House building questions

[craighj]

Hello all

 

I'm likely going to build a house on a piece of land we have in Mukdahan and I would like your opinion on a couple of things please.

 

What is the best / best value roofing material, the actual roof structure will be metal but I'm tossing up a few different alternatives for the roofing?

 

Buy things for the construction and also the fit out of the house, are the big brand building supply / hardware's the best value?  For things like tiles, toilets, piping, steel, doors, windows etc, etc, etc Places like Thaiwatsadu, Global house etc or more local types you see around?

 

Craighj

[bankruatsteve]

Check out the local places for construction supplies.  Delivery is usually free and prices can be much better than the "Home" places.  Do check the quality though.

 

Plumbing fixtures are another situation.  If you get from Boonthavorn you will get good quality.  Unless they've got better lately, the "Home" places carry mostly <deleted>.  This is for faucets, valves, shower and related fixtures.  Global is my favorite for most of the other stuff.

[Surelynot]

Do seriously know what you are doing? If not....don't do it....rent.

[sometimewoodworker]

45 minutes ago, craighj said:

I'm likely going to build a house on a piece of land we have in Mukdahan and I would like your opinion on a couple of things please.

There is a different place where you will find the answers to most, apart from electrical questions, that is dedicated to building cool Thai houses. Most of your questions have already got answers there.
 

For electrical work this is the better place for quick knowledgeable information.

 

TIT. YMMV. ???? 

[craighj]

Thanks bankruatsteve and sometimewordworker.  Yes I guess it's a mixed all of these guys, local and the big boys.  The big boys have some decent specials at times so keeping an eye out for those is also a factor.

 

Craighj

[craighj]

40 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Do seriously know what you are doing? If not....don't do it....rent.

 I do like Thai Visa, but then again there are wallies like you who clearly comment for no reason at all that should stick to being annoying.  

 

The good thing about Thai Visa is asking questions and sharing knowledge when and if you can, that for me is what Thai Visa is all about.

 

What it's not about, well................................ 

 

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, craighj said:

What is the best / best value roofing material

From my own experience I would recommend cement roof tiles, but more importantly you want to make sure you have a good clearance in your roof to allow the hot air to move along, e.g. I can stand in my attic space.

 

The above said, good sisalation under your tiles is very important to delay the heat from the tiles coming into your attic space, thermal reflective sisalation works well, you will then need ceiling batts to prevent the heat from traveling through your plasterboard ceilings and into your home, Stay Cool R38 is what we have, noting that heat also rises, but ceiling batts also help in stopping that cool air from your air conditioner from escaping into the ceiling, i.e. staying in your room to keep you cool while your air conditioner is not working overtime, we turn ours off after 30 minutes and let the fans take over and the room stays cool for hours after.

 

You should also put in some whirlybirds to suck the hot air out, vents at the front, rear and sides of your roof, depending on what roof your going to have, we have a gable roof so front and back vents allow the air to move along like wind in a tunnel with the whirlybirds continuously spinning, and then you want wide vented eaves to allow the air to move freely, having wide eaves also helps keep the sun off of your windows, because heat travels through glass panes, tinting is even worse in my opinion as it heats up the glass as the heat cannot get through.

 

You should also consider what bricks you are going to use and if you can afford it, create a cavity between the walls, i.e. build two walls, one outer and one inner with the cavity in between, we didn't do this as we have a huge house and it was cheaper to put up additional iron roofs, one covers 3 walls so the sun doesn't touch the brickwork, another wall was built on the outside of our houses main wall and an external kitchen with iron roof was covering it so the sun doesn't touch the main wall, albeit it gets hot in that kitchen, but the main house is cool, you can also buy shade cloths from DoHome that can be placed on an angle shading your brick walls, taking 90% off the heats rays off of your walls, very effective and about 500 baht for a 3 x 2 metre bronze cloth, we have 3 over one wall and it has cooled it down like no tomorrow.

 

Follow the above and you should have a cool house, but you have to have endless resources as you will be living in a challenging environment....lol

 

Edit: Try not to put concrete around your house as it heats up pretty quick and you will end up feeling it, pebbles or blue rock is a better alternative, and put in plenty of trees where the sun mostly shines on the house.

