Britain nears abandoning Brexit trade deal hope - The Telegraph

[AndrewMciver]

5 hours ago, ukrules said:

 

 

For example, how many 1000's have washed up in boats since we left the EU? What will they do when we send them all back to France?

 

 

This is just really sad.

 

I didn't vote for Brexit, but i accept it, and hope for the best. But it's hard when you have xenophobes embolded like this. 

 

 

Edited July 22, 2020 by AndrewMciver

[AndrewMciver]

2 hours ago, Andrew65 said:

1. Add 3+ million migrants, mainly from eastern Europe.
2. Simmer over a period of 10 years of cuts, austerity & a housing crisis.
3. Fail to convince people of what a great success it's been.

4. Have a referendum on Brexit.
????

All the main political parties in the UK were (still are) staunchly pro-immigration, as is the EU. In what is supposed to be a democracy the electorate effectively had no say in the matter.

 

I have news for you. 

 

Immigration won't stop. Rich companies will still want cheap labour, especially on construction. Replace Eastern European cheap labour with Indian labour. 

 

Every single country from the USA (mexicans), Canada (indians), Australia (indians and asian countries), even the cute New Zealand (asian countries) talk tough on immigration, but they still allow a boat load to enter to do the manual hard labour. 

 

One of the prices of a trade deal with India will be to let in more indians, especially to 'study'. 

 

 

[bert bloggs]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

Easily within the next 5 years. There is already a consistent majority for independence in Scotland.

Northern Ireland will look to its southern neighbors and see how well they are doing while Brexitland is mired in economic hardship and will decide they want to join the Republic.

Last to go will be Wales. But after they see a successful independent Scotland and Northern Ireland prospering they will eventually decide to give it a go themselves.

Just another Brexit dividend. You were all warned about this remember? 

time to wake up now ,cant keep on dreaming.

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

The difference is that the UK doesn't have to pay to rebuild the pauper EU economies like Poland and Hungary. They spend it on rebuilding the UK economy, putting the money where they like, when they like.

 

It's not really a difficult concept.

 

 

 

 

This current government likes putting the money into the Caymans through multiple shell companies. That, and via sham contracts for essential PPE that they know will never be delivered. 

[stephenterry]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

And who do we have to thank for that, if the remainers hadn't tried to stifle the democratic decision of the referendum we would have been out 2 years ago and saved a fortune. Well done to all the remainers for costing our country a hefty price, and for what?

 

i guess maths is not your strong point. Figures from the House of Commons Library put the UK's total projected contribution to the EU budget from 1973 to 2020 at £215 billion after adjusting for inflation.

 

Yeah, 2 year extrapolated savings of £9.15 billion - ((215/43)*2) ignoring inflation but also at an early exit cost that would have depleted the economy by at least a similar amount. Business confidence and investment has dipped, and annualized economic growth has fallen to about 1% from 2%.

 

Whatever which way you look at it, the UK economy has suffered c.£130 billion to date, when in your surmise it could have been £120.5 billion instead.

 

So, IMO, the leavers have cost the country a hefty price, not the remainers. Live with the truth and facts.  

Edited July 22, 2020 by stephenterry
add

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

The UK was the member, not England. Just so you know for next time.

 

The EU never paid for anything for the UK anyway. We were a net contributor. That means we paid for the paupers. Nobody paid for us. Now we keep that money to spend on ourselves. Capiche?

This is what you wrote: “The difference is that now we can spend the money rebuilding our own economy, instead of the economies of Poland, Hungary etc.“ So there really is no difference. EU members are spending money to rebuild their own economy. That economy includes countries like Poland and Italy. Same as your economy includes Wales and Northern Ireland. Our economy is called the single market. Yours is called the UK. 
 

Edited July 22, 2020 by welovesundaysatspace

[RuamRudy]

3 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Why is it odd?

 

It's likely that any deal with the EU would involve us compromising on our immigration policy. The two are intrinsically linked.

 

Nice attempt to shout RACIST without actually saying it though. Bravo. Well done.

What are your thoughts on the demands of the Indian or Chinese governments when it comes to us begging for their succour? Who will need whom the most?

[bannork]

20 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

What are your thoughts on the demands of the Indian or Chinese governments when it comes to us begging for their succour? Who will need whom the most?

The Chinese will demand the reinstatement of Huawei 5G equipped with spyware equipment.

[RuamRudy]

Just now, bannork said:

The Chinese will demand the reinstatement of Huawei 5G equipped with spyware equipment.

True - I as merely thinking of restrictions on visa requirements but you are spot on; popular focus has been on the US intent to asset strip our NHS but there is no reason not to assume that Chinese and Indian vultures will not be circling the carcass too. 

[JonnyF]

22 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

What are your thoughts on the demands of the Indian or Chinese governments when it comes to us begging for their succour? Who will need whom the most?

I'm sure they'll ask for many things in their opening position.

