Thailand is red-lighted in UK for quarantine purposes alongside Brazil, China and US, inexplicable move

[CorpusChristie]

3 minutes ago, robblok said:

I think this topic and all the flack i got proves it. 

Just an observation , but you do seem to regularly stick the boot into the UK and comprehensively criticise ALL Brits and if anyone replies trying to explain things to you , you accuse us all of nat being able to take criticism .

   Like, you can criticise the UK , but we shouldnt reply to that criticism or give reason  .

Many of us Brits think that UK has handled this virus very badly  

[robblok]

1 minute ago, CorpusChristie said:

Just an observation , but you do seem to regularly stick the boot into the UK and comprehensively criticise ALL Brits and if anyone replies trying to explain things to you , you accuse us all of nat being able to take criticism .

   Like, you can criticise the UK , but we shouldnt reply to that criticism or give reason  .

Many of us Brits think that UK has handled this virus very badly  

Strangely I don't see many posts of that nature here. But my apologies to those who do think the UK did it wrongly. I just feel as a general rule that the Brits on here have a hard time accepting critisism.

 

But I will accept what you said and stop blanket statements. 

[Snow Leopard]

15 hours ago, smedly said:

based on what ? your own funky maths lol

 

Based on sound scientific data from countries that actually bother to measure it should be about 15-20% with a mortality rate around 1% - can you do that maths

Where do you get the 1% mortality rate from? It might be that number in the end given the number of unknown asymptomatic cases but its not the actual known rate right now. Funky numbers indeed.  

 

Yesterday 11,739,167 known worldwide cases. 540,666 Deaths attributed to CV-19. That's roughly a 4.6% mortality rate currently and if you run the number on the amount of recovered cases vs deaths its around an 8% mortality rate.  

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, Snow Leopard said:

Where do you get the 1% mortality rate from? It might be that number in the end given the number of unknown asymptomatic cases but its not the actual known rate right now. Funky numbers indeed.  

 

Yesterday 11,739,167 known worldwide cases. 540,666 Deaths attributed to CV-19. That's roughly a 4.6% mortality rate currently and if you run the number on the amount of recovered cases vs deaths its around an 8% mortality rate.  

 

 

If you're getting your mortality percentage figures from sites like worldometers then you're looking at the wrong place for accurate mortality rates. Its generally accepted that current models and studies give a death rate of 1% or less, although thats still high enough.

[sandyf]

25 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I was responding to a post that claimed among other things that the UK had stopped publishing its testing figures, that is clearly not the case https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/ and https://coronavirus-staging.data.gov.uk/

Your words or not?

 

"Here's your claim:

 

"And the UK has lied consistently on testing, got caught doing it over and over again and then stopped releasing test data. They only talk about testing capacity, big deal, they can say have 20 million a day capacity, but if they’re only testing 50k it’s pointless"

 

With no facts to back it up, as I said nonsense on all points and complete lies:"

 

[sandyf]

Now we know why Thailand red-lighted.

 

Waitrose, Co-op and Ocado vowed not to sell products that used monkeylabour, while Morrisons has already removed Thai products amid an appeal by Prime Minister Boris Johnson's fiancée Carrie Symonds.

 

Symonds on Friday backed a call to supermarkets to stop selling Thai coconut products over accusations of monkey "slaves" by the rights group People for Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) published in the Telegraph newspaper.

 

[Kennycrossfit]

15 hours ago, robblok said:

Not really, if i bashed the Brits the way the Brits on here bash the Thais id be banned already. Just showing you guys you don't have your own house on order why bash othso ers.

So it's just Brits that bash the Thais? 

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Your words or not?

 

"Here's your claim:

 

"And the UK has lied consistently on testing, got caught doing it over and over again and then stopped releasing test data. They only talk about testing capacity, big deal, they can say have 20 million a day capacity, but if they’re only testing 50k it’s pointless"

 

With no facts to back it up, as I said nonsense on all points and complete lies:"

 

My claim of no facts to back it up a nonsense statement still hold but if you'd like it in black and white. The UK has not consistently lied on testing, it has not been got caught over and over again, it has not stopped releasing test data and they test far more than 50k per day.

