China warns UK: 'Dumping' Huawei will cost you

[Morch]

15 hours ago, Meat Pie 47 said:

But you can believe DT

 

No, you can't.

But then again, Trump (despite some of his followers' wishes) is not a permanent feature. Equating Trump with America is wrong. The same is not quite accurate with regard to his PRC counterpart.

[Patts]

On 7/15/2020 at 10:18 PM, webfact said:

Britain has become increasingly reliant on Chinese imports. Some 9% of all goods imported into Britain in 2018 - worth 43 billion pounds ($54 billion) - came from China, double the proportion from 15 years earlier.

9%, think that number is a wild underestimate; if all goods that are manufactured in China are included I would expect that the true number of imported goods is in the region of 80+% (excluding automotive)

 

Look at Amazon, virtually every company trading on there is Chinese and those that aren't Chinese are people sat at home buying chinese <deleted> off Alibaba, rebranding it and then selling it through "Fulfilled by Amazon". 

 

Amazon and eBay have made it easy for Chinese company and individuals to sell to the West and most people who buy off them don't even realise they are buying off Chinese companies. 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Patts

[talkman]

Dumping, that's what China think? In my opinion, if security is the issue China should understand and manufacture products that has no surveillance. I do not know if the news is true about the surveillance thing, but if that is the issue they should prove it wrong therefore any country would not worry about it. I think those countries that ban will not do it unless they prove it wrong because China is a great market, and they surely loss also in banning the phone. 

[GinBoy2]

I don't think those of you that have never lived in China really understand the country, and have this weird idea that, if you don't like Trump and/or the US, China is this great alternative.

 

I lived there in the early 2000's, and even then even while the surveillance State was still in its infancy it was everywhere.

Even then The Great Firewall was extremely good at blocking any problematic sites. Type in Tiananmen into a search engine, and you will, as I did have visit, to 'check I was OK'

 

Whenever you go into an elevator, even in your apartment building there is a camera, the State likes to know when you go in and out. I was there visiting friends about 5 years ago and couldn't believe the explosion in CCTV cameras everywhere, and my friends tell me facial recognition is very intense.

 

Then you get to technology. I worked for a major semiconductor equipment supplier, and I ran our Shanghai office. We supplied equipment to SMIC and all the major players in China at the time. So I get to the office, around 7:30am, then at 8am we were raided by police, detaining myself and several other staff members demanding that we give up intranet passwords. After 3 days I was released after the realized that all the passwords would at that time have been changed. Thats how they 'get' technology.

 

Then you have this narrative that the UK is simply bowing to US pressure, and I think one previous poster said, it was simply to replace Huawei with US network equipment.

 

That shows a fundamental lack of understanding. A majority of the semiconductors are designed in the US, but manufactured in a large part by TSMC in Taiwan, those same semiconductors are used in all network equipment, including Huawei. But the final product itself, that a different matter. The US doesn't really have a network equipment industry, the major beneficiaries will be Nokia & Ericsson.  And before anyone says it. The Nokia handset business is no more, but network infrastructure is alive and kicking.

 

The to answer about Trump.

Well, we all know he's a school yard bully, not very bright about almost anything, but I'm always reminding when I hear him huffing and puffing about a quote from Teddy Roosevelt; "Speak Softly, but carry a Big Stick".

Trump is almost the anti Teddy. He talks loudly but rarely does anything.

 

So the the CCP lovers on here, if's thats the future, God Help Us

Edited July 17, 2020 by GinBoy2

[steelepulse]

7 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

I don't think those of you that have never lived in China really understand the country, and have this weird idea that, if you don't like Trump and/or the US, China is this great alternative.

 

I lived there in the early 2000's, and even then even while the surveillance State was still in its infancy it was everywhere.

Even then The Great Firewall was extremely good at blocking any problematic sites. Type in Tiananmen into a search engine, and you will, as I did have visit, to 'check I was OK'

 

Whenever you go into an elevator, even in your apartment building there is a camera, the State likes to know when you go in and out. I was there visiting friends about 5 years ago and couldn't believe the explosion in CCTV cameras everywhere, and my friends tell me facial recognition is very intense.

 

Then you get to technology. I worked for a major semiconductor equipment supplier, and I ran our Shanghai office. We supplied equipment to SMIC and all the major players in China at the time. So I get to the office, around 7:30am, then at 8am we were raided by police, detaining myself and several other staff members demanding that we give up intranet passwords. After 3 days I was released after the realized that all the passwords would at that time have been changed. Thats how they 'get' technology.