 

However, both countries governments are realists and pragmatists. Both are capable of reasonable negotiation. Neither seeks to punish us purely out of spite and revenge for perceived rejection. Neither will try to use trade talks to subjugate us under their rule of law under the guise of a level playing field. All of this completely unlike the EU.

 

Personally I would hope China sorted out their disgraceful human rights record before we sign a trade deal with them. I know this is a foreign concept to many Remainers who only care about % of GDP but some things are more important that dollar signs. Huawei can do one as well.

[JonnyF]

13 minutes ago, bannork said:

The Chinese will demand the reinstatement of Huawei 5G equipped with spyware equipment.

WTO it is then.

 

The vast majority of trade is done on WTO terms. No problem.

 

 

[welovesundaysatspace]

27 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

WTO it is then.

 

The vast majority of trade is done on WTO terms. No problem.

There is only one country in the world that trades only under WTO rules: Mauritania. Its GDP is $4,714million (0.2% of the UK’s), 50% of its exports consist of Iron Ore, and between 1% and 17% of the population still live in slavery. And even Mauritania does benefit from preferential treatment from certain developed nations (the EU amongst them), where Mauritania’s exports in certain categories (everything but arms) are not charged import duties, but those countries goods can have tariffs added when being imported into Mauritania.

[RuamRudy]

40 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I'm sure they'll ask for many things in their opening position.

 

However, both countries governments are realists and pragmatists. Both are capable of reasonable negotiation. Neither seeks to punish us purely out of spite and revenge for perceived rejection. Neither will try to use trade talks to subjugate us under their rule of law under the guise of a level playing field. All of this completely unlike the EU.

 

Personally I would hope China sorted out their disgraceful human rights record before we sign a trade deal with them. I know this is a foreign concept to many Remainers who only care about % of GDP but some things are more important that dollar signs. Huawei can do one as well.

You brought to mind a story I read several years ago - I think it was about a report in the West Highland Free Press or something similar: "Stornoway Parish Council Issues Warning to Chinese Government Over Human Rights".

[Loiner]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

(Reuters) - Britain and the European Union will fail to sign a post-Brexit trade deal, with only a few days left before Prime Minister Boris Johnson's July deadline, The Telegraph reported.

 

 

 

(Reporting by Aakriti Bhalla in Bengaluru; Editing by Sandra Maler and Marguerita Choy)

Ah, a new Brexit thread - TVF has another anti-Brexit Reuters press release. The trouble is they don't even realise that No Deal actually a great Brexit move. They even nicked the report from The Telegraph of all places.

 

Who is reporting this?

[Bluespunk]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

The UK government's assumption is that there will not be a deal, though it remains possible that a "basic" agreement could be reached if the EU gives ground in the autumn

Ah, the arrogance. 

[welovesundaysatspace]

11 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Ah, a new Brexit thread - TVF has another anti-Brexit Reuters press release.

Yet still here you are, reading Reuters, while there are certainly many other options out there that you approve of. (I’m not constantly hanging around in the Daily Express comments section complaining about their reporting; in fact, I have removed them an many others from Google News for a long time already.)

 

[Proboscis]

8 hours ago, ukrules said:

Drastic changes are coming in the next 3-4 weeks.

 

They won't know what hit them but they know it's coming, we left the EU many months ago.

 

With no deal on the table there's a lot more leeway and we won't be playing ball with the French.

 

For example, how many 1000's have washed up in boats since we left the EU? What will they do when we send them all back to France?

 

I always love it when anything about Brexit up and out come the trolls and the Russian bots.

 

As everyone knows only too well, the problem with the migrants coming from France illegally has been going on for years, long before Brexit was even voted on. When the Home Secretary went to France, she applauded the French for what they were doing in keeping the smugglers from launching migrants into the sea - but your Home Secretary had a different story to tell when she came back to the UK.

 

The real story is that EU countries have systems where if you want to live there, you need to register and have an ID - EVEN IF YOU HAVE A PASSPORT FROM ANOTHER EU COUNTRY. The UK has chosen not to. And therefore it is easy for migrants to melt away into the population. Not exactly a French population, is it?

 

And it is not exactly a French problem that Brexit has not solved all of the problems that many British were told were the fault of the EU.

 

Be careful about "not playing ball with the French." If they stop policing their side of the channel, the numbers crossing will not be in the hundreds per year but in the tens of thousands.

 

Time to get real and wake up. Now that Brexit is over, you cannot blame everything on the EU/French/Germans etc. Good luck with your attitude to the Russians, by the way. See how well that has been going. It is so bad that no one has any idea whether the Russians interfered with your elections, whether it was they who were telling you that it was the EU that was the cause of all of your problems. Remember that no EU government used a nerve agent to assasinate British citizens on British soil - but the Russians did!

[dunroaming]

Backwards and forwards, backwards and forwards, the bickering is back!  Just like it has never been away. ????

 

Speculate all you like but with Johnson's majority in the house, he will do whatever he wants to.  We are all being led by a liar and a hypocrite so let's not expect anything else. 