 

Did they meet their targets, no but thats another matter.

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, Kennycrossfit said:

So it's just Brits that bash the Thais? 

Nope its not mate, that is why i take a pot shot at any nationality including my own when they are in the news. See it as a reality check all the negativity about Thais should be balanced out a bit. Seems most white foreigners think their own <deleted> does not stink and dish it out to Thais but have little capacity to take it. 

 

Its just now that the Brits are a target because of the news allowing it. So much negativity about how Thailand handeled the flu while in Europe and US it has been handled far worse. When I am on the phone with Dutch clients or my parents im constantly amazed how lax they are where I am from. 

[sandyf]

14 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

My claim of no facts to back it up a nonsense statement still hold but if you'd like it in black and white. The UK has not consistently lied on testing, it has not been got caught over and over again, it has not stopped releasing test data and they test far more than 50k per day.

 

Did they meet their targets, no but thats another matter.

More tangents than a fruit stall.

[Rimmer]

A troll post/general flame and a reply have been removed

[CorpusChristie]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

 

 

Brits are lousy at taking criticism it seems. You are one of them instead of admitting it you are saying I have a problem with Brits. 

 

Not sure why i would have a problem with Brits just because I point out their failings and show how they bash Thais but don't have their own house in order.

 

 

I have just re read the first ten pages of this thread and not one Brit has defended the UK Govs handling of the Corona virus , although there have been numerous critical posts .

  Yes, there are a small contingent of Thai bashing posters on here  , but are they all Brits ?

But anyway, its not all and every Brit doing the Thai bashing , so theres no need for yourself to declare war on Brits because we are not all Brit defending Thai bashers

[robblok]

7 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

I have just re read the first ten pages of this thread and not one Brit has defended the UK Govs handling of the Corona virus , although there have been numerous critical posts .

  Yes, there are a small contingent of Thai bashing posters on here  , but are they all Brits ?

But anyway, its not all and every Brit doing the Thai bashing , so theres no need for yourself to declare war on Brits because we are not all Brit defending Thai bashers

Mate I did not declare war on Brits, i have nothing against Brits per se. Some are quite nice others are total idiots. Kinda like people in my country. 

 

But on this site there are quite a lot of Thaibashers so negative news about a country of their origin is a good chance to put the shoe on the other foot. I actually made some comments about the USA too. Strangely they respond far less fierce. 

 

I made remarks about my own country too. I have nothing against the average expat. Just highlighting failures in their countries to to balance all the Thaibashing.

 

And yes there are quite a few good people around. baboon richard bigstar crossy  and many others. I really don't care where someone is from. I select my friends based on what I like and do. So anyone into fishing or doing some exerise has a big plus. Bar types will in general not become my friends (don't dislike them just dont have the same interests).

 

You should read how the foreigners on here comment on the contact tracing app, on social distancing on the bars not being able to do as they want. So a topic like this shows what will happen without strict rules. 

Edited July 7, 2020 by robblok

[JCP108]

1 hour ago, Snow Leopard said:

Where do you get the 1% mortality rate from? It might be that number in the end given the number of unknown asymptomatic cases but its not the actual known rate right now. Funky numbers indeed.  

 

Yesterday 11,739,167 known worldwide cases. 540,666 Deaths attributed to CV-19. That's roughly a 4.6% mortality rate currently and if you run the number on the amount of recovered cases vs deaths its around an 8% mortality rate.  

 

 

I think the 1% mortality rate come from the ratio of deaths to assumed actual cases which is a lower figure than deaths divided by confirmed cases. 

[hotandsticky]

11 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

I have just re read the first ten pages of this thread and not one Brit has defended the UK Govs handling of the Corona virus , although there have been numerous critical posts .

  Yes, there are a small contingent of Thai bashing posters on here  , but are they all Brits ?

But anyway, its not all and every Brit doing the Thai bashing , so theres no need for yourself to declare war on Brits because we are not all Brit defending Thai bashers

 

 

+1

 

I am British and will criticise Brits, or Thais, as and when I consider it appropriate. 

 

 

Nobody is perfect so it is easy for us armchair critics to have a pop at someone.