 

Last ad not least, only invest about as much as you're prepared to walk away from if your relationship goes south, in saying that, I have been her 5 years invested 3 million and am mostly a happy chappy, depending on what side of the bed I woke up on and what's happening in Thailand, smoke season and all ????

 

Also high ceilings help, 3 metres !!!

Edited June 30, 2020 by 4MyEgo

[sometimewoodworker]

37 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Also high ceilings help, 3 metres

High??? That’s moderate, ours AFIR is about 7 at the peak and 3.5 in the lower section.

 

I disagree on the use of a storage heater for roofing material. Good quality metal roofing is cheaper, better and doesn’t store anything like the amount a tile roof will.

[bodga]

if you want to rely on aircon dont use tall ceilings

[bankruatsteve]

Yah^^  Whatever roofing is used, the attic temperature will be served best with properly installed radiant heat heat barrier under the roofing.  Properly installed means air space between the barrier and the tiles.  Also, strongly recommend going with AAC block for the external walls (using double 7.5cm blocks with internal gap to match the support column width.)  You can't do enough research prior to building for a happy result.

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

High??? That’s moderate, ours AFIR is about 7 at the peak and 3.5 in the lower section.

 

I disagree on the use of a storage heater for roofing material. Good quality metal roofing is cheaper, better and doesn’t store anything like the amount a tile roof will.

3 to 3.3 metre ceiling heights work well for the design of the house we have for a single level, if you have 7 metres at the peak, you must have an exceptional build, we have 5 metres in the mid section of our attic to allow all that trapped air to make its way out with the vents, whirlybirds and vented eaves, like I aid, creates a wind tunnel effect, just by sticking my head up there in the manhole, I can feel it moving, works well for us, there is no storage heater for the roof material, and I would imagine that with a metal roof you can hear the rain ?

Edited June 30, 2020 by 4MyEgo

[sometimewoodworker]

52 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

3 to 3.3 metre ceiling heights work well for the design of the house we have for a single level, if you have 7 metres at the peak, you must have an exceptional build, we have 5 metres in the mid section of our attic to allow all that trapped air to make its way out with the vents, whirlybirds and vented eaves, like I aid, creates a wind tunnel effect, just by sticking my head up there in the manhole, I can feel it moving, works well for us, there is no storage heater for the roof material, and I would imagine that with a metal roof you can hear the rain ?

Our design is certainly unique as you can see if you visit my profile page.
 

In my workshop I certainly hear the rain, in the living area it’s audible, in the bedroom only just audible when we get heavy rain.

 

Concrete/ceramic is the material used in storage heaters, so if you have concrete/ceramic tiles for roofing  Q.E.D. you have a storage heater on your roof, as you yourself say

3 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

The above said, good sisalation under your tiles is very important to delay the heat from the tiles coming into your attic space

Edited June 30, 2020 by sometimewoodworker

[Artisi]

4 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

There is a different place where you will find the answers to most, apart from electrical questions, that is dedicated to building cool Thai houses. Most of your questions have already got answers there.
 

For electrical work this is the better place for quick knowledgeable information.

 

TIT. YMMV. ???? 

coolthaihouse. com has hours of reading on local builds by expats - just about everything you need to know - plus some, there is nonsense stuff there - but that normal for these types of forum. 

[craighj]

Thanks all, good advice all round.

 

By the way the ceilings will be either 3.5 or 4 metres,  need high ceilings here no doubt.

 

Craighj

[sometimewoodworker]

16 minutes ago, Artisi said:

coolthaihouse. com has hours of reading on local builds by expats - just about everything you need to know - plus some, there is nonsense stuff there - but that normal for these types of forum. 

The signal to noise ratio there is, in general, far far better.
 

The only area that is a little less good is electrical.

[carlyai]

4 hours ago, craighj said:

Thanks bankruatsteve and sometimewordworker.  Yes I guess it's a mixed all of these guys, local and the big boys.  The big boys have some decent specials at times so keeping an eye out for those is also a factor.

 

Craighj

Mukdahan Shutters is a great place for everything. Small shop front but goes right down the back and across the lane.