 

Then you have this narrative that the UK is simply bowing to US pressure, and I think one previous poster said, it was simply to replace Huawei with US network equipment.

 

That shows a fundamental lack of understanding. A majority of the semiconductors are designed in the US, but manufactured in a large part by TSMC in Taiwan, those same semiconductors are used in all network equipment, including Huawei. But the final product itself, that a different matter. The US doesn't really have a network equipment industry, the major beneficiaries will be Nokia & Ericsson.  And before anyone says it. The Nokia handset business is no more, but network infrastructure is alive and kicking.

 

The to answer about Trump.

Well, we all know he's a school yard bully, not very bright about almost anything, but I'm always reminding whe I hear him huffing and puffing about a quote from Teddy Roosevelt; "Speak Softly, but carry a Big Stick".

Trump is almost the anti Teddy. He talks loudly but rarely does anything.

 

So the the CCP lovers on here, if's thats the future, God Help Us

SerpentZA is a good expat vlogger from South Africa on youtube that was there for around 15 years.  He went from loving it to loathing it over his stay there.  He and another vlogger laowhy86 made some great travel vlogs and also give a really good insight into life in China.  After watching their videos, no way I would want to live there.

[Eric Loh]

23 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

I don't think those of you that have never lived in China really understand the country, and have this weird idea that, if you don't like Trump and/or the US, China is this great alternative.

 

I lived there in the early 2000's, and even then even while the surveillance State was still in its infancy it was everywhere.

Even then The Great Firewall was extremely good at blocking any problematic sites. Type in Tiananmen into a search engine, and you will, as I did have visit, to 'check I was OK'

 

Whenever you go into an elevator, even in your apartment building there is a camera, the State likes to know when you go in and out. I was there visiting friends about 5 years ago and couldn't believe the explosion in CCTV cameras everywhere, and my friends tell me facial recognition is very intense.

 

Then you get to technology. I worked for a major semiconductor equipment supplier, and I ran our Shanghai office. We supplied equipment to SMIC and all the major players in China at the time. So I get to the office, around 7:30am, then at 8am we were raided by police, detaining myself and several other staff members demanding that we give up intranet passwords. After 3 days I was released after the realized that all the passwords would at that time have been changed. Thats how they 'get' technology.

 

Then you have this narrative that the UK is simply bowing to US pressure, and I think one previous poster said, it was simply to replace Huawei with US network equipment.

 

That shows a fundamental lack of understanding. A majority of the semiconductors are designed in the US, but manufactured in a large part by TSMC in Taiwan, those same semiconductors are used in all network equipment, including Huawei. But the final product itself, that a different matter. The US doesn't really have a network equipment industry, the major beneficiaries will be Nokia & Ericsson.  And before anyone says it. The Nokia handset business is no more, but network infrastructure is alive and kicking.

 

The to answer about Trump.

Well, we all know he's a school yard bully, not very bright about almost anything, but I'm always reminding when I hear him huffing and puffing about a quote from Teddy Roosevelt; "Speak Softly, but carry a Big Stick".

Trump is almost the anti Teddy. He talks loudly but rarely does anything.

 

So the the CCP lovers on here, if's thats the future, God Help Us

If you are not a spy or a terrorist, you got nothing to fear. There are a million foreigners in China and many have residence permits. Agree with you that Trump is not very bright and rarely does anything. How we missed Obama. 

[Morch]

1 minute ago, Eric Loh said:

If you are not a spy or a terrorist, you got nothing to fear. There are a million foreigners in China and many have residence permits. Agree with you that Trump is not very bright and rarely does anything. How we missed Obama. 

 

The definition of "spy", "terrorist" etc. is rather wide, and essentially, it's what the authorities want it to be. While it's great that you display so much trust in the PRC system, it's not even remotely believable.

[GinBoy2]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

The definition of "spy", "terrorist" etc. is rather wide, and essentially, it's what the authorities want it to be. While it's great that you display so much trust in the PRC system, it's not even remotely believable.

Well in general China laws are constructed to be somewhat vague, so that way the implementation can be interpreted by the authorities very arbitrarily, which is what terrifies a lot of people in HK right now, including the foreign business community

[GinBoy2]

44 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

The definition of "spy", "terrorist" etc. is rather wide, and essentially, it's what the authorities want it to be. While it's great that you display so much trust in the PRC system, it's not even remotely believable.

Well having experienced it, and No I'm not a spy I was just a regular working stiff, of course it's not believable.

