BBC plunged into 'Rule Britannia' censorship row

[faraday]

7 hours ago, kingdong said:

you sound a barrel of laughs,get invited to many parties?

Don't think he likes Englanders, which is hardly surprising as we defeated them in the World Cup Football.

 

 

 

In 1966.

 

 

????

[Chomper Higgot]

I know it’s a small point but I do think it an important one.

 

Nobody has ‘censured’ Rule Britannia.

 

It’s perhaps worth keeping that in mind.

[Odysseus123]

A fun fact-somewhat related to the topic..

 

HMS Victory spent her entire wartime career as HBMS Victory-His Britannic Majesty's Ship 'Victory'

[Thailand]

12 hours ago, trucking said:

The way things are going , any new national anthem will consist of three verses of humming.

 

Only way the snowflakes will be happy.

Billy Connoly had it right. The theme tune from the Archers should be the national anthem.

 

As for general political corectness, it has gone way past it's sell by date. 

[Thailand]

 

[stouricks]

14 hours ago, colinneil said:

Easy answer... Everybody refuse to pay the license fee, they cant jail millions.

Too true Colin. I shall cancel my Direct Debit immediately.

[Chassa]

Don't need a licence to drive a TV in Australia but TIUK!

[Scott]

Inflammatory post reported and removed.

 

[kingdong]

9 hours ago, Logosone said:

Yes, sure, but you can't fake that fervour. And even if they are drunk it only allows the real impulses to come through more clearly. They believe what Rule Britannia says, they know it was in the past, but they still believe it is true at heart.

you can tell all this from a drunken sing song? wow

[Logosone]

Quote

It is that British presence on the seas that kept the world from coming under the jackboot of tyranny. 

Rule Britannia glorifies the British Navy.

 

The British presence on the seas, however, was a substantial cause of world war one. The British saw Germany building a navy, and in a jealous attempt to guard their privileged access to colonial markets Britain had been plundering for centuries, Britain took the lead in creating the diplomatic constellation which precipitated the first world war. Just as Britain took the lead in turning a small regional conflict into a global conflagration that would kill millions thirty years later, when of course the British navy was barely enough to evacuate the British army from France after a comprehensive butt whipping.

 

Rule Britannia does not glorify freedom. It is a massive and perverse joke for the lyrics of that piece to sing about the British never being slaves. Quite apart from the fact that the British were of course slaves to the Normans, Romans and many others, it was, at the time of publication of Rule Britannia precisely the British who were enslaving the people of the world. They had even set up a royally sanctioned company to trade slaves.

 

The whole premise of Rule Britannia is a perverse hypocrisy and falsehood.

 

The fact that Rule Britannia celebrates and glorifies not just the British navy, but what it caused, the wholesale exploitation of colonial people does leave a bad taste in the mouth for many, when they see the earnest, deep, rapturous intensity with which union-jack clad geriatrics bray the lyrics of a by-gone era.

 

To see some people now try and misrepresent those lyrics as lyrics of diversity, freedom and pancakes is about as credible as claiming the Horst-Wessel Song was about religious harmony. Rule Britannia is about jingoism, glorification of the navy, glorification of war, and about nationalism. That is why football hooligans love to sing it. 

 

Having said that, censorship is a base, low, and cowardly business, if people want to sing Rule Britannia they should be free to do so. But don't dress it up as beautiful, lofty and tasteful. That's just hypocrisy.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Logosone

[Bluespunk]

6 hours ago, torturedsole said:

Why listen?  If I don't like the Netflix film then I turn it off and turn over.  I don't carry any further burden as to what I didn't enjoy about said film.

 

I don’t except on proms.
 

Why is it so hard to understand that some of us can enjoy an event even if some of the language in certain pieces used isn’t to our taste?

Edited August 27, 2020 by Bluespunk

[Rookiescot]

The proms themselves are probably wonderful concerts.

However the last night of the proms is simply an exercise of British nationalism. 

You expect these demonstrations of national pride and exceptionalism from countries like North Korea but from a supposedly mature, open, democratic and diverse country like the UK? 

[TKDfella]

Well, perhaps 'Rule Britannia...' should fade away but not for any political or leftist movement. From a purely practical and factual standpoint Britannia doesn't and can't be seen as 'ruling the waves' anymore.