The electrician I used for my house named Nat lives in Mukdahan. He also fixed up Mukdahan Mansion (Google it) after they stuffed it up. I had 3 phase installation and he's the only one who knew anything about it. A little rough (like them all) but if you tell him you want it done to this standard he will. No borrowed neutrals, all earthed. But you have to tell him or he will do it the Thai way. PM me and I'll send you his phone number. 

There's a great electrical shop, just fully moved to it's new location. If you are travelling towards the friendship bridge from Muk take the right turn at the last lights to the Indo China market and it is down the street on the RHS. Mukdahan Shutters is further down on the left.

????

[northsouthdevide]

Bestadvice I could give is find a good builder and check his previous work. 

Be on site as much as you can and take your time when making decisions. 

Consider everything that comes into your head, and if you want something done in a certain way, don't compromise, even if the Thais think you're stupid. 

[crazykopite]

I don’t know your area but when I built my property I avoided using wood as termite love the stuff . With regards to your roof I used steel rather than wood with lengths of good quality metal sheets that came with built in insulation and finished off in white to reflect the heat . I used white Q block rather than the cheap grey block, the QBlock has many advantages when it comes to insulation and soundproofing . The majority of my supplies were shipped from Bangkok some 800 km from where I live as the cost was less than what it would cost me locally as I live on one of the islands and most of my electrical supplies LV lights , switches , sockets , Dimmers , Swimming pool lights came from mainland China and yes it was worth it as I made substantial savings on the cost . I would also suggest you use air conditioning units of the inverter type the initial outlay casts a little more but the energy savings are incredible I have Daikin AC that are linked up to insulated water tanks that give me an abundance of hot water for all my needs . Hope this helps 

[thailand49]

Thai Watsadu is a good place to shop much better than Home Pro I don't know of Global.  Not sure of your budget but when it comes to roofs you say " steel "  although steel framing the framing strength is determine by the type of material being used the heavier the thicker the steel members this would be the case if using cement.  One thing about roof here due to the heat it will expand and retract the naked eye won't be able to see it but in time you will when it starts to leak. Recently I've been looking at some new roof material use by a neighbor down the roof, it looks like cement but it is shiny and in 2 years it still is shiny?  regardless if money isn't an issue I would have a company come in and spray insulation under the steel structure they will also keep out water if you don't forget buying any double pane windows.

 

When it comes to fixture not the more expensive the better I've pretty thought that but after a few years like plumbing fixture they break down or they tarnish it seem like there are two sets of standards one for America and another for everyone else no one is checking here in Thailand. Example I once purchased a 10,000 fixture after a year it tarnished and the so call washer less fixture started to leak you can't even get a part here in Thailand they want you to buy a whole new fixture go to any store including Thai Watsatu you won't find one or part replacement. Whenever I'm home I go to Home Depot and get fixtures and parts.

 

Spend a bit extra on a good toilet the finish is better don't buy one of those with buttons on top replacement parts are tough, make sure your house electric is grounded make sure you know where the water lines are lay and where it comes into the house because planting a tree in the wrong place or size will cost you money in the long run. Make sure the contractor has enough plumbing glue!  it is the small stuff from my experience that will cost you down the road. Today after 10 years I do nearly 90% of the work myself and much of it was fixing what wasn't done right the first time?

 

Good luck enjoy homeowner in Thailand it could be a joy or nightmare certainly a challenge at times?

 

 

[Darksidedude]

Personally i would never do this unless you are very clued up in house building and you personally know good builders and have a LOT of patience, regarding materials try to source this and purchase this yourself as my experience the builders will get the cheapest <deleted> thats on the market.

 

i didn't get a house built i purchased a bare bones house like i had to get it fitted out that was a nightmare in itself, i got a patio done and guttering around the roof the metal they used on the guttering lasted 12 months started to rust away i couldn't believe it, that guttering should last a lifetime and to get the builders back to replace it no chance this isn't the UK Australia whatever no comeback for faulty workmanship or materials

[canopy]

Lately I see a lot of people using aluminum roofs that are single strips going all the way from the peak to the eave and slot together side by side. Cheap, long lasting, rapid install, and leak proof which is all most people care about. But in the areas of heat transfer, noise, and appearance some may prefer other options.

