Orac Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 I have cover with WRLife that i took out several months ago. Even though it had an ‘unusual’ set up for an insurance company it did appear to have strong connections to Thailand with partners linked with a major Thailand healthcare/hospital group. I notice from their company filings in the UK that all the Thai partners resigned a couple of months ago which rings alarm bells for me. https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/OC401682/officers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrymahoney Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 After following from the link above: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mshuert Posted September 24, 2023 Share Posted September 24, 2023 On 9/14/2023 at 6:49 PM, KannikaP said: How do 'real' insurance companies do it? Yes, they invest the money coming in, to pay out claims, which hopefully are less than the premiums invested. “Real” insurance companies reinsure their excess risk to avoid bankruptcy due to excess claims. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBChiangRai Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 As I understand it WR Life have no legal entity here in Thailand, they are UK based but wouldn't be allowed to sell their product in the UK without the necessary financial capital & licence. It sounds a bit risky to me. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewsterbudgen Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 2 hours ago, JBChiangRai said: As I understand it WR Life have no legal entity here in Thailand, they are UK based but wouldn't be allowed to sell their product in the UK without the necessary financial capital & licence. It sounds a bit risky to me. Yeah, it took a bit of convincing by my broker, but in my 3rd year with them now and no complaints. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBChiangRai Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 35 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said: Yeah, it took a bit of convincing by my broker, but in my 3rd year with them now and no complaints. I suspect they wouldn't be allowed to sell here if they had a company entity here, they would probably have to show capital reserves of a certain size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBChiangRai Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 4 hours ago, JBChiangRai said: As I understand it WR Life have no legal entity here in Thailand, they are UK based but wouldn't be allowed to sell their product in the UK without the necessary financial capital & licence. It sounds a bit risky to me. A friend of mine owned WR Finance and it prompted me to investigate WR Life. WR Life is a LLP company (limited liability, partnership) registered in the UK at what looks like an accommodation address in London. It has 2 active officers, neither of whom live in the UK. One lives in France and the other in India. It had a few officers from a company creation outfit in Bangkok who all recently resigned. Here’s my take. It stinks. The Thai officers probably resigned because they found out what the company does and realised it is probably illegal in Thailand. The insurance industry is regulated for a reason. I reckon it will trade ok until it doesn’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkk6060 Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 2 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said: Yeah, it took a bit of convincing by my broker, but in my 3rd year with them now and no complaints. Ok. Have you had to use the insurance and they paid up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewsterbudgen Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 46 minutes ago, bkk6060 said: Ok. Have you had to use the insurance and they paid up? Thankfully not! My broker says he has dealt with some successful WRLife claims; hopefully I'll never have to, but rest assured I will post my experience here, good or bad, if I do! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBChiangRai Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 7 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said: Thankfully not! My broker says he has dealt with some successful WRLife claims; hopefully I'll never have to, but rest assured I will post my experience here, good or bad, if I do! Who will you go after if it fails? A typical scam will pay out small claims until it’s time to disappear with the money. That could be triggered by a regulator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrymahoney Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 (edited) Personally, as noted earlier this topic, WrLife has paid out to me in claims what will take them years of future premiums from me for them to break-even. Following a detailed medical underwriting, I have a life insurance policy here in Thailand which has an optional medical rider available for me which I can trigger up to age 90. It has been said many times on here that the WrLife business model is unsustainable. Some on here have already suggested it is a scam and seem to be almost hoping it does fail. But, at least so far, it has worked out well for me. What others choose to do, up to them. Edited September 26, 2023 by jerrymahoney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewsterbudgen Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 23 hours ago, JBChiangRai said: Who will you go after if it fails? A typical scam will pay out small claims until it’s time to disappear with the money. That could be triggered by a regulator. Hopefully my broker (UK guy based