 

TVF seems to have a acquired a few, probably paid trolls, who regardless of any presented evidence will continue to present the PRC as a land of milk and honey.

 

The UK is in an interesting place, not one unique to them either.

 

But for almost 20 years countries have turned a blind eye to what China really is. 

 

I think after 1997, and China's entry into the WTO, they thought China would become more like HK. 

 

Fact is it's actually gone backwards from that, while the West has been  happily exporting jobs to an increasingly authoritarian country all in the pursuit of profits. Meanwhile China has been happy to exploit it's WTO membership and at the same time flouting the rules without any consequence.

 

Xi sort of supercharged that whole dynamic, and the chickens are coming home to roost.

 

So that lightly veiled threat to the UK about Huawei, I'd just buckle up and expect a whole lot more

[car720]

14 hours ago, Morch said:

 

We should all remember. Well now. I think on at least a couple of past topics the claim regarding war being the mainstay of American economy were demonstrated to be wrong, all the more so with regard to exports and sales. While it's a very visible part, I doubt it actually makes it into the top ten.

 

The United States

 

WASHINGTON — The United States was the largest exporter of major arms from 2015-2019, delivering 76 percent more materiel than runner-up Russia, according to a new study by the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute think tank.

[rabas]

4 hours ago, car720 said:

The United States

 

WASHINGTON — The United States was the largest exporter of major arms from 2015-2019, delivering 76 percent more materiel than runner-up Russia, according to a new study by the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute think tank.

The US is the world's largest exporter of arms at roughly $10.5 billion per year representing less than 0.5% of $2.5 trillion total exports. Russian arm exports are 1.5% of total exports, or $6.5 billion.

 

China leads in exports that affect the world economy with SARS-2 estimated to cause $6 to $9 trillion in losses.

[car720]

2 hours ago, rabas said:

The US is the world's largest exporter of arms at roughly $10.5 billion per year representing less than 0.5% of $2.5 trillion total exports. Russian arm exports are 1.5% of total exports, or $6.5 billion.

 

China leads in exports that affect the world economy with SARS-2 estimated to cause $6 to $9 trillion in losses.

if 10.5 billion equal .5%, then how can 6.5 billion equal 1.5%?

[ravip]

3 minutes ago, car720 said:

if 10.5 billion equal .5%, then how can 6.5 billion equal 1.5%?

Don't thunk thoo muth.

[rabas]

11 minutes ago, car720 said:

if 10.5 billion equal .5%, then how can 6.5 billion equal 1.5%?

US $10.5B of $2500B total exports

Russia $6.5B of $430B total exports

 

morning lack of coffee? ????

 

Point being that US has a broad range of exports, arms are not a big deal.

 

BTW 52% of Russia's exports are carbon based fuels. A significant contributor to Russia's strategies around the globe.

 

Edited July 18, 2020 by rabas

[i84teen]

3 hours ago, car720 said:

if 10.5 billion equal .5%, then how can 6.5 billion equal 1.5%?

3 hours ago, car720 said:

 

lol:

"reading, riting, AND rith-matic, touch to the tune of the hickory stick.

Remember the 3R's?

1.05E+10/2.5E+12=??

<.5%

Edited July 18, 2020 by i84teen

[Bluespunk]

So it begins

 

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/jul/19/tiktok-halts-talks-on-london-headquarters-amid-uk-china-tensions?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[Morch]

On 7/18/2020 at 3:43 AM, car720 said:

The United States

 

WASHINGTON — The United States was the largest exporter of major arms from 2015-2019, delivering 76 percent more materiel than runner-up Russia, according to a new study by the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute think tank.

 

Deflection. That the USA is a major arms export isn't debated. Rather, the issue raised was the significance of the arms industry relative to total USA exports. You were saying something about "mainstay"?

[metisdead]

A post using content from an unapproved YouTube source has been removed. 

[Burma Bill]

12 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

So it begins

 

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/jul/19/tiktok-halts-talks-on-london-headquarters-amid-uk-china-tensions?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Tik-Tok:- 

 

[tifino]

the UK will sleep a little better, for 100% less than the cost of a Huawei 

[DrTuner]

12 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

So it begins

 

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/jul/19/tiktok-halts-talks-on-london-headquarters-amid-uk-china-tensions?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Good, nobody needs more Chinese spy apps.

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, DrTuner said:

Good, nobody needs more Chinese spy apps.

Don't we hate all those android spy tracking device in I-phone. Real time too.

[GinBoy2]

28 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Don't we hate all those android spy tracking device in I-phone. Real time too.

