U.S. to withdraw about 12,000 troops from Germany but nearly half to stay in Europe

[Thomas J]

The war ended in 1945 that is 75 years ago.  Germany has the 4th largest economy in the world, the U.K. 6th and France 7th.  Seems like they should have enough money to support their own defense.  

[Eric Loh]

20 minutes ago, unblocktheplanet said:

So what? Why is the US involved at all militarily in other nations' business? Even if one side in a civil war, asks for US help, that help should arrive in the form of humanitarian aid, peacekeeping, and diplomatic overtures. Really, are we not our of the caves yet? Has any war ever solved anything permanently? Consider that closely. All the issues underlying the conflict are still present. So instead of working it out like civilised people, we prefer to shoot first, and said said by the Marines, "Kill 'em all & let God sort 'em out". Utter folly.

 

Biden was Obama's warmaker. If he's made President, he'll continue the extravagant military stupidity which has characterised foreign relation since Korea.

So nothing if you bother to understand that I was replying to the post that posed the question whether Russian bear is hibernating. The list of Russian military involvements in various countries demonstrate that they have ambition and a threat in Europe and NATO is the counter balance with or without US military. Besides it is also US's interest to keep Russia at bay. US goes to war not to help others but for their self interest whether strategic interest or economic interest for their military industries and for oil. It is a common knowledge that Republicans are perceived as more eager to partake in military endeavors with the US acting as world's policeman. Democrats believe that cooperation is better than conflict.  

[mtls2005]

3 hours ago, Emdog said:

Trump must be a very busy whatever these days. Putin has seen writing on the wall, given Trump a long "to do" list & "get it done before next January" marching orders.

 

trump has had eight (8) calls with the boss (putin) in the past 8 weeks.

 

trump says they did not discuss Bounty-gate.

 

putin has him on a very short leash.

 

 

 

 

[simple1]

4 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Germany doesn't and hasn't met it's committed amount of spend as per NATO agreement. End of. 

 

 

In 2014 NATO members reached an agreement they would invest 2% annually of their GDP by 2024 to support the Alliance. trump unilaterally tore up the agreement. NATO members have of course additionally spent billions fighting alongside US forces since the formation of NATO.

 

The link below from a credible organisation provides some interesting topics for thought regards the NATO Alliance. One topic specific to the US...

 

United States grossly exaggerates its role in NATO by claiming credit for total defense spending. 

 

https://www.csis.org/analysis/nato-going-2-non-solution-meaningful-planning

[Opl]

1 hour ago, Thomas J said:

The war ended in 1945 that is 75 years ago.  Germany has the 4th largest economy in the world, the U.K. 6th and France 7th.  Seems like they should have enough money to support their own defense.  

In 2019:

- the US - population 330M - contributed nearly €470 million - to NATO's budget of €2.12 billion: 22% of NATO's budget

to be compared to;

Germany + France : population 150M - contribution: 25.2% of NATO's budget 

- Germany - population 83M - contribution 14,6 % of NATO's budget

- France - population 67M - contribution : 10.6% of NATO's budget  

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-to-match-us-contribution-to-nato-budget/a-51446211#:~:text=From 2021%2C Germany will increase,with what the US pays.&text=Starting in 2021%2C the share,from 22.1% to 16.35%.

But yes, The EU needs full strategic autonomy with regards to China, Turkey, ME, Africa..  

Reminder: Art 5 (collective defense) triggered once only, by the US

Edited July 30, 2020 by Opl

[billd766]

3 hours ago, riclag said:

PThere was a time when the far left would support

this!

Correction: Far left Americans

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/democrats-bring-troops-home-next-year/

Why is this news? The Op is dated March 2007. over 13 years ago.

 

AFAIK there are STILL US troops in Afghanistan. Why not pull them out of there first?

[OneMoreFarang]

9 hours ago, ratcatcher said:

What in God's name are 36,000 U.S. troops doing in Germany 75 years after the Second World War ended? 

Or is the Russian Bear still hibernating?

I know part of what they are doing has to do with the geographic location of Germany. The USA is doing things in Germany that they can't do from the USA.

Many, maybe all, US soldiers are in Germany not because they defend Germany. They are there because the USA want them in Germany to fight their wars i.e. in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.

So Donald shoot himself in the foot. Or to be more precise he shoots Americas interests in the feet.

Yeah, what a great decision.

Many Germans won't miss them. "Ami - Go Home"

[billd766]

15 minutes ago, Opl said:

In 2019:

- the US - population 330M - contributed nearly €470 million - to NATO's budget of €2.12 billion: 22% of NATO's budget

to be compared to;

Germany + France : population 150M - contribution: 25.2% of NATO's budget 

- Germany - population 83M - contribution 14,6 % of NATO's budget

- France - population 67M - contribution : 10.6% of NATO's budget  

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-to-match-us-contribution-to-nato-budget/a-51446211#:~:text=From 2021%2C Germany will increase,with what the US pays.&text=Starting in 2021%2C the share,from 22.1% to 16.35%.

But yes, The EU needs full strategic autonomy with regards to China, Turkey, ME, Africa..  

Reminder: Art 5 (collective defense) triggered once only, by the US

Don't forget the UK contribution which is the same as France.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-44717074#:~:text=The civilian and military budget,other members of the alliance.