in Bangkok) will feel so guilty that he'll sort me out a good deal with another insurer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orac Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 On 9/25/2023 at 12:19 PM, JBChiangRai said: A friend of mine owned WR Finance and it prompted me to investigate WR Life. WR Life is a LLP company (limited liability, partnership) registered in the UK at what looks like an accommodation address in London. It has 2 active officers, neither of whom live in the UK. One lives in France and the other in India. It had a few officers from a company creation outfit in Bangkok who all recently resigned. Here’s my take. It stinks. The Thai officers probably resigned because they found out what the company does and realised it is probably illegal in Thailand. The insurance industry is regulated for a reason. I reckon it will trade ok until it doesn’t. The officers that stepped down included Navin Vanasin who, as part of the Vanasin family, own Thonrburi Healthcare Group with a number of private hospitals in Thailand. She also is a director there and sits on their Executive Committee. It was her involvement that gave me some confidence in WRLife with the suggestion that they had the access to extensive medical facilities throughout Thailand. Without that link it gives bad vibes of a business that might suddenly vanish should someone deem the cash on hand enough to walk away with or claims exceed premiums at some point and there is nothing underwriting them. https://www.thg.co.th/en/management/management-team/25/ms-nalin-vanasin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KannikaP Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 On 9/25/2023 at 9:44 AM, brewsterbudgen said: Yeah, it took a bit of convincing by my broker, but in my 3rd year with them now and no complaints. Have you claimed from them, and did they pay up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KannikaP Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 (edited) On 9/26/2023 at 1:18 PM, brewsterbudgen said: Hopefully my broker (UK guy based in Bangkok) will feel so guilty that he'll sort me out a good deal with another insurer! Over the last few years, since I turned 65, I looked all over the market to find a reasonably priced Insurance policy. Only WR Life was in my range. I took out policy with them as it was in my financial range, payable monthly, but quit after 5 months because of the bad attitude of the 'Boss', based in France I think. Glad I did. Now I am 'self insured' ie I shall use the Government Hospital and pay it myself. Edited September 28, 2023 by KannikaP 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewsterbudgen Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 5 minutes ago, KannikaP said: Have you claimed from them, and did they pay up? Fortunately not! My broker has dealt with some claims and says there were no major issues. ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KannikaP Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 1 minute ago, brewsterbudgen said: Fortunately not! My broker has dealt with some claims and says there were no major issues. ???? That's good, but I still have my bargepole here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBChiangRai Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 If it is a get rich scheme, you have absolutely no recourse, they don't have a legal entity here so you can't sue them, are you going to sue a UK company owned by India and French residents? The life insurance industry here is strictly regulated and there is no legal entity here to get government approval. I am not even sure selling policies here is even legal, I hope the brokers selling it have covered themselves legally, I suspect they are breaking the law. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KannikaP Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said: If it is a get rich scheme, you have absolutely no recourse, they don't have a legal entity here so you can't sue them, are you going to sue a UK company owned by India and French residents? The life insurance industry here is strictly regulated and there is no legal entity here to get government approval. I am not even sure selling policies here is even legal, I hope the brokers selling it have covered themselves legally, I suspect they are breaking the law. Totally agree 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewsterbudgen Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said: If it is a get rich scheme, you have absolutely no recourse, they don't have a legal entity here so you can't sue them, are you going to sue a UK company owned by India and French residents? The life insurance industry here is strictly regulated and there is no legal entity here to get government approval. I am not even sure selling policies here is even legal, I hope the brokers selling it have covered themselves legally, I suspect they are breaking the law. Time will tell. There's no doubt that their marketing and sales in Thailand are proving successful. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmatix Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 On 9/28/2023 at 8:44 AM, Orac said: The officers that stepped down included Navin Vanasin who, as part of the Vanasin family, own Thonrburi Healthcare Group with a number of private hospitals in Thailand. She also is a director there and sits on their Executive Committee. It was her involvement that gave me some confidence in WRLife with the suggestion that they had the access to extensive medical facilities throughout Thailand. Without that link it gives bad vibes of a business that might suddenly vanish should someone deem the cash on hand enough to walk away with or claims exceed premiums at some point and there is nothing underwriting them. https://www.thg.co.th/en/management/management-team/25/ms-nalin-vanasin Fortunately this is a family with the highest ethical standards. https://thethaiger.com/hot-news/crime/thg-chairman-who-lied-about-vaccines-for-stock-profit-resigns 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orac Posted September 30, 2023 Share Posted September 30, 2023 12 hours ago, Dogmatix said: Fortunately this is a family with the highest ethical standards. https://thethaiger.com/hot-news/crime/thg-chairman-who-lied-about-vaccines-for-stock-profit-resigns Maybe so but the 10 hospitals they have in Thailand gives a touch more confidence in any health insurance business they are involved with as opposed to a frenchman and an Indian running a small business in the UK, neither of who live there or in Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etaoin Shrdlu Posted September 30, 2023 Share Posted September 30, 2023 It appears that WRLife is incorporated in the UK with GBP1,000,000 in paid capital and is licensed and regulated by the Financial Services Commission on the island of Nevis in the Caribbean. This seems to be a legal and capital-efficient way to set up an insurance company from the standpoint of the owners. I'm not sure how well this would serve the policyholder in terms of regulatory assistance in the event of a dispute or provide comfort in terms of financial security of the insurer. But everyone has their own risk tolerance, so this may be fine for some. I do hope that WRLife is successful and that its policyholders get their valid claims paid promptly and in full. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBChiangRai Posted September 30, 2023 Share Posted September 30, 2023 19 minutes ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said: It appears that WRLife is incorporated in the UK with GBP1,000,000 in paid capital and is licensed and regulated by the Financial Services Commission on the island of Nevis in the Caribbean. This seems to be a legal and capital-efficient way to set up an insurance company from the standpoint of the owners. I'm not sure how well this would serve the policyholder in terms of regulatory assistance in the event of a dispute or provide comfort in terms of financial security of the insurer. But everyone has their own risk tolerance, so this may be fine for some. I do hope that WRLife is successful and that its policyholders get their valid claims paid promptly and in full. Paid capital doesn’t mean what you might think in the UK. There is no need to ever produce the money, what it does mean is, if the company goes bust, you have to account for where the 1 million capital went, and if it has debts that would account for it nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etaoin Shrdlu Posted September 30, 2023 Share Posted September 30, 2023 3 hours ago, JBChiangRai said: Paid capital doesn’t mean what you might think in the UK. There is no need to ever produce the money, what it does mean is, if the company goes bust, you have to account for where the 1 million capital went, and if it has debts that would account for it nicely. Yes, and this would mean that even less of the paid capital may be available to pay upcoming claims. But without a full balance sheet to examine, it is difficult to tell the financial security of the firm. The UK company is not set up as a UK insurance company, so statutory accounting rules regarding claim reserves and other insurance-specific accounting practices might not be disclosed. I have no idea as to what accounting practices the Nevis regulator may require. Usually such off-shore regulators have a light touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KannikaP Posted September 30, 2023 Share Posted September 30, 2023 (edited) On 9/26/2023 at 12:46 PM, jerrymahoney said: Personally, as noted earlier this topic, WrLife has paid out to me in claims what will take them years of future premiums from me for them to break-even. They would have used the Premiums which I paid to pay part of your claim. Thanks 555 You & I have discussed this a while back. Edited September 30, 2023 by KannikaP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBChiangRai Posted September 30, 2023 Share Posted September 30, 2023 I suspect when the first $400k claim comes in, it's "So long & thanks for all the fish". 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrymahoney Posted September 30, 2023 Share Posted September 30, 2023 11 hours ago, KannikaP said: They would have used the Premiums which I paid to pay part of your claim. Thanks 555 You & I have discussed this a while back. Well thank you for your support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrymahoney Posted September 30, 2023 Share Posted September 30, 2023 12 hours ago, JBChiangRai said: I suspect when the first $400k claim comes in, it's "So long & thanks for all the fish". https://aseannow.com/topic/1171655-wrlife-health-insurance-anyone-usedusing-them/?do=findComment&comment=18372420 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliebadenhop Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 I googled various hospitals and actually went to two different hospitals... to get detailed info on specific conditions/diseases. But particularly, why would a person want to $400,000 policy? That is WAY above what a person would ever have to spend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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