 

 

As far as Covid-19 is concerned you can criticise any government because they have all made mistakes in these unprecedented circumstances. Thailand has done very well and, whilst I think that they have been fortunate, they have acted pretty decisively. Over the top at times and I would argue that some ongoing restrictions are excessive for Thailand's situation. On the other hand the UK were slow to act when stronger action was required; not screening UK arrivals (as was common practice in Asia) was a mistake as was the initial herd immunity strategy. Nevertheless, I think that the UK government are genuinely trying to do their best and, whilst I am not Johnson's biggest fan, I would rather see him at the helm rather than any other current political figure.

 

Coronavirus is not a pi55ing competition - whether Thailand has done better than Malaysia, or Sweden has done better than Netherlands who may, or not, have done better than the UK - or anyone else - is irrelevant. This has been/is a global pandemic with each country doing the best it can.

[sezze]

16 hours ago, smedly said:

based on what ? your own funky maths lol

 

Based on sound scientific data from countries that actually bother to measure it should be about 15-20% with a mortality rate around 1% - can you do that maths

Thats Trump logic , its deatrh toll now is higher by any means you count . Can it be 1 % , sure , but so far your nr isnt right . And what does the 1% tell you , 1% of 7.8 billion , so 78million deaths , good enough nr for you ? And what about the millions more who do need kidney transplants , lungs at 50% ......

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

Of course in your xenophobic mind it there was no possibility of infected Italians returning from China, as was the case in Iran.

It was someone that had been to HK that infected a party in BKK, and it was someone who had been to Singapore that brought the first cases to France and the UK, but the narrow minded only have eyes for the Chinese.

 

 

The first confirmation of spread to Italy occurred on 31 January 2020 when two Chinese tourists in Rome tested positive for the virus

[smedly]

1 hour ago, Snow Leopard said:

Where do you get the 1% mortality rate from? It might be that number in the end given the number of unknown asymptomatic cases but its not the actual known rate right now. Funky numbers indeed.  

very accurate data has been collected from sample testing in many places around the world and they all conclude pretty much the same thing

 

do you own research - you can start with Dr John Campbell who does all the donkey work for you

 

Keep your feet for dancing

[smedly]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Strangely I don't see many posts of that nature here. But my apologies to those who do think the UK did it wrongly. I just feel as a general rule that the Brits on here have a hard time accepting critisism.

 

But I will accept what you said and stop blanket statements. 

the ONS report pretty accurate data probably the most accurate in the world, many are not so accurate and that includes EU countries  

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, smedly said:

the ONS report pretty accurate data probably the most accurate in the world, many are not so accurate and that includes EU countries  

If yo compare death rates above normal death rates like in the BBC article i quoted quite a few times then you got the best data there is (still has its flaws but best).

 

That data shows for instance (after a correction for population) the UK having a 40% higher deaths then my country. IMHO that shows the UK did NOT do a good job at all. They are among the highest in Europe.

 

Can criticize the UK on many things but their BBC does some good journalism. Finding all the death rates and comparing them is great. Something many wondered about as that way you can't hide deaths.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-53073046

[smedly]

34 minutes ago, JCP108 said:

I think the 1% mortality rate come from the ratio of deaths to assumed actual cases which is a lower figure than deaths divided by confirmed cases. 

not assumed - they have actually carried out population samples all of which concluded the same thing - total infections versus deaths which includes asymptomatic cases that were never presented to medical centers, the other estimated findings are that 20% have been infected in populations not the actual recorded presented figures of well below that

[smedly]

39 minutes ago, sezze said:

Thats Trump logic , its deatrh toll now is higher by any means you count . Can it be 1 % , sure , but so far your nr isnt right . And what does the 1% tell you , 1% of 7.8 billion , so 78million deaths , good enough nr for you ? And what about the millions more who do need kidney transplants , lungs at 50% ......

actually yes - 1%, consider that it is accurately estimated that only 20% of the populations of infected countries have had the virus so yes your projections are accurate if you consider we have a long way to go to reach so called herd immunity of 70%, this thing is no where near done and has a long way to go

 

The only thing that will alter mortality rates and infections is a magic bullet of either effective treatment for those hospitalised or a vaccine 

[smedly]

23 minutes ago, robblok said:

If yo compare death rates above normal death rates

I did from actual historical data and what the government were producing was accurate - unfortunately the BBC is not a reliable source for anything at the moment and it shames me to say that

[robblok]

8 minutes ago, smedly said:

I did from actual historical data and what the government were producing was accurate - unfortunately the BBC is not a reliable source for anything at the moment and it shames me to say that

You mean it does not conform with what you want it to be. That is not the same thing.