[Isaan sailor]

Ever wonder why the Euro values so much higher than the USD?  Huge US Defense budget—much of it to NATO. BTW the Euro began life in 1999 with parity to the USD.

[pacovl46]

Great! Now take the remaining 24000 and move them out, too! You think you have to play war all over the world, not us! So how about you foot the bill yourself, instead of coming to beg at our doorstep and then get all salty and sulky when we don’t bend to your wishes?! 
 

I still remember when the UN voted more or less anonymously, except the UK, that the US do not go to Iraq for the second time, and still they went, and then they came begging for 200 million, if I remember correctly, at Germany’s doorstep to rebuild the country they’ve just destroyed! The nerve!!! 

Edited July 30, 2020 by pacovl46

[pacovl46]

34 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I know part of what they are doing has to do with the geographic location of Germany. The USA is doing things in Germany that they can't do from the USA.

Many, maybe all, US soldiers are in Germany not because they defend Germany. They are there because the USA want them in Germany to fight their wars i.e. in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.

So Donald shoot himself in the foot. Or to be more precise he shoots Americas interests in the feet.

Yeah, what a great decision.

Many Germans won't miss them. "Ami - Go Home"

Exactly! 
 

The US do nothing that won’t benefit themselves or at the very least they think it will benefit them.
 

They think they have to play war, so how about they foot the bill themselves, too?! 

 

 

[JulesMad]

Excellent! <deleted> off then...

[landmann]

I wish the German government would kick out the remaing military personal too because nobody really need them here anymore. We could use the current infrastructure for social housing projects, immigrants etc.. On top Germany may lower the NATO contribution and do something useful with the money saved. The Donald could build up airforce bases in Timbuktu, use the ones in Turkey or ask his brainless buddies in North Korea, the Phils, Brasil or the UK for help. I really give a <deleted> about his incapable way to run down a country like his Casinos.

[simple1]

10 hours ago, Isaan sailor said:

 Huge US Defense budget—much of it to NATO. 

Perhaps a good idea to acquaint yourself with some facts...

 

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_161633.htm

[AgMech Cowboy]

21 hours ago, stevenl said:

Ah, that's why he's moving headquarters and troops further away from Russia.

 

As far as I am concerned, please move the troops out.

Let me think... The Baltics (Lithuania was mentioned) and the Black Sea region, so much further away from Russia than Germany. Permanent movement to Italy means closer to the ME.

 

On 7/30/2020 at 7:22 AM, webfact said:

U.S. troops would reposition to the Black Sea region and some could temporarily deploy in waves to the Baltics. Other forces leaving Germany would permanently move to Italy and the U.S. military's European headquarters would relocate from Stuttgart, Germany, to Belgium.

Moving the headquarters to Belgium makes sense to me because the EU is headquartered there and, yeah, it will irritate Germany.

 

However, as the article said this will be years in the making. It's really just a reaction to Germany's poor participation and Merkel's attitude. Besides, if Mitt Romney is opposing it, it's got to be the right thing to do. ????

 

(These are just indications of what President Trump plans are after the election.) 

[billd766]

16 hours ago, Isaan sailor said:

Ever wonder why the Euro values so much higher than the USD?  Huge US Defense budget—much of it to NATO. BTW the Euro began life in 1999 with parity to the USD.

What perctage of the US defence budget goes towards NATO compared to the rest of the world?

 

This link is for 2019 and it seems to cover the whole of the Defence budget but not broken down so much for individual projects.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States

 

It is very hard to get any sort of figures but this is the best I can get at the moment.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-nato-budget-is-funded-2018-7#:~:text=At present%2C NATO has 29,spending by NATO member states.

[simple1]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

What perctage of the US defence budget goes towards NATO compared to the rest of the world?

 

This link is for 2019 and it seems to cover the whole of the Defence budget but not broken down so much for individual projects.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States

 

It is very hard to get any sort of figures but this is the best I can get at the moment.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-nato-budget-is-funded-2018-7#:~:text=At present%2C NATO has 29,spending by NATO member states.

 

 

Trump's usual M.O., misinforms, currently more than 20k false and misleading statements in the public domain, yet some people, without question, still believe his nonsense.

[LiamB80]

Germany can’t even afford to pay the 2% they agreed upon. Their 2nd biggest contributor to the EU just ditched them. Leaving Germany and France to support the whole bloc. The EU will collapse in 5 years and Russia won’t even have to fire a shot.

[Scott]

As entertaining as memes are, this is a discussion forum.   A post with only a meme has been removed.  

 

[Lormak]

Typical of the Germans to want a free ride. Well bad luck Merkel, the game is up. USA and UK will no longer prop up Germany.  The cracks are now showing throughout the EU. 2021 is going to be a very entertaining year - I'm going to sit back, break out the beer and popcorn and enjoy the show as the EU (literally) goes up in flames....

[FritsSikkink]

On ‎7‎/‎30‎/‎2020 at 10:00 AM, Eric Loh said:

Will Defense Secretary have the grapefruit to tell Trump that Italy and Belgium contribute even less than Germany to NATO's defense spending. 

Get them all back to the USA then. Don't forget those near the oil in the middle east.

Edited August 4, 2020 by FritsSikkink