[CorpusChristie]

6 minutes ago, TKDfella said:

Well, perhaps 'Rule Britannia...' should fade away but not for any political or leftist movement. From a purely practical and factual standpoint Britannia doesn't and can't be seen as 'ruling the waves' anymore.

White Christmas should also be banned, because it does not snow at Christmas these days due to global warming 

Edited August 27, 2020 by CorpusChristie

[TKDfella]

4 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

White Christmas should also be banned, because it does not snow at Christmas these days due to global warming 

Well, if you are talking about the song then it's not the same,' I'm DREAMING of a white Christmas...' I can dream for a white Christmas in Thailand but whether my dream comes true...get the idea?

[CorpusChristie]

4 minutes ago, TKDfella said:

Well, if you are talking about the song then it's not the same,' I'm DREAMING of a white Christmas...' I can dream for a white Christmas in Thailand but whether my dream comes true...get the idea?

I didnt mean it literally .............................I was making a point .

Let me think of another example to make my point...........................

[Proboscis]

15 hours ago, Justgrazing said:

adds evermore to the compelling case for abolishing the quite archaic license fee that keeps this bloated entity of self righteousness and hand wringing on behalf of whoever is next on the feeling aggrieved list afloat .. and is so bloody typical of the spineless jellybacks like Hall who pervade the Org' and are so desperate to do backflips to please the aggrieved .. Top gear used to be a programme the Beeb sold around the world enhancing their reputation and swelling the coffers .. but Hall forsook that in his desperation to please the outraged brigade in getting rid of Clarkson for one of his faux pas .. May and Hammond also left as a result and the Beebs feeble attempts to reignite it's popularity since have failed to achieve the view figures the previous cast had .. and all in the name of political correctness .. 

 

And yet all over the World, whenever there is war or civil unrest and a cacophany of voices preaching lies from one side or another, everyone goes to the one trusted source, the BBC, for the unbiased news.

 

I am not British. I have lived in a number of countries in Africa and Asia, including at times when both government, opposition and other pretender entities are spewing lies over the airways. Everyone, including government officials, opposition members and others tune in to the BBC in whatever way they can.

 

I have always wondered how Brexit supporters seem to decry the BBC when it is truly the one single asset that the UK has that is internationally admired and respected (and has absolutely nothing to do with the EU).

[Logosone]

56 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

The proms themselves are probably wonderful concerts.

However the last night of the proms is simply an exercise of British nationalism. 

You expect these demonstrations of national pride and exceptionalism from countries like North Korea but from a supposedly mature, open, democratic and diverse country like the UK? 

Well exactly. That is precisely why people in Union Jack suits waving flags and singing about Britannia ruling the waves is so jarring and strange. The suit is tongue in cheek, no doubt about it. But the earnest, passionate and emotional rapture when singing about ruling the waves is very real and a bit disturbing.

 

And we do not expect that of Britain. Britain, who has biographers who always seek the truth, which shows what a transparent press and political system should be, one of the countries with the highest ranked universities, the most impressive medical research history and achievements in so many fields of exploration, academia, sport and science.

 

Why on earth would British people have to hark back to a time 300 years ago when it had a navy that stole from defenceless countries to get some national pride? 

 

In essence Rule Britannia glorifies the Empire, but that empire was not just something to be proud of, it was fighting natives with spears using Gatling guns and stealing resources from people. Yes, it also involved achievements but why focus on those to that degree? Why are the British so attached to the empire, the French, Spanish, Italian, Germans are not so attached to their previous empires. It's very strange.

 

 

 

 

[shackleton]

15 hours ago, Susco said:

So now you know why they don't allow Scotland another independence vote, as his suit would be useless

Even more reason for Scotland to get its independence 

[blazes]

9 hours ago, Enoon said:

The Proms are an outstanding series of concerts.

 

The finest music, played by the worlds finest orchestras, led by the worlds finest conductors.

 

8 weeks of excellence, with over 70 concerts.

 

I listen to as many of them as I can.

 

This year no live concerts, but recordings of great performances from past seasons.

 

Tonight, BBC Radio 3, 7.30pm UK time, what many consider to be the finest ever performance, anywhere, of Mahlers 5th symphony.

 

Leonard Bernstein conducting the Vienna Philharmonic in 1987.