[JCP108]

43 minutes ago, smedly said:

not assumed - they have actually carried out population samples all of which concluded the same thing - total infections versus deaths which includes asymptomatic cases that were never presented to medical centers, the other estimated findings are that 20% have been infected in populations not the actual recorded presented figures of well below that

I am just explaining my understanding of the concept of mortality rate as used by epidemiologists discussing the pandemic. If one wants to say something about the mortality rate, it points conceptually to how many people who actually have it who then actually die. The reported confirmed cases is going to be a subset of the actual cases. So, to dial in on the actual mortality rate (percentage of infected who then die), you have to try to use the confirmed cases to point to the assumed actual number (a number you can't objectively measure but you can infer). 

Edited July 7, 2020 by JCP108

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

If yo compare death rates above normal death rates like in the BBC article i quoted quite a few times then you got the best data there is (still has its flaws but best).

 

That data shows for instance (after a correction for population) the UK having a 40% higher deaths then my country. IMHO that shows the UK did NOT do a good job at all. They are among the highest in Europe.

 

Can criticize the UK on many things but their BBC does some good journalism. Finding all the death rates and comparing them is great. Something many wondered about as that way you can't hide deaths.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-53073046

UK bungled big time when it came to releasing elderly patients from hospital to care homes- about half of its deaths in total.

There were also high infection rates in hospitals due to lack of PPE.  It was a disaster really.  Perhaps the worst aspect was going too late in to lockdown, for which there is really no excuse, as it was obvious what was happening in Italy.

 

Since then death rates have become significantly lower- having decreased by 75% in hospital patients.  The country is also at the forefront of treatment development, and vaccines, and was the first to rigorously pioneer the use of dexamethasone, which is thought to reduce death rates in seriously ill patients by 20%.

 

 

[robblok]

11 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

UK bungled big time when it came to releasing elderly patients from hospital to care homes- about half of its deaths in total.

There were also high infection rates in hospitals due to lack of PPE.  It was a disaster really.  Perhaps the worst aspect was going too late in to lockdown, for which there is really no excuse, as it was obvious what was happening in Italy.

 

Since then death rates have become significantly lower- having decreased by 75% in hospital patients.  The country is also at the forefront of treatment development, and vaccines, and was the first to rigorously pioneer the use of dexamethasone, which is thought to reduce death rates in seriously ill patients by 20%.

 

 

Not only the UK bungled with elderly patients, same drama happened where I am from. 

 

Death rates all over have become lower because more is known and there is less strain on hospitals as infection rates dropped. The US might be the exception as the rates of infection are going up there.

[ExpatOne]

On 7/6/2020 at 4:37 AM, scubascuba3 said:

They obviously don't trust the Thai government figures provided, test numbers were very low and shady

They are opening up for a little bit of tourism, that puts the country at risk. That also makes it easy for let’s say...Chinese...to come to Thailand as a medical tourist and then head to the UK. 

[smedly]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

You mean it does not conform with what you want it to be. That is not the same thing.

I meant and said exactly what I wanted to say and I fully understood it, if you're not getting it then don't read it, I certainly don't need corrected by the likes of you - you're way out of your depth and that applies to most of what you say on here

 

so take your sinister cynical loaded criticism elsewhere it's wasted on me and pretty much everyone else  

 

Long winded way of saying go ---------------------

Edited July 7, 2020 by smedly

[Snow Leopard]

2 hours ago, smedly said:

very accurate data has been collected from sample testing in many places around the world and they all conclude pretty much the same thing

 

do you own research - you can start with Dr John Campbell who does all the donkey work for you

 

Keep your feet for dancing

Aye and keep the haggis in yer heed for eating. All the testing data you have mentioned is in the numbers i quoted. 

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/