

you keep trotting out the same stuff, like an angry red-faced man shouting at the world because nobody is listening and he’s not getting his way. The issue is both a health crisis and an economic one. You have to balance the two things. Constantly downplaying the virus means that only people on the very fringe will be listening to you. 

Well said.

[Airalee]

1 hour ago, fredwiggy said:

Just to let you know, young are dying from Covid..................https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/08/young-people-coronavirus-deaths/

Out of 128,000 deaths, only 759 were under the age of 50 (per the article) Looking at the FB page of the guy from the article, he certainly doesn’t look very healthy.  I’d like to see the BMI and photographs of all 759 people.

 

edit:  looks like it is more than 759 and approximately 10% of deaths are under the age of 55.  However, to me, under 50 does not classify one as young.  Under 30 is young. And considering that most people are overweight and have numerous other health issues (diagnosed OR undiagnosed)...well...it’s time for people who have lived unhealthy lifestyles to get with the program and get in shape. 
 

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#AgeAndSex

Edited June 29, 2020 by Airalee

[Mikeheart]

14 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

You have a political agenda that also includes your anti vaccination position. As such, you  have no interest in discussion of the Covid19  crisis. This is just another opportunity for you to push your political and social views. Yours is a US centric position.  

 

This disease is not about the death rate, and never has been. It is about the cost of the infection itself.  Covid 19 fills hospital beds and ICUs and it leaves large numbers of patients with long term damage. Because it is a highly infectious and complex illness, it requires hospitals to follow specific protocols and to divert resources and personnel that in turn  necessitates the suspension of activities that put vulnerable patients at risk. Because of its ability to cause physical harm, if left unchecked it will disrupt the economy and cause  shutdowns that would last far longer and be more extensive than the limited actions that were enacted to slow the spread of the disease. 

 

No one who  has understood and agreed with the limited measures taken in respect to the social distancing required, discounts the impact that such measures will have on society. The problems you are referring to are in large part specific to the USA economy. Other developed countries have taken exceptional measures to care for their general population and we do not see such problems in Australia, Canada, Denmark, Portugal, France etc.  

 

Yes, there are unemployed people, but there are now also new job opportunities. Yes some businesses  have  gone bankrupt. Many of them were already in serious trouble and it was only a question of time for some of them.  People were not shopping at malls or big box stores long before Covid19. The economy is changing and we will adapt.   

 

However, I do note that  Trump has been emphasizing that there will be a rash of suicides due to the economic situation. This is his new talking point which you have  obviously lapped up and now regurgitate for us here.  Please share with us the data in respect to this explosion of death. 

Fantastic explanation of the true problem. Thank you

[tubby johnson]

7 hours ago, steelepulse said:

What's your solution?  Are you going to hand over all your money to help people that are out of work and now homeless?

 

Stack the post?  There's no stacking the post, just pointing out the actual facts of ifr and how if you are healthy with a good immune system this doesn't affect a normal person.

 

What's your solution?

LOL ... Have you handed over any money? 

 

What's your solution?  (apart from fake cures & bogus science)

[spidermike007]

2 hours ago, Berkshire said:

Your logic is rather misleading.  The only people who can order a lockdown are--surprise--government officials.  Truth is, nobody wants a lockdown.  But the government has a mandate to protect its citizens, number one being health and safety.  If they do nothing and a pandemic overwhelms the hospitals, who will you blame? 

 

As for expats with a fat pension, I may resemble that description and I sure as heck didn't want a lockdown.  No one wants a lockdown.  But frankly, I'm glad the Thai government took control and minimized the damage.  Thailand has done a heck of a better job than my home country, the USA. 

Mine too, as a fellow American. The extent to which they botched the response is an abomination. The things that could have been done to prevent the spread are multitudinous. A tremendous blight on the little bit of a legacy the US had remaining.

 

I do give the Thais alot of credit for the way they handled this.  

[scorecard]

Perhaps the first point is to be angry with trump for such a slow reaction to do anything and also be angry that the US president talks silly and unprofessional about 'just a hoax' etc., and plays silly games with his ridiculous comments about masks and because for his latest big event his own staff removed the 'don't sit here' stickers. And for playing silly games about PPE, equipment etc.

 

Sure it's very sad that so many people have lost their jobs and struggle to feed their families etc. So that brings the question 'who should be taking care of these folks', and IMHO the answer is 'the government', quickly arranging (as the Australian national and state government did) very focused and structured help and support. Plus the wealthy giving a hand.

[yuyiinthesky]

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

To spite the bad food, their primary "crime" - in terms of getting sick from covid - is "living to be too old."  This was especially true in Italy.  It's great we have ways to keep people alive into very old age, but that doesn't mean we do not become weaker - thus can be taken-out by a weak virus like this one (which does not affect the young and healthy).

There seems to be a significant difference in the age group dying from (or with) Covid-19 in the US and in the rest of the world. The „65 and older“ pattern is true for the rest of the world, not for the US, where it seems to be 4x or older. 
 

The most likely explanation for me seems to be the junk food and the obesity, hence my comment about it. Unless of course the death stats are fake ...

Edited June 29, 2020 by yuyiinthesky

[GinBoy2]

It's an interesting question.

 

I was listening to a discussion regarding the pandemic in Latin America, and this probably rings true in Thailand.

 

When talking about Brazil, 70% of the workforce is in the 'informal' economy, so it's day laborers, not in any tax situation_, not dissimilar to Thailand.

 

So those folks are in a dilemma. They aren't eligible for any State benefits, so self isolation, work at home just isn't an option.

 

You need to work to eat.

 

What the answer to that is, is a much bigger question, which after this nightmare is over will have to be addressed

[yuyiinthesky]

32 minutes ago, tubby johnson said:

LOL ... Have you handed over any money? 

 

What's your solution?  (apart from fake cures & bogus science)

For my part, yes, I kind of adopted 2 jobless families, and make sure they don‘t loose their rooms, and have enough food.

[AlexRich]

They’re in favour of the Marie Antoinette solution ... “let them eat cake”!

 

 

 

[Laza 45]

Anti-lockdown advocates.. what is your solution to a situation where the virus is not controlled with no end in sight and a destroyed economy.. with no hope of a return to 'normal'.. a tourist industry that is impossible to revive because visitors have no confidence that they are safe here?