 

Preceded by Mozarts Clarinet Concerto in A major.

 

But there is one concert that I never fail to miss........the Last Night.

 

I know several people who have shown apprehension about actually attending other Prom concerts, because of the impression they received from the Last Night.

 

It is in no way representative of the Proms as a whole, and yet it is regarded by many (I suspect a large proportion of whom never watch/listen to any other prom concert) as somehow "what the Proms are all about".

 

It isn't.

 

It wouldn't be missed by most of the people who actually attend, or listen to, the other concerts in the season.

 

It's a grotesque peculiarity, and can be dumped in its entirety as far as I am concerned.

 

 

 

Thank you for that.   Wonderfully well said.   I am sure you have brought back many memories of the "real' Proms for many of us on this thread.

 

(I might disagree about Bernstein for the Mahler 5 however!!)

[vogie]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

The proms themselves are probably wonderful concerts.

However the last night of the proms is simply an exercise of British nationalism. 

You expect these demonstrations of national pride and exceptionalism from countries like North Korea but from a supposedly mature, open, democratic and diverse country like the UK? 

Just think yourself lucky you don't have any flag waving nationalists in Scotland......... Oh wait.

 

"Rule Brittania was first performed in a play about the Vikings invading Britain and not enslaving the British". : Andrew Neil

 

But as for the BBC, it is just another woke nail in their coffin of defunding.

[Logosone]

17 minutes ago, blazes said:

(I might disagree about Bernstein for the Mahler 5 however!!)

As would I.  Claudio Abbado's version with the Lucerne Festival Orchestra is clearly the finest performance of Mahler's 5th.

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

But as for the BBC, it is just another woke nail in their coffin of defunding.

 

For cutting out one song because the crowd that normally sing it will not be present at the concert.

 

 

[transam]

1 hour ago, TKDfella said:

Well, perhaps 'Rule Britannia...' should fade away but not for any political or leftist movement. From a purely practical and factual standpoint Britannia doesn't and can't be seen as 'ruling the waves' anymore.

It's a song that is enjoyed by many, especially at the proms. If lefty's want it taken down then all music will be under the lefty spotlight...........????

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, TKDfella said:

Well, perhaps 'Rule Britannia...' should fade away but not for any political or leftist movement. From a purely practical and factual standpoint Britannia doesn't and can't be seen as 'ruling the waves' anymore.

depends on how far you look,

 

all this fuss in the wake of the BBC action many would consider to be a storm in a glass of water,

 

those waves are suitable for Britannia to rule

 

 

[Rimmer]

Off topic post and reply removed.

[bodga]

17 hours ago, CorpusChristie said:

Black Woman

sexist, has to be at least transgender and identify as a sheep or  hamster gerbil etc free  rights for vegetables..

[Scott Tracy]

My piece.  Have you seen, at the last night, the huge variety of national flags being waved by the Promonaders? You have to qualify for attendance at the last night, by attending a minimum number of other concerts during the Proms. Citizens of many nations attend the concerts, thus, citizens of many nations attend the last night.

 

With regards to rule Brittania, lyrics, written by a Scot, put to music written by an Englishman. British through and through. Land of Hope and Glory, originally orchestral, with lyrics added later.

 

Without the Promonaders, without a choir, how can justice be done to these 2 standards of the season. Let the BBC Concert Orchestra and whatever orchestra and conductor do what they want on the day. No one will ultimately care.

 

Remember, few things matter, and nothing matters that much in the grand scheme of things.

[sawadee1947]

18 hours ago, CorpusChristie said:

.................Just need to add "To the E.U" at the end 

That is since ages your problem with Europe and the last 40 years with EU. You don't know the meaning of being a member of a strong community by distributing knowledge, skills and ideas. 

Instead you used this bloc by cherry picking and tried to exploit an honorable EU. 

Just as you did it in your colonial times in former times. 

You were kicked out of big countries and communities like Kenya or India and everywhere in the world. And now it will happen again. 

Unfortunately you will not learn. 

So stay in your Splendid Isolation until a new generation will decide the future. Ruling is yesterday, participation is now and the future. ????

[Chomper Higgot]

9 minutes ago, Logosone said:

The BLM extremists should never have a right to censor what anyone can hear...

The change in the program of the last night of the Proms has absolutely nothing to do with BLM.