[Loiner]

1 hour ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Yet still here you are, reading Reuters, while there are certainly many other options out there that you approve of. (I’m not constantly hanging around in the Daily Express comments section complaining about their reporting; in fact, I have removed them an many others from Google News for a long time already.)

 

Don't worry, we don't need Daily Express reports to see that everything is going OK really, regardless of attempts to spin otherwise. All very similar to the bias Beeb reporting which didn't have the desired effect either. 

The  anti-Brexit reports must be for the benefit of Remainers and the likes of yourself. You can remove the truth from your Google news all you like, but it's still happening. 

[kamahele]

9 hours ago, ukrules said:

Drastic changes are coming in the next 3-4 weeks.

 

They won't know what hit them but they know it's coming, we left the EU many months ago.

 

With no deal on the table there's a lot more leeway and we won't be playing ball with the French.

 

For example, how many 1000's have washed up in boats since we left the EU? What will they do when we send them all back to France?

 

I'm sure they shaking in their boots.....

[welovesundaysatspace]

5 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Don't worry, we don't need Daily Express reports to see that everything is going OK really, regardless of attempts to spin otherwise. All very similar to the bias Beeb reporting which didn't have the desired effect either. 

The  anti-Brexit reports must be for the benefit of Remainers and the likes of yourself. You can remove the truth from your Google news all you like, but it's still happening. 

My question was what drives someone to read a news source that he considers <insert all your unfounded allegations here>. You have noticed that TVF sources all its World News from Reuters, didn’t you? 

[David in the north]

9 hours ago, stephenterry said:

It probably doesn't matter one iota as this government, headed by a muppet, is capable of mismanaging everything from the Coronavirus, the NHS, the Care home deaths, their own backbenchers, Russian infiltration, and the economy - which will be funded by the taxpayer for decades after. 

 

It's a pity that Starmer won't be in Downing St until winning the 2024 election- or hopefully earlier if a no confidence vote is successful. As for fishing rights who'd want to risk their health by consuming polluted fish anyway? 

 

England - I'm sad to say is currently a waste of space... 

Absolute rubbish

[tribalfusion001]

Deal or no deal, doesn't make any difference, the whole world is f*cked from this self inflicted meltdown.

[Lormak]

Great news!  

I know Remainers are only interested in the money - but to some of us freedom, independence and the right to determine our own destiny are more important.  Democracy has prevailed. We voted to leave and leave we will, no deals and no strings.

The salt of the Earth working classes don't care about a deal.

And any business not ready for WTO terms has only itself to blame - four years to prepare!

[7by7]

11 hours ago, ukrules said:

<snip>

For example, how many 1000's have washed up in boats since we left the EU? What will they do when we send them all back to France?

Nothing at all to do with the EU; another myth Brexiteers have fallen for.

 

International, not EU, law means that once they are in UK territorial waters they are the UK's responsibility.

 

At the moment only a small percentage of those in France make it that far; but maybe after Brexit is finalised the French authorities will take your lead and send all those camped out in France to the UK! Why should they do us any favours?

[Pique Dard]

brexit? whatever johnson said about it claiming it is done, it is just the opposite because there are still a lot of talks and negotiations to be conducted, ie the end was the beginning! and it may take years before brexit becomes actual

[7by7]

10 hours ago, Andrew65 said:

It's the Schengen border.
 

It's ECHR that stops the UK from extraditing, with the ECJ having the final say. People always say that these things (ECHR) have nothing to do with the EU, but a country has to be a signatory to it to be a member of the EU.

Another Brexiteer lie that you've fallen for.

 

The ECHR was first mooted in 1948 by, among others, Winston Churchill. It was signed in 1950 and the UK was a founding signatory. There are currently 47 signatories, which includes the 27 EU members.

 

The ECJ is the EU's court. The ECHR has it's own court; the European Court of Human Rights.

 

But the ECHR does not stop the UK from deporting asylum seekers, especially those whose claims have failed.

[ukrules]

15 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

At the moment only a small percentage of those in France make it that far; but maybe after Brexit is finalised the French authorities will take your lead and send all those camped out in France to the UK! Why should they do us any favours?

You're not getting it. The UK is changing the way this kind of thing is dealt with and the French won't like it one bit.

 

We don't need favours from the French, they will take back the refugees they've been assisting to enter the UK. Just watch it happen.

 

[7by7]

10 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

<snip>

Maybe I'm missing something, but doesn't the UN state that refugees should seek asylum in the first safe country they arrive in?

 You are missing something.

 

The UN refugee convention does not say that a refugee must seek asylum in the first safe country they reach.

[7by7]

10 hours ago, Andrew65 said:

There are very many Somali people in the UK....on Dutch passports.

about 10% of the Somalis living in the UK arrived with Dutch passports.

 

The rest either entered legally following the war, or came as refugees and were granted asylum.

 

10 hours ago, Andrew65 said:

Once Frau Merkel gives the millions that she invited to Germany German/EU passports, they can do the same

Unless Johnson's deal binds us to the Freedom of Movement directive; no they can't.