 

[sandyf]

19 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

From my own experience I would recommend cement roof tiles, but more importantly you want to make sure you have a good clearance in your roof to allow the hot air to move along, e.g. I can stand in my attic space.

 

The above said, good sisalation under your tiles is very important to delay the heat from the tiles coming into your attic space, thermal reflective sisalation works well, you will then need ceiling batts to prevent the heat from traveling through your plasterboard ceilings and into your home, Stay Cool R38 is what we have, noting that heat also rises, but ceiling batts also help in stopping that cool air from your air conditioner from escaping into the ceiling, i.e. staying in your room to keep you cool while your air conditioner is not working overtime, we turn ours off after 30 minutes and let the fans take over and the room stays cool for hours after.

 

You should also put in some whirlybirds to suck the hot air out, vents at the front, rear and sides of your roof, depending on what roof your going to have, we have a gable roof so front and back vents allow the air to move along like wind in a tunnel with the whirlybirds continuously spinning, and then you want wide vented eaves to allow the air to move freely, having wide eaves also helps keep the sun off of your windows, because heat travels through glass panes, tinting is even worse in my opinion as it heats up the glass as the heat cannot get through.

 

You should also consider what bricks you are going to use and if you can afford it, create a cavity between the walls, i.e. build two walls, one outer and one inner with the cavity in between, we didn't do this as we have a huge house and it was cheaper to put up additional iron roofs, one covers 3 walls so the sun doesn't touch the brickwork, another wall was built on the outside of our houses main wall and an external kitchen with iron roof was covering it so the sun doesn't touch the main wall, albeit it gets hot in that kitchen, but the main house is cool, you can also buy shade cloths from DoHome that can be placed on an angle shading your brick walls, taking 90% off the heats rays off of your walls, very effective and about 500 baht for a 3 x 2 metre bronze cloth, we have 3 over one wall and it has cooled it down like no tomorrow.

 

Follow the above and you should have a cool house, but you have to have endless resources as you will be living in a challenging environment....lol

 

Edit: Try not to put concrete around your house as it heats up pretty quick and you will end up feeling it, pebbles or blue rock is a better alternative, and put in plenty of trees where the sun mostly shines on the house.

 

Last ad not least, only invest about as much as you're prepared to walk away from if your relationship goes south, in saying that, I have been her 5 years invested 3 million and am mostly a happy chappy, depending on what side of the bed I woke up on and what's happening in Thailand, smoke season and all ????

 

Also high ceilings help, 3 metres !!!

Good post. I had cavity wall construction with relatively small windows and it works quite well. As said the ceiling is a big problem, I have a suspended ceiling at about 2.8m which is about 400mm below the top of the walls, insulation under the tiles and a vent in each end.

I had an all inclusive price but specified the materials to be used and the builder bought them. I had to go with the builder a few times to select an alternative when he couldn't source the original material.

I was fortunate to live on site and picked up a few times where they had not read the plans correctly. I built the kitchen myself and taking that into account plus other additions and maintenance over the years the house has probably cost me around 1.4 million. It is a 100 sq m bungalow with 2 ensuite bedrooms and i have been in it now for over 10 years, there is no way renting would have been a better option.

[superal]

55 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Good post. I had cavity wall construction with relatively small windows and it works quite well. As said the ceiling is a big problem, I have a suspended ceiling at about 2.8m which is about 400mm below the top of the walls, insulation under the tiles and a vent in each end.

I had an all inclusive price but specified the materials to be used and the builder bought them. I had to go with the builder a few times to select an alternative when he couldn't source the original material.

I was fortunate to live on site and picked up a few times where they had not read the plans correctly. I built the kitchen myself and taking that into account plus other additions and maintenance over the years the house has probably cost me around 1.4 million. It is a 100 sq m bungalow with 2 ensuite bedrooms and i have been in it now for over 10 years, there is no way renting would have been a better option.

Brickwork looks good , are they UK size brick because I have only seen the small Thai bricks here . Did a Thai do the brickwork ?  Also in pic one is that a concrete post sat in the cavity ?