Well I'm sure your next paycheck will be rewarding you for trying to equate commercial avarice and state surveillance technology designed to suppress opposition

[Mavideol]

saw an interview of the Chinese ambassadors to the UK and to the US and was extremely surprised by their overall attitude/arrogance and body language not to mention the language they use when referring to the countries hosting them (the ambassadors) if that same attitude and language was used by the UK and/or US ambassadors to China they would be immediately expelled, escorted to the airport and put on the plane back home without any explanation.... many times saw foreign ambassadors in China being interviewed and regardless of the country never saw one with such arrogance or disdain towards China

[Mavideol]

15 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

So it begins

 

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/jul/19/tiktok-halts-talks-on-london-headquarters-amid-uk-china-tensions?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

but they (Tik Tok/Byte Dance) keep saying they are independent and in NOT under and type of control or obligations to the CCP.... I guess their rhetoric/ propaganda is just BS otherwise what's their relationship to Huawei.... same same but different (name) 555

 

Critics have warned it is a spying tool for Beijing and like Huawei should be banned by the UK. ByteDance has pointed out that it has an American chief executive and several US executives on its board. It has consistently denied allegations that it shares user data.

 

Edited July 20, 2020 by Mavideol

[GinBoy2]

3 hours ago, Mavideol said:

saw an interview of the Chinese ambassadors to the UK and to the US and was extremely surprised by their overall attitude/arrogance and body language not to mention the language they use when referring to the countries hosting them (the ambassadors) if that same attitude and language was used by the UK and/or US ambassadors to China they would be immediately expelled, escorted to the airport and put on the plane back home without any explanation.... many times saw foreign ambassadors in China being interviewed and regardless of the country never saw one with such arrogance or disdain towards China

I just watched an BBC interview with the China Ambassador to the UK, maybe the same one you are referring to.

 

Couldn't believe the arrogance of the entire thing, especially when the drone footage of Uighur's being herded blindfolded and handcuffed onto trains was shown.

 

Folks we have to now understand that today we are dealing with a wholly new aggressive China.

 

Maybe collectively we should decide that, the price of buying that cheap piece of furniture or the like from Walmart or Target manufactured in China, isn't worth the cost we will pay down the road

Edited July 20, 2020 by GinBoy2

[nattaya09]

On 7/16/2020 at 2:49 AM, RobFord said:

Shouldn’t be so negative. Come November 3rd there will be a huge flush and this US regime will be eliminated. The next will be more aggressive and intelligent. 
The conflict with China under Xi is only just heating up. I don’t think it serves anyone to have dominate Chinese technology with what’s coming. Huawei had to go. 

I'm sure Joe will drive a hard bargain.....might even go so far as demand Xi give Hunter his old Chinese job back

[JensenZ]

On 7/16/2020 at 5:05 AM, ezzra said:

China, the ultimate schoolyard bully...

Yes, they have being threatening Australia for months, and even followed through on some of their threats... now they have started on the UK. Who's next? Maybe sooner or later they will discover that they don't run the world as more and more countries start to cut financial ties.

 

Maybe the pandemic has done one good thing -  saved the world from Chinese domination. If Biden gets in we can probably expect the USA to get cosy with China again, as he believes a strong China is good for the whole world.

[GinBoy2]

1 minute ago, JensenZ said:

Yes, they have being threatening Australia for months, and even followed through on some of their threats... now they have started on the UK. Who's next? Maybe sooner or later they will discover that they don't run the world as more and more countries start to cut financial ties.

 

Maybe the pandemic has done one good thing -  saved the world from Chinese domination. If Biden gets in we can probably expect the USA to get cosy with China again, as he believes a strong China is good for the whole world.

Not sure thats true about Biden

 

The whole Western world has finally awoken from the fantasy that China was going to move towards a move democratic, if still one party system.

 

Joe in recent weeks has been spouting some pretty hardline statements about China.

 

What we are seeing however is the failure of the past 20 years of collective Western government's to understand the risk China poses.

 

Chickens coming home to roost I fear

[kingdong]

3 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

Not sure thats true about Biden

 

The whole Western world has finally awoken from the fantasy that China was going to move towards a move democratic, if still one party system.

 

Joe in recent weeks has been spouting some pretty hardline statements about China.

 

What we are seeing however is the failure of the past 20 years of collective Western government's to understand the risk China poses.

 

Chickens coming home to roost I fear

if i had burnt my bridges and lived in thailand i would be feeling distinctly apprehensive just now.