[4MyEgo]

17 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Our design is certainly unique as you can see if you visit my profile page.
 

In my workshop I certainly hear the rain, in the living area it’s audible, in the bedroom only just audible when we get heavy rain.

 

Concrete/ceramic is the material used in storage heaters, so if you have concrete/ceramic tiles for roofing  Q.E.D. you have a storage heater on your roof, as you yourself say

Respectfully, I believe you should read my posts again as I didn't say I used Concrete/ceramic tiles, your confused, easy to refer to either of my posts, @ #7 and #11, I said cement tiles.

 

Thermal Emittance – this is the ability to disperse or give off heat rather than retain it, and that is exactly what cement roof tiles do better than other roofing material on the market today. In fact, it is proven up to 86% thermal emittance when compared to asphalt shingles.

[Stevemercer]

It maybe best to go for a simple roof design rather than the often complicated Thai design. In particular, you want to avoid troughs/gutters in the roof line which will leak. A flat roof (with adequate slope) is preferable.

[Presnock]

I notice a lot of house builders use wallboard for soffit, some with vents for air flow but wallboard in Thai weather soaks up water and moisture and is a poor soffit material in my opinion.  Our muban in the 1st phase used wallboard for all the houses - I walk every day for exercise and note during the rainy season that 95 % of the soffit has water spots (turn black eventually) and need repainting every season.  Yeah the muban does that the first or second year free then you have to pay for it.  Also constantly getting wet means it is rotting!  2nd phase houses all have vinyl soffit - designed in my opinion for this type of climate which allows the free flow of air into/out of the attic area.  Many of the other suggestions appear really great too even though most Thai houses don't spend that much as they move, while the value of the house as in many countries grows while here 2nd hand house value do not grow so some expenditures depending on if you plan to stay forever in that house would be worth adding!

 

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

I had an all inclusive price but specified the materials to be used and the builder bought them. I had to go with the builder a few times to select an alternative when he couldn't source the original material.

I was fortunate to live on site and picked up a few times where they had not read the plans correctly.

It's a given, you have to be on-site, as I recall stopping the builder a couple of times telling him, how I wanted it, he would turn to the wife and say, but, and my wife would turn to me and say, the builder said but, and I would say, yes, I understand his point, but this is the way I want it done, remember I am paying for it, (Australian Standards/Specifications, not Thai Standards/Specifications), know enough about building houses as I used to sign off at building stages for the banks to release funds to builders as each stage was complete to standards/specifications, and if it wasn't, I would tell the builder in a nice way that there was going to be a delay because the work wasn't correct or completed, and had to be corrected or completed. 

 

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

I built the kitchen myself and taking that into account plus other additions and maintenance over the years the house has probably cost me around 1.4 million. It is a 100 sq m bungalow with 2 ensuite bedrooms and i have been in it now for over 10 years, there is no way renting would have been a better option.

Around the same time as you built, we built a 64m2 bungalow with a 21m2 verandah back in 2009 with those besa type (cheap bricks) then rendered over, cost us about 500,000 baht back then, we then incorporated it with the house that was built in 2014/2015, completed in 2016. The house is 240m2 plus the bungalow, so all up we have 304m2 of internal area, yes a big house, 6 bedrooms, 3 bathrooms and a carport, it cost me 1.5 mil to lock up stage, later adding some additions, like an external 2nd kitchen, 80m2 covered outdoor area, and insulating the attic space, and putting in 6 air conditioners.

 

Getting the bungalow built, took 3 builders, the 3rd builder later built our place, gotta say, some of these guys have no idea, but the builder who built our place, is always welcome to do more work for us as his work has always been good, albeit it of late it depends on how much of the local water he has drunk the night before ????

 

The above said, the Mrs is a great baragainer and would press the local hardware for good discounts, so we saved a few quid when building.

 

Edited July 1, 2020 by 4MyEgo

[craighj]

Thanks all, some advice and good discussion.

 

I’ve lived and worked in Thailand for around 14 years, built a house in Mukdahan some years ago using a realisable builder.

 

This house I’m building for my son and his family.

 

Anyway I do appreciate the ideas and advice!!!

[khunPer]

23 hours ago, craighj said:

What is the best / best value roofing material, the actual roof structure will be metal but I'm tossing up a few different alternatives for the roofing?

For roof you should check with SCG's Roof Experts, normally available in a local Home Mark store. They can make the steel construction in galvanized steel – which is both lighter in weight and last longer than normal steel – and they have a variety of different roof titles to put of top, and installation includes rain water shielding and heat insulation, all made by experts, and giving you a written warranty. I got five years – the following years a representative came every year and asked if we had experienced any problems with the roof – my roof is still perfect after 10+ years up there; many of my neighbors with buildings of about same age has already changed roof tiles due to leaks, but they used their various building constructors.

 

When I was planning my house construction SCG's quote was actually cheaper than my building constructor's quote for the exactly same SCG roof tile; and SCG also made free of charge computer drawings, and detailed quotes for for various roof tiles to chose from. Even some tiles are cheaper, when all added up, the total price difference in percent is not that much between the cheaper roof tile, and the better product. Furthermore, I wouldn't know if the building constructor would still be in business next year – or I could find him at all – if the roof started to leak; SCG would most likely still be around.

 

Quote

Buy things for the construction and also the fit out of the house, are the big brand building supply / hardware's the best value?  For things like tiles, toilets, piping, steel, doors, windows etc, etc, etc Places like Thaiwatsadu, Global house etc or more local types you see around?

I used Home Mart – and a special Home Decor-division shop for tiles, and toilets, and basins – and also HomePro as supplier for decoration, paint, and finishing stuff, including a complete installed European-style kitchen. My building constructor also used Home Mart, i.e. SCG, for materials and mixed concrete.

 

Both Home Mart, and especially HomePro, were ready to negotiate discounts. Sometimes a supplier would be called to negotiate discounts. I had learned my Thai girlfriend to bargain, and she became very good doing it, speaking the language helps, and she always asked for "someone important" to talk to; yes, she had been watching "Keeping up the appearances"...????

 

We were for example going to buy seven aircons and she wanted a discount. After talk with the supplier HomePro said we could get four big remote controlled floor-fans for free. Not good enough, she wanted cash discount, we had no use for any fans – we had already ordered ceiling fans for all rooms – so the "someone important", the HomePro store manager, called the aircon supplier again and had a long talk, saying something to my girlfriend, talking again to the supplier and so on; and finally the supplier accepted an for us quite nice cash discount – plus four free standing remote controlled fans! Some of our friends were happy for a free big remote controlled floor-fan...????

 

I've been very satisfied with both supplies and prices from both chains, SCG and Home Mart was better for some items, whilst HomePro was better for others. Shopping around, checking prices and products – sometimes even not similar, but exactly same brand and item – can be worth the effort. And there might well be other suppliers to check than the two I've mentioned...????

[jojothai]

2 hours ago, superal said:

Brickwork looks good , are they UK size brick because I have only seen the small Thai bricks here . Did a Thai do the brickwork ?  Also in pic one is that a concrete post sat in the cavity ?

You can get the bricks like that now. I see them in some builders merchants. Ten years ago you could not when I was building my own house.

You can see the post in the cavity, its also got the reinforcing bars cast in that tie into the brickwork. That's important.

 

Cavity on the outer walls helps to reduce the heat and very significant in my opinion. I also put a cavity on one of the inner walls of bathrooms for getting most of the water pipework fitted without having to chase out the walls.  

Remember to seal all holes to cavities. Rats will get in there if they can. Put rat poison in before closing off. They chew any cables, so just in case always use proper pipe conduits in cavities for wiring / cables and don't leave any open sections of cable.

 

For roof steelwork (C Channels) get the correct grade according to design.

The markings on the channels here state a code size that does not reflect it is the correct thickness.

The thais have normally have three thicknesses for the code size. Full size, medium and normal. If i recall correctly Normal is about half the design thickness, so only a third to a quarter of the strength. That's why you see bowed roofs.

I had to reject what I was given initially and specially order full size. They do not cheat you on price, You pay by the steel weight. Check the weight is correct for the code size of the design.

Check that reinforcing is full size. Stockists have seconds that are cheaper and are thinner than code. Thais will buy the cheapest.